r/politics • u/Particular_Log_3594 • 6d ago

No Paywall Obama: Israel 'took the land' from Palestinians, 'ceded moral ground' in Gaza

https://www.jpost.com/international/article-911851
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u/ReneDiscard Illinois 6d ago

When you think about it it's pretty insane (and overdue) for a former president to finally say this.

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u/lateformyfuneral 6d ago edited 6d ago

In 2011, he caused some upset in Israel when he said, what is also the international community’s position, that Israel has to return to 1967 borders (i.e all settlements and occupation in the West Bank are illegal)

https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna43091459

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u/kylebisme 6d ago

He really pissed them off on his way out of office in 2016 when he chose to not veto United Nations Security Council Resolution 2334 condemning Israeli colonization of Palestinian territory.

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u/StunningCloud9184 5d ago

As usual people think dems are bad but find out they were in the right all along.

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u/cptjeff 5d ago

Obama was always pretty sympathetic to the Palestinians but felt constrained by the politics of the issue.

That was not the case with Joe Biden, who was hardline zionist through and through. Obama would have reacted extremely differently to Israel's genocide than Biden did.

Democrats, like other groups, are not one thing. Obama is different than Biden is different than Clinton is different from Carter (who caused a political earthquake in 2006 when he used the word "apartheid" when zero political figures even dared to challenge Israel in even the smallest ways). The individual matters.

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u/ghost_finger 5d ago

I don’t think this was true. Obama didn’t have to deal with an Israel as aggressively genocidal as they became under Biden and Biden did try to get them to chill, he just failed and didn’t push hard enough

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u/Ivence 5d ago

Other presidents in the past had no issue "getting them to chill." You threaten the money and they back off, biden spent his career supporting zionism and he made some lip service to it while making no actual effort.

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u/Cream253Team Washington 5d ago

Tough to threaten the money being sent to Israel when voters keep handing Congress to Republicans every other election.

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u/squeezymarmite Europe 5d ago

Who needs Republicans to support Israel when you have Schumer, Jeffries, Pelosi, and about two dozen other Democrats who act like it's their only job.

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u/Tyranitardis 5d ago

Quick question. Who was the President and held Congress to allow it when Israel got the US to start a wildly unpopular war with Iran?

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u/voodoodahl 5d ago

The lefts solution was to help give power to people who not only support Israel unerringly but will deport and imprison people protesting Israeli genocide. As usual their poser principals made everything worse.

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u/elihu 5d ago

Republicans actually blocked funding aid to both Israel and Ukraine for about 9 months during Biden's term. They did it for a petty reason, that they wanted Biden to look bad so that Democrats would lose in 2024. It worked, unfortunately.

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u/zefy_zef 5d ago

Well, also Democrats. AIPAC gives money to both sides of the aisle. Republicans are worse, obviously, but we need to hold our own to account as well.

I think it needs to made incredibly obvious who accepts money from israel so that people can make an informed choice. I know they have to declare it, but they should be made to proclaim it. Maybe them wear fucking nascar jackets.

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u/EvilTables 5d ago

Not really. He was the president, he could have certainly threatened a lot more. Instead he pretty much looked the other way.

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u/ColdSteveStoneAustin 5d ago

Yeah well, somehow Americans made it worse than even that.

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u/[deleted] 5d ago

[deleted]

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u/dooooonut 5d ago

Netanyahu said something along those lines. Didn't take any action though.

But we can trust what he say, not like he would ever tell barefaced lies.

All while demanding that his bought and paid for goons vote to integrate America's military with Israel.

I suppose if a $1.5 trillion a year budget becomes half isreals, then the billions in annual "aid" is small potatoes

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u/RobCoxxy 5d ago

Why are we pretending Biden did anything

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u/TruthHistorical7515 5d ago

He approved weapons export to Israel

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u/RobCoxxy 5d ago

Yep. He did absolutely nothing to dissuade Israel from genocide or war crimes.

Former Israeli ambassador, Michael Herzog, made a startling admission about Biden’s support: “God did the State of Israel a favour that Biden was the president during this period. We fought [in Gaza] for over a year and the administration never came to us and said, ‘ceasefire now.’ It never did. And that’s not to be taken for granted.” His remarks encapsulated a broader sentiment that the White House gave Benjamin Netanyahu all the political space he needed to execute the military offensive, which has claimed the lives of more than 52,000 Palestinians, mainly women and children.

