r/politics • u/Particular_Log_3594 • 6d ago

No Paywall Obama: Israel 'took the land' from Palestinians, 'ceded moral ground' in Gaza

https://www.jpost.com/international/article-911851
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u/walkallover1991 District Of Columbia 6d ago

I'm sorry but statements like this give me "one day everyone will have been against this" vibes.

As President, Obama opposed Palestine's bid for full UN member status and then later also opposed their bid to non-member observer state status. His administration also worked to block Palestinian efforts to pursue charges against Israel at the ICC.

He continued doing the Democrat song and dance regarding settlement expansion, but expansion continued throughout his Presidency. The U.S. abstained from a UNSC vote on settlement expansion.

You can't be against settlement expansion while simultaneously sending military aid to Israel, protecting Israel on the international arena, and not sanctioning high-ranking Israeli leaders.

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u/Actor412 Washington 5d ago

That's what Obama always was, a politician who was willing to work within the framework of the establishment. The establishment in the US has always been keeping Israel happy. He's never been one to 'go his own way,' or find ways around precedent to force through innovation or reform. He knew how to play the game by the rules, and he was very good at it. That allowed him to become president, but it also meant that he could be outmaneuvered by the Rs who simply stopped obeying the rules.

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u/Engrish_Major 6d ago

Cool. And we should want people to change for the better. The best accountability is changed behavior.

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u/sxp101 6d ago

Its easy to change when there's no accountability. He was in a position  Of power and able to do something about the stuff he's talking about it's not like all this stuff is new. it was going on then just as it's going on now. It's just now he doesn't have to worry about donors and campaigns. and so feels free to talk. 

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u/LandruCasey 5d ago

Less than 1% of 1% of people talking about Israel’s actions now was talking about it when Obama was in office.

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u/Engrish_Major 6d ago

Have you considered he didn’t have the same mindset? I’m not saying he’s not responsible. I’m saying he changed his mind.

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u/InternationalClub544 5d ago

Yeah, I mean...the overwhelming majority of people who are on the side of Palestine today, themselves stayed out of the conversation for so long.

Do you guys not remember the jokes? "Yeah, now go solve peace in the middle east". "And what are your opinions on Israel and Palestine?" These were things said tongue in cheek for as long as I can remember. People literally used to say this shit as a chuckle of "Holy shit, this issue is complicated and multifaceted."

But the genocide sitting before us, has become undeniable. And its mostly Netanyahu's actions that have matured the topic as much as it has in the last couple years.

If Obama had strong feelings on this topic while he was president, there would have been a significant portion of the country - even those that are now alligned with Palestine today - that would have called Obama anti-semetic from 2008-2016. And I know some of you are out there and wont admit it, but A LOT of you people did not have these strong opinions about Palestine during Obama's presidency, so don't act like you were always out in the streets fighting for Palestine.

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u/saera-targaryen 6d ago

Accountability is taking responsibility for your past actions, not just ignoring them and moving on. It would be accountability if he said "after having learned more, I regret my actions in support of Israel when I was president and want a free palestine" 

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u/Engrish_Major 6d ago

Fair. Let’s see his next move.

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u/Aggressive-Neck-3921 5d ago

Obama had about 10 years to do that, he hasn't he has been just as cucked to capital and israel. He was complicit and still is complicit, if he wasn't he would have been supporting different candidates. He is still the same neoliberal as when he was president part of the establishment.

Obama is put on a pedestal like he was that much different from bill clinton he wasn't he was a disappointment if you are a progressive and look at the policies he put through. Not sounding like a dumbass like trump makes people overestimate the positive impact of obama.

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u/Rapzid Texas 5d ago

Christ all mighty. Well I hope one day Obama says the saera-targaryen approved sequence of words to pass the purity test.

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u/n16r4 6d ago

Oh so did Obama come out and say: "I made horrible mistakes on the issue of Palestine, please put your support behind the people who've been calling this shit out for decades, here are some people who vehemently opposed me back then please give them your support".

No because he doesn't think it was a mistake, he has not changed his behavior, his role right now is opposition, that's why he critizises the behavior now. This is not accountability, this is ass covering at best at worst a cynical attempt to direct anger over Palestine predominantly at "political opponents", aka Israel never did this when Obama was in charge blablabla.

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u/Engrish_Major 6d ago

Valid anger. I share the same. I just don’t know how one can be better without allowing better.

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u/SapientTrashFire 5d ago
  1. Literally apologizing
  2. Putting his money where his mouth is
  3. Funding and supporting candidates and organizations helping Palestine
  4. Just actually going there because he's a former president

Like he can do so so many things, but because he said the words then he "did" the good deed so now he can be king of democrats again and everything is cool.

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u/n16r4 6d ago

Because he isn't better as a person, when a grifter changes their tune it's not because they had a change of heart but because the grift changed.

If a king recognizes that killing his peasants also harms himself and now says they should be worked to death over a longer period of time, would you suck up to him and call him being better. Would you argue he is now fighting for the right thing. Not that Obama even did that much he kept his old position which just seems more reasonable compared to say Trump or Biden.

Going from killing 5 people to killing 1 is still doing bad, it is not "better", especially not if this "improvement" comes beacause you can't find 5 people to kill, you haven't changed at all, and you don't get: Why don't you let the murderer into your house his been killing fewer people of late.

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u/StabbyMcSwordfish 6d ago

Wait, Obama is a grifter now? Lol, People just use that word for anyone they don't like these days don't they? Anyway, no further reading of your slop is required.

