r/classicwow • u/Saergaras • 13h ago
Forever You are not supposed to run the dungeons only once.
I keep reading people who seem to think the dungeon exp nerf is to push people to only run the dungeon once for the quests.
It is not the case.
You can run the dungeon two times, sometimes three, while you're questing. Either to finish a quest, to grab a piece of gear that will carry you for 6 levels or more, or just to have fun with your guildies.
What you can't do anymore is run the same dungeon over and over ad nauseam because you think it's the best way to rush to max level (which makes zero sense, since the focus is on the journey and a lot of players will just roll a new toon at 60).
Tldr : the exp nerf doesn't prevent you from running dungeons multiple times, it forces you to play the open world game between them.
If that idea is impossible to conceive for you because all you want is the destination, I'm afraid you're not the target audience. Good thing Midnight end game is still really fun and is perfectly adapted to dungeon spammers (Hell, I'm having a ton of fun in retail while I wait for the 4th).
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u/ApolloMk2 13h ago
I love healing dungeons, and to ME that's more fun than solo leveling a Priest. I'm happy to do a lot of questing too, but I would have liked to dungeon grind and not be penalized for it. It's a play style choice for many people. You're making lots of assumptions about how others enjoy playing.
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u/fuax19 13h ago
What you can't do anymore is run the same dungeon over and over ad nauseam because you think it's the best way to rush to max level
Thanks for reading my mind and knowing what I think in regards to why I like to run dungeons as a levelling style.
In reality tho I just like to Tank PuG groups and make friends, all the best though.
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u/McSwoopyarms 12h ago
In reality tho I just like to Tank PuG groups and make friends
"BuT yOu CaN sTiLl Do ThAt"
The trick is to not even bother reasoning with these people.
Just keep making noise. Aggrend already stated that he wants dungeon levelling to be an alternative, just not the best one. We just gotta make sure the changes following that statement are sufficient.
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u/fuax19 12h ago
The amount of slop responses you get to actual concerns across all platforms now is mental. Idk how Blizzard has brainwashed all these people into bootlickers.
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u/siyahlater 12h ago
The blizz defenders haven't figured out that "slower leveling" isn't the same as horizontal progression or more content.
Or that the devs have walked that back in the blog posts/videos and admit it's back to the same ol' hamster wheel of gear.
This process/game is already solved. So instead of admitting that and giving us classic with sprinkles on top we are trading the waffle cone for a wax bowl and soggy paper spoon to "smell the roses" that some of us have been sniffing since 2004.
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u/Saergaras 13h ago
You can still do that?
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u/Feistyonion1092 13h ago
Its not worth it anymore
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u/Saergaras 13h ago
Define worth it. If I'm having fun, it's worth it, and I'll level eventually
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u/External-Presence204 13h ago edited 13h ago
Nerf world xp by 70%, then. You’ll have even more fun.
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u/Saergaras 13h ago
I'd be down for a slower experience... It's not like there are a ton of things to do once you hit 60 anyway.
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u/External-Presence204 13h ago
I’d bet a lot of Reddit “sure, I’d level more slowly” would rage at the sky irl with a 70% cut to world xp.
I’m not saying that you’re lying, per se, but that’s the way I would bet.
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u/Feistyonion1092 13h ago
Getting enough experience to make it worth my time when there are no quests left for a dungeon. If i go run the dungeon and my buddy quests he is going to get way more experience then i got for the same amount of time. No one is saying to make it faster then questing. But it needs to give enough experience to make it worth it to take the time away from questing so i am not way behind my buddies if they dont want to run it.
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u/scotaloo7 12h ago
You can still quest in the open world even if dungeon exp is better, but that doesn't matter to you, does it?
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u/Accomplished-Bag-273 13h ago
Yet you are lying. It was never even close to the fastest. No relevant item lasts for 6 levels that we have seen either
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u/SavingsRaspberry2694 13h ago
You can literally tank pugs to kill murlocs for questing too. Just because world mobs are normal doesn't mean you can't have be a tank on the open world.
