r/politics • u/Particular_Log_3594 • 6d ago

No Paywall Obama: Israel 'took the land' from Palestinians, 'ceded moral ground' in Gaza

https://www.jpost.com/international/article-911851
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u/Think-Explanation-75 6d ago edited 6d ago

Only those with a bias will sit here and ignore how many times Obama stood up to Israel during his tenure

https://westerman.house.gov/media-center/blog-post/obama-has-undermined-us-relationship-israel

https://imeu.org/resources/key-issues/ten-egregious-israeli-snubs-of-the-obama-administration/243

I can keep going, but quite frankly, you guys either weren't paying attention because you were still in your anarchist phase or were just oblivious.

Edit: since y’all are too dense to do any more research for yourself here’s a full frontline documentary going over the relationship. Maybe this might be a good enough source for you. Why you couldn’t find this for yourself I will never know

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/documentary/netanyahu-at-war/

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u/Atroxa 6d ago

Or likely too young to remember Obama's presidency.

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u/NaughtyCheffie I voted 6d ago

WTF are you talking about? Obama's Presidency was like 10....years...ago.. Oh well shit. Carry on. weeps quietly

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u/PuppiesAndPixels 5d ago

His presidency ENDED 10 years ago. So 26 year olds today may have been paying attention to national politics, but probably not many of them. To really remember his presidency you really need to be in your mid 30's now because his presidency started 18 years ago.

the more you know

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u/cptjeff 5d ago

You're right, but also, screw you, I'm still a young person and don't you dare imply anything else.

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u/Mannekin-Skywalker 5d ago

Correction, it ended 10 years ago. Most people entering college today wouldn’t have many memories of the Obama presidency.

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u/voodoodahl 5d ago

The details of Obama's presidency have been fabricated by bots and lying leftist media for most Redditors.

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u/Kratos-sama 6d ago

What's the deal with so many of you Americans criticizing Obama over Israel. Is it simply a case of people having been too young to remember his presidency? Hell, even Obama's own party didn't support his position on Israel. What the hell did y'all expect him to do anyway? I commend Think-Explanation-75 for being sensible.

https://www.politico.com/blogs/ben-smith/2010/04/schumer-obamas-counter-productive-israel-policy-has-to-stop-026564

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u/GrumpyCloud93 5d ago

The trouble is - what did he do, besides the typical Democrat "strongly worded letter"? Israel still got military support, settled in Palestine unimpeded, and regularly "mowed the grass" (And couldn't figure out why they got attacked by Gaza)

I would have expected US reaction to be a little more forceful. Plus, Obama wimped out on the Syrian gas attack "red line" and did not enough to contain Russia when it took Crimea.

Domestically, Obama was an excellent president.

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u/defaulticus 5d ago

Re: Syria - this irritated me too but I'm 99% certain he thought we'd get sucked into another middle eastern forever war if he did anything and he was dead set against that.

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u/GrumpyCloud93 5d ago

I sort of understand that bit - I guess it boils down to what can you do, the USA is not the policeman of the world much as they sometimes pretend to be.

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u/r4b1d0tt3r 5d ago

A politician has a certain amount of capital to spend and Obama chose not to expend much on restricting Israel. You can agree or disagree with where he chose to spend that capital. Personally I think in 2009-2016 cutting off Israel would have been ruinously expensive for the administration in the context of the political support in not just the GOP but the Democrats establishment and let's be clear, voters. This is the midlife of the war on terror after all and Israel was seen as the oracle on suppressing Islamic terrorism. I think for all that expenditure the fundamentals of the conflict would not change meaningfully.

What Obama did then or does now think about the justice of the situation my memory can't parse the history well enough to say, but as with any president other than Trump who just acts on wherever idiot idea pops into his head I imagine Obama's calculations were rather sophisticated. This is the type of trade off in that could have killed the aca for example.