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u/Engrish_Major 5d ago

How many lives did he save by capping the structural violence that was the health care system prior to Obamacare?

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u/SapientTrashFire 5d ago

About a quarter of the lives he was supposed to save with the healthcare plans that were initially proposed to him by instead proposing a plan that was cribbed entirely from the Heritage Foundation.

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u/saera-targaryen 4d ago

I think there's a valid version of allowing better here, but that Obama hasn't reached that level. I think my litmus test is if they pinpoint what they have done in the past that they now disagree with. Obama only speaks about current and future status which, to me, sounds more like he's trying to stay in good graces instead of genuinely change. 

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u/lvl4barbarian 5d ago

This isn't change, this is posturing.

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u/evilgigglefish I voted 6d ago

we should also want people who genuinely believe in what's right, not conveniently changing their beliefs as soon as american public opinion changes.

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u/Pantarus 5d ago

Wait what?

That's literally the whole point of elected government...the will of the people, or at least in theory the majority.

If the public want it one way...it's literally supposed to be the job of an elected official to listen to us.

Yes there has always been opposition. But it's only recently that it's become what I would say closer to the majority and readable as such.

As public opinion changes...I WANT my leader to consider and change if needed.

The flip side of that shit is a tyrant and you just HOPE they change their minds when public opinion shifts...a la Trump.

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u/theREALbombedrumbum 6d ago

I'm with you on holding people accountable in recognition of them being late to the party, but I worry that messaging like yours will do more closing of doors than opening. When we're trying so hard for more politicians to do the bare minimum why waste energy going after the ones who are starting to take their first steps? If anything we're showing the prominent figures who are on the fence that they'll get criticized for not having done it sooner

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u/PlsNoOlives 5d ago

Accountability is acutely necessary. Obama isnt ignorant or uninitiated, and these little too late concessions are classic and predicted. Liberalism is against every war but the current war, and happy to mourn the victims of their own aggression, but take no steps to prevent their deaths. Israel calls it "shoot and cry" and they explicitly sanction it. Obama led the worst drone campaigns in our history but somehow maintains a legacy as a peaceful president, and he's barely said a peep in 3 years of extermination-stage genocide in Gaza. We need to stop worrying about the optics and the messaging and lock in or all this incremental-ism is just enabling the fascism to keep setting charges. 

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u/-etuskoe- 5d ago

THANK YOU

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u/evilgigglefish I voted 6d ago

if we give them their flowers for taking a position they should have had from the beginning, we're giving them permission to keep being terrible because we'll always forgive them in the end. obama waiting to say this until well after his power and influence is gone means there is zero material affect this could possibly have other than slightly improve his own image.

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u/Immediate_Still5347 6d ago

His power and influence is certainly diminished but it’s not gone, he was president for two terms his actions and words still carry weight with a lot of voters. I agree he shouldn’t be lauded endlessly for this, I view him being comfortable saying this as more of sign that the wider electorate is opening up more to recognizing Israel’s evil and him saying this normalizes these beliefs amongst a wider population that may be more neutral on Israel/Palestine

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u/NaughtyCheffie I voted 6d ago

Guy has 30k comment karma and doesn't exist if you click through. Fake people aren't people.

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u/Penguinase 5d ago

they hide their comments/posts it's an option now for accounts

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u/ObiWanChronobi 6d ago

And they rightfully should be criticized for it. The longer they wait, the worse it is for them and the Palestinian people. So they better get off the fence now before they are tied to it.

These words from Obama are just words. When he had power he said one thing and did another with his power. Saying the same words now, without that power, is meaningless. Without acknowledging that he didn’t do enough, without an ounce of self-reflection, that isn’t accountability or atonement. Is it good that he’s saying this, sure, but it’s not even 1% of what is needed to make amends for his failures while in office.

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u/Half-deaf-mixed-guy 6d ago

Why do you think this statement is supposed to make amends for his failures and why do you only care about the failures after he's gone and not the positives. Its been 10 years since he was in office and Dem had full control for only the first 2 years (09-11) with Republicans preventing a majority of it holding the house for the rest of the term.

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u/ObiWanChronobi 6d ago

I don’t think this statement is meant to make amends for his failures and that’s my point. He doesn’t get laurels for saying similar things that he was saying while in power as he didn’t do anything to actually help them back then either. He’s never acknowledged that he could have done more and he’s had 10 years to own up to his mistakes.

He also didn’t need Congress to block weapons sales and transfers to foreign countries. They never had a veto-proof majority. So he had the power to affect changes his entire term in office.

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u/Idrinkbeereverywhere 6d ago

Uh, a representative government should reflect what the people want

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u/unclemilty420 6d ago

But Obama was never an Israel hawk. In fact, he had a frosty relationship with Netanyahu because he wasn't committed to unconditional support for Israel. His actions while in office were the result an insanely difficult tightrope he had to walk given previous American commitments and the existing consensus in the state department and on Capitol Hill that wouldn't change even if he had used his bully pulpit. Moreover, these comments are with respect to an event that occurred over six years after he was out of office.

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u/Daniel_The_Thinker 5d ago

I don't think Obama wasn't shackled by "previous American commitments" as much as he probably found Israel to be a troubling but ultimately valuable ally like other presidents before him.

I mean finding Bin Laden was a huge win for his administration and Israel did a lot of work helping American intelligence do that.

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u/BillyJoeMac9095 5d ago

Obama also never got anything to work with from Palestinians.

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u/porgy_tirebiter 6d ago

Obama changed his mind on gay rights and same sex marriage, in large part because of Biden. I’m okay with people changing their mind. I’m okay with people being open minded enough to give serious considerations to counter arguments.