Sauce

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u/Specific-Parsnip9001 5d ago

You mean weapons embargo? The Trump admin lifted the embargo that the Biden admin placed. It wasn't a full embargo, just stopped them from getting our biggest bombs, but that's certainly better than nothing and a hell of a lot better than lifting it like Trump did.

Palestinians were ironically only hurt more by the "genocide Joe" rhetoric because it led to another Trump term.

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u/elihu 5d ago

Because he doesn't post AI slop of the resort he wants to build on ethnically-cleansed Palestinian territory. He also had that temporary dock built and blocked deliveries of 2,000 pound bombs to Israel for a time.

People care about performative gestures even when they don't significantly impact the situation. Biden acts "presidential" and that's good enough for a lot of people.

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u/NeonArlecchino California 5d ago

That dock was only around long enough for israeli terrorists to pose as aid workers and massacre nearly 300 Palestinians while wounding almost 700 more to retrieve four prisoners. It was barely operational for the time it was deployed, barely brought in any aid, and disappeared shortly after the massacre. Multiple human rights organizations wanted to investigate how it was used for the massacre and whether it was directly assisting it or just being used as a shield for israeli terrorists to deploy and extract from/near, but it was dismantled before any investigation could be completed.

That temporary dock likely killed more Palestinians than it pretended/tried to help.

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u/rdxxx 5d ago

biden LET them be this way assured netanyahum of unconditional support, unrestricted military aid, political cover is what enables israel to do any military action

israels action always were genocidal and aggressive

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u/DangerousCyclone 5d ago

Biden didn't really try. His attempts to restrain them were symbolic at best, but he was less tough on them than Trump has been, and Trump nominated the most over the top Zionist ambassador we've seen yet.

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u/Specific-Parsnip9001 5d ago

he was less tough on them than Trump has been

Trump lifted the partial weapons embargo placed by the Biden admin and then posted AI videos of him and Bibi chilling on a new Trump resort on the Gaza strip. You undercover MAGAts aren't as subtle as you think you are, you ain't fooling anyone.

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u/ColdSteveStoneAustin 5d ago

What are you talking about? Trump is actively backing Israel, he's accelerated weapons supply, he a actively promotes genocide in bold faced language. He is actively against the UN and human rights orgs.

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u/StunningCloud9184 5d ago

Obama was always pretty sympathetic to the Palestinians but felt constrained by the politics of the issue.

I mean biden literally returned the aid that trump cancelled in his first term right when he got in office lol.

That was not the case with Joe Biden, who was hardline zionist through and through. Obama would have reacted extremely differently to Israel's genocide than Biden did.

ehh probably. deal the hand youre dealt. Hamas did the biggest terrorist attack in israel history and then got stomped.

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u/ColdSteveStoneAustin 5d ago

That's fascist bullshit.

Israel had been attacking Palestinian months before the attack and their response was disproportionate and their MANY and ongoing war crimes absolutely unacceptable.

Get your information from human rights organisations instead of wherever you are.

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u/StunningCloud9184 5d ago

Yea sorry hamas attack was disproportionate. It wasnt a “response” it was a terrorists attack that killed 1200 people.

The response was exactly what hamas expected and wanted

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u/ColdSteveStoneAustin 5d ago

Yes, it was a terrorist attack that killed many innocent people.

It is not ok to kill people.

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u/FeuerwerkFreddi 5d ago

That’s just one of the issues in a two party system. Take Germany, Sanders could possibly join our far left party while other ppl in the democratic party would fit right in the conservative right wing party (even more so in Merkel era CDU) yet they are in the same party in the USA

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u/kylebisme 5d ago

Obama was far from right all along, he vetoed a similar resolution in 2011, and merely abstained from the one in 2016 rather than voting in favor of it like everyone else on the Security Council, and just a few months prior to that he pledged 38 billion in weapons to Israel.