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u/No-Distance-9401 5d ago

Tbf, back then I'd bet it was easily 90% of Congress taking Israeli money and being pro-Israel as people, especially the media, wouldn't report the horrors the Israelis did to Palestinians. It was also a different media landscape with less social media and not having that actual unadulterated news pushed by so many different sources.

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u/BillyJoeMac9095 5d ago

To spend capital on pushing a peace process, a President is going to need something from Palestinians as well as Israel.

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u/Aggressive-Neck-3921 5d ago

Dems cutting themselves off from israel would have been better in the long run. At this moment support for israel from a politician basically means that they will 99% likely do nothing for you and is just there as an agent for capital. They will be part of the revolving door of villians that will block actual good policy that would help normal people.

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u/StunningCloud9184 5d ago

Because its a group trying to smear democrats as bad

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u/Enterprise-DeezNuts 5d ago

You guys who think any criticism of Dems from the left has to be some kind of organized operation need to be studied

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u/StunningCloud9184 5d ago edited 5d ago

Lmao its always funny how the left shoot themselves in the foot. Oh you cared about gaza? Oh good job getting aid cut to them and restoring 2000 lb bombs and putting bibis best friend in charge.

Oh wait you didnt interrupt any trump speeches but still interupted kamala a year out of office? Hmm weird how all the gaza heat is on democrats out of office but none for trump in office lmao.

Edit: Lmao the guy blocked me. If any of you want to copy and paste my response to get under his skin be my guest

Aid was not getting into Gaza under Biden. That's why they were starving when he left office. Biden paused a single shipment of 20,000 lb bombs that eventually got sent anyway, and it makes no difference to the dead whether they're killed with a 20,000 bomb or a 19,999 pound bomb. Kamala explicitly promised to never condition or stop weapons shipments to Israel. You're less informed than your average MAGA voter lmao

Lol he removed all “2000 lbs bombs” (see how uninformed you are) going forward because those were the ones associated with civilians casualties. Hence a partial arms embargo. Dont worry trump got rid of it now and they got more in case you were worried.

Lol It makes a difference on how many people get killed if you use a 2000 lb bunker buster vs a 500 lb bomb. Wow youre telling on how uninformed you are.

Kamala said it was a tradegy in gaza and needed a ceasefire and a two state solution. But leftist said trump was the same when he said israel should finish the job. Hahaha remember when the gazans begged you not to let trump in office and leftist were like nah we are gonna punish dems by letting republicans kill off gaza lmao.

Youre less informed than your average maga voter lmao.

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u/Enterprise-DeezNuts 5d ago

Aid was not getting into Gaza under Biden. That's why they were starving when he left office. Biden paused a single shipment of 20,000 lb bombs that eventually got sent anyway, and it makes no difference to the dead whether they're killed with a 20,000 bomb or a 19,999 pound bomb. Kamala explicitly promised to never condition or stop weapons shipments to Israel. You're less informed than your average MAGA voter lmao

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u/Federal_Thanks7596 5d ago

What's the number of Palestinans killed under Harris and Trump?

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u/StunningCloud9184 5d ago

What's the number of Palestinans killed under Harris and Trump?

How many people died after seatbelts were invented vs before? how many people died of covid after covid shots came out?

Hint even though more died in one the actual preventative measures were in place to stop more deaths

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u/Federal_Thanks7596 5d ago

What are you talking about? The measures were always there. Kamala could've picked up a phone and called Bibi literally any day and Israel would've been forced to stop. Hell, we've seen Trump do it at the start of 2025.

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u/StunningCloud9184 5d ago

What are you talking about? The measures were always there. Kamala could've picked up a phone and called Bibi literally any day and Israel would've been forced to stop. Hell, we've seen Trump do it at the start of 2025.

Lmao the ceasefire was actually before trump was in office. By biden.

And aid returned to normal. Under biden.

Oh lets see how the bibi kamala meeting went. According to whitehouse historian woodward.

