I think this is really really bad. I played the beta for almost 4 weeks and I fell in love with WoW again after all those years.

Now in the stress test this collection log window popped up. I was suddenly reminded we get these mounts and pets from the bought edition. I had just forgotten about that basically.

But holy moly does that break the immersion of classic+ .. like really. I was fantasizing in the past weeks about the release.. then hitting 40 getting your basic b*tch horse you know.. now these mounts for "free ingame" other than riding lessons is really something. I know it's optional. you don't have to buy it blabla w/e everyone will say to counter a reddit post but man I think this is a really really really bad choice of blizzard. Especially the aestetics being sooo retaily!

I think if we nerf quest exp by like 76%(random lol) it'll really incentivize a lot of the playerbase to get back in dungeons and be more social forming groups. You know, instead of being anti social and just quest spamming on their own all day. So what do you guys think?

I can foresee maybe some people having issue with this, and to those people I ask "did you sincerely like questing to begin with?" I mean if you only play this game for experience to level up I'm not sure you're doing it right. Questing should just be a fun experience it's not the whole game. The meeting stone is the main character in my mind, so let's get everyone back on track to playing the game the right way!

Night elf looks terrible. I play the same character most of the time, night elf female, short hair with ponytail, same face even. She looks so bad in Forever, this can't be ignored at this point. I know some of these things could be due to the character select camera angle which changed in Forever, which NEEDS TO CHANGE BACK, but some things actually had a model change, like her HAIR.

The character select screen pictures are self explanatory, in general everything that made night elves look tough has been softened. shoulders sloped down more, less aggressive posture. just completely soy now.

But When I looked at a random NPC with the male model, I couldn't believe they did the same to him. His skeleton is completely weak now. The last picture I include shows an overlap of the Forever skeleton vs the Classic skeleton on top of each other, complete difference.

I know Blizzard fucked up a lot of the skeletons for the SD models, but this goes past that.

HER HAIR IS NOT THE SAME.

You will only be wearing dungeon blues. Don't even bother with questing for items. Just sell them and buy greens off the AH because they drop at like a 10x rate now and are listed for vendor price.

I know there are a lot of newer MMORPG players here, but grinding has ALWAYS been a huge part of the genre.

I genuinely don't understand some of the arguments defending the dungeon XP nerf in WoW Forever.

I enjoy leveling and progressing my character at a reasonable pace. Sometimes I want to quest, sometimes grind mobs, and sometimes spend hours running dungeons with friends or random groups. Why should any of those playstyles be discouraged?

People keep bringing up min-maxing and "optimizing the fun out of the game," but actual min-maxers will just follow their RestedXP routes and mix in whatever dungeons are worth doing. The irony is that the people complaining about optimization are defending changes that push everyone toward the already optimized questing path.

OLD MMORPGS

• Knight Online: Grinding Harpies, Apostles, and Trolls for hours with a party.
• Lineage II: Camping mobs and grinding spots for hours with friends.
• EverQuest: Dungeon camps, pulling mobs, and farming XP and rare drops.
• Ragnarok Online: Farming High Orcs, Anolians, and Glast Heim.
• MapleStory: Grinding the same maps for hours and forming parties.
• Tibia: Hunting mobs, repeating routes, and farming XP and loot.
• Eudemons Online: Grinding monsters, leveling and composing pets, and farming bosses.
• Conquer Online: Grinding Bird Island, Mystic Castle, and Adventure Zone.
• Guild Wars 1: Farming Underworld, Fissure of Woe, and repeating missions for loot.
• RuneScape: Spending hundreds of hours grinding skills and combat, farming monsters, or completing quests.

This stuff wasn't some exploit or weird min-maxing strategy. It was literally how people played MMORPGs.

And one of the things that made WoW stand out was how incredibly fun and replayable its dungeons were.

Scarlet Monastery, Zul'Farrak, Maraudon, BRD, Stratholme... People WANTED to run these places repeatedly. You'd farm XP, chase gear, meet random players, make friends, and sometimes spend an entire evening with the same group.

That was part of what made Classic special.

Now look at modern MMORPGs like Lost Ark, where meaningful rewards from activities like Chaos Dungeons and Guardian Raids are limited by daily systems, while other content has weekly restrictions. Other games use dungeon tickets, energy systems, and entry limits. Blue Protocol: Star Resonance EWWW!

