r/politics • u/Particular_Log_3594 • 6d ago

No Paywall Obama: Israel 'took the land' from Palestinians, 'ceded moral ground' in Gaza

https://www.jpost.com/international/article-911851
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u/walkallover1991 District Of Columbia 6d ago

I'm sorry but statements like this give me "one day everyone will have been against this" vibes.

As President, Obama opposed Palestine's bid for full UN member status and then later also opposed their bid to non-member observer state status. His administration also worked to block Palestinian efforts to pursue charges against Israel at the ICC.

He continued doing the Democrat song and dance regarding settlement expansion, but expansion continued throughout his Presidency. The U.S. abstained from a UNSC vote on settlement expansion.

You can't be against settlement expansion while simultaneously sending military aid to Israel, protecting Israel on the international arena, and not sanctioning high-ranking Israeli leaders.

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u/Engrish_Major 6d ago

Cool. And we should want people to change for the better. The best accountability is changed behavior.

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u/evilgigglefish I voted 6d ago

we should also want people who genuinely believe in what's right, not conveniently changing their beliefs as soon as american public opinion changes.

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u/Pantarus 5d ago

Wait what?

That's literally the whole point of elected government...the will of the people, or at least in theory the majority.

If the public want it one way...it's literally supposed to be the job of an elected official to listen to us.

Yes there has always been opposition. But it's only recently that it's become what I would say closer to the majority and readable as such.

As public opinion changes...I WANT my leader to consider and change if needed.

The flip side of that shit is a tyrant and you just HOPE they change their minds when public opinion shifts...a la Trump.

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u/theREALbombedrumbum 6d ago

I'm with you on holding people accountable in recognition of them being late to the party, but I worry that messaging like yours will do more closing of doors than opening. When we're trying so hard for more politicians to do the bare minimum why waste energy going after the ones who are starting to take their first steps? If anything we're showing the prominent figures who are on the fence that they'll get criticized for not having done it sooner

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u/PlsNoOlives 5d ago

Accountability is acutely necessary. Obama isnt ignorant or uninitiated, and these little too late concessions are classic and predicted. Liberalism is against every war but the current war, and happy to mourn the victims of their own aggression, but take no steps to prevent their deaths. Israel calls it "shoot and cry" and they explicitly sanction it. Obama led the worst drone campaigns in our history but somehow maintains a legacy as a peaceful president, and he's barely said a peep in 3 years of extermination-stage genocide in Gaza. We need to stop worrying about the optics and the messaging and lock in or all this incremental-ism is just enabling the fascism to keep setting charges. 

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u/sirspacebill 5d ago

I mean, when someone criticizes obama in good faith, drone strikes are top of the list. I was young enough to where I felt safe not having to worry about anything politics when he was president, and even I know about how bad the drone strikes were/are for his legacy. The thing is though that's the only thing anyone really knows about, me included. If he did anything else that bad, id like to know but if he only has one stain on his presidency that's a pretty ok track record, historically speaking

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u/PlsNoOlives 5d ago

But it not like, a fun ranking game for favorite president. It's thousands of human lives extinguished. It's thousands of stains on his presidency, and if you're thinking "well that's true of all our presidents" then that's my point.  Americans just think it's our role on this planet to be a death machine and argue about who should drive it.

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u/-etuskoe- 5d ago

THANK YOU

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u/evilgigglefish I voted 6d ago

if we give them their flowers for taking a position they should have had from the beginning, we're giving them permission to keep being terrible because we'll always forgive them in the end. obama waiting to say this until well after his power and influence is gone means there is zero material affect this could possibly have other than slightly improve his own image.

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u/Immediate_Still5347 6d ago

His power and influence is certainly diminished but it’s not gone, he was president for two terms his actions and words still carry weight with a lot of voters. I agree he shouldn’t be lauded endlessly for this, I view him being comfortable saying this as more of sign that the wider electorate is opening up more to recognizing Israel’s evil and him saying this normalizes these beliefs amongst a wider population that may be more neutral on Israel/Palestine

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u/NaughtyCheffie I voted 6d ago

Guy has 30k comment karma and doesn't exist if you click through. Fake people aren't people.

