r/pcmasterrace • u/Caledor152 PC Master Race • Jun 30 '26
News/Article Bombshell lawsuit alleges that RAM manufacturers are colluding to drive up prices. Three companies that account for 90% of RAM revenue are being sued for anti-competitive practices. Samsung, SK Hynix, and Micron (the "DRAM Triarchy" controlling ~90-95% of the global DRAM market)
https://www.polygon.com/ram-manufacturers-sued-supply-price-fixing/1.7k
u/r_lind3r PC Master Race Jun 30 '26
Yeah no shit, who wouldn't when they own the entire market
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u/OpenCatPalmstrike Jun 30 '26
This isn't even the first time it's happened. It's like the 4th since from when I started in IT and building PC's back in the mid-1990s.
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u/SecureDonkey Jun 30 '26
Except this time there will be no one stopping them since US currently have the most corrupted government in the history right now.
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u/attitudinalwinnn Jun 30 '26
right when the entire government is elbow deep in DRAM stocks they have no incentive to stop this
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u/Akussa Jun 30 '26
It's almost like they all realized that and it's why they're colluding now to drive up prices. Because they know no one's going to go after them with the current admin. If things shift with the mid-terms I imagine they'll stop or slow the price creep.
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u/relaytheurgency 4060 16GB, Intel Core i7-11700K, 32 GB DDR4 Jun 30 '26
You think the US is the most corrupt government in the history of the world?
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u/Own_Director_4442 Jun 30 '26
The current US government? Absolutely, not only are they the most corrupt they're the most transparent about how corrupt they are.
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Jun 30 '26
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u/ProfessorVolga Jun 30 '26
The scale of corruption is completely different. It's not American exceptionalism to understand that realistically, shitty things that happen in America affect the rest of us on a vastly global scale.
A cop down the street accepting bribes may be theoretically more corrupt than a billionaire purchasing the US presidency and destroying centuries of infrastructure for his own gain, but it does not affect the entire global economy.
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u/DarkwingDuckHunt Jun 30 '26
In OP's defense they didn't specify the region they were referring to, and it can safely be concluded they were referring to the USA based on context.
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u/Mysterious_Crab_7622 Jun 30 '26
You believe that the US government wonât go after the 3 foreign RAM manufacturers for causing financial harm to the American Tech oligarchy? Really?
I would have thought that the corruption would cause them to be extra motivated to go after these foreign RAM manufacturers. What motivation does the US have to protect foreign companies instead of Apple, Microsoft, and the American AI companies?
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u/Injustice_For_All_ Desktop Jun 30 '26
Anything to increase shareholder profits right?
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u/Didifinito Jun 30 '26
People with morals
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Jun 30 '26
Corporations have no real morals. They only appear to have morals when it is profitable for them. For corporations, morality is a means to an end, not an end in itself.
People with strong moral principles generally do not build mega corporations, because those principles can create disadvantages in the competition for power. The winners of that competition are often those who are willing to set morality aside. Shareholders and stock investors also tend to prioritize financial returns over moral considerations.
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u/FrigidMcThunderballs 4060 laptop because i'm literally always travelling Jun 30 '26
A concept which precludes owning the entire market in the first place
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u/ezoe 9950X3D/9070XT Jun 30 '26
Big 3: "What are you going to do? Refusing us and find other supplier? Tough luck."
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Jun 30 '26 edited Jun 30 '26
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u/ItsNotRockitSurgery Desktop Jun 30 '26
At this point these lawsuits aren't even fines to these companies, it's just convenience fees allowing them to do whatever the fuck they want
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Jun 30 '26
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u/Caleth Jun 30 '26
Fine's aren't meant to kill companies because we have a corrupt system that allows it to be that way.
But at a minimum the fines should start all the illegal profits and the penalties should be added on top. Instead it's a 1/100th of 1/100th or a 1/100th of the illicit profits so they just pay and keep doing it again.
Unless people are jailed or companies are broken up and sold to someone else nothing about any of this will change.
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u/TheLastAOG Jun 30 '26
I was just about to say something similar. It's interesting that companies can sue about driving the prices up because of arbitrary reasons but the average consumer just has to take it lying down.