And aside from his dealings with Israel, he killed hundreds of civilians with careless drone strikes, sewed [horrible instability in Libya that continues to this day](theintercept.com/drone-papers/the-assassination-complex/), persecuted government whistleblowers, and oversaw the brutal suppression of the Occupy Wall Street protests.

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u/korben2600 Arizona 5d ago

Obama did the exact same thing as Bush with Iraq and Trump with Iran, going for a decapitation strike, deposing and couping and permanently destabilizing Libya for its oil, only he did it quietly and competently so apparently all is forgiven. Just standard fare US imperialism meant to drive profits for Exxon, Chevron, and ConocoPhillips.

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u/Allydarvel 5d ago

You just goiing to miss out the civil war and civilian massacres then?

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u/Tyranitardis 5d ago

Libya was ran by a personalist dictator. Iraq and Iran were not.

In a lot of cases, the former type of country improves when the dictator dies.

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u/kylebisme 5d ago

Saddam was very much a personalist dictator.

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u/Tyranitardis 5d ago

He was the public-facing figurehead (similar to Xi Jinpeng, Mao Zedong, etc.) of the entire party apparatus.

Had Saddam died off ages prior from any reason but his party was still in power, nothing changes.

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u/kylebisme 5d ago edited 5d ago

He'd hollowed out the party to make it his tool and had he died naturally he'd set up his son to replace him. It's easy to find scholarly sources which identify him as a personalist dictator because he was a classic example of exactly that.

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u/Tyranitardis 5d ago

The party could have replaced him easily. It wouldn't have mattered.

A Vlasic example? Dude's a fucking pickle now?

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u/kylebisme 5d ago

It's called a typo, and again, scholarly sources disagree with you.

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u/Tyranitardis 5d ago

Your "scholarly sources", Mr. Private Profile, is... let me google that for you? That's a scholarly source?

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u/TearsFallWithoutTain 5d ago

You're being extremely divisive for a one month old account.

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u/Tyranitardis 5d ago

Define "divisive".

I'm not allowed to talk because my account isn't old enough? O wise dictator, when am I allowed to talk?

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u/StunningCloud9184 5d ago

Yea pobodys nerfect lol.

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u/torrinage Oregon 5d ago

At least murderface embraced it

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u/ColdSteveStoneAustin 5d ago

Between the both sides rhetoric and the praise of extremists you clowns don't even need Russian bots to be fasc.

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u/DueVisit1410 5d ago

The first paragraph is good added nuance.

But the second paragraph is pretty standard fare for US presidens/governments. The drone thing is hardly the first time US interventionism has caused civilians collatoral damage. Suppression of protests and persecution of government whistleblowers is also standard fare in many other US administrations.

And it's important to remember that intervention in Lybia wasn't solely the US. It was several NATO members, with a resolution from the UN security council (10 in favor, 5 abstaining).
It happened in part because people protesting their government were brutally and muderously supressed by state forces and all of this was being shared worldwide via social media.

While in hindsight the intervention did not help, I'm not sure if not interfering would not have led to horrible instability. The civil war had already started at this point and Gaddafhi did not seem overly concerned with civilian casualties.

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u/Ursa_Solaris 5d ago

Obama is one dem, most dems have been lockstep with Israel until the last couple years.

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u/fordat1 5d ago

Also Obama didnt mess with any aid or anything like that. The examples are simply UN resolutions and a comment

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u/StunningCloud9184 5d ago edited 5d ago

Obama is one dem, most dems have been lockstep with Israel until the last couple years.

For sure. But most people werent sympathetic to hamas until recently. And even if israel had cooled it after a week or two we would have all moved on.

But instead fell into bibis trap to help elect trump.

You could see the difference in aid to gaza cancelled under trump. Available under biden. Cancelled under trump again.

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u/SecularMisanthropy 5d ago

most people were sympathetic to hamas until recently

Wha...? The F are you talking about? Who, exactly, do you think has been expressing sympathy for Hamas "until recently"?

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u/StunningCloud9184 5d ago

Wha...? The F are you talking about? Who, exactly, do you think has been expressing sympathy for Hamas "until recently"?

My bad. They werent sympathetic until recently.

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u/Ursa_Solaris 5d ago

But instead fell into bibis trap to help elect trump.

Why did the democratic party fall into that trap, then? Doesn't seem like it was very good strategy.