Bottom line is Blizzard wants people in the open world separated from each other in the sharing system.
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u/fuax19 13h ago
Very true, killing murlocs in Dustwallow requires the same amount of group coordination/cooperation and commuincation as RFK.
Rational take.
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u/SavingsRaspberry2694 12h ago
Its not about teaching people coordination and communication, its about being out in the world.
People can learn coordination, tanking, healing, etc. at level 60 when they start raiding.
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u/fuax19 12h ago
No mate, my point was its not very challenging or engaging tanking a group of murlocs compared to the level of coordination and cooperation needed for levelling via dungeons.
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u/SavingsRaspberry2694 12h ago
And I am saying Blizzard doesn't want people engaging in challenging or engaging activities. They want people running open world quests all following the same path and experiencing the open world separated from fellow players in the sharing system.
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u/Kevo_1227 13h ago
You can literally still do that
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u/reenactment 13h ago
You can level and make friends in dungeons as a tank where it offers no experience?
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u/WrongOpinionOnly 13h ago
You still get experience
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u/censuur12 13h ago
Sure, and I can shit on your burger and you still get a burger! Great stuff but maybe we can do without the shit.
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u/No_Air_9599 13h ago
Crazy thought here, maybe he wasn’t talking about it if it doesn’t apply to you?
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u/2slowforanewname 13h ago
Thanks for telling me how I have to play the game dad. Put the blue trail in for me next please.
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u/sem-nexus 13h ago
I agree with the concept but the implementation is wrong. Sometimes i do want to weave a few dungeons into my questing, and i dont want to be discouraged from playing a dungeon twice, or skipping mobs
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u/Mysterious_Touch_285 13h ago
Forcing people into one game mode is bad design choice.
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u/Zeko10 11h ago
Exactly and its annoying the devs even came out and said they dont want to force people to play a certain way then turn around and pull this shit. They want us to socialize in the outside world but questing is usually solo grinding, dungeons you play and communicate with others
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u/Mysterious_Touch_285 11h ago
"We want to encourage social interaction. We will not make that interaction positive in the overworld, and we will make the social content feel bad to do." Yeah, its crazy.
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u/eilrah26 13h ago
Remember when people used to play this game to have fun. Dungeons are meant to be fun
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u/Reejis99 12h ago
It has never been the case, ever, that WoW was just some cozy game where no one cared about gaining levels while leveling up. "Ding, grats!" has been the heart of wow since 2004
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u/Cheesedude666 12h ago
Imagine to have fun while also moving forward on the leveling journey. Now we have to chose between either having fun and the exp bar not moving, or do boring as quests but have the benefit of the exp bar moving.
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u/ManufacturerMajor899 10h ago
People said the same shit about dungeon grinding.
Before it felt like I was missing out on progress if I was not cleave spamming through SM, even if breaking it up with quests would be more fun. Now its the other way around, big deal.
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u/eilrah26 11h ago
That's your problem. What are you playing the game for, to watch an exp bar go up? People play and read the quests and enjoy them, same with dungeons. Sometimes it feels like people play the game but don't actually like playing what the game is.
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u/McSwoopyarms 11h ago
This is so disingenuous.
99% of players who do quests while leveling do so primarily because the quests grant exp. That's why most people skip grey quests. Are you claiming these people "don't actually like playing what the game is", because they would rather not do content that does not give them exp?
Yes, some people do in fact play the game to watch an exp bar go up. Because some people have a goal set in their mind - raiding, PvP, or maybe just making it to 60 and unlocking the full potential of their character - and "watching that exp bar go up" actually brings them closer to that goal. No need to talk about gaining exp like it's something filthy.
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u/konose77 13h ago
Yeah man! Lets nerf quest and world mob xp 80%. Wont keep us from doing those. They are so fun!