So who do we sue for the rest of the economy? Asking for a friend.
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u/Numar19 Jun 30 '26
Again? Didn't they get caught in the past doing exactly this?
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u/magniankh PC Master Race Jun 30 '26
At least twice from memory. But maybe 3 or 4 times. I remember my room mate at the time telling me over morning coffee, "Hey the RAM manufacturers were caught inflating prices again, it'll be a good time to build in a couple months." And he was right, prices dropped 50%.Â
Apparently no new laws have been drafted in 26 years, they just get fined, told to stop, then they do it again 3 years later.Â
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u/SgtKarlin i5 4460 + GTX1050ti Jun 30 '26
At least twice from memory.
and how many times for other components?
I'll see myself out...
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u/myfakesecretaccount 5800X3D | 7900 XTX | 3600MHz 32GB Jun 30 '26
We had consumer protections that have been whittled down to nothing. A presidential candidate had this exact kind of monopoly and price fixing as part of their platform, but people didnât like the way she laughed and we got a fat tub of rancid lard instead, and he takes his kickbacks in the open so yeah this isnât getting better for at least three years.
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u/zephyy Jun 30 '26
We used to have the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau.
Current admin cut its staff 90% and put the head of Project 2025 as its acting director. Will be surprised if it even exists 2 years from now.
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u/Endvi Jun 30 '26
How much would the fines have to be to dissuade this behavior in the future? At least in the hundreds of billions at this point
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u/Ferro_Giconi RX4006ti | i4-1337X | 33.01GB Crucair RAM | 1.35TB Knigsotn SSD Jun 30 '26
Yep, it's just business as usual, and it's going to keep happening.
When executives aren't being thrown in jail enough and the fines are only a small percentage of the profits gained by doing something illegal, it's essentially not illegal anymore. It's just a show being put on to make the little people feel like something is being done about a situation that screws them over.
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u/xcygnusx Jun 30 '26
Yep, in the 2000s they colluded to artificially pump up prices.
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u/viceraptor Jun 30 '26
Apparently they didn't stop, there was just no will to "catch" them again
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u/happycat47 Jun 30 '26
When there is only profit and no consequences, what good is following the law?
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u/ThatGenericName2 7-5800x, RTX 3070, 2*16 3200mhz, ITX Case on fire Jun 30 '26
While thereâs precedence for RAM manufacturers price fixing (last confirmed one was 2000~, and there was a more recent allegations back in 2014 which iirc âcoincidentallyâ led to ram prices dropping soon afterwards), I donât really expect this one to get anywhere.
despite the soaring demand for DRAM, these three companies have cut production to focus instead on less-profitable High Bandwidth Memory (HBM), which is generally used in data centers.
Um yeah? Data centers is what is driving up demand and theyâre pretty much willing to pay whatever, so of course they will switch production to it even if it was more expensive.
From the article it seems like the basis for the lawsuit is just âprice went up and theyâve done it beforeâ.
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u/Excellent_Ganache906 Jun 30 '26
Someone needs to tell the idiot who wrote the article it's not less profitable now.
It's insanely more profitable than making DRAM which is why Micron switched from making mostly DRAM to making mostly HBM and selling exclusively to corporate clients.
Also seems super obvious it's not price fixing, it's AI companies willing to overspend like crazy to get RAM. I mean.... it just seems incredibly fucking obvious.
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u/WeenisWrinkle Jun 30 '26
It's incredibly obvious to anyone that knows the insane new investment into memory by hyper scalers just this year alone.
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u/WeenisWrinkle Jun 30 '26
From the article it seems like the basis for the lawsuit is just âprice went up and theyâve done it beforeâ.
That's more than enough for this sub to consider them guilty.
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u/Seanspeed Jun 30 '26
which iirc âcoincidentallyâ led to ram prices dropping soon afterwards),
Memory prices go up and down with demand cycles. That's just how it ALWAYS works. that and NAND are quite volatile in that respect.
The only time any collusion was ever proven was the one time back like 25 years ago.