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u/StunningCloud9184 5d ago

Why did the democratic party fall into that trap, then? Doesn't seem like it was very good strategy.

Meh. Why are most countries in the world shifting right? Billionaire owned social media is stronger than good policy lol.

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u/Ursa_Solaris 5d ago

You are all over this thread calling voters stupid and rubbing suffering in other people's faces, but when asked why the Dems fucked up you throw your hands up and go "ehhhh waddaya gonna do, yanno?"

Get off social media before it rots you completely. You clearly can't handle it.

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u/StunningCloud9184 5d ago

Lol well its pretty easy that leftist dont understand geopolitics other than israel bad, russia good. Its why they end up voting the same as maga.

You think you werent brainwashed by social media, they did research that social media explicitly boosted things to hurt dems like on tik tok.

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u/ColdSteveStoneAustin 5d ago

Because you're handshaking the rhetoric?

It's literally our choice.

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u/StunningCloud9184 5d ago

Lmao. Ah yes everyone in the world is wrong except you. Its totally not billionaires being bad for reasons.

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u/ColdSteveStoneAustin 5d ago

What are you talking about.

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u/ColdSteveStoneAustin 5d ago

So be lockstep with him them. Or find someone else you support.

It's time to win.

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u/Ursa_Solaris 5d ago

You need to tell the Dems it's time to win. You can't change millions of people.

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u/the_Cheese999 5d ago

Dudes will give Dems credit for doing meaningless stuff on the way out lmao.

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u/StunningCloud9184 5d ago edited 5d ago

Like giving healthcare to millions of people saving lives lol. Forgiving 200 billion in student loans. Saving medicare 100 billion by negotiating with pharma. FUnding the IRS to go after rich people. Giving vets cancer care. Largest infrastructure bill since FDR. Brought manufacturing boom back to america. Went after monopolies.

Or not cutting usaid saving millions of lives.

Whats that you dont care about the 700,000 dead children that would have been prevented by dems?

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u/aylio 5d ago

DSA does this all the time too. They're currently protesting Mamdani as a genocide lover and zionist to force him to meaninglessly fire the police commissioner over an unrelated issue with ICE. A police commissioner who should be fired for a different unrelated issue but focusing on that would be meaningful. Can't have that.

Really every political faction does this though. Give real criticism. Not empty snark.

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u/StunningCloud9184 5d ago

Leftist do this hugely.

Everything theyve glazed him for has been done by liberals before or they would have protested as not good enough.

Oh hes doing universal daycare, oh wait its only 1000 kids of 400,000 kids in nyc. If it was a dem you would hear “not good enough” under manddani its “looks politicians can make a difference”

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u/berniestness 5d ago

Meaningless stuff is their bread and butter. Oh look the republicans moved something, we will put it back. Republicans move it again. Oh look republicans moved something, we will move it back…. And in and on it goes.

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u/Specific-Parsnip9001 5d ago

Funding USAID instead of letting a million kids die? "Meaningless"

Don't worry, brother. I'm sure whatever policies you want are meaningless as well. Nihilism is super cool and useful.

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u/berniestness 5d ago

Nihilism is super cool and useful and blah blah blah

I guess pretending billionaires, corporations and Israel doesn’t own all of them (demoncrats) is better?

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u/Specific-Parsnip9001 5d ago

I notice how you didn't respond to the point about letting a million kids die. Interesting.

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u/berniestness 5d ago

It's true. Either all democrats are always only preventing millions of kids from dying or that thing I said. It can never be both!

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u/sir_mrej Washington 5d ago

People dont like small measures and dont like looking things up themselves. Dems need to either do bigger gestures or need to trumpet their tiniest awesome things from the highest peaks.

IIRC Biden did get SOME student loans cancelled. The Edu Sec shouldve done a whirlwind tour claiming success for those people and berating the supreme court for the rest.

Dems are SO bad at advertising themselves.

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u/ColdSteveStoneAustin 5d ago

Is that why you're talking them down instead of talking them up?

The Democrats have a lot to offer if you want it.

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u/StunningCloud9184 5d ago edited 5d ago

IIRC Biden did get SOME student loans cancelled. The Edu Sec shouldve done a whirlwind tour claiming success for those people and berating the supreme court for the rest.