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u/Penguinase 5d ago

they hide their comments/posts it's an option now for accounts

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u/ObiWanChronobi 6d ago

And they rightfully should be criticized for it. The longer they wait, the worse it is for them and the Palestinian people. So they better get off the fence now before they are tied to it.

These words from Obama are just words. When he had power he said one thing and did another with his power. Saying the same words now, without that power, is meaningless. Without acknowledging that he didn’t do enough, without an ounce of self-reflection, that isn’t accountability or atonement. Is it good that he’s saying this, sure, but it’s not even 1% of what is needed to make amends for his failures while in office.

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u/Half-deaf-mixed-guy 6d ago

Why do you think this statement is supposed to make amends for his failures and why do you only care about the failures after he's gone and not the positives. Its been 10 years since he was in office and Dem had full control for only the first 2 years (09-11) with Republicans preventing a majority of it holding the house for the rest of the term.

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u/ObiWanChronobi 6d ago

I don’t think this statement is meant to make amends for his failures and that’s my point. He doesn’t get laurels for saying similar things that he was saying while in power as he didn’t do anything to actually help them back then either. He’s never acknowledged that he could have done more and he’s had 10 years to own up to his mistakes.

He also didn’t need Congress to block weapons sales and transfers to foreign countries. They never had a veto-proof majority. So he had the power to affect changes his entire term in office.

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u/Idrinkbeereverywhere 6d ago

Uh, a representative government should reflect what the people want

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u/unclemilty420 6d ago

But Obama was never an Israel hawk. In fact, he had a frosty relationship with Netanyahu because he wasn't committed to unconditional support for Israel. His actions while in office were the result an insanely difficult tightrope he had to walk given previous American commitments and the existing consensus in the state department and on Capitol Hill that wouldn't change even if he had used his bully pulpit. Moreover, these comments are with respect to an event that occurred over six years after he was out of office.

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u/Daniel_The_Thinker 5d ago

I don't think Obama wasn't shackled by "previous American commitments" as much as he probably found Israel to be a troubling but ultimately valuable ally like other presidents before him.

I mean finding Bin Laden was a huge win for his administration and Israel did a lot of work helping American intelligence do that.

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u/BillyJoeMac9095 5d ago

Obama also never got anything to work with from Palestinians.

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u/NaughtyCheffie I voted 6d ago

Guy has 30k comment karma and doesn't exist if you click through. Fake people aren't people.

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u/unclemilty420 6d ago

I have no idea who you are talking about.

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u/porgy_tirebiter 6d ago

Obama changed his mind on gay rights and same sex marriage, in large part because of Biden. I’m okay with people changing their mind. I’m okay with people being open minded enough to give serious considerations to counter arguments.

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u/NaughtyCheffie I voted 6d ago

Guy has 30k comment karma and doesn't exist if you click through. Fake people aren't people.

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u/InternationalClub544 5d ago

If you're going to do this, please use the username of the person you're referencing. its confusing as shit if you don't. "Guy" could mean the person you're replying to or the person they were replying to.

Also, if they delete their posts or make their posts hidden, if YOU post their username in your post, then the comments will show up in Google searches for anyone in the future that tries to investigate if the account you're accusing, is actually a bot.

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u/biz_student 6d ago

lol Biden did not change Obama’s mind on gay rights. Biden is one of most moderate Democrats that we have.

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u/notfeelany 6d ago

Biden absolutely did change Obama's mind. And Biden is one of the most progressive presidents yet. Source: Bernie and Aoc

Bernie: "President Biden, when he came into office, said that he would be the most progressive president since F.D.R., [...]he has kept his word,"

AOC: "President Biden probably would go down as one of the most effective presidents that centered the working class"

Democrats truly deserve the votes and we failed them even after they twice saved this country from the ravages of covid and the great recession, and in doing so failed ourselves.

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u/biz_student 6d ago

You must be younger than 20 or gullible. His whole career has been anti gay marriage until it was about to become legal.