Simply going, "Prices are up, must be collusion" is lazy thinking from ignorant people that dont understand how the industry works at all.
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u/sh1boleth Jun 30 '26
If anyone read the article (which nobody here did) there is no case here at all, it will be thrown away. Theyâre colluding by deprioritizing ddr3 and ddr4 ram (with little demand) by prioritizing hbm (with high demand)
Just a nothing burger
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u/jmorlin 9800x3d / 5070TI Jun 30 '26 edited Jun 30 '26
Of all the tech adjacent subs, this is the one where I least expect anyone to read the article. I'm honestly shocked to see this comment as high as it is. I was really only expecting memes and uninformed over reactions all the way down.
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u/Seanspeed Jun 30 '26
To be fair, it still is like 95% of the comment section just immediately believing they are guilty without reading the article or really understanding anything about this.
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u/budzergo Jun 30 '26
welcome to reddit
sees clickbait title -> it must be true because it's against what i dislike -> spread
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u/Suppafly Jun 30 '26
To be fair, it still is like 95% of the comment section just immediately believing they are guilty without reading the article or really understanding anything about this.
TBR, they probably are at least a little guilty.
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u/Chuckfinley_88 Jun 30 '26
No matter what shady shit you think they are doing, that isn't the reason that prices have ballooned.
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u/Dornith Jun 30 '26
This isn't really a tech sub. It's a sub for gamers who think that makes them techies.
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u/sh1boleth Jun 30 '26
Another guy with the same comment as me was downvoted, itâs luck of the draw here. This sub used to be better a long time ago
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u/dabien1o1 Jun 30 '26
The lawsuit is talking about DDR3 and DDR4 prices going up. Yeah well no shit why would they continue to produce older memory when it's more profitable to manufacture and sell DDR5 and HBM due to demand severely outstripping supply. The lawsuit also claims that HBM is less profitable which is not even remotely true given recent contracts. This lawsuit is getting thrown out in 2 seconds lol.
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u/HershelsNubb Jun 30 '26
Could be less profitable per unit, but obviously more profitable overall. Either way Iâm reserving judgement until I can read the actual lawsuit, articles like this are notorious for getting details wrong.
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u/budzergo Jun 30 '26
it's another one of those throw shit around and hope something comes from it
their arguments are awful, they have no real logic, and there is no "price fixing".
demand vs production
that's all it is.
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u/Seanspeed Jun 30 '26
Yep, it's a fucking ridiculous lawsuit from anybody who understands this stuff whatsoever.
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u/Positive-Injury-579 Jun 30 '26
due to sanctions from the United States, Chinese companies couldn't buy the tooling that was used by the South Korean companies Samsung and SK Hynix for DDR4 production. Technically the equipment is sitting idle. Mikron has a subsidiary in China and Taiwan doing DDR4 production. So technically they are witholding production but not exactly fault of their own.
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u/shadowds PC Master Race Jun 30 '26
Lawyers winning the pot money. Manufactures gets a slap on the wrist fees that easily cover by current market demand that making them so much money already, and prices of ram will keep on raising.
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u/IndependentLove2292 Jun 30 '26
It's like a mafia movie. Sun Woo Lee of Samsung pleaded guilty to the conspiracy, went inside for a while (8 months), and when he came out got promoted to president of Samsung for Germany and again to president of Samsung for Europe.Â
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u/I-LOVE-TURTLES666 Potato Jun 30 '26
The fine is just the cost of doing business
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u/aeseth Jun 30 '26
Fines that is significantly minuscule vs the profits. Unless there is incarceration, they ain't gonna buckle down and just business as usual.
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u/Seanspeed Jun 30 '26
Manufactures gets a slap on the wrist fees
They will likely pay no fees at all.
Not because the system is so corrupt, but because this lawsuit is bullshit.
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u/magniankh PC Master Race Jun 30 '26
The lawsuit has no evidence of conspiracy to rig the market. Their strongest argument is that these companies have done this before and that they have currently slowed production of normal DRAM in order to focus on HBM for data centers.Â
That's not a conspiracy, that's just market demand driving their production. This lawsuit means nothing, more than likely the plaintiff is looking for free money from a settlement to just make this go away.Â
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u/Ormusn2o Jun 30 '26
I don't quite understand the justification in the lawsuit. It points out how DRAM is more profitable than HBM and the companies still are fixing the prices, despite there being no evidence of it.