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u/Engrish_Major 6d ago

Is there any other first action than contrition when one has made a mistake? Like, how are people supposed to grow if you don’t let them? I struggle with this too but ultimately it’s not about my ego — it’s about theirs.

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u/ObiWanChronobi 6d ago

Saying sorry or taking accountability for one’s actions that contributed to the problem are a great place to start.

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u/Zealousideal-Map9327 6d ago

That's not fair to Obama.

Nor is it even accurate.

Obama is risking his political capital by giving this statement.

Despite what internet echochambers would have you believe, Israel is not unpopular enough to be criticized without losing a chunk of your main moderate base.

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u/beornn2 Texas 6d ago

I agree with what you are saying, but I’m curious; what does he care about political capital at this point? He’s never going to hold another public office, and I’m not sure how much pull he has campaigning for others. I simply think he wants to be on the right side of history at this point.

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u/GrumpyCloud93 5d ago

He cares precisely for what he's doing now. He may not personally run for office, but his support and backing helps others, as long as people respect him. I note George W has been silent on much of what's going on with his party, speaking of respect from party...

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u/evilgigglefish I voted 6d ago

in 2021, 58% of americans supported israelis and 25% supported palestinians. in 2026, 36% support israelis and 41% support palestinians. make whatever conclusion you want with those numbers, but it's very easy to spot a shift in public opinion.

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u/BillyJoeMac9095 5d ago

Careful not to assume that it means folks are anti Israel, as per my comment above

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u/ObiWanChronobi 6d ago

Only 1/3 of Americans have a positive view of the Israeli government.

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u/spookynutz 6d ago

That isn't actionable information. Only 1/3 of Americans have a positive view of their own congress.

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u/halt-l-am-reptar 6d ago

“Only” as if a third isn’t an incredibly sizable chunk of the population. Especially when elections are usually incredibly close. Also it sure as shit wasn’t only 1/3 when he was in office.

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u/Adventurous_Salt 6d ago

Obama is risking his political capital by giving this statement.

What risk, he's retired. Will this risk his chances at making crappy Netflix documentaries or something?

Also, "political capital" isn't a think, it only exists so dems can "save" it by not doing anything useful.

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u/BillyJoeMac9095 5d ago

Indeed. Being against Israel's current actions and leadership is not the same as wanting to put an end to the nation.

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u/Towel4 5d ago

“Sorry, you’re not virtuous enough to earn MY vote”

Have you ever met, idk, any politician?

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u/naynaythewonderhorse 5d ago

You create an impossible situation where no politician is allowed to change under those circumstances. This country is literally never going to heal if we don’t start accepting people who own up to their mistakes.

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u/syzygyly 5d ago

What you're proposing require people believe in what's right the first time, every time. It is simply not feasible

I'm not saying Obama wasn't informed when it comes to this topic, but consier the larger nature of the criteria you're proposing

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u/[deleted] 6d ago

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u/notfeelany 6d ago

not conveniently changing their beliefs as soon as american public opinion changes.

This is a such cynical viewpoint on "politician listening to their voters".

Politicians listening to voters is actually good (and how it's supposed to work).

So do ppl want their politicians to listen to the voters or not? Because I thought everyone wanted their politician's position to change based on what the voters wanted.

If politicians are both attacked for adopting & not adopting policies by the same ppl, there's no incentive to listen/follow those same ppl.

We must reward politician who finally follow our positions with votes.

And Democrats deserved our votes even more given that they saved this country twice now from economic collapses due to covid and the great recession. We failed them and in doing so failed ourselves.

It's the Absolute Fact of US politics: The more people try to hold Democrats "accountable" (and only Democrats) for an issue, they will enable a Republican govt that will NEVER care about those concerns.

We the voters all must commit vote & elect Democrats now&forever without exception, and restore them to their RIGHTFUL places: veto-proof majorities in Congress and then the Presidency.

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u/SouthernAddress5051 6d ago

Obama didn't have to say anything at all, and he's not running for anything. The convenience would have been to say nothing

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u/murdolatorTM 6d ago

I agree and I hate when people gloss over that because they can't stomach their fav being criticized. But in fairness, of all the living presidents, Obama was allegedly the least cooperative with Israel. Which doesn't count for much, but still

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u/Exavion 5d ago

TBH thats how many people want their elected officials to behave. If they all see a new side of something and public opinion shifts, your representatives should do so as well unless they are privy to significant classified information that tells them otherwise. The alternative is being forced to wait for a new election to replace an official who doesn’t budge or is bound to their even slower moving party platform

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u/biz_student 6d ago

This is Obama’s schtick. He was anti gay marriage until the Supreme Court was ready to make it legal.

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u/halt-l-am-reptar 6d ago

People are allowed to change their views.

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u/biz_student 6d ago

It’s disingenuous when your opinion only changes when it’s a popular opinion to take

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u/BernieBrother4Biden 6d ago

No, we want to feel morally superior to the libs.

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u/voodoodahl 5d ago

They lost any ability to feel superior when they told people to sit home and let the fascists win. We're living in the reality they wished for.

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u/ThinkRegret7695 6d ago

It is incredible that so-called ''progressives'' from America do not see Obama as a war criminal and believe this change is genuine is insane, just ask anyone in the global south, especially Palestinians, whether they believe Obama is on their side now.

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u/Engrish_Major 6d ago

I think he’s committed war crimes and is regretful. I can walk and chew gum at the same time. You can too.