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u/Puckett52 13h ago
Dungeons were just a cool way for me and my friends to level together. Even if some of us were 3-4 levels ahead or behind we could still group up.
Questing together is fun too be required much more coordination to leave a zone alone for all of us.
We are some parse chasers too, so speeding through dungeons and pulling as many mobs as efficiently as possible was a great time. Sad to see it go
The 1-60 journey, for my group at least, will be less fun for this change. And we still used to do a fair amount of questing on our own
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u/ASaGHost 12h ago
The incentive for running dungeons has been greatly diminished. This will make it even more time consuming to run them because it will be harder and take longer to find groups. Fewer people will heal overall because questing as a healer is usually the slowest possible option, and the general health of the game will be a lot worse for it.
But yeah, cope more I guess.
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u/siyahlater 13h ago
"We've taken the player choice out of the sandbox experience! This is definitely not a slide towards guard rails and a theme park design."
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u/landyc 13h ago
I don’t think wow is a sandbox experience to be fair
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u/Cheesedude666 11h ago
You can definitely argue that classic wow is more on the sandbox scale when comparing it to retail which is a complete theme park experience. And moving foreverwow more in that direction is obviously a terrible choice. Unless of course they aim for a whole new audience
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u/ManufacturerMajor899 12h ago
How does this remove player choice?
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u/Reejis99 12h ago
Wow has always had two ways to level. This version has one.
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u/ManufacturerMajor899 10h ago
I have always leveled through a mix of questing and dungeons with, as time has gone on, a tilt towards dungeons.
It looks like in Forever, I'll be leveling by questing and dungeons again, but with a tilt towards questing. Crazy change that is.
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u/Reejis99 10h ago
You, personally, feeling unaffected doesn't really have a single thing to do with player choice, does it?
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u/ManufacturerMajor899 10h ago
I dont agree with the idea that you HAVE to have a choice to be able to purely grind dungeons for dozens of levels either. Perfectly fine with not being able to sit in SM the entire mid game, and yes, I get others might feel differently, and I think they're wrong. Or that their outrage is a nothingburger, however you want to put it. I get why Blizz is trying to balance things this way and Im fine with giving it a try.
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u/Reejis99 10h ago
But objectively speaking, player choice has been reduced
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u/ManufacturerMajor899 10h ago
Idk, I'll let you know if the dungeons dont let me in when I choose to do them.
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u/Reejis99 9h ago
You're being obtuse
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u/ManufacturerMajor899 8h ago
Yes I am lol, So is anyone running around parroting that "BLIZZARD IS REMOVING PLAYER CHOICE!!!!" like its some cardinal sin. So are you ignoring everything else I said and responding with "so its objectively taking away player choice?" Because all you care about is being technically right on reddit.
The whole point youre making is a nothing burger. Theres definitely a real conversation to be had about the nerfs but the idea that its just straight up negative to do so, purely because it doesnt give a player the "choice" between dungeons spam and questing isnt one of them. Removing choice from players is not inherently bad, its what game balance is half the time.
For example, something is too strong and gets removed from the game, thus objectively bringing a net positive to the gaming experience - is this just a negative thing to you because it removed the players ability to choose to use it? Games do this constantly, how many items have been introduced and removed from wow, league, etc over the years? How many reworked? If you cant aay anything else other than the bare bottom line that its technically taking away player choice then you have a nothingburger argument.
You can still run dungeons, but yes you cant choose to spam dungeons from 15-60 and you have to quest in the open world more now. I think thats a fine choice to take away from people given what it incentivizes.
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u/Rackarunge 13h ago
This playerbase is obsessed with telling people how they should play.
No one cares dude. People will play however they want while you stomp your feet “noooo you are running too fast”
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u/Dlldozer 13h ago
Why do the rest of us have to suffer because of some idiots who grind the fun out of the game for themselves?