200 billion loans is small? with an attempt at 400 billion more that the supreme court shutdown because people didnt show up for hilary in 2016? I mean less also ignore that no one paid interest for student loans his whole presidency and introduced the SAVE plan that fixed many of the problems (runaway interest, lower payments, allowed for more disposable income)

Wonder why the discourse was “those student loan people should pay back their loans its unfair” in the media then.

Dems are SO bad at advertising themselves.

The social media and media are all billionaire owned that hate dems. Dems simply relied on the news to tell the truth while republicans have systematically created an echosystem of propaganda using billionaire money. Dems used to rely on unions as the money box to fight back but theyre culturally maga now and dont have that kind of money.

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u/pepepopo1237 5d ago

Obama said some pretty words and then vetoed anything that would make material difference for Palestinians, like UN membership.

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u/voodoodahl 5d ago

Because leftists never stop messaging for fascists. That's where these common misconceptions come from.

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u/StunningCloud9184 5d ago

Crazy how the horseshoe theory ends up with maga and leftist on the same side so often.

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u/AccurateJerboa 5d ago

Russia bombards both with propaganda 

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u/ChilledParadox 5d ago

I think most people criticize the dems messaging and abysmal media personalities and rhetoric more than their actual policies. They tend to give the appearance of not caring or capitulating when it matters. It’s only the young ones like AOC that seem to gras how important getting your own truth out there is nowadays.

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u/StunningCloud9184 5d ago

Again people will hate on dems no matter what. The right hates them no matter what. The left criticize them for street cred. The news both side every issue to pretend to be unbiased.

Lets take mamdani in NYC.

If a dem had said I’m doing universal child care but then only gave 1% of kids childcare it would be considered bad. With Mamdani they glaze him for it and says politicians get things done.

If a dem had taken from union pensions and gone against unions (mamdani has gone against the transport workers unions) they would be considered anti working class. Leftist suddenly just say thats smart.

So anything that hurts dems will be amplified like mamdani doing normal lib things like fixing potholes that every normal lib does (chicago mayor fixed 300K potholes to 0 applause). Theyll say dems dont do anything but look at mamdani doing stuff. Dems are bad etc

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u/ChilledParadox 5d ago

No it’s more like if all of a sudden Mamdani said he was going to sell a huge plot land to the Koch Brothers and allow them to build a data center out of left field after announcing and building his platform on not doing that.

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u/StunningCloud9184 5d ago

No it’s more like if all of a sudden Mamdani said he was going to sell a huge plot land to the Koch Brothers and allow them to build a data center out of left field after announcing and building his platform on not doing that.

Remember when biden forgave 200 billion in student loans and tried to forgive 400 billion more and leftist said who cares?

Remember when biden had the largest green energy bill in the entire world supercharging green energy worldwide and leftist said who cares?

Remember when biden got the largest infrastructure bill since FDR passed and leftist said who cares?

I remember when leftist used to care about things like student loans, green energy and infrastructure before gaza became the only thing they could virtue signal about.

If it had biden instead of bernie accomplishing half of what biden did they would have been worshiping him. Same with regular old liberal policy mamdani

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u/ChilledParadox 5d ago

No, I remember thinking, “this is a good start, but not nearly enough yet, hopefully we can keep it going.” Then we didn’t keep it going. And people will say, “well, that’s because the courts are stacked against us!” But then I’ll point you to Obama not electing a replacement when he could have. And the. People will say, “well, McConnell blocked him!” And then I’ll point you to when Trump did literally the same thing when democrats had the opportunity to play hardball and they confirmed the judges. So in the end, how is that not still the responsibility of the democrats?

Republicans are fucking awful, you can always expect them to be awful, they’re like a storm, they exist and they’re awful so you have to prepare your belongings so when the storm comes through your house doesn’t get destroyed. Democrats seem to allow the storm to continually destroy their *our* house and that’s what is frustrating.

I respect Biden for how he handled Trumps post Covid economic disaster and managed to allow our economy to recover with some of the lowest inflation across the globe. Yes we had inflation, but everyone did, and we had a lot less than some, so I think he did a great job.