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u/ThinkRegret7695 6d ago

It’s essentially like arguing that a serial killer is regretful, even though he has never actually apologized for what he did, nor is he willing to face any punishment for it. Instead, a decade later, he just makes obvious statements like "murder is wrong" and yet, only people in one country in the entire world actually believe he’s being sincere

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u/notfeelany 5d ago

No one should for Obama is truly one of the best US presidents in the last 50 years.

Obama guided & saved this country from the ravages of the Great Recession.

Obama, Pelosi, and Reid have advanced the cause of universal health care in the US by passing the ACA.

Their JUST reward should have been continued control of Congress and Presidency.

It is us, we THE VOTERS who failed.

We the voters ensured that the only power Democrats have are writing strongly worded letters.

We have failed ourselves by re-electing Republicans again.

When we THE VOTERS kicked Democrats are kicked out of House during the Midterms that effectively stopped the fantastic, inspirational progress that Obama & Biden was making during their terms.

This is on us the voters to fix. Now more than ever, voting and electing Democrats is the correct choice 100% of the time.

Voting for Democrats truly are better than voting for Republicans & 3rd parties for every issue (economy, jobs, health care, civil rights, foreign policies, etc)

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u/playitoff 6d ago

That's not accountability, that's worming your way out of it and leaving the damage done. Which does nothing to discourage any politician from doing the same in the future.

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u/karpet_muncher 5d ago

Is it change? Or is it lip service? They know full well what's happening but to show any instance of being on the Palestinians side they fear will push the Jewish vote away

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u/9bpm9 6d ago

? He has no role in the Democratic party or the government. His words are meaningless.

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u/Engrish_Major 6d ago

You hear that folks? This guy. What’s his name? OBAMA. He has no clout.

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u/Inuyaki Europe 6d ago

Yeah, especially if it's still relatively early. It's not like he is saying this in 2040 after all is (hopefully) resolved for a long time.

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u/andysimberg 5d ago

Accountability means accepting you were wrong and made mistakes first

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u/lordcthulhu17 Colorado 5d ago

he's out of power this change in heart is relatively meaningless too little too late

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u/MaievSekashi 5d ago

Who cares about a politician who changes as soon as they lose power? There is no behaviour to change that matters.

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u/jrfoster01 5d ago

Just seems convenient that the opinion only changes when that person no longer has the power to do anything about it.

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u/fruitpunchsamurai619 4d ago

What is the point if they can simply appear progressive to win the race and then do nothing with it? We need people in power to do something about it.

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u/[deleted] 6d ago

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u/notfeelany 6d ago

Nonsense because Obama was one of the best presidents in the last 30 years. Obama saved this saved this country from the Great Recession. Obama, Pelosi, and Reid have advanced the cause of universal health care in the US by passing the ACA.

Obama/Biden/and the Democrats keep fixing the economic crisis du jour that the Republicans caused twice now.

The Democrats' JUST reward should have been continued control of Congress and Presidency.

Nope, It is us , we THE VOTERS who failed.

We the voters ensured that the only power Democrats have are writing strongly worded letters.

We have failed ourselves by re-electing Republicans again.

When we THE VOTERS kicked Democrats are kicked out of House during the Midterms that effectively stopped the fantastic, inspirational progress that Obama & Biden was making during their terms.

This is on us the voters to fix. Now more than ever, voting and electing Democrats is the correct choice 100% of the time.

Voting for Democrats are better than voting for Republicans & 3rd parties for every issue (economy, jobs, health care, civil rights, foreign policies, etc).

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u/DangerousCyclone 6d ago edited 6d ago

He was far from one of the most Pro Israel Presidents though, and he did pressure Bibi immediately to cease building settlements and succeeded for a time. I think the issue is similar to how he handled Russia; he was too passive as they stepped up their incursions and violations against the peace. The settler project kicked into high gear under him and by the time he left we had an escalating situation that led to the pre 10/7 status quo. 

Politically , had he done more he would've faced far more opposition among his own party and the Republicans. AIPACs stranglehold was very strong at the time. 

That said I hate this sentiment. Yeah he didn't have a good record before, but it is huge that he's saying something now.

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u/DMercenary 6d ago edited 5d ago

Its purity politics. "Oh you didn't have a perfect stance on this? Fuck off and never ever darken our door again."

edit: lmao qed the replies. ITT is malding and seething that Obama finally made a statement against Israel. Instead of actually going "great!" Its "Ugh finally he still sucks though." No wonder none of you ever fucking win anything. As soon as one puts a toe out of line its "THEY SUCK FOREVER AND I WILL NEVER SUPPORT THEM!"

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u/n16r4 6d ago

No it's if you have any decency you say sorry acknowledge your mistake and put your effort behind people who are actually right on the issue because obviously you have no fucking idea.

You don't go out and do a mixture of ass-covering and finger-wagging, I mean ffs he talks about Israel ceding moral ground, what moral ground they've been a settler state from the start. He is trying to safe the Israeli project from selfdestruction.

It's the exact opposite of purity politics because Obama is trying to leech of the pro-palestine sentiment, he isn't trying to join he is barring the entry for others.

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u/solerex 5d ago

What could Obama possibly be leeching off of the cause for? He's not up for elected office and he doesn't gain anything for espousing his opinion

"Israel project" reeks of prejudice btw 

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u/n16r4 5d ago

I'm sure Obama is not invested in Democrats or the American project, he probably has no feelings or convictions and became president on a whim.

Guess what most of us will never run for office, yet we still try and influence politics.