I don't want that mentality creeping into WoW Forever/classic +, where developers increasingly dictate how players should progress instead of letting them choose and locking them out of rewards! STFU with the reducing xp per runs BULL SHIT that is straight up MOBILE GAME MENTALITY WHAT IS NEXT? MAKE US PAY TO UNLOCK DUNGEON XP GET OUT OF HERE WITH THAT SHII

And if boosting is the concern, the beta already has a separate anti-boosting mechanic that reportedly gives the group zero XP when mobs are grey to a higher-level player. Why punish normal groups too?

Questers lose absolutely nothing from dungeon grinding being viable. Min-maxers will always min-max.

Old-school MMORPGs were about finding content you enjoyed and grinding it while progressing your character. Sometimes that meant questing, sometimes farming mobs, and sometimes running the same dungeon for hours with your friends.

Nobody is asking for dungeon grinding to be the fastest method. We just want it to be rewarding enough to be worth doing.

Since when did people wanting to run your dungeons over and over because they're fun become a problem that needs fixing?

My point is simple: dungeon grinding doesn't need to be the fastest way to level. It just needs to be a viable alternative to questing.

Edit: Fixed Typo

Now that dungeons have been nerfed so much clearly questing and mob XP and Loot out in the world are clearly going to be the optimal way to play. The risk now is players will just solo grind quests like they've always done and no one will be able to enjoy dungeon content socially anymore.

If Blizzard figures this out and nerfs quest XP and Loot then we can of course continue to enjoy questing but it won't all be about how much reward we can get and how quickly we can quest spam our way to 60. I want to be able to enjoy the journey and not just rush to the end. What if, by completing quests, I end up over leveling a dungeon and never get to experience it?

Sorry for people who are going to get upset because they like questing, but if you enjoy it so much then of course you will continue to enjoy it and shouldn't mind the reduced Loot or XP! No one is stopping you from questing after all!

Approved

Seeing a lot of misconceptions here. I've played a ton of retail since shadowlands in particular. Everyone keeps saying "if you want to dungeon level go play retail" and I just want to clarify.

Retail forces you to have their out world quest experience. They don't really let you just dungeon level your first character. You can if you want, but you are still forced to have the questing experience they designed for you, which takes you from the last xpac level to max level. Skipping this restricts you from progressing in the game so it is incredibly suboptimal to dungeon level. And the world scales to your level so there is no benefit to dungeon leveling here, it's just slower. Even on alts dungeon spam is quite a bit slower than questing outside of timewalking events.

I just wanted to clear that up. The correct response to someone who wants to dungeon level is "go back to classic" and not "go back to retail." The "forced" questing experience is more retail-like, whereas Classic was designed more like a sandbox. Please be sure you select the correct dialogue option in the future or the retail police will hand you a citation.

I posted this before using AI, but the post was removed because it was obvious. I’m reposting it in my own words because English isn’t my first language.

I think it would be amazing if we could play Hearthstone inside taverns in WoW Forever. You could sit at a table, challenge other players, place small gold bets, and let people watch. Taverns could become real social hubs instead of just places to log out.

Imagine finishing a dungeon, going to an inn or tavern in Ironforge or other main citya, and playing Hearthstone with someone for 5 gold.

Would you use this feature?

P.s. I don't think the problem is ai but the use that the humans make of it. And the use that I did was to communicate better with all of you.

Haha

Posting here in case it helps anyone else. I see this asked about pretty often and I was wondering myself since I do like higher APM play so I ran the numbers from every current sim just to get a rough idea.

Instead of something like being able to do it once or twice a day for full mob EXP before the mob exp gets nerfed?

I don't want to endlessly spam dungeons and avoid open world questing. But I also want to do dungeons more than once per character, for full EXP. I like mixing dungeons and questing in my journey to 60.

Maybe there could be a quest available for each dungeon that gives enough exp that it would make it feel "worth doing" once a day, but equal with questing exp-wise so it's completely optional. I know classic players recoil in disgust from the idea of repeatable quests, but this would solve the problems of stopping boosting, endless dungeon grinding, and also provide people who enjoy dungeons with the ability to do it more than a single time per character without feeling punished.

This is not a bait post but a genuine question. Apparently it's been stated by a dev that they don't want to change the racials after the game launches, which would imply that the current racials are the ones that the game is going to stick with. Orcs just saw a massive nerf: shatter curse no longer grants immunity and only reduces magic damage taken by 5% (was 15%), blood fury is now on a 3 min cooldown (was 2 min). Undead's WOTF is giga-nerfed (even though all priests get fear ward, which already makes it much less valuable than it was in Classic): it no longer grants immunity and no longer breaks scatter shot, and their damage proc now has a 25-second internal cooldown (making it entirely worthless, like it is in Retail. Seriously don't understand the point of that one when it really wasn't very powerful to begin with). Tauren also lost 1% hit in exchange for 2% critical damage and healing. They received shorter War Stomp and Cultivation cooldowns and some mounted movement speed.