[Kamala] was tough with Netanyahu, in a way that he did not like at all, and then she’s saying, Look at what’s going on in Gaza - is unconscionable an unconscionable humanitarian disaster. Then she went out to the Press and said exactly the exact same thing and said, I will not be silent. Netanyahu was furious, but he knew she may be the next President of the United States; so he didn't say anything. So her willingness to go get in his face, the motto “I will not be silent” is one of the things she ought to wear around her neck with pride.

But dont worry both sides lmao.

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u/Federal_Thanks7596 5d ago

I'm pretty sure the ceasefire happened under Trump. Regardless, I'm not here to defend Trump. Why didn't Harris stop Israel at literally any point? The US has all the power over them.

[Kamala] was tough with Netanyahu, in a way that he did not like at all, and then she’s saying, Look at what’s going on in Gaza - is unconscionable an unconscionable humanitarian disaster. Then she went out to the Press

Oh, what a girlboss, she really showed him there. Hey, tens of thousands of civilians were murdered but Kamala being tough on Bibi is what really matters. How about actually doing something meaningful?

It's funny to watch the absolute clown show that the US politics is from the outside and dems like yourself who'll "vote blue no matter who" and defend them despite literally enabling a genocide and being petty much the same as Trump on this issue.

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u/aylio 5d ago

Copied, pasted, and seconded as requested. Im so tired of their farce. They never gave a fk about Palestine or anyone else and all of their actions show it.

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u/aylio 5d ago

"Lmao its always funny how the left shoot themselves in the foot. Oh you cared about gaza? Oh good job getting aid cut to them and restoring 2000 lb bombs and putting bibis best friend in charge.

Oh wait you didnt interrupt any trump speeches but still interupted kamala a year out of office? Hmm weird how all the gaza heat is on democrats out of office but none for trump in office lmao.

Edit: Lmao the guy blocked me. If any of you want to copy and paste my response to get under his skin be my guest

Aid was not getting into Gaza under Biden. That's why they were starving when he left office. Biden paused a single shipment of 20,000 lb bombs that eventually got sent anyway, and it makes no difference to the dead whether they're killed with a 20,000 bomb or a 19,999 pound bomb. Kamala explicitly promised to never condition or stop weapons shipments to Israel. You're less informed than your average MAGA voter lmao

Lol he removed all “2000 lbs bombs” (see how uninformed you are) going forward because those were the ones associated with civilians casualties. Hence a partial arms embargo. Dont worry trump got rid of it now and they got more in case you were worried.

Lol It makes a difference on how many people get killed if you use a 2000 lb bunker buster vs a 500 lb bomb. Wow youre telling on how uninformed you are.

Kamala said it was a tradegy in gaza and needed a ceasefire and a two state solution. But leftist said trump was the same when he said israel should finish the job. Hahaha remember when the gazans begged you not to let trump in office and leftist were like nah we are gonna punish dems by letting republicans kill off gaza lmao.

Youre less informed than your average maga voter lmao."

I am a progressive and social Democrat and I endorse this quoted message my ally sent. Enterprise and his pals, y'all don't give a fk about gazans, immigrants, or Americans and you pretending to is the biggest farce. You call yourselves comrades but you wouldn't learn comradery and common purpose even if your life depended on it.

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u/Ok_Crow_9119 5d ago

Let's be frank about this. Neither side was for Palestine. Both were for Israel, albeit to different degrees. But people wouldn't be as critical of the Dems if they still held power while Israel gets to continue its ethnic cleansing of Gaza more quietly, because they expect Trump will be worse (which he probably is). 

So it's only right for Palestinians and who care about the Palestinian genocide to vote for neither and call out Kamala for not even giving the Palestinian delegate a platform during the Democratic Convention. Why would they support a politician if they know that the politician will never support them?

And ultimately, by "settling", it sends a signal to Politicians that certain issues are not worth fighting for. So how can expect politicians to change if they keep on getting what they want (winning the elections)?

