r/politics • u/Particular_Log_3594 • 6d ago
No Paywall Obama: Israel 'took the land' from Palestinians, 'ceded moral ground' in Gaza
https://www.jpost.com/international/article-9118513.5k
u/Rain_43676 6d ago
Looks like the Dems are finally realizing just how hated Israel is.
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u/ReneDiscard Illinois 6d ago
When you think about it it's pretty insane (and overdue) for a former president to finally say this.
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u/lateformyfuneral 6d ago edited 6d ago
In 2011, he caused some upset in Israel when he said, what is also the international community’s position, that Israel has to return to 1967 borders (i.e all settlements and occupation in the West Bank are illegal)
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u/kylebisme 6d ago
He really pissed them off on his way out of office in 2016 when he chose to not veto United Nations Security Council Resolution 2334 condemning Israeli colonization of Palestinian territory.
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u/StunningCloud9184 5d ago
As usual people think dems are bad but find out they were in the right all along.
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u/cptjeff 5d ago
Obama was always pretty sympathetic to the Palestinians but felt constrained by the politics of the issue.
That was not the case with Joe Biden, who was hardline zionist through and through. Obama would have reacted extremely differently to Israel's genocide than Biden did.
Democrats, like other groups, are not one thing. Obama is different than Biden is different than Clinton is different from Carter (who caused a political earthquake in 2006 when he used the word "apartheid" when zero political figures even dared to challenge Israel in even the smallest ways). The individual matters.
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u/ghost_finger 5d ago
I don’t think this was true. Obama didn’t have to deal with an Israel as aggressively genocidal as they became under Biden and Biden did try to get them to chill, he just failed and didn’t push hard enough
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u/Ivence 5d ago
Other presidents in the past had no issue "getting them to chill." You threaten the money and they back off, biden spent his career supporting zionism and he made some lip service to it while making no actual effort.
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u/Cream253Team Washington 5d ago
Tough to threaten the money being sent to Israel when voters keep handing Congress to Republicans every other election.
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u/squeezymarmite Europe 5d ago
Who needs Republicans to support Israel when you have Schumer, Jeffries, Pelosi, and about two dozen other Democrats who act like it's their only job.
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u/zefy_zef 5d ago
Well, also Democrats. AIPAC gives money to both sides of the aisle. Republicans are worse, obviously, but we need to hold our own to account as well.
I think it needs to made incredibly obvious who accepts money from israel so that people can make an informed choice. I know they have to declare it, but they should be made to proclaim it. Maybe them wear fucking nascar jackets.
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u/EvilTables 5d ago
Not really. He was the president, he could have certainly threatened a lot more. Instead he pretty much looked the other way.
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u/RobCoxxy 5d ago
Why are we pretending Biden did anything
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u/TruthHistorical7515 5d ago
He approved weapons export to Israel
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u/RobCoxxy 5d ago
Yep. He did absolutely nothing to dissuade Israel from genocide or war crimes.
Former Israeli ambassador, Michael Herzog, made a startling admission about Biden’s support: “God did the State of Israel a favour that Biden was the president during this period. We fought [in Gaza] for over a year and the administration never came to us and said, ‘ceasefire now.’ It never did. And that’s not to be taken for granted.” His remarks encapsulated a broader sentiment that the White House gave Benjamin Netanyahu all the political space he needed to execute the military offensive, which has claimed the lives of more than 52,000 Palestinians, mainly women and children.
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u/kylebisme 5d ago
Obama was far from right all along, he vetoed a similar resolution in 2011, and merely abstained from the one in 2016 rather than voting in favor of it like everyone else on the Security Council, and just a few months prior to that he pledged 38 billion in weapons to Israel.
And aside from his dealings with Israel, he killed hundreds of civilians with careless drone strikes, sewed [horrible instability in Libya that continues to this day](theintercept.com/drone-papers/the-assassination-complex/), persecuted government whistleblowers, and oversaw the brutal suppression of the Occupy Wall Street protests.
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u/korben2600 Arizona 5d ago
Obama did the exact same thing as Bush with Iraq and Trump with Iran, going for a decapitation strike, deposing and couping and permanently destabilizing Libya for its oil, only he did it quietly and competently so apparently all is forgiven. Just standard fare US imperialism meant to drive profits for Exxon, Chevron, and ConocoPhillips.
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u/Ursa_Solaris 5d ago
Obama is one dem, most dems have been lockstep with Israel until the last couple years.
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u/the_Cheese999 5d ago
Dudes will give Dems credit for doing meaningless stuff on the way out lmao.
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u/StunningCloud9184 5d ago edited 5d ago
Like giving healthcare to millions of people saving lives lol. Forgiving 200 billion in student loans. Saving medicare 100 billion by negotiating with pharma. FUnding the IRS to go after rich people. Giving vets cancer care. Largest infrastructure bill since FDR. Brought manufacturing boom back to america. Went after monopolies.
Or not cutting usaid saving millions of lives.
Whats that you dont care about the 700,000 dead children that would have been prevented by dems?
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u/sir_mrej Washington 5d ago
People dont like small measures and dont like looking things up themselves. Dems need to either do bigger gestures or need to trumpet their tiniest awesome things from the highest peaks.
IIRC Biden did get SOME student loans cancelled. The Edu Sec shouldve done a whirlwind tour claiming success for those people and berating the supreme court for the rest.
Dems are SO bad at advertising themselves.
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u/ColdSteveStoneAustin 5d ago
Is that why you're talking them down instead of talking them up?
The Democrats have a lot to offer if you want it.
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u/Supersilverr 6d ago
Then he won his re-election in 2012. It’s the epstein politicians who carry water for Israel the most. No-drama Obama was above all of that and never beholden to Israel in any way.