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u/Desperate-Lobster383 13h ago
Why are the devs forcing me to play a game they claim is open world a specific way?
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u/Disembowell 12h ago
Because “open world” is the opposite of “dungeon spam”; they want you to explore and do stuff & meet new players instead of looting the same musty crypt for the 20th time
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u/Spiritual_Path_850 12h ago
Looting the crypt is far more social, who the fucj even talks when grouping for quest in 2026 lets be real
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u/Desperate-Lobster383 12h ago
Why cant I loot the dusty crypt 20 times with 29 different groups of players?
Why dont the devs want me to do this?
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u/Osvtv 13h ago
The biggest issue isn’t that it’s optimal to quest (spoiler alert, it always was), it’s that even with dungeon quests you’re going slower by doing dungeons.
Want to level as a healer or a tank? Go ahead, you’ll just reach 60 in 10 months.
Want to have some fun shooting shit with your guild mates in discord and do an activity together? Go ahead, but your character will barely progress.
The issue is that people like you try to tell others how to enjoy a game. I personally love the vanilla endgame, it’s why I play classic. And people like me are obviously the target audience as we will stick around and keep paying our sub, the issue is that we aren’t incetivized to actually group up for anything before the endgame now.
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u/matt1918 13h ago
Tell that to the 60%+ exp reduction. Stop the farce blizzard. Why go out of your way to dumpster my favorite way to play the game? Why am I punished for playing socially with my friends?? I don’t want questing to lose 60% exp but a lot of questers want me to lose this exp.
And FYI I am not a dungeon spammer 15-60, I just like grouping up with my friends when we get bored from solo questing. When that happens we spam some dungeons for a few hours so you know we can actually play together. Crazy I know. Blizzard ruining the game one change at a time.
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u/Traumagw 13h ago
This might be true for level 50+ dungeons where the gear is meaningful but leveling dungeons are still 0-1 runs depending on the number of quests available to your faction.
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u/Aggravating_Plate847 13h ago
Nice blog post! 👌
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u/Saergaras 13h ago
Sometimes you have to say stuff outloud lmao
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u/qmcneil02 13h ago
Frankly I’m glad you posted this, because I was thinking the same thing. Like sure dungeon exp was great and all but gear was my other reason for doing dungeons . Not just exp
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u/Calm-Inevitable3341 13h ago
spamming dungeons is wrong, you’re supposed to level with quests so you can buy the streamer against-ToS addon
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u/Arkainerpls 12h ago
According to my character personal lore once I've cleared it once there's no more reason to go again.
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u/CrescendoTwentyFive 12h ago
I feel like there are some dungeons that have a drop rate quest that between you and allies, you won’t get done on a single run.
But that could partially be because nobody clears dungeons anymore. Every dungeon has an optimal path of least encounters that seemingly everyone but myself has memorized.
Enter - fast track bosses - bounce immediately. As a casual player I genuinely miss when it took like 3 hours and 4 wipes to clear deadmines lol
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u/KamikazePenguiin 13h ago
Or hear me out.. I run it once to finish my quest, and instead of worrying about hear I simply quest to out level it in a few hours anyways.
mAYBeE at higher levels that might hold true. But the lower level you are the less likely that will be the case.
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u/Fluid_Swordfish2737 13h ago
My argument against the XP nerf is now it pushes more players into the open world.
This is a negative not a positive that they are trying to spin it as.
Now there is more competition for profession resources, quest mobs (not the kind you group for) and quests where you have to gather items.
All of these will be more crowded, thus slowing down the experience for everyone.
Also, I feel healers and tanks really benefit from leveling in dungeons because they can get a good grip of their role and how their class interacts with other classes in group content that the open world grouping does not provide.
I would rather go into raids with people that are well versed in group content on their class/role than someone that leveled their whole way to 60 in open world and only ran a few dungeons for quests.