So as a comrade, you also need to understand where the common man is coming from, where the marginalized group is coming from.

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u/Enterprise-DeezNuts 5d ago edited 5d ago

Citing Zionists is very weird. They cry about every imagined slight and treat anything less than saying Israel has the god given right to slaughter whoever they want as antisemitism. Schumer in particular is one of the least credible people you could cite here. Obama's "standing up to Israel" was basically a strongly worded letter. He took a number of actions in the UN to materially undermine Palestinian liberation and sent Israel military aid and weapons while they illegally expanded their settlements

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u/haixin 6d ago

I had a really hard time going through the house.gov link read like it was written, petty as fuck and putting someone down for no other reason but to talk oneself up

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u/Enterprise-DeezNuts 6d ago edited 5d ago

I like how your sources are a pro-Israel org and a Republican congressman lol Zionists cry about every imagined slight. And I shouldn't have to point out how ridiculous it is that you cited a Republican politician

Obama opposed Palestinian membership in the UN, opposed their bid for non-member observer status, blocked efforts to pursue ICC charges against Israel officials, abstained from voting on settlement expansion in the UN and continued to send weapons and aid to Israel while they expanded the settlements. You literally cannot be categorized as standing up to Israel when you send them military aid while they illegally expand their settlements and you vote in their favor in the UN

This is him trying to glom onto the popularity of the Palestinian liberation movement growing in the Democratic Party and continue to cover for Israel by pretending that they EVER had any moral ground as a genocidal ethnostate existing on stolen land

Edit: Jesus Christ and then he cites a random documentary about the US and Israel as some sort of definitive proof about Obama specifically. Bro is citing stuff like a broken LLM

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u/LaLa1234imunoriginal 6d ago

Shh you can't show up with facts like this when people are glazing Obama. They might call you a dirty leftist and blame you for Trump being elected.

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u/StunningCloud9184 5d ago

Yea they probably shouldnt have protested kamala and biden so much. Crazy how its been 3 years and not one trump speech has been interrupted but they showed up for kamalas book tour a year after she was out office.

lmao

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u/Enterprise-DeezNuts 5d ago

Yeah man, it's totally the fault of the people protesting the genocide and not the people who were participating in it and funding it, and who literally chose supporting Israel over winning more votes. You're so smart

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u/StunningCloud9184 5d ago edited 5d ago

lmao pretty much. If they cared about gaza at all they would have protested trump. which they havent. so it was obviously just for show to help get him elected.

Wonder why leftist chose trump to represent their country. wouldnt be my first choice

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u/Enterprise-DeezNuts 5d ago

Jesus you're not even smart enough to get that I was being sarcastic lmao brother, Dems oversaw the genocide for over a year. We all watched as bombs sent by Biden incinerated babies and we all heard you guys saying protesting a genocide was antisemitic

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u/StunningCloud9184 5d ago

Jesus you're not even smart enough to get that I was being sarcastic lmao brother, Dems oversaw the genocide for over a year. We all watched as bombs sent by Biden incinerated babies and we all heard you guys saying protesting a genocide was antisemitic

lmao its really funny how they were getting food under biden and then no food under trump. They really liked that part. Lmao remember when gazans were begging “anyone but trump” and leftist were like “no”. Thats what happens when activists dont care about the actual subjects theyre supposed to care about lol.

How do you feel about the 750,000 dead babies from usaid cuts under trump youre responsible for? Given its about 10x all the gaza deaths you probably protest that too right? Given all gaza deaths are a rounding error in those deaths right?

lmao

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u/Enterprise-DeezNuts 5d ago

They weren't getting food under Biden though, is the problem with your claim. May you have the day you voted for Palestinians to have, you're not sentient enough for me to keep wasting my time

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u/StunningCloud9184 5d ago

They weren't getting food under Biden though, is the problem with your claim. May you have the day you voted for Palestinians to have, you're not sentient enough for me to keep wasting my time

Yet they still got food. And actually a ceasefire and returned to normal level of aids before biden left. Too bad you gave that all up to I guess punish dems by killing palestians? I dunno what your point was. oh well I hope you have the day you voted for palestinians to have.