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u/blindmikey 5d ago
There's literally an audio recording of Epstein, Ehud Barak and Larry Summers talking about them being unable to influence Obama or those Obama gets councel from. It's crazy.
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u/Tractor_Pete Texas 5d ago
That's quite the overstatement. He only abstained on the UN vote, didn't vote for it like every other civilized nation. And fully supported ongoing aid, military and intel support for Israel.
He only pushed back a little; it's remarkable because no president had since HW told Israel not to get involved in the first gulf war and went from record high approval to a 1 term president.
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u/monocasa 6d ago
This was basically every president's position until Clinton.
Carter literally wrote a book titled Palestine: Peace Not Apartheidm
And an extremely rare Reagan win had him calling Israel an expansionist regime and suspending arms deals and military cooperation when they started formally annexing the golan heights.
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u/GrumpyCloud93 5d ago
Didn't George H W Bush tell Israel they weren't getting any help from the US? I recall something where he said "they know my phone number when they figure it out..."
The trouble is, every government said "don't do it" and every government basically ignored that the Israelis were expanding into the West Bank. The longer you put stuff off, the harder it is to actually do something about it.
Apologists will say "Israel offered them 96% of their land back". No they didn't. They offered swiss cheese control spots inside an occupied territory. Then the apologists complain "they didn't want to settle, they wanted to keep fighting." They just wanted the pre-67 borders back, and no IOF oppression. They were never offered that. In fact, Netanyahu allowed money to flow to Hamas to ensure the PLA was weakened.
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u/ImOnlyHereForTheCoC Florida 5d ago
The fact that even Ronald Reagan could land on the right side of the Golan Heights issue, and yet you still had ostensibly pro-Palestinian folks deciding “even though Donald Trump made ‘GH belongs to Israel’ official U.S. policy in his first term, I see no appreciable difference between him and Kamala” is fucking insane to me.
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u/GrumpyCloud93 5d ago
When 20% of Michigan primary voters picked "none of the above" it was probably a bad idea to expect them to vote Democrat just because "the other guy is worse". I'm glad the dems are figuring this out now.
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u/SapientTrashFire 5d ago edited 5d ago
Always always boils down to this ridiculous misleading argument: that people voted for Trump based on Palestine and thought Trump and kamala were the same. The people who were worried about Palestine did not vote for Trump, they just didn't vote, and for good reason. If your choices as a Palestinian American are a person who is currently supporting the Israeli war on your province with absolutely no commitment to walk it back, or an insane fascist who will also support Israel's war on your province, you don't have a "lesser evil" choice. You have no choice. They didn't vote.
This is the tactic over and over again by centrist dems: "it's crazy that people thought OUR war monger was the same as THEIR war monger! They must have voted for that war monger and fucked us!"
Look. I can accept that Kamala Harris would be broadly better than Trump in the same way that I can accept that a sickness wiping out a huge portion of the population is better than the planet getting hit by an asteroid. AND ALSO you should be able to accept that this is a pretty awful choice. Kamala Harris was a fucking horrible choice for Palestine, and this would not have motivated Palestinians to vote for her, losing her a significant portion of the vote. This does not mean these people voted for Trump directly or even by proxy. This means these people were put in a fucking impossible situation. The dems VERY often do this and then blame those people for not voting.
It's extremely unfair and absurd. If they want people to keep voting for "good but not perfect," then good needs to be defined as something other than fully ass-fucking us marginally less than the guy with the thumbtack covered dildo.
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u/barryvm Europe 5d ago
It's really weird to watch people blame non voters from abroad.
Personally, I think most people who don't vote where I live are irresponsible and are shirking their duty. But where I live you have at least five or six choices across the entire political spectrum to choose from. The same reasoning doesn't hold up regarding those who have only two choices that then, for life-or-death issues they feel strongly about, turn out to be two bad choices.
If politicians see fit to artificially limit choice then that also reduces the legitimacy of the electoral process and thereby reduces the responsibility of the voters to engage with it. Conversely, when entrenched political parties take more control over the scope of the political debate, then they are more responsible for selling the options they do offer to the electorate. This becomes even more acute when it's an issue with a very clear moral high ground that somehow both fail to take.
I get the argument that it is in a way accelerationist and self-defeating, but I can understand why people could decide that they won't vote for either of them.
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u/Tandy2000 5d ago
They literally named the Golan Heights after Trump. The promise to do that is all it takes when you are dealing with a narcissist like him.
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u/emptyingthecup 5d ago edited 5d ago
It means nothing, and I would argue, it's dangerous because you don't want to give value to snakes who don't think twice about stabbing you in the back. These people are reprehensible, when they have the position to make a positive difference, they simply put all efforts into vomiting out word salads with the full array of corporate political buzzwords that waste your time as they say very little other than making excuses for why they are supporting genocide and why need to send another 20 billion dollars to Israel.
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u/creeping_chill_44 Texas 5d ago
and/or how little Bibi respects or cares for the democrats, or indeed the united states as a whole
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u/Vivid_Anyth4 5d ago
With an ally like isreal we don't need any enemies. They have that covered
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u/Moralio 5d ago
Good thing Obama didin't post this in worldnews, else he would be permabanned.
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u/yoyopoplo 5d ago
I got banned for saying the ICC and UN are different organisations. Literally that's all I said. This was in the context of someone complaining the UN was after Netanyahu .
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u/Constant_Section1491 5d ago
I got banned for saying "Israeli bots". Just literally 2 words. fcuk em, fcuk netenyahu.
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u/CrankyVince2 5d ago
That place is fucking insane.
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u/LoveMeSomeBerserk 5d ago
If you’re not permanently banned from worldnews by now then you support Israel lol.