âfixed supply and prices for DRAM, engaging in conduct that makes no economic sense absent collusion"
Back in the 2000s, it made sense to fix prices and limit supply because if one or two companies bankrupted, there would be no financial benefit either to the losers or the winners. But right now, the prices and demand is so high that whoever will break the collusion will gain a lot of money, especially that it's much faster to ramp up DRAM than HBM. I'm not saying this is not true, but the massive demand rise is not the right time to limit production if you want the most money.
But I think the real answer is even more upsetting, as we have known ever since early 2024 and possibly even late 2023 that HBM would have been a big consumer of wafers needed for memory, and that DRAM would likely been in shortage, as SK Hynix and Micron reported all the way in 2023. This is why Biden's administration have released multiple executive orders reporting about the incoming shortage, and how to deal with it, but the problem is that current administration has not only done nothing to prevent it, but also canceled the executive orders signed by Biden.
And we do have already existing tools for this, mostly used for agricultural products. Off-take agreements, guarantees, purchases under a price floor and so on are common and already existing for almost a hundred years for some agricultural products. Securing production slots for HBM, and setting up a national stockpile for server DRAM would have been a pretty no brainer move in early 2025, but current administration is off-hands when it comes to electronics, because they are too inept to actually do anything correctly.
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u/TimHortonsMagician Jun 30 '26
At this point, I'm pretty well convinced most large companies are colluding to fuck consumers over.
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u/chrissb34 9950X3D2/7900xtx Nitro+/64GB DDR5 Jun 30 '26
Unless proper punishment is given, nothing will change. Simply giving out fines to those who do it will not stop them from doing it! Issue jail time for the higher ups, alongside the fines and maybe even put them under temporary surveillance, just in case! These are multi billion companies who will gladly pay any fine issued to them and keep on doing what they've been doing so far!
Also, as others have stated... this is a recurring felony. Double the punishment, at least!
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u/Alcagoita Jun 30 '26
This should be done by the companies that need the prices to go down, like Sony, Microsoft, Valve, etc. Really powerful and big companies that can make a difference, do they care? Of Course not.
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u/Kermit_the_hog Jun 30 '26
It really sounds like there is no actually functioning market for memory right now. Didnât at least Valve already admit their hands are effectively tied for their new steam thing? Theyâd normally secure memory ahead in batches at a contracted rate but right now they just have to accept as much as is offered at the price offered. If they complain or try to negotiate a better price, the manufacturers wonât offer them the chance to get any next batch.Â
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u/Alcagoita Jun 30 '26
They only have a problem with RAM prices when they subsidise the cost, and that seems like it's over for all consoles, so now it's our problem, not theirs... It's sad, but true.
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u/Kermit_the_hog Jun 30 '26
Well not exactly, they want to sale units. Even if they arenât willing to eat a loss up front. I doubt they are expecting to make out all that well from the console sales themselves any time soon.Â
If they canât price them attractively enough for them to sell themselves, it erodes their user base and consequently their ability to negotiate deals like exclusivities or court people to subscription services and the like.Â
I worry if memory and component prices start to look like theyâre not coming down even farther out. The idea to just exit the physical console market entirely might become more attractive if they canât figure out how to make it profitable in the new reality.Â
Seems unthinkable, but the same AI bros bidding up all memory are pushing online streaming services for games. If Microsoft or Sony canât offer developers an advantageous market to publish for, how long until we start seeing things like GeforceNOW exclusives and lockups powered by some of the overbuilt datacenter compute?
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u/Seanspeed Jun 30 '26
They absolutely care a LOT. You think Valve is happy to have to sell their Steam Machine so expensive and deal with all the negative PR they've gotten from it? You think Sony wants to have to raise prices on consoles that kind of require them to be affordable to make the console strategy work?
It's crazy that you're like 99% of the way to making the logical conclusion here and still getting it wrong.
