Obama: Israel 'took the land' from Palestinians, 'ceded moral ground' in Gaza

[u/Particular_Log_3594]

https://www.jpost.com/international/article-911851

[u/Annoying_cat_22]

Is a parent "standing up" to their kids when they ground them?

What an ignorant framing. Israel is a proxy of the US, heavily dependent on it for diplomatic and military protection. Obama had the power to force a 2 state solution and chose not to do it. Talking 10 years too late doesn't help anyone and doesn't absolves him from his support that lead to the Gaza genocide.

[u/WeWantLADDER49sequel → u/Annoying_cat_22]

There is no way we force a two state solution. That entire region is unstable and it is dependent on our money to keep it even at the level of unstable it is now. We withdraw support and not only does the genocide continue but it accelerate. People love to believe the conspiracy that presidents keep sending money because they are controlled by invisible israeli money but in reality its because no one has found a way to ween the region off of our support without causing millions of deaths.

Without us, Israel would be way more aggressive towards potential threats in Gaza since they would no longer have the defense capabilites we grant them. Iran would be able to attach Israel much easier. They would all destroy each other. This is all a reality that #freepalestine people choose to ignore.

To be clear, I still think we should just cut them off and let the events unfold. But i also understand why Presidents have not simply cut the money off because no one wants to be the president that allowed the region to completely implode.

[u/Annoying_cat_22 → u/WeWantLADDER49sequel]

Of course it's possible, but Obama was president 10 years ago when it was even easier to force it. No Gaza genocide, no war with Iran, less settlements.

The far right is "only" 20-30% of Israel. 20-30 more for the right. The center, while still supporting the Gaza genocide, would be happy to accept the forced 2ss instead of becoming North Korea.

[u/Think-Explanation-75 → u/Annoying_cat_22]

Again, this framing of "10 years" is widely inaccurate.

Case 1 https://www.csmonitor.com/World/Middle-East/2009/0521/p06s01-wome.html

Immediately after taking office, Obama worked to stop Israeli settlements from further advancing into Palestinian land.

Case 2: The Cairo Speech, or his speech in Israel https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVKWr11oBUE

This framing that Obama did not care about or do anything for the Palestinian people is a falsehood. And the only reason you didn't see this is that

A.) You didn't care or didn't pay attention back then
B.) You were too young
C.) You have done 0 research into his administration and simply talk about his presidency knowing nothing about it.

"Obama had the power to force a 2 state solution and chose not to do it." This right here might be up there with the top 10 stupidest things I've read ever. If the us president was able to force a 2 state solution, we would not need the Oslo Accords. So please elaborate on how a president of the United States can force a 2 state solution? I would love to hear this reasoning.

[u/Enterprise-DeezNuts → u/Think-Explanation-75]

Citing a speech as an example of "doing something" is very funny. And a call for an end to settlement expansion is meaningless when the US did not vote against Israeli settlement expansion in the UN and continued to send them guns to use in said expansion. What no material analysis does to someone. Neither of those things stopped a single bomb, fed a single orphan, or saved a single Palestinian from the terror Israel inflicts on them every day

As for how he could have gotten a 2 state solution, literally all America has to do whenever we deal with Israel on any topic is tell them no more weapons or aid unless they do what we say. Israel cannot fight its wars without American weapons, they do not have the ability to produce replacements. American politicians don't do this because Israel's wars generally serve American imperial interests

[u/Think-Explanation-75 → u/Enterprise-DeezNuts]

"As for how he could have gotten a 2 state solution, literally all America has to do whenever we deal with Israel on any topic is tell them no more weapons or aid unless they do what we say. Israel cannot fight its wars without American weapons"

Thank you for showing how little you know about this topic, because Obama did just that, and Israel went behind their back to acquire weapons anyway.

It's actually funny you used that example since it was such a high-profile situation where Israel used back channels behind the president's back to acquire those weapons. Showing that even if the president prevented weapon sales, they were so integrated in our society that they could still acquire them if they wanted, which they did.

And the speeches are just examples. But that fact I must sit here for hours alleviating the ignorance of hundreds rather than any of you actually looking at the context or what really happens is the issue here. You would rather larp when there's a crisis than approach it informed.

[u/Annoying_cat_22 → u/Think-Explanation-75]

 Israeli military had been quietly securing supplies of ammunition from the Pentagon without their approval.

So you think the US president can't stop US weapon shipments to Israel? And this doesn't worry you? Taking bootlicking to a whole new level.

Any serious president would have fired anyone involved and ban all weapon shipments to Israel for the rest of his term.

[u/Annoying_cat_22 → u/Think-Explanation-75]

1. he is the president, Israel is a proxy. There is no "worked to".

2. Oh he gave a speech. Did it stop anything? No. Got him a peace prize though, that's nice.

3. Did he care in his heart? Maybe, only god knows. Did he do anything to help them? No.

4. I am an Israeli, I was in the Israeli army back then. Believe me I was paying attention. He didn't do anything.

5. The US president is able to force a 2 state solution. They all chose not to do it. The Oslo accords was the path to the 2 state solution, and all it needed was for the US presidents to force Israel to follow it to its resolution instead of letting it abuse it and drag "the process" forever.

All I can hope for is that the next president will skip the process, and just force the solution by force with an executive order.

[u/Enterprise-DeezNuts → u/Annoying_cat_22]

It's wild that these people don't seem to understand that Israel would literally be incapable of carrying out a genocide or attacking anyone if we just told them "no more weapons". Reagan did it with a single phone call