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u/Nothos927 5d ago
Got banned from there for calling out people denying the Gaza genocide despite the sub’s supposed don’t deny genocide rule
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u/bobalazs69 5d ago
I only mentioned the name of a jew rabbi and quoted, and got banned many years ago. Glad nothing changed.
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u/Personal_Track_3780 5d ago
Banned for saying there were neolithic tribes in that area in the distant past.
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u/EphemeralSilliness94 5d ago
A jew rabbi as opposed to all those rabbis of different denominations?
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u/CurmudgeonLife United Kingdom 5d ago
That sub is the worst just pro Russian and Israeli propaganda.
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u/Hinohellono 5d ago
Getting banned from worldnews is like a badge of honor. Proof you are a person bingo. Proof you aren't a Russia/MAGA/Israel shill double bingo
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u/Think-Explanation-75 6d ago edited 5d ago
Only those with a bias will sit here and ignore how many times Obama stood up to Israel during his tenure
https://westerman.house.gov/media-center/blog-post/obama-has-undermined-us-relationship-israel
https://imeu.org/resources/key-issues/ten-egregious-israeli-snubs-of-the-obama-administration/243
I can keep going, but quite frankly, you guys either weren't paying attention because you were still in your anarchist phase or were just oblivious.
Edit: since y’all are too dense to do any more research for yourself here’s a full frontline documentary going over the relationship. Maybe this might be a good enough source for you. Why you couldn’t find this for yourself I will never know
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/documentary/netanyahu-at-war/
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u/Atroxa 6d ago
Or likely too young to remember Obama's presidency.
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u/NaughtyCheffie I voted 5d ago
WTF are you talking about? Obama's Presidency was like 10....years...ago.. Oh well shit. Carry on. weeps quietly
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u/PuppiesAndPixels 5d ago
His presidency ENDED 10 years ago. So 26 year olds today may have been paying attention to national politics, but probably not many of them. To really remember his presidency you really need to be in your mid 30's now because his presidency started 18 years ago.
the more you know
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u/Mannekin-Skywalker 5d ago
Correction, it ended 10 years ago. Most people entering college today wouldn’t have many memories of the Obama presidency.
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u/Kratos-sama 6d ago
What's the deal with so many of you Americans criticizing Obama over Israel. Is it simply a case of people having been too young to remember his presidency? Hell, even Obama's own party didn't support his position on Israel. What the hell did y'all expect him to do anyway? I commend Think-Explanation-75 for being sensible.
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u/GrumpyCloud93 5d ago
The trouble is - what did he do, besides the typical Democrat "strongly worded letter"? Israel still got military support, settled in Palestine unimpeded, and regularly "mowed the grass" (And couldn't figure out why they got attacked by Gaza)
I would have expected US reaction to be a little more forceful. Plus, Obama wimped out on the Syrian gas attack "red line" and did not enough to contain Russia when it took Crimea.
Domestically, Obama was an excellent president.
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u/defaulticus 5d ago
Re: Syria - this irritated me too but I'm 99% certain he thought we'd get sucked into another middle eastern forever war if he did anything and he was dead set against that.
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u/r4b1d0tt3r 5d ago
A politician has a certain amount of capital to spend and Obama chose not to expend much on restricting Israel. You can agree or disagree with where he chose to spend that capital. Personally I think in 2009-2016 cutting off Israel would have been ruinously expensive for the administration in the context of the political support in not just the GOP but the Democrats establishment and let's be clear, voters. This is the midlife of the war on terror after all and Israel was seen as the oracle on suppressing Islamic terrorism. I think for all that expenditure the fundamentals of the conflict would not change meaningfully.
What Obama did then or does now think about the justice of the situation my memory can't parse the history well enough to say, but as with any president other than Trump who just acts on wherever idiot idea pops into his head I imagine Obama's calculations were rather sophisticated. This is the type of trade off in that could have killed the aca for example.
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u/No-Distance-9401 5d ago
Tbf, back then I'd bet it was easily 90% of Congress taking Israeli money and being pro-Israel as people, especially the media, wouldn't report the horrors the Israelis did to Palestinians. It was also a different media landscape with less social media and not having that actual unadulterated news pushed by so many different sources.
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u/Enterprise-DeezNuts 5d ago edited 5d ago
I like how your sources are a pro-Israel org and a Republican congressman lol Zionists cry about every imagined slight. And I shouldn't have to point out how ridiculous it is that you cited a Republican politician
Obama opposed Palestinian membership in the UN, opposed their bid for non-member observer status, blocked efforts to pursue ICC charges against Israel officials, abstained from voting on settlement expansion in the UN and continued to send weapons and aid to Israel while they expanded the settlements. You literally cannot be categorized as standing up to Israel when you send them military aid while they illegally expand their settlements and you vote in their favor in the UN
This is him trying to glom onto the popularity of the Palestinian liberation movement growing in the Democratic Party and continue to cover for Israel by pretending that they EVER had any moral ground as a genocidal ethnostate existing on stolen land
Edit: Jesus Christ and then he cites a random documentary about the US and Israel as some sort of definitive proof about Obama specifically. Bro is citing stuff like a broken LLM
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u/LaLa1234imunoriginal 5d ago
Shh you can't show up with facts like this when people are glazing Obama. They might call you a dirty leftist and blame you for Trump being elected.
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u/Zero_Waist 5d ago
He lost some supporters when he spoke at AIPAC during his campaign.
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u/Annoying_cat_22 5d ago
Is a parent "standing up" to their kids when they ground them?