If there WAS actual collusion, these companies would 100% be all over it. The fact that they're not suggests almost assuredly there is no collusion.
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u/Small-Friendship-576 Jun 30 '26
When these three make all the ram, there is really no way to regulate them. Goverment can regulate phone makers, but not them and tsmc
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u/LuntiX AYYYMD Jun 30 '26
Reminds me of how in Canada we really only have 3 telecom companies. Rogers, Telus, Bell.
Theyre pretty much the only real providers of phones, internet and cable tv. There's some regional options depending where you are but the big three have most of the infrastructure.
The government is constantly trying to add new regulation to reign them in but the big three just collude to find loopholes or ways around it.
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u/reddit_reaper Jun 30 '26
Yeah and even if they will the lawsuit it won't solve anything because price fixing isn't fined heavily enough. They don't care
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u/Grand_Pop_7221 Jun 30 '26
I'm regularly surprised at how little diversity there is in markets that are so critical. How is everyone happy to have computing components and their source materials in markets with at most, like, 4 players in a global economy? During COVID, a single wafer manufacturer had a warehouse burn down(?), and it had massive impacts on global prices.
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u/Felidori Ryzen 5600X / RTX 3070 / 1440p 180hz Jun 30 '26
Micronâs revenue up 600+%. Thatâs not normal. This cartel needs to be stopped. Gamers Nexus did a great video on this and others covering the ram cartel.
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u/shelbyrobinson Jul 01 '26
Just paid for over-priced groceries yesterday, and paid again for inflated building supplies today. And that after filling my tank, with the most expensive gas ever. Hell, corporations are jacking prices everywhere, these ppl were trying to do what most companies are already doing... Screw their customers
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u/xaiel420 Jun 30 '26
They did this with Bread in Canada for 20 years and we all got 49 fuckin dollars.
Corps will collude and continue to do so until people go to prison.
Until then it's just the cost of doing business.
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u/Hsensei Jun 30 '26
The only ones that will get paid will be lawyers. Have fun with your eventual 48 cent zelle payout
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u/BOBOnobobo Desktop Jun 30 '26
Horrible take.
This isn't about getting money back on a stick of ram, this is so that they can fight back against a monopoly.
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u/Kjellvb1979 Jun 30 '26
We are so screwed.
They want you renting compute, not owning a PC, just hardware to connect to their services.
They have been trying for a while. Thing is, now that regulatory bodies have been borked, corrupted, sometimes both, they have nothing to stop them from doing so.
Its going to be either spending 10k on hardware or rent compute for 20, 30, bucks a month. It's coming if we don't fight it.
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u/Beginning-Ask-5080 Desktop Jun 30 '26
Itâs not the first time and it wonât be the last. The fine they get for it is less than the money they made off it so thereâs no reason for them to not do it again.
Only way to stop it is to bring in competition to undercut them.
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u/Hearthhull_Enjoyer 7600x3D | 5070 Ti | 32 GB DDR5 | Pre-RAMageddon build Jun 30 '26
I mean some of them are literally creating artificial scarcity by refusing to sell to consumers. This is not a huge logical leap that they're price fixing.
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u/Jirekianu Jun 30 '26
The only surprise is it has taken this long for another lawsuit. They've been caught several times colluding to price fix.
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u/Strange-Scarcity Jun 30 '26
Wasn't this proven and solved the last time this kind of case happened? I thought it was solved the time, prior to that!
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u/Seanspeed Jun 30 '26
There has only been one time like 25 years ago where any collusion was proven.
There is no collusion here. This lawsuit is 100% getting tossed out.
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u/runrvs Lots of stuff Jun 30 '26
I look forward to my $20 gift card settlement on my $700 ram in 14 years.
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u/Seanspeed Jun 30 '26
The lawsuit is gonna be dropped. You wont be getting anything.
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u/BmanUltima R7 5700X, RX 9070 XT; 2x Xeon E5-2667V2 + 108TB Jun 30 '26
Didn't one of them literally state a few months ago they were purposely cutting back some production to keep pricing up?