He voted for the Defense of Marriage Act in 1996, which defined marriage as between a man and a woman. He also opposed marriage for same-sex people in 2008. But in 2012, Biden expressed support for it on NBC’s “Meet The Press.”

https://politifact.com/article/2023/mar/17/tracking-the-shift-after-joe-bidens-same-sex-marri/

Edit - Biden voted for “don’t ask, don’t tell,” which banned homosexual military service members in 1993 as part of a larger defense bill.

Biden in 1994 backed Sens. Bob Smith, R-N.H., and Jesse Helms, R-N.C.’s proposal to stop federal aid to school districts that taught acceptance of homosexuality as a lifestyle. 

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u/voodoodahl 5d ago

Wow. DADT was transitional legislation that led to gay people being able to openly serve in the military. It was a first step in the right direction. The previous policy was no gay people period, and or possibly prison if you were found out.

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u/PM_ME_YOUR_LIT 5d ago

the "enthusiastically facilitating a genocide" bit doesn't cut into what you consider progressive credentials? people failing politicians, rather than the inverse?

i'm not sure you're ready for prime time

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u/Engrish_Major 6d ago

Is there any other first action than contrition when one has made a mistake? Like, how are people supposed to grow if you don’t let them? I struggle with this too but ultimately it’s not about my ego — it’s about theirs.

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u/ObiWanChronobi 6d ago

Saying sorry or taking accountability for one’s actions that contributed to the problem are a great place to start.

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u/Zealousideal-Map9327 6d ago

That's not fair to Obama.

Nor is it even accurate.

Obama is risking his political capital by giving this statement.

Despite what internet echochambers would have you believe, Israel is not unpopular enough to be criticized without losing a chunk of your main moderate base.

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u/beornn2 Texas 6d ago

I agree with what you are saying, but I’m curious; what does he care about political capital at this point? He’s never going to hold another public office, and I’m not sure how much pull he has campaigning for others. I simply think he wants to be on the right side of history at this point.

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u/GrumpyCloud93 5d ago

He cares precisely for what he's doing now. He may not personally run for office, but his support and backing helps others, as long as people respect him. I note George W has been silent on much of what's going on with his party, speaking of respect from party...

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u/evilgigglefish I voted 6d ago

in 2021, 58% of americans supported israelis and 25% supported palestinians. in 2026, 36% support israelis and 41% support palestinians. make whatever conclusion you want with those numbers, but it's very easy to spot a shift in public opinion.

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u/BillyJoeMac9095 5d ago

Careful not to assume that it means folks are anti Israel, as per my comment above

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u/Hertock 5d ago

Your numbers don’t add up.

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u/ObiWanChronobi 6d ago

Only 1/3 of Americans have a positive view of the Israeli government.

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u/spookynutz 6d ago

That isn't actionable information. Only 1/3 of Americans have a positive view of their own congress.

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u/halt-l-am-reptar 6d ago

“Only” as if a third isn’t an incredibly sizable chunk of the population. Especially when elections are usually incredibly close. Also it sure as shit wasn’t only 1/3 when he was in office.

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u/Adventurous_Salt 6d ago

Obama is risking his political capital by giving this statement.

What risk, he's retired. Will this risk his chances at making crappy Netflix documentaries or something?

Also, "political capital" isn't a think, it only exists so dems can "save" it by not doing anything useful.

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u/BillyJoeMac9095 5d ago

Indeed. Being against Israel's current actions and leadership is not the same as wanting to put an end to the nation.

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u/[deleted] 6d ago

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u/shoot998 6d ago

Hey EnhancedWithAI, I'm assuming you're a liberal based off of the rest of your comment. I've got to ask, what's it like to hold a position that's as popular with your fellow liberals as anti-choice legislation

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u/EnhancedWithAi 6d ago

I don't sit in the binary system , you can't get more swinging than me baby.

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u/shoot998 6d ago

Well you're in the minority for American Adults as well so you must be swinging your head right into a wall

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u/EnhancedWithAi 6d ago

Of course, you're left leaning, I get just as much flak on the right forums. There's no place for my voice. C'est la vie.