What an ignorant framing. Israel is a proxy of the US, heavily dependent on it for diplomatic and military protection. Obama had the power to force a 2 state solution and chose not to do it. Talking 10 years too late doesn't help anyone and doesn't absolves him from his support that lead to the Gaza genocide.
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u/No_Pizza_9831 5d ago
You know that attempting to make a point about how one sided/extreme an opinion is while simultaneously throwing out insults like "anarchist phase" to unfairly degrade a point that otherwise has merit just proves you're the same thing you're criticizing right?
Both sides have valid points. You are correct he did stand up to Israel at times, but he also heavily armed Israel and actively worked against Palestine, while simultaneously bombing the middle east (including to "defend Israel") with drones and bombs more than any president in recent history (including Trump). He may have stood up to Israel sometimes, but his policies disproportionately supported Israel (as all US presidents do) and are directly responsible for the events we see in that region of the world today. To argue otherwise just proves you are as ignorant as those you criticize, especially when you accuse others of not "paying attention" while ignoring all of the other evidence yourself.
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u/walkallover1991 District Of Columbia 6d ago
I'm sorry but statements like this give me "one day everyone will have been against this" vibes.
As President, Obama opposed Palestine's bid for full UN member status and then later also opposed their bid to non-member observer state status. His administration also worked to block Palestinian efforts to pursue charges against Israel at the ICC.
He continued doing the Democrat song and dance regarding settlement expansion, but expansion continued throughout his Presidency. The U.S. abstained from a UNSC vote on settlement expansion.
You can't be against settlement expansion while simultaneously sending military aid to Israel, protecting Israel on the international arena, and not sanctioning high-ranking Israeli leaders.
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u/Actor412 Washington 5d ago
That's what Obama always was, a politician who was willing to work within the framework of the establishment. The establishment in the US has always been keeping Israel happy. He's never been one to 'go his own way,' or find ways around precedent to force through innovation or reform. He knew how to play the game by the rules, and he was very good at it. That allowed him to become president, but it also meant that he could be outmaneuvered by the Rs who simply stopped obeying the rules.
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u/Engrish_Major 6d ago
Cool. And we should want people to change for the better. The best accountability is changed behavior.
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u/sxp101 5d ago
Its easy to change when there's no accountability. He was in a position Of power and able to do something about the stuff he's talking about it's not like all this stuff is new. it was going on then just as it's going on now. It's just now he doesn't have to worry about donors and campaigns. and so feels free to talk.
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u/saera-targaryen 5d ago
Accountability is taking responsibility for your past actions, not just ignoring them and moving on. It would be accountability if he said "after having learned more, I regret my actions in support of Israel when I was president and want a free palestine"
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u/n16r4 5d ago
Oh so did Obama come out and say: "I made horrible mistakes on the issue of Palestine, please put your support behind the people who've been calling this shit out for decades, here are some people who vehemently opposed me back then please give them your support".
No because he doesn't think it was a mistake, he has not changed his behavior, his role right now is opposition, that's why he critizises the behavior now. This is not accountability, this is ass covering at best at worst a cynical attempt to direct anger over Palestine predominantly at "political opponents", aka Israel never did this when Obama was in charge blablabla.
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u/Engrish_Major 5d ago
Valid anger. I share the same. I just don’t know how one can be better without allowing better.
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u/SapientTrashFire 5d ago
- Literally apologizing
- Putting his money where his mouth is
- Funding and supporting candidates and organizations helping Palestine
- Just actually going there because he's a former president
Like he can do so so many things, but because he said the words then he "did" the good deed so now he can be king of democrats again and everything is cool.
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u/evilgigglefish I voted 6d ago
we should also want people who genuinely believe in what's right, not conveniently changing their beliefs as soon as american public opinion changes.
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u/Pantarus 5d ago
Wait what?
That's literally the whole point of elected government...the will of the people, or at least in theory the majority.
If the public want it one way...it's literally supposed to be the job of an elected official to listen to us.
Yes there has always been opposition. But it's only recently that it's become what I would say closer to the majority and readable as such.
As public opinion changes...I WANT my leader to consider and change if needed.
The flip side of that shit is a tyrant and you just HOPE they change their minds when public opinion shifts...a la Trump.
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u/theREALbombedrumbum 6d ago
I'm with you on holding people accountable in recognition of them being late to the party, but I worry that messaging like yours will do more closing of doors than opening. When we're trying so hard for more politicians to do the bare minimum why waste energy going after the ones who are starting to take their first steps? If anything we're showing the prominent figures who are on the fence that they'll get criticized for not having done it sooner
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u/PlsNoOlives 5d ago
Accountability is acutely necessary. Obama isnt ignorant or uninitiated, and these little too late concessions are classic and predicted. Liberalism is against every war but the current war, and happy to mourn the victims of their own aggression, but take no steps to prevent their deaths. Israel calls it "shoot and cry" and they explicitly sanction it. Obama led the worst drone campaigns in our history but somehow maintains a legacy as a peaceful president, and he's barely said a peep in 3 years of extermination-stage genocide in Gaza. We need to stop worrying about the optics and the messaging and lock in or all this incremental-ism is just enabling the fascism to keep setting charges.
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u/unclemilty420 6d ago
But Obama was never an Israel hawk. In fact, he had a frosty relationship with Netanyahu because he wasn't committed to unconditional support for Israel. His actions while in office were the result an insanely difficult tightrope he had to walk given previous American commitments and the existing consensus in the state department and on Capitol Hill that wouldn't change even if he had used his bully pulpit. Moreover, these comments are with respect to an event that occurred over six years after he was out of office.
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u/porgy_tirebiter 6d ago
Obama changed his mind on gay rights and same sex marriage, in large part because of Biden. I’m okay with people changing their mind. I’m okay with people being open minded enough to give serious considerations to counter arguments.
