r/classicwow • u/matt1918 • 11h ago
Forever Beta Feedback Revert Dungeon EXP changes.
Just fighting the good fight again. Punishing players who want to group up and play with friends is wrong and feels bad.
Not to mention issues like potentially lowering the amount of tanks and healers who want to get into dungeon and group content because they can no longer level via dungeons effectively.
You think you are stopping the boosters and super sweats in their tracks, but you are mistaken. The sweats will just sweat to 60 anyway they can.
You are hurting the average gamer who just likes running dungeons for a few hours here and there with friends when they want a break from solo questing. Actual social gameplay is being punished here and it’s sad.
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u/Vivid_Succotash_6298 11h ago
This is normally how i level once i get within a level range where dungeons are available.
Quest until i am bored and want to do something else, so i swap to dungeons.
Do dungeons until im bored and go back to questing again.
Now im not saying this is the pattern everyone follows, but to say that everyone is a mage booster, or someone who is gonna sit in a dungeon 24/7, or is mad because you cant get boosted anymore, is just hyperbole from people with an opposite agenda.
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u/Gassenger 7h ago
I dont get why some people are SO mad that others play differently. I don't get the r14 grind, but I dont want that taken away from people that like it
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u/ThatLeetGuy 3h ago
People who are pro dungeon nerf play solo. They don't play with friends. They don't socialize. They don't group with people. They just want to quest solo and follow a paid addon that tells them what to do and where to go.
They hate the idea that other people who do play with friends have more fun content to do with other people and they feel left out, so they want everyone to be directed to play the game the same way that they play the game.
They are genuinely happy that this makes other people upset, because they are miserable having to live with the idea that other people get enjoyment where they are unable to.
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u/Famtan101 5h ago
This is how my retail guild and I have played on private servers or other iterations of classic. Much more enjoyable to bounce between both options rather than slam our heads against a wall trying to get raptor heads for 5 people.
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u/monkorn 3h ago
This is what I hope is the ideal for the dev team. I hope they eventually hit this target.
For example, they might introduce a new form of rested XP, separate from the existing rested XP, that you earn on kills in dungeons, that you can only burn through by killing stuff in the world.
Would fit this model perfectly, earning exactly as much XP as this play-style would have earned in vanilla.
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u/RemarkableShip1811 2h ago
If there was a limit, sure, though in that case you'd be basically saying 'its okay to do dungeons for exactly 50% of your progression' which I think is still a bit off from 'we want people experiencing the world'. I do think this is probably the closest thing to a compromise I've seen though, good job.
If they took a page from OSRS, you'd get some sort of progression track per dungeon that encourages you, to say, do 3 full clears to unlock everything, one of the rewards you could spend points on would be the blue exp if you don't want items, that would also resolve the complaints of 'without xp if I don't get a drop I feel like I wasted my time' because you would still be getting some form of dungeon guarantee.
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u/deathblooms2k4 7h ago
And the irony is the sharding and layering completely kills social aspects of open world questing.
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u/ILikeToTinker 10h ago
For me its just having a chill time with my friends and leveling without the overcrowded swarm of people that inevitably happens in the open world.
Fighting for tags, waiting 5-10 minutes for names npcs to respawn, waiting for other peoples RPs to complete. Its NOT fun.
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u/vowelqueue 6h ago
The game has a bad negative feedback loop where when an area gets contended it makes people less likely to want to group up due to the number of quest items that aren't shared. It's to the point where if you have 3 people on a Discord who want to play together than going out in the open world is incredibly painful, it takes forever to get all the quest items you need.
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u/Gassenger 7h ago
This. I prefer the coziness of it with buds. And not the frustration of competing for 5 spawns when you need 10 enemies and there's 4 other groups/people trying for them. Super annoying
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u/Zub- 11h ago edited 9h ago
I just did a full run of City of Dalaran and got about 3 bars of xp.
It took little over an hour waiting to get a tank (I’m healer) and waiting for them to get there. Then it took nearly an hour doing the actual dungeon (we had to replace a guy who left due to his quest being done).
I’m pretty sure I could have gotten more than 3 bars of xp in 2 hours doing quests, but I love the social aspect of dungeons, just wish it was more rewarding.