"Israel project" reeks of prejudice btw 

You can't be a real person, no wonder you are an Obama fan you reek of this moral grandstanding and tone policing, in what world is Israel not a man-made project? They make it a point of pride that they reconstructed the language, you'll also notice that 7 million Israelis did not sprout from the ground but made a concerted effort in creating the country.

Especially from the perspective of America Israel is their pet project, they don't fund it out of the goodness of their heart, same way governments all over the world are projects of America, or would you say the current Venezuelan government is not an American project ie construction?!

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u/lyreluna 6d ago

He's always enjoyed finger wagging anyone who doesn't agree with him

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u/kylebisme 6d ago

he did pressure Bibi immediately to cease building settlements and succeeded for a time.

Not really.

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u/n16r4 6d ago

No it's not huge and he still is not saying the right thing, it's a fucking distraction and it works.

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u/DamienRyan 6d ago

This is exactly the kind of infighting that makes the left so ineffective.

Yes, Obama is very late to the party. Yes you can accuse him of political cowardice. Yes, he was well versed in the sins of the Israeli state leading up to his election in 2008 and did almost nothing for the Palestinians while in power, all these things are true.

He is also a powerful political ally that is moving into the anti Israel tent and everything possible should be done to encourage him to move in further. This is what the right understands and does so well. They ignore these inconsistencies and grievances in pursuit of a larger goal.

If Obama helps bring the end of Israeli occupation and apartheid .1% closer than I welcome him with open arms. I am willing to ignore his opportunistic nature in pursuit of a greater good. We can save the criticism for the history books.

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u/xvrqt 5d ago

I think if you're president of the united states we can hold you directly accountable for your policies - like be fr

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u/-nukethemoon 5d ago

Sure but it’s also been a whole ass decade. Maybe we can also grant that people can change their minds in that stretch of time. 

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u/buppiejc 6d ago

The only reason why he's even bending on this is because the left flank has never stopped talking about it, and demanding more, and started primary centrists. What other strategy would have worked?

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u/Wb9VBScxu2uZJHeq2E3W 6d ago

That's fine with me. Keep on talking about it. Keep on demanding more. Keep on primarying centrists.

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u/xdre 5d ago

Opposing Republicans getting in office would be a strong start.

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u/buppiejc 5d ago

Attempting to distract from legitimate constructive criticism for the party that’s failing to represent you by casually mentioning Republicans is the type of fear-based politics that loses presidential elections to a felon, and only aids in Fascism since said party, in its current form, is toothless to fight against it.

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u/xdre 5d ago

Is it “distracting” when the criticism is bullshit? Y’all have already ignored how tough Obama was on Israel during his two terms to pretend you somehow influenced him to be tough on Israel now. I find that revisionist and reductionist.

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u/No_Pizza_9831 5d ago edited 5d ago

Well I doubt you can say that the "left is ineffective" given that it is the political left that is the reason we are having this conversation on Israel's actions in the first place (and I say that as someone who isn't as left like most people on Reddit, and the left deserve credit). Also, you are being disingenuous when you suggest that all he did was "nothing for Palestine". Respectfully, while there are difficulties with the US Presidency that all Presidents endure (which generally result in them towing the pro-Israel line) his actions directly contributed to the problems in that region of the world today. He didn't just work against Palestine, he actively armed Israel massively and engaged in a ridiculous middle eastern bombing campaign (including to "defend Israel") where he bombed the middle east with drones and bombs more so than even Trump has. Most importantly, despite the US Government's official stance being that they do not recognize Israel's expanded settlement territories, he not only actively allowed the expansion to happen, he armed Israel to produce the conditions in which it could happen.

Finally your position regarding what the right does so well is problematic. You're effectively suggesting that we sweep everything under the rug for the purposes of "pursuing a larger goal". Referring to the brutal murder of civilians by a country armed by this President as "inconsistencies and grievances" is quite a ridiculous statement. Your statement is extremely shortsighted, and ironically only makes sense within the context of your own ideological position as what you view as "inconsistencies and grievances" are a fundamental part of a larger problematic system. For other people, the "larger goal" is to ensure that the policies, and individuals behind those policies, who created the conditions in the first place to allow these things to happen are held accountable. Otherwise, the only "larger goal" that is served is one that maintains the same status quo that causes the problems in the first place.

Yes, people should not over criticize Obama as the pressures of the US Presidency will always require Presidents to take unfortunate positions, and this is especially the case with Israel (due to the USA's geopolitical interests). However, it is equally ridiculous to degrade a substantial world problem caused partly by this man's actions to "inconsistencies and grievances" and to suggest that his actions should just be glossed over. Presidents must make hard decisions, but it is equally true that any future President cannot repeat the same mistakes that Obama made.

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u/buppiejc 5d ago

👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾

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u/oh_the_humanities 6d ago

He’s literally not doing anything like you’re proposing. He is virtue signalling to a base that he’s now realising his party is losing. But he is still fully in support of Israel

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u/walkallover1991 District Of Columbia 6d ago

I don't think holding powerful political figures accountable for their records constitutes "infighting," nor do I think welcoming someone into a movement requires suspending criticism of their past actions.

I'm perfectly happy to see Obama adopt a more critical position toward Israel. But there's an enormous difference between expressing sympathy for Palestinians when you're no longer in office and actually using the considerable power of the presidency to challenge the policies that perpetuate their dispossession.

He had eight years to do that. His administration continued providing Israel with billions in military assistance, opposed Palestinian diplomatic initiatives, and largely protected Israel from international accountability, even as settlement expansion continued.