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u/Engrish_Major 6d ago
Is there any other first action than contrition when one has made a mistake? Like, how are people supposed to grow if you don’t let them? I struggle with this too but ultimately it’s not about my ego — it’s about theirs.
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u/ObiWanChronobi 6d ago
Saying sorry or taking accountability for one’s actions that contributed to the problem are a great place to start.
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u/Zealousideal-Map9327 6d ago
That's not fair to Obama.
Nor is it even accurate.
Obama is risking his political capital by giving this statement.
Despite what internet echochambers would have you believe, Israel is not unpopular enough to be criticized without losing a chunk of your main moderate base.
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u/beornn2 Texas 6d ago
I agree with what you are saying, but I’m curious; what does he care about political capital at this point? He’s never going to hold another public office, and I’m not sure how much pull he has campaigning for others. I simply think he wants to be on the right side of history at this point.
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u/GrumpyCloud93 5d ago
He cares precisely for what he's doing now. He may not personally run for office, but his support and backing helps others, as long as people respect him. I note George W has been silent on much of what's going on with his party, speaking of respect from party...
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u/evilgigglefish I voted 6d ago
in 2021, 58% of americans supported israelis and 25% supported palestinians. in 2026, 36% support israelis and 41% support palestinians. make whatever conclusion you want with those numbers, but it's very easy to spot a shift in public opinion.
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u/ObiWanChronobi 6d ago
Only 1/3 of Americans have a positive view of the Israeli government.
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u/spookynutz 5d ago
That isn't actionable information. Only 1/3 of Americans have a positive view of their own congress.
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u/halt-l-am-reptar 5d ago
“Only” as if a third isn’t an incredibly sizable chunk of the population. Especially when elections are usually incredibly close. Also it sure as shit wasn’t only 1/3 when he was in office.
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u/Adventurous_Salt 6d ago
Obama is risking his political capital by giving this statement.
What risk, he's retired. Will this risk his chances at making crappy Netflix documentaries or something?
Also, "political capital" isn't a think, it only exists so dems can "save" it by not doing anything useful.
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u/naynaythewonderhorse 5d ago
You create an impossible situation where no politician is allowed to change under those circumstances. This country is literally never going to heal if we don’t start accepting people who own up to their mistakes.
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u/syzygyly 5d ago
What you're proposing require people believe in what's right the first time, every time. It is simply not feasible
I'm not saying Obama wasn't informed when it comes to this topic, but consier the larger nature of the criteria you're proposing
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u/ThinkRegret7695 5d ago
It is incredible that so-called ''progressives'' from America do not see Obama as a war criminal and believe this change is genuine is insane, just ask anyone in the global south, especially Palestinians, whether they believe Obama is on their side now.
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u/playitoff 6d ago
That's not accountability, that's worming your way out of it and leaving the damage done. Which does nothing to discourage any politician from doing the same in the future.
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u/DangerousCyclone 6d ago edited 6d ago
He was far from one of the most Pro Israel Presidents though, and he did pressure Bibi immediately to cease building settlements and succeeded for a time. I think the issue is similar to how he handled Russia; he was too passive as they stepped up their incursions and violations against the peace. The settler project kicked into high gear under him and by the time he left we had an escalating situation that led to the pre 10/7 status quo.
Politically , had he done more he would've faced far more opposition among his own party and the Republicans. AIPACs stranglehold was very strong at the time.
That said I hate this sentiment. Yeah he didn't have a good record before, but it is huge that he's saying something now.
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u/DMercenary 6d ago edited 5d ago
Its purity politics. "Oh you didn't have a perfect stance on this? Fuck off and never ever darken our door again."
edit: lmao qed the replies. ITT is malding and seething that Obama finally made a statement against Israel. Instead of actually going "great!" Its "Ugh finally he still sucks though." No wonder none of you ever fucking win anything. As soon as one puts a toe out of line its "THEY SUCK FOREVER AND I WILL NEVER SUPPORT THEM!"
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u/n16r4 5d ago
No it's if you have any decency you say sorry acknowledge your mistake and put your effort behind people who are actually right on the issue because obviously you have no fucking idea.
You don't go out and do a mixture of ass-covering and finger-wagging, I mean ffs he talks about Israel ceding moral ground, what moral ground they've been a settler state from the start. He is trying to safe the Israeli project from selfdestruction.
It's the exact opposite of purity politics because Obama is trying to leech of the pro-palestine sentiment, he isn't trying to join he is barring the entry for others.
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u/kylebisme 5d ago
he did pressure Bibi immediately to cease building settlements and succeeded for a time.
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u/DamienRyan 6d ago
This is exactly the kind of infighting that makes the left so ineffective.
Yes, Obama is very late to the party. Yes you can accuse him of political cowardice. Yes, he was well versed in the sins of the Israeli state leading up to his election in 2008 and did almost nothing for the Palestinians while in power, all these things are true.
He is also a powerful political ally that is moving into the anti Israel tent and everything possible should be done to encourage him to move in further. This is what the right understands and does so well. They ignore these inconsistencies and grievances in pursuit of a larger goal.
If Obama helps bring the end of Israeli occupation and apartheid .1% closer than I welcome him with open arms. I am willing to ignore his opportunistic nature in pursuit of a greater good. We can save the criticism for the history books.
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u/xvrqt 5d ago
I think if you're president of the united states we can hold you directly accountable for your policies - like be fr
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u/-nukethemoon 5d ago
Sure but it’s also been a whole ass decade. Maybe we can also grant that people can change their minds in that stretch of time.
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u/buppiejc 6d ago
The only reason why he's even bending on this is because the left flank has never stopped talking about it, and demanding more, and started primary centrists. What other strategy would have worked?