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u/myfakesecretaccount 5800X3D | 7900 XTX | 3600MHz 32GB Jun 30 '26
This is Micron who also just donated $250 million to these stupid Trump Accounts. That lets you know exactly who they are friendly with and who is allowing this price fixing.
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u/bublythewater Jun 30 '26
This lawsuit will just get thrown out. They cutting back production of dram to produce more HBM because it makes them more money. Dram supply dries up, itâs literally supply and demand
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u/CrypticCowboy4509 Jun 30 '26
Letâs be honest though, this DOJ wonât do shit. Hell, theyâll demand a cheaper price and guaranteed supply for the admins projects to look the other way probably
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u/PyroDragons123 Jun 30 '26
The way you fix this is you call the CEOs of the companies to testify in front of Congress. Then you arrest them and put them on criminal trial
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u/darkstar3333 Jun 30 '26
As opposed to a handful of resource or commodity providers in nearly every other sector?
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u/Trollionicle Jun 30 '26
The corporate bootlicking in the comments is really disappointing but unsurprising at this point
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u/Jorwen Ryzen 7 5800X | RX9070XT Sapphire Nitro+ | 32GB DDR4 3400MHz Jun 30 '26
Good. Now fine Samsung, SK Hynix, and Micron double the profit they made by driving up RAM prices. As long as the fine is lower than what they earned, they'll do the same thing again in the future.
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u/Bleezy79 7800X3D | 4070TI | 32gb @ 6400Mhz DDR5 | 3TB M.2 Jun 30 '26
The shittiest part of all this is that even if these companies are found guilty of all the crimes, the consumers wont see any kind of refunds. The people always get shafted. Privatize the profits, socialize the losses.
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u/gbrilliantq Jun 30 '26
After walking into microcenter and seeing rows of ram sticks in stock like there ain't a shortage at all, you either have to assume two things, no one is paying thousands for ram or there ain't a shortage at all and it's not a supply vs demand issue it's just a fucking GREEDY problem.
8tb nvmes are being priced at 3500 dollars now.
3500 fucking dollars.
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u/Magog14 Jun 30 '26
Why hasn't someone else entered the market with 2-4 year old spec ram? I think most people would be happy with the dip in performance for a reasonable price.Â
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u/BananaPalmer PC Master Race Jun 30 '26
I'm a little confused, why is it just DDR3 and DDR4? Why is DDR5 excluded from their claim?
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u/Getherer Jun 30 '26
Good, fuck them over. Cost of ram manufacture is many dozen times lower than current market prices, its most definitely synthetic price action, regardless of ai data centres.
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u/Kazen_Orilg 9850x3D | Arc B580 | 64GB DDR5 Jun 30 '26
I find it hard to believe, it's not like they've ever been convicted of anything like this before....
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u/DayOfReckoner Jun 30 '26
I mean there doesnât appear to be a fundamental shortage, I can buy whatever RAM I want straight off the shelf. For a kidney and my dignity of course.
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u/_T42_ Jun 30 '26
Valve has said if they try and negotiate a lower price suppliers just don't call them back.
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u/SlayerBVC Jun 30 '26
This is amusing to me because, iirc as of last year, RAM prices had gotten so out of control that Samsung couldn't buy RAM from Samsung.
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u/anomanderrake1337 Jun 30 '26
Yeah man rich as fuck companies want to squeeze out more money because why the fuck not.
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u/Kolognial Jun 30 '26
If you had invested in their stocks in last fall you'd be able to afford the ram and you'd have some money to spare.
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u/AppropriateTouching Jul 01 '26
Im glad its a BOMBSHELL that they got BUSTED! I hope they get SLAMMED!
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u/TampaSheCockSucker Jul 01 '26
For them, the small fine (in comparison to the figures being made) is so insignificant to the profits made, that its worth it for them to just pay the fine and do it anyway The only way to stop it is make an example out of them and seize assets however in doing so youd have ppl who know nothing about what they've taken and ruin it even worse making the whole situation catastrophic possibly taking us backwards in technological advancement in the midst of the greatest technology boom in known history
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u/TomTomXD1234 Jun 30 '26
Not the first time.