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u/Ursa_Solaris 5d ago

What a sociopathic and repulsive comment.

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u/StunningCloud9184 5d ago

I agree. Can you believe people dont care about the 700,000 dead babies just cause theyre black and in africa and not killed by israel people?

I think black people are just as important if not more so than hamas

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u/[deleted] 5d ago

[deleted]

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u/lexalander Colorado 5d ago

Crazy cope.

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u/Enterprise-DeezNuts 5d ago

It's funny that these types are so mad, they got exactly what they wanted! Dems told them that they would never have to listen to those mean ol anti-genocide leftists again if their supporters just let them help Israel incinerate babies and run on right wing policies so that they could court Republicans

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u/lexalander Colorado 5d ago

Dems never said anything like that.

You're such a little victim.

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u/Enterprise-DeezNuts 5d ago

Did you think I was claiming they literally said that and not that their actions sent that message? It's hilarious that you guys think you're smarter than MAGA

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u/lexalander Colorado 5d ago

lol ok that's bullshit too.

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u/Enterprise-DeezNuts 5d ago

Whatever helps you feel better about the fact that you said nothing while your leaders funded a genocide. I hope you have the day you voted for Palestinians to have 🙏

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u/pepepopo1237 5d ago

The bots seem to have found your comment

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u/MadScienceIntern 5d ago

Looks like somebody did a lot of reading during their 'anarchist phase' that the libs didn't account for

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u/GrumpyCloud93 5d ago

Well said. I suspect in part it was because of the political reality with AIPAC in the politics back then... but still..

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u/Zero_Waist 6d ago

He lost some supporters when he spoke at AIPAC during his campaign.

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u/CV90_120 6d ago

There's no way to be a President and not lose some supporters for something. The office is always bigger and older than the person. Treaties will predate you and require your attention. In the case of Israel there are the Camp David accords going back to Carter.

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u/Zero_Waist 5d ago

There is Israel and then there is AIPAC. I don't understand how the latter is allowed to contribute to US campaigns and not be considered foreign interference. They do have an outsized influence on candidates and the press from what I can tell.

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u/CV90_120 5d ago

Are you aware of what Obama's discussion agenda was with them? Also AIPAC is Israel, don't think otherwise. They are the US based political wing of Hasbara in everything but name. What happens in Tel Aviv, becomes policy for AIPAC. Knowing this is why politicians take them seriously.

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u/MustBeThisHeight 6d ago

These are both terrible sources. Nothing credible here.

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u/Annoying_cat_22 5d ago

Is a parent "standing up" to their kids when they ground them?

What an ignorant framing. Israel is a proxy of the US, heavily dependent on it for diplomatic and military protection. Obama had the power to force a 2 state solution and chose not to do it. Talking 10 years too late doesn't help anyone and doesn't absolves him from his support that lead to the Gaza genocide.

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u/WeWantLADDER49sequel 5d ago

There is no way we force a two state solution. That entire region is unstable and it is dependent on our money to keep it even at the level of unstable it is now. We withdraw support and not only does the genocide continue but it accelerate. People love to believe the conspiracy that presidents keep sending money because they are controlled by invisible israeli money but in reality its because no one has found a way to ween the region off of our support without causing millions of deaths.

Without us, Israel would be way more aggressive towards potential threats in Gaza since they would no longer have the defense capabilites we grant them. Iran would be able to attach Israel much easier. They would all destroy each other. This is all a reality that #freepalestine people choose to ignore.

To be clear, I still think we should just cut them off and let the events unfold. But i also understand why Presidents have not simply cut the money off because no one wants to be the president that allowed the region to completely implode.