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u/sea___ 6d ago

Saying you support and side with "freedom of life within their population" implies you have full knowledge that they are occupying another population and denying them their freedom (and presumably you know that they are killing them in massive numbers) And STILL support them

So you are surprised there's no place for your voice when you are saying "I support the side that has their own freedom at the cost of the freedom of other people"

Ok ...

I don't really understand why you would expect any reasonable person to agree with you tbh

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u/EnhancedWithAi 5d ago

And I don't understand any reasonable person who would side with a country that supports the death and stoning of Homosexuals. But here we are.

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u/OppressedCow6148 5d ago

So support the side that supports the death of ALL brown middle eastern people not just the homosexuals? Make it make sense.

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u/Towel4 5d ago

“Sorry, you’re not virtuous enough to earn MY vote”

Have you ever met, idk, any politician?

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u/naynaythewonderhorse 5d ago

You create an impossible situation where no politician is allowed to change under those circumstances. This country is literally never going to heal if we don’t start accepting people who own up to their mistakes.

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u/COMCredit Indiana 5d ago

I don't really buy this because politicians (unlike your friends and neighbors who should be given grace when they own up to mistakes) can be replaced by people who do have moral clarity and political courage. The alternative to saying "sorry, we don't forgive you" to a politician that did wrong is a situation wherein morality when holding the levers of powers becomes almost irrelevant because legacy-concerned politicians (as Obama and most others tend to be) can simply apologize when it becomes politically convenient.

The core of our disagreement is really - what should be the cost of doing wrong, even when doing wrong is a popular/default position, as a politician? Personally I don't think it's productive for the answer to be "nothing, as long as they apologize"

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u/naynaythewonderhorse 5d ago

You are confusing “politician” with “elected official.”

You can’t “replace” Obama. (The subject of the discussion here.) He was President and he can’t be President again. His existence as a former President is never gonna go away.

Yes, you can replace people in power.

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u/COMCredit Indiana 5d ago

Fair point.

What, then, is the motivation for accepting his mistakes? How does expressing that we want politicians who have moral clarity and a genuine belief in what's right (and therefore rejecting these sorts of apologies) prevent healing? Why is it an impediment to healing to say "we don't like you because you failed morally and lacked courage"?

Does that not create a situation wherein the consequences for acting immorally as an elected official are basically none, because they can be forgiven and rehabilitated when they are out of power?

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u/naynaythewonderhorse 5d ago

I’m a little off today because of some family tragedy, but honestly the deeper stuff you are saying isn’t necessarily what I think is important.

People get too stuck up on people doing things for the wrong reasons. But, realistically if the good thing gets done, why does the motivation matter? He’s speaking out, and the only thing we get is “Too little too late.”

So, what exactly do people want to happen? I have no idea. There’s this expectation for Politicians to maybe take a stance, but as soon as they do they are questioned about it.

Honestly, to a certain extent the questioning of the legitimacy of decisions like this feels like a scheme to make sure the fracturing of the people continues.

Because honestly these questions of legitimacy leave absolute NO ROOM for a solution to the issue.

Like, if Obama is full of shit, then…well, I guess he’s full of shit. There’s rarely, if ever, a solution to the issue offered. It’s literally just fractured discussion that feels like it’s manipulating the population into not accepting that people can change.

Someone is defecting from the narrative? Better throw some comments in the top that immediately put into question the legitimacy of the politicians new stance.

Like, there is absolutely no way we can heal as a country without some level of compromise. No, we can’t go back to the old status quo, but we can make sure the new status quo has an off-ramp for Trumpers. They have none right now, and I think for defections to happen, we need to stop questioning it.

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u/COMCredit Indiana 5d ago

I'm very sorry to hear that you're going through a difficult time in your family. My thoughts are with you.

But, realistically if the good thing gets done, why does the motivation matter?

That's the whole point though, the good thing didn't get done. The harm was done explicitly, both in terms of individual UN votes and in terms of continued support for Israel. Yes, it's too little too late - I'm sorry but I don't believe in giving credit to the former most powerful person in the world for saying "huh, maybe this is kinda messed up" when, at the time of being the most powerful person on the planet, he actively contributed to how messed up things are now.