I also disagree with the idea that the right succeeds simply because it overlooks ideological inconsistencies. Conservative movements have frequently demonstrated their willingness to exert enormous pressure on their own political leaders to secure actual policy concessions.

I also find the timing rather interesting, given that we're less than three weeks away from the midterms. I'm not suggesting he can't have genuinely evolved on this issue, but I think it's perfectly reasonable to question why these statements are coming now, particularly when Democrats have spent years alienating voters over their support for Israel.

I'm not arguing that Obama should be excluded from the conversation. I'm arguing that rhetorical evolution shouldn't automatically confer moral or political absolution, particularly when the person in question helped sustain the very conditions they're now criticizing.

We can welcome a change in position while still demanding accountability - those things aren't mutually exclusive.

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u/adultishiguess 6d ago

Obama was also originally against gay marriage. times change. positions change. At least they do for intellectual people. Allow space for allies or continue demanding penance until you're looking at many tiny fragmented groups

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u/Nop277 6d ago

My understanding is he was not against it but wasn't backing it's full legalization due to the political capitol that would cost. If I recall actually him coming out as officially in support of it's legalization was because Biden in what was widely considered a "gaff" at the time stated that the administration was for it in an interview which kind of pushes their hand at the time.

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u/mikecws91 Illinois 5d ago

No one here understands nuance well enough to grasp the concept of political capital. You’re either morally upstanding or a cowardly snake who follows the wind.

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u/mnmkdc 5d ago

During the peak of the violence Obama basically just said “it’s complicated” when asked about it. People do change, but this isn’t that. He’s just saying what’s popular now. Of course it’s better that he’s actually saying something, but we don’t need to pretend that he’s some random person who educated themselves at changed their stance. We can expect more from the former most powerful man on the planet, who personally played a part in the deaths of thousands of people. That doesn’t mean we have to just reject him as a whole either.

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u/Berdsherman 6d ago

Accountability is awesome. But one of the most influential politicians that is not currently in office just agreed on a serious issue with us. I’m taking it.

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u/phishxiii 6d ago

Nah he's right, it's never enough with people like you. So tiring.

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u/Enterprise-DeezNuts 5d ago edited 5d ago

"it's never enough" and the "it" in question is just a statement that says nothing more than "yeah Israel is doing some bad stuff now". He has done nothing to materially help the Palestinian cause. This is literally what virtue signalling used to mean before the right stole it: saying you support a cause without actually doing anything material to support it or aligning your actions with support for the cause

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u/Knowledge_Moist Canada 6d ago

The hell you mean "never enough" ? What did Obama even do in the first place regarding Palestine? Or Biden? Chirping into a microphone years later isn't doing anything. That's the issue.

You don't get to have a pat in the back for saying "I should have". Had he said something like this after his presidency but before Oct 7 or even right after during Biden's, perhaps that would have meant something yes, but now? When Israel has never been this unpopular?

What's next? Should we congratulate Joe Biden when he delivers the same message in 10 years after enabling the genocide in the first place? If we don't will you say it's "never enough" for us too? Don't you realize stuff like this fuels cynicism in politics?

Incoming mention of "purity test".

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u/NaturalFrog2 6d ago

It’s no wonder why we lost

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u/walkallover1991 District Of Columbia 6d ago

I voted for Harris :)

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u/Knowledge_Moist Canada 6d ago

Y'all lost because you had 2 shitty candidates with shitty programs, but one was also very uncharismatic on top of being shitty. Never go full shitty.

Hope that helps.

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u/oh_the_humanities 6d ago

He’s offering the most milquetoast criticism. All he’s saying is that maybe Israel went too far. This is in no way supporting Palestine

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u/DamienRyan 6d ago

Yes, it's all very tepid. But the wheel turns by degrees.

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u/LoneSabre Canada 6d ago

If the wheel has only moved a few degrees then why are you acting like we’ve already gone somewhere? There’s a long way to go.

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u/Wb9VBScxu2uZJHeq2E3W 6d ago

Nobody is arguing against you.

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u/[deleted] 6d ago edited 6d ago

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u/njdem1983 6d ago

Lmao great song. Lasers is dope af.

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u/[deleted] 6d ago

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u/SweetKenny 6d ago

Remember kids, nobody hates a leftist as much as another leftist with a slightly different opinion.

(No, Obama is not a leftist, but jfc just shut up and be happy that a powerful person has been pulled to a more morally correct position. Political purity is an immature idea at best and kinda fascist at worst)

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u/CynicalCaffeinAddict 5d ago

Great work! You managed to eak out a tepid agreement to your cause from a left leaning centrist by showing them you'd rather let a fascist regime take power than accept anything other than complete validation on a single issue.

Its a shame the regime you let take power gets off by violently opposing your single issue and has active plans on never leaving power. But oh boy, you got those fake leftists you did! Bully for you and your moral superiority, o'l chap!

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u/Magrowl 6d ago

fascism is when leftists tell me off for not being a leftist

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u/ButtEatingContest 5d ago

"leftists" is the new "Antifa". A shadowy group that any old thing can be attributed to.

"Somehow this is all the fault of... leftists".

A word that wasn't even commonly used in even this subreddit until just a few short years ago bbots injected it into mainstream discourse. Now "leftists" are blamed for every imaginable woe in every single post.

Amazing how that works.

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u/fnezio 5d ago

be happy that a powerful person has been pulled to a more morally correct position

And now thank them for the crumbs you get.