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u/Annoying_cat_22 5d ago

Of course it's possible, but Obama was president 10 years ago when it was even easier to force it. No Gaza genocide, no war with Iran, less settlements.

The far right is "only" 20-30% of Israel. 20-30 more for the right. The center, while still supporting the Gaza genocide, would be happy to accept the forced 2ss instead of becoming North Korea.

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u/Think-Explanation-75 5d ago

Again, this framing of "10 years" is widely inaccurate.

Case 1 https://www.csmonitor.com/World/Middle-East/2009/0521/p06s01-wome.html

Immediately after taking office, Obama worked to stop Israeli settlements from further advancing into Palestinian land.

Case 2: The Cairo Speech, or his speech in Israel https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVKWr11oBUE

This framing that Obama did not care about or do anything for the Palestinian people is a falsehood. And the only reason you didn't see this is that

A.) You didn't care or didn't pay attention back then
B.) You were too young
C.) You have done 0 research into his administration and simply talk about his presidency knowing nothing about it.

"Obama had the power to force a 2 state solution and chose not to do it." This right here might be up there with the top 10 stupidest things I've read ever. If the us president was able to force a 2 state solution, we would not need the Oslo Accords. So please elaborate on how a president of the United States can force a 2 state solution? I would love to hear this reasoning.

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u/Enterprise-DeezNuts 5d ago edited 5d ago

Citing a speech as an example of "doing something" is very funny. And a call for an end to settlement expansion is meaningless when the US did not vote against Israeli settlement expansion in the UN and continued to send them guns to use in said expansion. What no material analysis does to someone. Neither of those things stopped a single bomb, fed a single orphan, or saved a single Palestinian from the terror Israel inflicts on them every day

As for how he could have gotten a 2 state solution, literally all America has to do whenever we deal with Israel on any topic is tell them no more weapons or aid unless they do what we say. Israel cannot fight its wars without American weapons, they do not have the ability to produce replacements. American politicians don't do this because Israel's wars generally serve American imperial interests

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u/Think-Explanation-75 5d ago edited 5d ago

"As for how he could have gotten a 2 state solution, literally all America has to do whenever we deal with Israel on any topic is tell them no more weapons or aid unless they do what we say. Israel cannot fight its wars without American weapons"

Thank you for showing how little you know about this topic, because Obama did just that, and Israel went behind their back to acquire weapons anyway.

It's actually funny you used that example since it was such a high-profile situation where Israel used back channels behind the president's back to acquire those weapons. Showing that even if the president prevented weapon sales, they were so integrated in our society that they could still acquire them if they wanted, which they did.

And the speeches are just examples. But that fact I must sit here for hours alleviating the ignorance of hundreds rather than any of you actually looking at the context or what really happens is the issue here. You would rather larp when there's a crisis than approach it informed.

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u/Annoying_cat_22 5d ago

 Israeli military had been quietly securing supplies of ammunition from the Pentagon without their approval.

So you think the US president can't stop US weapon shipments to Israel? And this doesn't worry you? Taking bootlicking to a whole new level.

Any serious president would have fired anyone involved and ban all weapon shipments to Israel for the rest of his term.

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u/Annoying_cat_22 5d ago

  1. he is the president, Israel is a proxy. There is no "worked to".

  2. Oh he gave a speech. Did it stop anything? No. Got him a peace prize though, that's nice.

  3. Did he care in his heart? Maybe, only god knows. Did he do anything to help them? No.

  4. I am an Israeli, I was in the Israeli army back then. Believe me I was paying attention. He didn't do anything.

  5. The US president is able to force a 2 state solution. They all chose not to do it. The Oslo accords was the path to the 2 state solution, and all it needed was for the US presidents to force Israel to follow it to its resolution instead of letting it abuse it and drag "the process" forever.

All I can hope for is that the next president will skip the process, and just force the solution by force with an executive order.