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u/Disembowell 13h ago
That would one the case if the megaserver architecture didn’t increase respawn times for heavily farmed mobs, or create new instances for them. There’s not as much competition as it would seem.
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u/Fluid_Swordfish2737 12h ago
That is a whole separate issue too!
The sharding/layering is immersion breaking.
I can't stand when in exploring and the people around me suddenly get raptured by the megaserver layering.
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u/Archer19881 13h ago
This would make sense if raids were not coming on Dec 9th.
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u/Saergaras 13h ago
Oh my god. You won't gonna be the first to clear the raid. You're going to lose the race (?)
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u/Ok_Effective1627 10h ago
I understand your aggression, but there is only one chance to play the new raids without guide, meta, mandatory addons completely ruining the whole raiding experience, because even just a week later you will be expected to know the bosses and install any mandatory addons or at least watch some guides.
That said, usually blizzard already spoils the new raids by doing PTR's for them, so we end up having to play it on the PTR to experience the raids first hand.
I know it's hard to imagine that anybody could have different goals, and find different things fun, or may play the game differently.
Ps.: Currently blizzard encoded all the raid loot too, so getting to experience new raid drops will be incredible too. So you won't even have BiS lists going into the raid first week.
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u/Disembowell 13h ago
I think modern players still think they can become minor celebrities on their server for standing AFK in capital cities wearing raid gear… that was the case 22 years ago but not anymore.
If I see raid gear now I just think “cool, hope it drops for me”, instead of “holy s**t look at this guy! what a god!”
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u/Spiritual_Path_850 12h ago
Ppl want to raid log more than afk in cities and its a healthy thing btw
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u/Roxyfoxy88 13h ago
Well... you do understand that its the response to all the whining about dungeon exp, so obviously you are gonna hear that phrase 70 times a day when there are 70 posts a day about dungeon exp.
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u/dungorthb 13h ago
What flags your character having finished the dungeon? When does the game know you completed the dungeon?
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u/Full-Somewhere440 13h ago
Personally it’s a weird middle ground for me, coming from Doomhowl. Having dungeons accessible once a day makes the run feel really impactful. Allows for fully efficient xp. And gets you with a broader range of players, rather than making one group and re running. The rule set is wild success on Doomhowl.
I feel like someone at blizzard was like but but, what if I want to run a dungeon I’ve already completed with my friends????!!???!?
And so they made this new system. Which yeah is a bit less friction but it’s really confusing that you HAVE to have the quests for their to be any reason to go.
Hopefully the old system is left intact on the HC server release.
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u/Disembowell 12h ago
Gear upgrades are a primary reason to go. In fact I’d say gear upgrades are the only reason to do dungeons, quests have always been bonus XP on the side.
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u/Arcael_Boros 13h ago
I would like to know how many dungeons they added pre lv50. Like if there are like 5-10 new dungeons? Sure, nerf the xp, buff the dungeon quest xp and players will try to do at least each dungeon once, thats better than just spam the same dungeon.
It would be nice if something like: you have to do some quest chain in the world to get the dungeon quest, them the dungeon quest give a lot of xp. Move to another dungeon zone and start again. Like an alternative leveling path to just doing world quest, it can be great if you have a group of 4-5 friends that want to do that.
But I dont like the perma spaming of the same dungeon just to gain xp, thats not about dungeons gameplay, thats just the path of least resistant to level up. Well, its no longer that path.
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u/Cheesedude666 12h ago
Another fool who wants to point out that it's still physically possible to run a dungeon more than once? I swear to god I don't know what's wrong with these people and why they are so invested into the dungeon nerf.
I literally have friends who won't start playing wowforever because of the dungeon nerf. We already quested 100s of times, we don't care about it. On top of that the world is sharded and it's never going to be the main character in this state. They should promote more dungeonplay at this rate
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u/reenactment 11h ago
What I’ve learned about the pro dungeon nerf players in wow. There are either a lot of liars or a lot of masochists. Or they like playing single player games. Because none of their opinions really hold up.