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u/SweetKenny 5d ago

My brother in Christ, it is so easy to say “this is good, but keep going” without being pissy at the same time.

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u/fnezio 4d ago

Don’t mind me, I’m not even American. Keep appreciating this posturing all you want.

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u/Gamershift 5d ago

Obama could be a flying pink and purple elephant for all that it matters. What matters is that he is an intensely influential politician whose vocal support can do wonders for Palestinians. It serves no one to argue over terminology at a point where energy is better spent using this momentum to persuade, recruit, and unify others.

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u/Enterprise-DeezNuts 5d ago

A tepid statement that Israel is doing some bad stuff does nothing for Palestinians. What is he doing to materially help them with his influence and connections? Something that actually helps people, not just words on tv

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u/Gamershift 5d ago

Could he do more? Yes, I'm sure he could. But the impact of "words on TV" shouldn't be minimized. When a respected former president offers their opinion to the public, millions take that opinion and adopt it where, otherwise, they would've either been fence-sitters or gone with the mainstream Democratic position on the matter. When people become willing to say "Israel has ceded moral ground", no matter how tepid that statement might be, it becomes infinitely easier for them to then realize and accept it for being a genocide.

You want real political change when it comes to the US and its involvement in Gaza? Sway the voters, get their foot in the door just enough that they can find their way in, and get them to vote for that change. It's slow, slower than I'm sure anyone would like, but it does help and we shouldn't discount it.

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u/Enterprise-DeezNuts 5d ago

Yup, MAGA gets everything they want because Republicans who aren't Trump are terrified of their base. Same with with the Tea Party before that. Meanwhile, your average Democrat loses their mind if you even suggest being mean to a Dem politician who has done horrific things

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u/DamienRyan 6d ago

He's not left. The democrats are not left. But they never will be if continue to attack them when they make moves in a leftward direction. The toddler has taken some baby steps. Encourage it.

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u/[deleted] 6d ago

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u/Sqkerg Hawaii 6d ago

You’re absolutely right, I for one will NEVER vote for Obama again.

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u/SatisfactionNarrow61 6d ago

“Hahaha democrats arent left enough so let’s pave the way for fascism by having zero concept of harm reduction.”

God damn we are fucked.

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u/lenaro 6d ago

(Obama can't run for president again)

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u/ShortingBull 5d ago

Given this - those words just adjust to mean the "left most".

Nothing and no one is 100% right or 100% left and the middle swings around a bit.

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u/uFFxDa 6d ago

Why are you against people supporting leftist positions just because you don’t consider them leftist enough? lol.

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u/Healthy-Amoeba2296 5d ago

I was at a big hippie college in 1968. I see no leftists today.

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u/1002003004005006007 Illinois 6d ago

Newsflash, the left will never stop infighting. The only chance the left has to get anywhere politically at this point is for the right to just be totally and wholly incompetent to the point that they turn off independents and swingers. Which is happening lol but even if we win in November it won’t last because the left cannot coalesce on any single topic.

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u/_Gobias_Some_Coffee_ 6d ago

Just so I get this right, the liberal perspective is that:

1) the left killed Harris's campaign by not shutting up about genocide, and 2) the left can't coalesce on any single topic

Makes total sense.

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u/lyreluna 6d ago

When did swingers get in this?

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u/ilir_kycb 5d ago

This is exactly the kind of infighting that makes the left so ineffective.

What infighting? Obama is a liberal, even a neoliberal. He is not a leftist, not even remotely.

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u/Gankdatnoob 5d ago

I don't understand. Are you saying we need to praise these people for finally reading the room or what? They will see us as ungrateful and support genocide again? It is the moral imperative to be on the right side of history here. This is in his OWN best interest and his legacy.

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u/hussainhssn 6d ago

This is such bullshit honestly, I mean come on this guy isn’t even on the Left in many ways. He’s a neoliberal centrist through and through, which really means that he doesn’t have any values. If he did he would have spoken out earlier, instead he gave them more weapons and bombs and ammunition to brutalize Palestinians while going so far as to kiss the wall and call himself “part of the tribe”. Actually stupid behavior and complete pandering, turns out he was pandering to Zionists/pedophiles/rapists in Israel like a lot of other people in DC. We can call a spade a spade, and we should do exactly that.

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u/NenPame 6d ago

Democrats are a right wing party disguised as centrists

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u/nonhiphipster 6d ago

Bro you arguing that “actually, Obama isn’t even on the left” EXACTLY proves the infighting that makes liberals ineffective

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u/Vegetable-Error-2068 6d ago

If you see criticism as "infighting," then you are expressing a fascist tendency and I invite you to leave the party to make room for someone who sees the value in criticism.

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u/Daniel_The_Thinker 5d ago

The end to Israeli "occupation" will only happen with a two-state solution which is even more unpopular with Palestinians than it is Israelis.

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u/Mysral 6d ago

THANK YOU. We cannot let perfect be the enemy of good. Or, at the very least, let good be the enemy of Even A Little Bit Better.

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u/gornzilla 6d ago

You mean to say the Nobel Peace Prize winner who bombed and killed another Nobel Peace Prize winner could do something like that? 

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u/Shabadu_tu 6d ago

This kind of attitude is the exact reason Trump is in the Oval Office planning to turn Gaza into a casino.

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u/ManiaGamine American Expat 6d ago edited 5d ago

People really need to understand that a President is normally supposed to align with the positions and policies of the country itself, which is to put it simply. Pro-Israel. That's simply the American position. No matter what a President's personal views are, the overall position of America is that Israel is an ally.