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u/Wb9VBScxu2uZJHeq2E3W 5d ago
That's fine with me. Keep on talking about it. Keep on demanding more. Keep on primarying centrists.
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u/No_Pizza_9831 5d ago edited 5d ago
Well I doubt you can say that the "left is ineffective" given that it is the political left that is the reason we are having this conversation on Israel's actions in the first place (and I say that as someone who isn't as left like most people on Reddit, and the left deserve credit). Also, you are being disingenuous when you suggest that all he did was "nothing for Palestine". Respectfully, while there are difficulties with the US Presidency that all Presidents endure (which generally result in them towing the pro-Israel line) his actions directly contributed to the problems in that region of the world today. He didn't just work against Palestine, he actively armed Israel massively and engaged in a ridiculous middle eastern bombing campaign (including to "defend Israel") where he bombed the middle east with drones and bombs more so than even Trump has. Most importantly, despite the US Government's official stance being that they do not recognize Israel's expanded settlement territories, he not only actively allowed the expansion to happen, he armed Israel to produce the conditions in which it could happen.
Finally your position regarding what the right does so well is problematic. You're effectively suggesting that we sweep everything under the rug for the purposes of "pursuing a larger goal". Referring to the brutal murder of civilians by a country armed by this President as "inconsistencies and grievances" is quite a ridiculous statement. Your statement is extremely shortsighted, and ironically only makes sense within the context of your own ideological position as what you view as "inconsistencies and grievances" are a fundamental part of a larger problematic system. For other people, the "larger goal" is to ensure that the policies, and individuals behind those policies, who created the conditions in the first place to allow these things to happen are held accountable. Otherwise, the only "larger goal" that is served is one that maintains the same status quo that causes the problems in the first place.
Yes, people should not over criticize Obama as the pressures of the US Presidency will always require Presidents to take unfortunate positions, and this is especially the case with Israel (due to the USA's geopolitical interests). However, it is equally ridiculous to degrade a substantial world problem caused partly by this man's actions to "inconsistencies and grievances" and to suggest that his actions should just be glossed over. Presidents must make hard decisions, but it is equally true that any future President cannot repeat the same mistakes that Obama made.
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u/oh_the_humanities 6d ago
He’s literally not doing anything like you’re proposing. He is virtue signalling to a base that he’s now realising his party is losing. But he is still fully in support of Israel
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u/walkallover1991 District Of Columbia 6d ago
I don't think holding powerful political figures accountable for their records constitutes "infighting," nor do I think welcoming someone into a movement requires suspending criticism of their past actions.
I'm perfectly happy to see Obama adopt a more critical position toward Israel. But there's an enormous difference between expressing sympathy for Palestinians when you're no longer in office and actually using the considerable power of the presidency to challenge the policies that perpetuate their dispossession.
He had eight years to do that. His administration continued providing Israel with billions in military assistance, opposed Palestinian diplomatic initiatives, and largely protected Israel from international accountability, even as settlement expansion continued.
I also disagree with the idea that the right succeeds simply because it overlooks ideological inconsistencies. Conservative movements have frequently demonstrated their willingness to exert enormous pressure on their own political leaders to secure actual policy concessions.
I also find the timing rather interesting, given that we're less than three weeks away from the midterms. I'm not suggesting he can't have genuinely evolved on this issue, but I think it's perfectly reasonable to question why these statements are coming now, particularly when Democrats have spent years alienating voters over their support for Israel.
I'm not arguing that Obama should be excluded from the conversation. I'm arguing that rhetorical evolution shouldn't automatically confer moral or political absolution, particularly when the person in question helped sustain the very conditions they're now criticizing.
We can welcome a change in position while still demanding accountability - those things aren't mutually exclusive.
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u/adultishiguess 6d ago
Obama was also originally against gay marriage. times change. positions change. At least they do for intellectual people. Allow space for allies or continue demanding penance until you're looking at many tiny fragmented groups
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u/Nop277 5d ago
My understanding is he was not against it but wasn't backing it's full legalization due to the political capitol that would cost. If I recall actually him coming out as officially in support of it's legalization was because Biden in what was widely considered a "gaff" at the time stated that the administration was for it in an interview which kind of pushes their hand at the time.
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u/mikecws91 Illinois 5d ago
No one here understands nuance well enough to grasp the concept of political capital. You’re either morally upstanding or a cowardly snake who follows the wind.
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u/Berdsherman 6d ago
Accountability is awesome. But one of the most influential politicians that is not currently in office just agreed on a serious issue with us. I’m taking it.
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u/phishxiii 6d ago
Nah he's right, it's never enough with people like you. So tiring.
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u/Enterprise-DeezNuts 5d ago edited 5d ago
"it's never enough" and the "it" in question is just a statement that says nothing more than "yeah Israel is doing some bad stuff now". He has done nothing to materially help the Palestinian cause. This is literally what virtue signalling used to mean before the right stole it: saying you support a cause without actually doing anything material to support it or aligning your actions with support for the cause
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u/oh_the_humanities 6d ago
He’s offering the most milquetoast criticism. All he’s saying is that maybe Israel went too far. This is in no way supporting Palestine
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u/gornzilla 5d ago
You mean to say the Nobel Peace Prize winner who bombed and killed another Nobel Peace Prize winner could do something like that?
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u/Shabadu_tu 6d ago
This kind of attitude is the exact reason Trump is in the Oval Office planning to turn Gaza into a casino.
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u/ManiaGamine American Expat 6d ago edited 5d ago
People really need to understand that a President is normally supposed to align with the positions and policies of the country itself, which is to put it simply. Pro-Israel. That's simply the American position. No matter what a President's personal views are, the overall position of America is that Israel is an ally.