So, what exactly do people want to happen?

What we want to happen is active politicians to realize that they have an imperative to do what's right. Of course, Obama, a student in the tradition of James Baldwin and Toni Morrison, knew what was right at the time, but he still didn't do it.

There’s this expectation for Politicians to maybe take a stance, but as soon as they do they are questioned about it.

Well, yes, that's the job. Obama had 8 years as president and a decade after that to influence the party and towards the right side of the issue. It's better that he come around now than never but it's really really hard for me to not see this as too little, too late.

I'm not questioning the legitimacy of his opinion at all. I don't think he's full of shit. I think it's entirely possible his views have legitimately changed on the subject - but I don't care whats in the heart of politicians, I care when and now they exert their power and to what end. And Obama did not exert his power (and still isn't, really) well at all, in my opinion.

We can make sure the new status quo has an off-ramp for Trumpers. They have none right now, and I think for defections to happen, we need to stop questioning it.

I'm not sure what you mean. For regular people, sure there's an off ramp. Welcome to the club, glad you're out of the cult. For politicians and pundits? No, absolutely not - the absolutely most charitable and forgiving take is that you have horrible, horrible judgement and should never ever be trusted with any amount of power again. The best case scenario is that every Republican that supported Trump is humiliated professionally and forced to retreat completely from professional life - just like Confederates and segregationists should've been.

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u/syzygyly 5d ago

What you're proposing require people believe in what's right the first time, every time. It is simply not feasible

I'm not saying Obama wasn't informed when it comes to this topic, but consier the larger nature of the criteria you're proposing

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u/[deleted] 6d ago

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u/lordcthulhu17 Colorado 5d ago

dawg its Obama he drone striked us citizens wake up

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u/notfeelany 6d ago

not conveniently changing their beliefs as soon as american public opinion changes.

This is a such cynical viewpoint on "politician listening to their voters".

Politicians listening to voters is actually good (and how it's supposed to work).

So do ppl want their politicians to listen to the voters or not? Because I thought everyone wanted their politician's position to change based on what the voters wanted.

If politicians are both attacked for adopting & not adopting policies by the same ppl, there's no incentive to listen/follow those same ppl.

We must reward politician who finally follow our positions with votes.

And Democrats deserved our votes even more given that they saved this country twice now from economic collapses due to covid and the great recession. We failed them and in doing so failed ourselves.

It's the Absolute Fact of US politics: The more people try to hold Democrats "accountable" (and only Democrats) for an issue, they will enable a Republican govt that will NEVER care about those concerns.

We the voters all must commit vote & elect Democrats now&forever without exception, and restore them to their RIGHTFUL places: veto-proof majorities in Congress and then the Presidency.

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u/SouthernAddress5051 6d ago

Obama didn't have to say anything at all, and he's not running for anything. The convenience would have been to say nothing

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u/murdolatorTM 6d ago

I agree and I hate when people gloss over that because they can't stomach their fav being criticized. But in fairness, of all the living presidents, Obama was allegedly the least cooperative with Israel. Which doesn't count for much, but still

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u/Exavion 5d ago

TBH thats how many people want their elected officials to behave. If they all see a new side of something and public opinion shifts, your representatives should do so as well unless they are privy to significant classified information that tells them otherwise. The alternative is being forced to wait for a new election to replace an official who doesn’t budge or is bound to their even slower moving party platform

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u/biz_student 6d ago

This is Obama’s schtick. He was anti gay marriage until the Supreme Court was ready to make it legal.

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u/halt-l-am-reptar 6d ago

People are allowed to change their views.

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u/biz_student 6d ago

It’s disingenuous when your opinion only changes when it’s a popular opinion to take

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u/an_angry_Moose 6d ago

You know which opinion Obama truly believes is right?

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u/LoveMeSomeBerserk 5d ago

Have you always had the correct moral beliefs in every aspect of your life?

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u/buppiejc 6d ago

this