I’m a leftist, I’m essentially a social democrat. So don’t put words in my mouth. My opinions, leftist opinions, aren’t what you ever see anywhere, and trust me it’s fucking frustrating.

But do you know what Biden did do that IS frustrating? He ran again. After he got elected the first time on a PLATFORM of not running again. He said one term. Then he ran his one term. And you know what he did? He ran again. When he was not in any fucking sort of condition to do so. There was no plan for his successor. Kamala didn’t go through a normal primary. Instead Biden got weekend at Bernied into running again then having to drop out after embarrassing the entire party in a national debate and having to literally nepobaby Kamala into the fucking nomination.

Like this was a fucking serious election. How are you going to drop the ball on something so big? I don’t give a fuck if you win the small battles if every fucking important battle you show up in a clown outfit singing kumbaya.

Republicans are a legitimate blight on the country. I expect the people getting elected into the highest positions to be taking it seriously when it matters, and they don’t. They give lip service when it’s easy but as soon as something is required of them they don’t show up.

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u/StunningCloud9184 5d ago edited 5d ago

No, I remember thinking, “this is a good start, but not nearly enough yet, hopefully we can keep it going.” Then we didn’t keep it going. And people will say, “well, that’s because the courts are stacked against us!” But then I’ll point you to Obama not electing a replacement when he could have. And the. People will say, “well, McConnell blocked him!” And then I’ll point you to when Trump did literally the same thing when democrats had the opportunity to play hardball and they confirmed the judges. So in the end, how is that not still the responsibility of the democrats?

Lmao so right off the bat youre simply uninformed or lying. The dems never had the senate under trump. So no just no. Mcconnell had the senate under obamas last 2 years which stopped the supreme court judge from being appointed. Is that what youre referring to? So right off comparing things that didnt happen.

Its like people pretend republicans get everything they want but dems dont by some magic thing. The only legislation republicans have passed in 6 years is tax cuts for the rich. They didnt repeal and replace obamacare. They didnt get a borderwall funded. etc etc.

And the stuff stopped coming cause guess what. No one showed up to vote for dems in 2010 and gave the house to republicans for THE ENTIRE REST OF OBAMAS presidency. We have only had 4 years in the past 26 years where dems could get anything done. And in those 4 years we did amazing things.

Republicans are fucking awful, you can always expect them to be awful, they’re like a storm, they exist and they’re awful so you have to prepare your belongings so when the storm comes through your house doesn’t get destroyed. Democrats seem to allow the storm to continually destroy their our house and that’s what is frustrating.

So you lack the accountability on them. We call that murcs law. Blame everything on democrats.

But do you know what Biden did do that IS frustrating? He ran again. After he got elected the first time on a PLATFORM of not running again. He said one term. Then he ran his one term. And you know what he did? He ran again. When he was not in any fucking sort of condition to do so. There was no plan for his successor. Kamala didn’t go through a normal primary. Instead Biden got weekend at Bernied into running again then having to drop out after embarrassing the entire party in a national debate and having to literally nepobaby Kamala into the fucking nomination.

I mean thats fair. He however never said he would be just one term. He said he would be a transitional president. If you look into it everyone around him was surprised by the debate performance. It was nothing nefarious. He simply had a bad night. Hes been around since. the cnn dudes book was basically debunked. The crazy thing is how simply the far left literally regurgitates the same propaganda that the far right puts out. They take it hook line and sinker

Lmao nepobaby kamala? You know she ran for statewide office in california and won multiple times right. She was pretty much a shoe in for biden if he dropped.

Like this was a fucking serious election. How are you going to drop the ball on something so big? I don’t give a fuck if you win the small battles if every fucking important battle you show up in a clown outfit singing kumbaya.

He played the hand dealt. a democrat that literally delivered the best economy in the entire world SHOULD win reelection. But social media makes that no longer the case.

Republicans are a legitimate blight on the country. I expect the people getting elected into the highest positions to be taking it seriously when it matters, and they don’t. They give lip service when it’s easy but as soon as something is required of them they don’t show up.

I say this same thing about leftist. They dont show up when theres an actual threat to the country like trump. They did the same thing in 2016 and 2024. I thought they had learned the first time.