A President (at least a Democratic one) can't go against that. If you want the position on Israel to change you need to swap out the Congressional politicians, not the President.
In other words, we decry Trump for doing outrageous things that no President should be doing... yet fault Obama for not doing that.
Edit: Also, I am not saying that America should support Israel or that I would (I absolutely don't, they're practically Nazis at this point) just that the American official position is that they are an ally, if not the closest ally America has. It shouldn't be but it is.
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u/Accomplished-Limit-5 5d ago
Oh wow, now Obama is a pretty good way to tell how the wind is blowing, I'm remembering his shift on gay marriage.
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u/MajorDrain 5d ago
President Barack Obama had the constitutional and executive authority to unilaterally recognize the State of Palestine during his presidency
The next US President will as well.
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u/liquifiedtubaplayer 6d ago
He's in line with international law, which requires full eviction of WB and criminal charges for Gaza.
However, it doesn't say Israel needs to dismantle their state.
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u/scelerat 6d ago
A report from The Irish Times noted that Obama did introduce nuance into the conversation, saying that the millions of Jews and Palestinians in the region "aren't going anywhere."
"The citizenry of Israel has to rethink, to reimagine, how your children and grandchildren are going to live in this region. Are you just going to be behind walls and wipe out everybody around you, or are you going to find some just way of defending yourself while still acting in an ethical, moral way?" the former president said.
The Palestinians, he said, have to understand that they will not "outkill" or "outweaponize the Israelis...We have to look to other examples of how change comes about," he said, pointing toward "nonviolent strategies."
"That's going to take some time," the former president acknowledged.
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u/levelonegnomebankalt 6d ago
No one with an unrotted brain thinks Israel should dismantle their state. Lmao what a fucking statement.
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u/liquifiedtubaplayer 5d ago
Go say 2-state solution in any progressive community. In fact if I said it here my comment would've been buried
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u/w633 6d ago
I don't understand why people criticize him for it, yes he could have been more firm and maybe take more actions, but remember, he is the first black president and every action or saying of his is under tight scrutiny by Republicans. They do whatever they can to make him fail. Also, pretty much the first 6 years of his tenure he was dealing with financial crisis and it's fall out, and at the same time Arab spring came along, then there is civil war in syria,the death of gaddafi, that led to ISIS, Obama wasn't dealt a good hand at all.
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u/LOUDPACK_MASTERCHEF 5d ago
You mention civil war in Syria and the death of Gaddafi as if he didn't play a large role in both of those happening in the first place
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u/stereofailure 5d ago
"Well, well, well if it isn't Obama's old nemesis: the consequences of Obama's actions."
Yeah it's funny as hell describing Gaddafi's death as jus part of "a hand he was dealt".
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u/LOUDPACK_MASTERCHEF 5d ago
Poor little Obama, he was just a smol guy and now all these mean people are mad at him 🥺
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u/nefaeriest 5d ago
& i remember after his inauguration- he did not have democrats willing to fight with him - they abandoned him to win their elections instead of uniting -
republicans may. be fascists but they unify like .... cancer cells11
u/marvology 5d ago
Yep, why I can't stand when people faun all over Obama now. He spent his whole 1st term being dogged by accusations that he wasn't even really an American citizen. Democrats in Congress all ran screaming from Obamacare after they voted for it. People forget that he got about 2 years with his Congressional majority and Americans rewarded him with a historical landslide power shift to the Republican party.
All because he didn't clean up their mess fast enough.
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u/Kenan_as_SteveHarvey 5d ago
Yep. People forget he had to win over Dems too. One of the only people to have his back the whole time was Biden.
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u/JessieJ577 5d ago
This is the main reason Biden was picked as VP. Obama needed someone savvy on the executive branch and as Biden showed in his days as VP and President he can work the senate.
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u/Chef_Papafrita American Expat 5d ago
It's definitely past time for chemo and radiation therapy, the gop has metastasized.
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u/Prestigious-Bet8097 5d ago
Tan suit. Do you remember that debacle?
And the "terrorist fist jab."
Far beyond "tight scrutiny" !
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u/Xezshibole California 5d ago edited 5d ago
He was the firmest a sitting President has been since Eisenhower.
His public criticism of Israeli escalation back in 2014 limited that conflict to weeks. Meanwhile Biden offered "uncritical support" and lost the Democrats an election as Israel escalated it into over a year long regional conflict.
Without US the diplomatic umbrella Israel would very quickly run into sanctions from other countries that'd ruin its economy and military. Israel for instance imports 99% of its oil necessary to even stay in the 20th century economies and militaries.
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u/Minute_Fault_6184 5d ago
Obama sicced his state department on the UN when they released their report on Cast Lead. He actively worked to provide diplomatic cover for Israel and discredit organizations that brought attention to Palestinian suffering. I don't know if I can call that firm.
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u/KRandMG 5d ago
Obama was firmer on Israel than just about any president we’ve had.
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u/HolyMoleyGuacamoly 6d ago
i give obama a lot of grief, but it is super helpful political coverage for him to be saying this. could always use more, and more forceful language, but it helps politicians on the left when a pretty centrist party leader like obama says this.
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u/texans1234 5d ago
Also could have had this position a decade ago when he could have done something about it.
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u/Gankdatnoob 5d ago
I do love when politicians finally say something everyone on the planet has known for decades and were called antisemites if they dare say it.
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u/Morgn_Ladimore 5d ago
But only once they are out of office, so their change of stance doesn't affect them anymore.
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u/oo10inz 6d ago
i’m confused is no one familiar with history before the 21st century? Israel was created by the allies after WWII. They have taken some liberties since then but let’s not act like they have done this single handily. It was a conciliation prize for being genocided.