A President (at least a Democratic one) can't go against that. If you want the position on Israel to change you need to swap out the Congressional politicians, not the President.

In other words, we decry Trump for doing outrageous things that no President should be doing... yet fault Obama for not doing that.

Edit: Also, I am not saying that America should support Israel or that I would (I absolutely don't, they're practically Nazis at this point) just that the American official position is that they are an ally, if not the closest ally America has. It shouldn't be but it is.

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u/captainbling 5d ago edited 5d ago

I don’t believe they can join until they are a recognized state and that sounds simple enough until we realize you must have official borders and they keep saying their borders include all of Israel hence never get official statehood. We often see countries recognize Palestine as a state with borders that Palestine says is incorrect and then refuses to compromise on. To this day, Palestine is technically still not a state even though we are like bro, be state already.

I should add they finally changed to accepting the pre 1967 border in 2017. Still don’t recognize Israel though which might be an issue. Hope that helps explain why nothing happened during his term.

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u/PixelationIX 5d ago

Obama made his comments while visiting Belfast, Northern Ireland, to receive an honorary doctorate from Queen's University Belfast.

While it is a step toward the correct way, I will wait until he says it here in the U.S otherwise it does come off as like pandering to Ireland as they are overwhelmingly in Support of Palestine.

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u/mr-mobius 5d ago

Northern Ireland is a bit more diverse in opinion on this than the Republic of Ireland, but an audience that wants to see a Democrat former president is likely pro-Palestine in the majority.

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u/walkallover1991 District Of Columbia 5d ago

While the Republic is vehemently pro-Palestine, outside of Germany, most of Europe is significantly more pro-Palestine than the United States as a whole.

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u/FeloniousDrunk101 New York 6d ago

Better late than never. You can’t go back, only move forward.

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u/Daniel_The_Thinker 5d ago

You can't be against settlement expansion while simultaneously sending military aid to Israel, protecting Israel on the international arena, and not sanctioning high-ranking Israeli leaders.

Yes you can.

That's called being in an alliance with Israel without condoning their expansionism.

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u/VengefulAncient 5d ago

Because personal opinions aside, no US president who isn't a complete idiot will ever abandon their only real ally in the Middle East. And if y'all elect AOC or whoever, you will see just how fast they will be forced to come to terms with that reality.

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u/ilir_kycb 5d ago

You can't be against settlement expansion while simultaneously sending military aid to Israel, protecting Israel on the international arena, and not sanctioning high-ranking Israeli leaders.

Of course you can do that if you're a lying fraud, and that's exactly what the Democrats and Obama are.

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u/peeja 5d ago

I don't think the story here is (or, should be) "Obama is great." To me, the story is "Obama is on board now." It's specofithe fact that he did all those things while in office that makes me happy to see this, because it means the establishment is coming around. That tells me two things: that on this topic, Democrats are finally positioning themselves in a more morally justifiable place than before, and that on general the national party can actually be swayed by public sentiment. That's incredibly heartening.

I no longer expect politicians at this level to base their words and actions on their internal morality. I expected them to simply reflect the pressure that's put on them. Arguably, that's kind of their job. The question is simply which pressure they reflect: a small powerful elite, or the majority of the populace. When it's the latter, democracy is working.

I can live with the changing position, because consistency only matters when you need to have faith that someone will stick with the position you supported them for. But if you instead can have faith they'll follow the will of the people, even better.

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u/Jamarcus316 6d ago

Israel has been killing Palestinians and taking their territory for decades and decades.

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u/ifnotthefool 6d ago

Israel was committing the same genocide on the Palestinian people 15 - 20 years ago.

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u/Zealousideal-Film982 6d ago

There wasn’t even an occupation in that time period.

You’re making the word into something meaningless.

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u/ifnotthefool 6d ago

I definitely am not and there has been an occupation there for 80+ years. This subjective take on history is frightening.

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u/mmmmm_pancakes Connecticut 6d ago

Israel hasn’t even existed for 80 years.

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u/ifnotthefool 5d ago

My apologies, I meant 78 years. Israel was founded in 1948.

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u/Juunlar 6d ago

It's easy to be right when you just make shit up. And it's rude if you to point out his bullshit.

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u/Enterprise-DeezNuts 5d ago edited 5d ago

Israel's has been occupying Palestine and systematically raping and murdering Palestinians since its creation in the 40s, what on Earth are you talking about

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u/rageking5 6d ago

No, people are just paying attention to what Israel is doing more now.

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u/odix 6d ago

It's a little more complicated than that...but yes, he could have done more.

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u/adoxographyadlibitum 5d ago

Only response we need on this. Could have spoken up on in October 2023 when his former VP was giving this nation all the runway it needed to enact this genocide.

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u/VengefulAncient 5d ago

When exactly in October 2023? Maybe on the 8th, when people who allegedly "just don't want Palestinians dead" were already out on the streets en masse celebrating dead Israelis while their blood hasn't even dried yet and Israel hasn't even decided how to respond?

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u/Background-Taro-573 6d ago

The Hamas governed Palestine? I can't imagine why the US blocked it

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u/Supersilverr 6d ago

Obama was also against gay marriage then he was for it. Positions evolve and let’s be glad he’s on board now.

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u/kam1lly 6d ago

What could he have done? AIPAC is stronger than the presidency

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u/AverageLiberalJoe 6d ago

Lmao must be election year because the progressive left is helping Republicans again.

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u/AgentInkling99 6d ago

Obama’s foreign policy left a lot to be desired, but his domestic achievements are far better than most recent presidents.

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