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u/Enterprise-DeezNuts 5d ago

It's wild that these people don't seem to understand that Israel would literally be incapable of carrying out a genocide or attacking anyone if we just told them "no more weapons". Reagan did it with a single phone call

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u/No_Pizza_9831 5d ago

You know that attempting to make a point about how one sided/extreme an opinion is while simultaneously throwing out insults like "anarchist phase" to unfairly degrade a point that otherwise has merit just proves you're the same thing you're criticizing right?

Both sides have valid points. You are correct he did stand up to Israel at times, but he also heavily armed Israel and actively worked against Palestine, while simultaneously bombing the middle east (including to "defend Israel") with drones and bombs more than any president in recent history (including Trump). He may have stood up to Israel sometimes, but his policies disproportionately supported Israel (as all US presidents do) and are directly responsible for the events we see in that region of the world today. To argue otherwise just proves you are as ignorant as those you criticize, especially when you accuse others of not "paying attention" while ignoring all of the other evidence yourself.

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u/Vegetable-Error-2068 6d ago

Yawn. More centrists dismissing deserved criticism as invalid.

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u/slo1111 5d ago

Unfortunately his UN votes did not match his words

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u/TheToiletPhilosopher 5d ago

Oh wow... strongly worded letters. so brave. How many times did he actually do anything to reduce funding?

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u/billbuild 6d ago

Times have changed. I’ll take it right now and worry about why not sooner later.

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u/goldbman North Carolina 6d ago

Those data centers in Russia must be back online

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u/ThePurpleBatman22 6d ago

Cool man. Then why'd he push Biden on us who undid all that and escalated this genocide?

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u/The_Pandalorian California 6d ago

Y'all are pathological.

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u/t_zidd 6d ago

...wtf? Biden is one of the most (and always has been) staunchly pro Israel politicians in the US. Why does that make him/her pathological?

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u/The_Pandalorian California 6d ago

The old "Genocide Joe" shit that helped give us Trump is absolutely pathological.

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u/Enterprise-DeezNuts 6d ago edited 6d ago

Biden unconditionally funded a genocide for over a year and has been very clear that he believes in Zionism for his whole career. He literally calls himself a Zionist openly. One of his final acts in office was to bypass Congress (far from the first time) to send Israel billions in weapons. These are inarguable facts, regardless of how badly you need to deny them for your own comfort. All you're doing by refusing to even acknowledge that your party giddily participated in a genocide is harming Dems' future electoral chances.

We all saw it happen. We saw the bombs that Biden sent kill babies. We watched the weapons flow to Israel while orphans starved. We watched both elected Dems and "normal" folk Dems cheer as students were beaten and arrested and people lost their jobs for protesting the genocide. We all watched the delegates mock protesters outside the convention. We all heard you guys call everyone who protested a genocide antisemites who secretly love Trump. We all heard you guys call yourselves antifascists while simultaneously telling everyone that it's fine that your leaders are funding a fascist genocide. If you refuse to reckon with these things and acknowledge that Democrats were complicit in and supportive of a genocide while claiming to be antifascists, your party has no future. You guys aren't good enough at beating Trump to make that your only value

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u/The_Pandalorian California 5d ago

Simple question for you types, that you can never seem to answer: Would we have been better off with Harris as president or Trump?

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u/Enterprise-DeezNuts 5d ago

Simple question for you types, why are you incapable of doing anything but trying to deflect from the reality of your party's enthusiastic participation in a genocide?

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u/The_Pandalorian California 5d ago

Man, lay off the DMT, your posts are incoherent horseshit.

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u/Enterprise-DeezNuts 5d ago edited 5d ago

If you can't make sense of that sentence, you should probably sign up for reading tutoring at your local elementary school. That or lay off the booze

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u/Knowledge_Moist Canada 6d ago

helped give us Trump 

Lmao the denial. Liberals like you will blame absolutely everyone but themselves for their defeat. It can't be our candidates or policies, it's the leftists or the immigrants or the latino or the muslims or black people. Not that different from conservatives in a way - they just say it was stolen.