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u/Beneneb 5d ago
i’m confused is no one familiar with history before the 21st century? Israel was created by the allies after WWII.
No offense, but it doesn't seem you're familiar with the history. Israel got legitimate backing all the way back in 1917 when the UK, who occupied the territory, promised to create a Jewish homeland there. This mandate is what allowed for large scale Jewish migration, which is how Israel was able to establish itself.
Even after the WWII, Israel was certainly not created by the allies. They did support the partition plan, but when that failed, it was the war between the Jews and the Arabs which lead to Israel's creation.
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u/gojo96 6d ago
Yep not to mention the several invasions and wars NOT started by Israel. Ask yourself why in 1967 Israel occupied the Gaza Strip.
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u/elihu 6d ago
The Palestinians, he said, have to understand that they will not "outkill" or "outweaponize the Israelis...We have to look to other examples of how change comes about," he said, pointing toward "nonviolent strategies."
"That's going to take some time," the former president acknowledged.
I'm all for non-violent resistance, but this is a pretty out-of-touch thing to say. Israel is doing what they do because the US supports them. Palestinians can't change that.
As president, Obama actively discouraged Palestinians from taking their case for statehood to the UN and their case against Israel for war crimes to the ICC, actively denying them a peaceful means of improving their situation.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-15014037
https://www.timesofisrael.com/obama-reassures-netanyahu-on-iran-icc/
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u/Tiaan 6d ago
I think he's just saying that it's not realistic to have the goal of "destroying Israel" and that peace takes two sides.
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u/Throwaway5432154322 California 6d ago
Don’t think this comment’s going to be well-received, even though I agree with you 100%
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u/Zealousideal-Film982 6d ago edited 6d ago
Yeah I mean. Let’s hold both sides to the same standard. If Netanyahu’s gov = Israel, then Hamas = Palestine. In this fair view, Palestine absolutely attempted a genocide.
Peace takes two sides. Before 10/7, Israel had not occupied Gaza for almost two decades. If Palestine had not invaded Israel and killed 1,200 innocent people in one day, this war would not have happened.
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u/stereofailure 5d ago
Every line of this is false. Gaza has never stopped being under Israeli occupation since 1967. Hamas cannot "invade" a land they have the legal right to under international law. 10/7 was in no way an attempted genocide, was not directly targeting civilians, and had a better ratio of armed combatants to civilian killed than any Israeli action before or since.
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u/onepareil New York 6d ago
Before October 7th, 2023 was already the deadliest year for Palestinians in the West Bank in 20 years. How long are the Palestinians expected to wait quietly for the international community to do something about the illegal occupation of their land? Israel has never been held to account for that, so if we’re going to be “fair,” let’s start there.
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u/TerrorKingA 6d ago
Palestinians also tried peaceful protests multiple times and got rewarded with brutal Israeli violence that resulted in maiming and deaths.
In the West Bank, they don’t even fight back because they know Settler reprisal will be backed by the IDF, and result in even greater catastrophe.
This “both sides” nonsense obfuscates the reality. It is entirely in Israel’s hands to stop the violence.
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u/currogator 5d ago
Netanyahu literally accused PA leader Mahmoud Abbas of “diplomatic terrorism” for asking the UN to mediate between the PA and Israel. The PA (which nominally governs the West Bank) is controlled by Fatah, which opposes Hamas.
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u/Financial-Painter689 Europe 5d ago
Everybody should watch the Gaza Fights for Freedom documentary to see how Israel handles Gaza peaceful protests
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u/TheIdSavant 5d ago
"One day, when it's safe, when there's no personal downside to calling a thing what it is, when it's too late to hold anyone accountable, everyone will have always been against this." - Omar El Akkad
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u/mirrors69 5d ago
I’m never a fan of any politician, but you have to admit that some speak the truth once in a while.
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u/troyandabedinabed Washington 5d ago
Obama's ability to say nothing beautifully is truly unmatched.
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u/NonIdentifiableUser 5d ago
The idea that Israel “stole the land” makes no sense. The country was formed out of a conquered, subdivided empire, much like the rest of the Middle East. They then proceeded to win multiple defensive wars and as a condition of the wars ending, land was ceded to them for multiple different reasons. This is how geopolitics and war has gone for millennia.
Like if Ukraine was able to somehow take part of Russia by the time this conflict ends (obviously quite unlikely), would people stay they “stole land?” Of course not.
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u/Interesting-Yellow-4 5d ago
They are stealing land in West Bank, illegally. Noone, not even Israel is denying this.
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u/Such-Principle-3373 5d ago
It’s probably in my opinion the most unjustifiable thing Israel is actually doing that public pressure could do something about.
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u/nomad656 5d ago
Because they kicked off more than 750,000 Palestinians out of their homes during the Nakba.
The documentary Tantura has interviews with Israeli soldier veterans who admitted to committing war crimes like raping young girls, executing unarmed Palestinian villagers and burying them in mass graves.
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u/Dude_Letterhead5 5d ago
Obama might not be perfect, but when we look at American presidents broadly, it is clear we shouldn't let perfect get in the way of good.
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u/purple_gunner 5d ago
I feel people are way too harsh on Obama. During that time it wasn't like it's right now. There was no Senate and House that would just sign the laws regardless of what's in it. Obama had to juggle and fight to keep political coalitions while constantly being in the fire line.
Obama's only majority was his first 2 years, the other 6 years he had to deal with republicans to try and get things done.
Reality is, there where other priorities after the Great recession. While at the same time he was still dealing with the aftermath of Bush's Iraq invasion. At the same time Democratic voters had a lot more sympathy and support for Israël during that time.
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