Meanwhile, Humans get 2% crit chance without a weapon restriction, while Orcs get 1%. Dwarves also lose their weapon restriction, Gnomes get a more flexible Eureka that now benefits shields, and Night Elves can stack their racial movement speed with other movement bonuses. That's not even to mention the ridiculous 3% haste passive that Skyborne now have, which now makes the Alliance exclusive Skyborne-mage combo one of the best in the game (Goblins in Retail literally have the exact same racial called "Time is Money", except the Skyborne one is three times better).

Why are the racial changes so heavily Alliance-favored? Several Horde races just had defining combat racials weakened, while Alliance races received broadly positive changes. What is the reasoning behind that direction, especially if the plan is to leave racials largely unchanged after launch?

I think that the devs should be constantly patching the racials until there is a satisfying point of balance, or they should just remove racials entirely at this point. The constantly fluctuating racial tier lists forced players to think less about temporary min-maxxing and instead about what race they'd actually like to play.

Like the title says, instead of the sharded instance wall being right at the entrance of Stormwind, it's been moved a couple hundred feet down towards Goldshire. I was following a group (20 of us) to Hogger, and literally every single one of them Disappeared at a specific point. I'm assuming this is the "cover-up" they've implemented across the map. Extremely disappointing.
It felt like the good old days for a few seconds, following a random group on a world adventure, and then my heart just sank.

They don't know how to fix this. It's absolutely unplayable (To me, at least).

I'm a dad of 3, and there's absolutely no way I'll ever play Forever during the day. I'm sure I'm not the only one here.

And I have to say, this is one of the few things I'm really not looking forward to. WoW looks so much better during daytime, and it feels wrong that I'll basically never get to see it like that. Instead I'll spend every evening squinting at my screen trying to see things in the dark.

Maybe this will get downvoted, I guess a lot of people here have more flexibility with when they play. But for those of us who can only play after work and kids, it really sucks. I'm actually a bit worried it'll end up affecting how much I end up wanting to play.

Would it really be that bad to let people choose between day and night? Or at least have a rotating cycle so we're not stuck with the same time of day forever?

⚠️!!ATTENTION HEALERS!! ⚠️

You are all weaker now. Your spell power has been moved from your spell ranks to dungeon items. You now get weaker as you level without dungeon blues. As a result, you level far slower than hunters, rogues, warriors, etc. Dungeon XP has been nerfed, so doing repeat runs is not worth it for XP- allowing for phys dps to level even faster than you.

Solution? Hard reserve all caster gear or only join melee groups. Since leveling is so much worse for casters, everyone is playing phys dps on the beta. There are plenty of tanks and dps. Kick casters from your group or be sure to HR everything you can wear. You need the items to keep up and players are desparate for healers.

You can do anything you want, they'll be waiting 30 more minutes without you. They have no choice but to join your group and it will fill just as fast 👍

Sincerely, your friendly troll priest

I keep reading people who seem to think the dungeon exp nerf is to push people to only run the dungeon once for the quests.

It is not the case.

You can run the dungeon two times, sometimes three, while you're questing. Either to finish a quest, to grab a piece of gear that will carry you for 6 levels or more, or just to have fun with your guildies.

What you can't do anymore is run the same dungeon over and over ad nauseam because you think it's the best way to rush to max level (which makes zero sense, since the focus is on the journey and a lot of players will just roll a new toon at 60).

Tldr : the exp nerf doesn't prevent you from running dungeons multiple times, it forces you to play the open world game between them.

If that idea is impossible to conceive for you because all you want is the destination, I'm afraid you're not the target audience. Good thing Midnight end game is still really fun and is perfectly adapted to dungeon spammers (Hell, I'm having a ton of fun in retail while I wait for the 4th).

Downvote all you like, but isn’t the idea to slow things down?

I hear you thinking, tanks will not run the dungeon: isn’t there other incentives besides the xp to a dungeon like loot or lore or helping friends?

In fact let me go all in and say that I am way more concerned by how I outlevel a zone before finishing most of the quests there. I would honestly take an xp nerf to quests as well.