Sorry but History will not be kind to Biden. The Neville Chamberlain of our time.

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u/The_Pandalorian California 5d ago

History will be less kind to the Palestinians who voted for Trump. If there are any left when Trump and Netanyahu are done with them.

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u/t_zidd 6d ago

Lmao are we still saying that's what got trump elected?

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u/iLikeBugsNFishes 6d ago

"this election is a fight for democracy!!!" the party says as they subvert the will of their voter base and intentionally obscure doorknockers data about Gaza.

"You brought us trump!!!" The sycophant screams to the crowd as they explain how they are bad people for standing against genocide.

These people didn't lose Kamala the election, apathy and the couch lost her the election.

The party that couldn't speak out against a genocide, let alone stop themselves from arming and funding it, will never be the party to save democracy.

1

u/The_Pandalorian California 5d ago

These people didn't lose Kamala the election

Except, they did.

https://www.axios.com/2026/02/22/dnc-2024-autopsy-harris-gaza

Apathy is voters' fault. As is the resulting Trump-supported actual genocide.

Y'all are still in fucking denial. It's wild.

2

u/Enterprise-DeezNuts 5d ago edited 5d ago

It's wild that you can look at something that says "Kamala's stance on Israel was the problem" and still blame everyone but the people who were funding a genocide for their choice to pick Israel over winning. Also cool bit of genocide denial you're doing there

0

u/iLikeBugsNFishes 5d ago

You see dozens of millions of people staying home, and you see a political party that ignored the will of their voters, and instead of holding your party accountable, you decide to individually blame each voter who stayed home and voted with their conscience.

This is inherently antidemocratic and I don't actually care about discussing with someone who holds this anti intellectual position. Cheers. See you in 2028, hopefully with a better candidate.

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u/currogator 6d ago edited 6d ago

No, making complicity with genocide a precondition for voting Democratic gave us Trump. It would have been nice if the DNC had taken this election seriously and not demoralized and alienated potential voters.

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u/The_Pandalorian California 5d ago

It would have been nice if voters weren't fucking morons and now Gaza pays the price for their fucking idiocy.

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u/Enterprise-DeezNuts 5d ago edited 5d ago

Have you ever thought that the Democratic party's near-universal and unconditional support for vaporizing Palestinian babies in 2024 might have undermined your claims that Dems are antifascist and pro human? (This is rhetorical, I know that thought has likely never even crossed your mind despite being incredibly obvious)

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u/The_Pandalorian California 5d ago

Have you ever thought that the Democratic party's near-universal and unconditional support for vaporizing Palestinian babies in 2024

And there's where I refuse to take you seriously. Your rhetoric is just insane and I'm not going to entertain it.

I'm also gonna block you, because you're not worth my time.

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u/currogator 5d ago

Gaza was already paying for Democratic idiocy. Whatever made you people think that forcing people to be comfortable with genocide was the path to victory? And of course no one in the leadership will ever be held accountable for this disastrous set of decisions.

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u/Enterprise-DeezNuts 5d ago

It's funny how all my life I was told "Dems are the ones who hold their party leaders accountable for doing bad things" only to watch them make excuses for funding a genocide

3

u/The_Pandalorian California 5d ago

Man, we can do this all fucking day.

Democrats were better for Gaza. We got Trump, who is far, far, far (beyond far) worse because y'all couldn't fucking see reason.

2

u/Sqkerg Hawaii 6d ago

“If he did good thing, then why wasn’t EVERYTHING he did good?”

This is a child’s thought process.

Also that’s even accepting the premise that he “pushed” Biden on you. Biden won the primary then the general election, that’s the democratic process, even if you don’t like it.

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u/iscreamuscreamweall 5d ago

They weren’t in their anarchist phase, they were in middle school