r/politics • u/Particular_Log_3594 • 6d ago

No Paywall Obama: Israel 'took the land' from Palestinians, 'ceded moral ground' in Gaza

https://www.jpost.com/international/article-911851
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u/walkallover1991 District Of Columbia 6d ago

I'm sorry but statements like this give me "one day everyone will have been against this" vibes.

As President, Obama opposed Palestine's bid for full UN member status and then later also opposed their bid to non-member observer state status. His administration also worked to block Palestinian efforts to pursue charges against Israel at the ICC.

He continued doing the Democrat song and dance regarding settlement expansion, but expansion continued throughout his Presidency. The U.S. abstained from a UNSC vote on settlement expansion.

You can't be against settlement expansion while simultaneously sending military aid to Israel, protecting Israel on the international arena, and not sanctioning high-ranking Israeli leaders.

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u/ManiaGamine American Expat 6d ago edited 5d ago

People really need to understand that a President is normally supposed to align with the positions and policies of the country itself, which is to put it simply. Pro-Israel. That's simply the American position. No matter what a President's personal views are, the overall position of America is that Israel is an ally.

A President (at least a Democratic one) can't go against that. If you want the position on Israel to change you need to swap out the Congressional politicians, not the President.

In other words, we decry Trump for doing outrageous things that no President should be doing... yet fault Obama for not doing that.

Edit: Also, I am not saying that America should support Israel or that I would (I absolutely don't, they're practically Nazis at this point) just that the American official position is that they are an ally, if not the closest ally America has. It shouldn't be but it is.

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u/lettersvsnumbers 5d ago

“Pro-Israel. That’s simply the American position.”

This is simply false. In 2026, 56% of Americans want less/no military aid.

In 2012, under Obama, 38% of Americans opposed aid, which is still significant: hardly a unanimous “American position.”

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u/BigDaddy0790 5d ago

Opposing aid does not mean “Israel not an ally”.

People would probably also oppose aid to Canada just because no one likes giving money away.

But historically and in general, Israel and US have always been allied on foreign politics.

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u/lettersvsnumbers 5d ago edited 5d ago

Read the link. Americans currently rate Israel as 44 (100 is bff, 0 is war), Saudi Arabia is 41 and China is 39. Iran in the same poll is a 23.

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u/BigDaddy0790 5d ago

Not shocking for today considering the past few years, but that has never been the case historically and is a new development. Certainly hasn’t been the case during Obama.

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u/VengefulAncient 5d ago

What average people think isn't necessary the country's position. Those people don't have the education or the access to the information that government officials do - that's who decides the actual position, not someone who watched a bunch of Russia-funded TikTok videos and fell for all the bullshit in them because they have zero understanding of the world outside the US. And so far, they've proven woefully inadequate to decide anything, because when given the power to do so, they elected Trump.

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u/ManiaGamine American Expat 5d ago

This is simply false. In 2026, 56% of Americans want less/no military aid.

That's not how the American system works though is it? The people elect representatives to Congress. Those representatives set the position of America. That position is extremely pro-Israel.

In other words, the actual position of the country does not have to nor has it often ever consistently aligned with what the majority of Americans want. Consistently being the operative word there. It doesn't matter if you get a politician or group of politicians in for a cycle or two that reflect the will of the majority of Americans if they can be hamstrung by another part of the government which is what tends to happen, especially in the modern era.

So yeah, the American position isn't set by the people, it never has been. Not directly anyway, which is what would be required to reflect the polling you just mentioned.

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u/VengefulAncient 5d ago

If you want the position on Israel to change you need to swap out the Congressional politicians

No, you'd need to change the actual reality. Or suffer a massive loss of geopolitical and economic power. Because this position isn't a choice, it's a direct consequence of objective state of the world.

they're practically Nazis at this point

Lmfao, someone has eaten up all the Russian-backed propaganda.

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u/Adventurous_Drama291 5d ago

Israel could disappear into nothingness tonight and the average American would literally experience nothing different in their daily life. The size of US trade with Israel is like less than a single percentage point of US trade with the foreign world. Sure there are some Israeli firms here and there supplying little parts of the tech chain, but their place would quickly be filled by domestic or European firms. The idea that the US gains a massive amount of geopolitical or economic power from Israel is a hilarious delusion.

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u/VengefulAncient 5d ago

If it was a delusion, US would have ditched Israel long ago like they ditch their other allies. It's not about trade. It's about power projection and keeping global adversaries at bay. Do you know what the world will be like if Russia and China have full control over the Middle East?

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u/Adventurous_Drama291 5d ago

You understand nothing about the Middle East if you think that without Israel, Russia and China would dominate. Go look at the list of countries with US bases in the region. Go look at the list of countries that receive foreign aid from the US.

The reason why the US hasn't ditched Israel is that the US political establishment is full of people who are literally paid by organizations like AIPAC to support Israel, and who are beholden to them to win elections. You can see how quickly the support for Israel is dying now that AIPAC funding is becoming toxic.

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u/VengefulAncient 5d ago

And how well have those countries done against Iran during the current conflict? Did they help the US in any substantial way? Managed to hit any Iranian assets? No and no. Only Israel can do that.

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u/Adventurous_Drama291 5d ago

"Oh yeah? How would the US fare in the stupid war that they started at our behest and which every expert said would be a fucking stupid idea?" You are such pathetic people.

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u/VengefulAncient 4d ago

Iran started that war when they supplied Russia with Shahed drones.

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u/Adventurous_Drama291 4d ago

No they didn't. Trump started this entirely useless and stupid war that has been "offered" to every US president since Bush by Netanyahu. Israel has wanted this war since the 90s. Trump was just the only stooge to decide to spend taxpayer money and waste human lives on the stupidest war in history

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u/VengefulAncient 4d ago

They did not what? There's countless evidence and open admission that they indeed did supply Russia with drones. That is an act of war against the entire West. Iranian regime needs to be removed, just like all of Russia's other allies.

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u/ManiaGamine American Expat 5d ago

No, you'd need to change the actual reality.

What? That's like asserting that what Israel is doing has to happen. That's absurd.

Or suffer a massive loss of geopolitical and economic power.

What are you even talking about here?

Because this position isn't a choice, it's a direct consequence of objective state of the world.

See my previous point. If you assert that the way things are is because they have to be that way despite it being very obvious why it is the way it is and there being plenty of pathways out of it then you're simply pretending that a choice isn't a choice so that you don't have to face it.

Lmfao, someone has eaten up all the Russian-backed propaganda.

Odd, didn't you just mention "actual reality"? Such as the fact that Netanyahu and Ben-Gvir are quite openly trying to wipe out the Palestinian people? You know who else tried to wipe out an entire people? The Nazis.