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u/jet_black_nips 9h ago
So what is your solution for people that play with 4 friends? I've leveled with the same 5 man group in every release of wow since 2019. For the first time since then, we've decided to split into a duo and trio for the simple reason there is no shared loot for quests which makes gathering quests take a literal hour with tag competition. Idc if they revert the dungeon xp or add shared loot but it's gotta be one or the other. Can't just say fuck you to everybody that wants to level with friends
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u/drankseawater 13h ago
technically you can still level in dungeons, just would take a lot longer :)
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u/Fourfifteen415 13h ago
A second pass just isn't worth it, I ran the dungeons for gear in beta. I can firmly say I'll do them for the quests but certainly not for the gear. I'm also not bothering with Wetlands, I spent more time running there than in the actual dungeon.
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u/Accomplished-Bag-273 13h ago
What piece of gear in the dungeons available in the level 30 beta lasts for 6 levels except rings and trinkets due yo the low availability at those levels?
Why Add super rare chase items if im according to you, the uninformed intellectually dishonest narcissist, meant to run it twice or thrice?
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u/Joszitopreddit 13h ago
You can answer a question that's been on my mind for a while: how does a boot taste?
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u/FlubberPuddy 13h ago
I appreciate this post, unfortunately this sub is dedicated to Classic Andy min-max hyper efficiency raid loggers because that's how they came to play Classic over the past several years with already solved servers.
They can't understand not being hyper efficient and that's the hardest part for a lot of these people.
The whole aim the dev team is trying to do with these changes is encourage people to socialize with randoms not stick with the same few people or groups you know.
That's why when they spoke about raiding and the different sizes they said 40 mans will be relegated to "just invite whoever's online", they already know by accumulating player data how the greater audience actually plays their games despite everyone's anecdotes.
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u/NotAndyBurnham 13h ago
You socialise 100x more in dungeons than you do whilst questing so this makes no sense.
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u/Arkainerpls 12h ago
Wtf are you even talking about?
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u/NotAndyBurnham 12h ago
If you’re too stupid to understand what I said I’m not sure I can really help you.
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u/TroubledMarket 13h ago
this reads like someone who has never played the game
nobody socializes while doing quests
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u/Disembowell 13h ago
They used to, it was great. Made lifelong friends decades ago simply talking while doing quests without trying to rush to the end of it.
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u/FlubberPuddy 12h ago
People still do, a lot of the zones have quests worth grouping for and people socialize for them often.
If someone wants to be an anti-social person that only does solo quests and skips the group/elite quests that's on them.
Nothing Blizzard would do would change them being that anti-social, thus there's no point in catering to that type of player and the devs know that.
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u/Appropriate_Front740 13h ago
You can level 1 or 2 character and explore, anymore is boring and here dungeon came, and exp nerfed....
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u/Dontfrown 13h ago
So why do you run dungeons at level 60?
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u/Unable-Garage593 13h ago
Spamming dungeons is wrong, clearly that is why I only need to do two runs each of Strat, Scholo and UBRS and I'm fully pre-raid bis!!
/s
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u/mrniceguy1990xp 13h ago edited 13h ago
Most quests will be done after the first run, doing a 2. run for a quest or two wont be worth it... and to run dungeons multiple times for specific gear also wont be worth it since itll generally take too long to drop so youll get better gear faster by just leveling way faster and then take higher level greens.
So yea, anything beyond 1 run is literally not worth the time just for a single quest or gear.
Ps: most dont care about dungeon spamming until max level, they just want it to not be a waste of time to do dungeons more than once.
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u/Liteseid 13h ago
Some dungeon quests also take two or three runs. You’re correct and W take. Sorry for downvotes
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u/External-Presence204 13h ago
The xp nerf doesn’t “prevent” it. It just highly disincentivizes it. It’s absolutely the case that fewer people will run multiple times.