Edit:
All these excuses "it's the end of beta" "why go if you already did the quests"
It took long because people sign up from all over the world, so it takes time for everyone to get there.
And why go dungeon if I already did the quests?
Because i want to. I enjoy healing dungeons. Why must dungeoneers be punished? If dungeons is viable - what exactly is taken away from you as a player who enjoys solo questing? why can't both be viable?
I don't understand this dungeon hate. If people enjoy RP'ing, be my guest, even if it's not my jam, it doesn't ruin anything for me.
Go have fun and play how you want to play!
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u/Strong_Mode 11h ago
you could have gotten more than 3 bars of xp in 30 mins just wanding mobs
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u/FRBafe 10h ago
Could've got more xp finding a locket at the bottom of the nearby lake @ Redridge
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u/foomits 10h ago
just make sure you invite 4 others to be social.
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u/mcbaginns 6h ago
Also make sure to pm some Minmaxers and tell them to go back to retail for not enjoying their journey in a specific way
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u/red_admin_h8r 10h ago
Unless of course 25 people randomly get sharded onto you also looking for the locket and grab the single loot random respawn item first
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u/Wooden-Gur3537 11h ago
2 hours is an entire level at level 30.
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u/meepinz 7h ago
Yep.
If you do a dungeon and low roll a group, like OP, and your friend just continues to quest, your friend will be 1-2 levels above you, probably with better gear too.
WoW:Fuckedforever.
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u/Teph_1234 11h ago
The insane part is blizzards comparison is xp/h once you are doing the dungeon. Ignoring the travel time. Slacking teammates or DC's and replacements.
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u/xXDamonLordXx 6h ago
It's worse than that. They're doing XP/hr on perfect spellcleave AoE pulls.
For most players this is unobtainable levels of sweat.
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u/JannySmasher98 5h ago
Aggrends fat dwarf paladin ass was denied into a sm spellcleave run and he has been salty asf about it ever since. This is the result
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u/TypicalOranges 10h ago
Honestly they should align xp/hr with what a planned premade does on average. Otherwise hyper efficient spams would eclipse questing xp/hr. I guess you could do lockout timings specifically tailored to an xp/hr hardcap but either way.
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u/roflsocks 8h ago
The problem is there is such a massive difference in clear times between an optimal cleave group speedrunning the dungeon, and 99.9% of other dungeon groups. If you balance so the best possible dungeon runs are about equal to an easily attainable quest route, in practice it’s going to be abysmal dungeon xp for everyone else.
Which is why they shouldn’t balance for the top performers. It’s such a small percentage of players, they don’t really matter.
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u/TypicalOranges 8h ago
The problem is there is such a massive difference in clear times between an optimal cleave group speedrunning the dungeon, and 99.9% of other dungeon groups. If you balance so the best possible dungeon runs are about equal to an easily attainable quest route, in practice it’s going to be abysmal dungeon xp for everyone else.
Yeah I would advocate for Lockout Timers to be balanced in such way to enforce a hardcap in XP/HR to fix that.
Which is why they shouldn’t balance for the top performers. It’s such a small percentage of players, they don’t really matter.
(5) Strongly Agree.
I don't understand why the game so frequently gets worse for 99% of the playerbase to keep the 1% jumping through optimization hoops. I don't really care if world first 60 happens faster or slower via questing or dungeoning. I don't think it matters at all.
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u/eXVraW5ha2FtdXJh 11h ago
that sounds thrilling. Basically zero progress but felt real social.
they did a good job murdering dungeons I'll give them that
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u/mcbaginns 6h ago
No you're not allowed to like healing dungeons with groups of 4 other people, often in voice chat unlike in game that is solo with text only.
It's antisocial! Your wow journey is objectively wrong! Go back to retail!
/s
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u/Cloudsbro 10h ago
That is so sad man, 3 bars of exp for forming a team and travel time to fight elite mobs and bosses. Talk about a BAD feeling.
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u/S1cnus 9h ago
You and I are Tank and Heals. Most players do DPS. Most DPS don't like Tanks or Heals getting "Easy mode" to max level (dungeon spamming) So they are the most / biggest cry babies and hate that we could just run dungeons over and over to level. It's just the way it is. They are going to be the loudest voices, soooo XP nerfs :(
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u/beatenmeat 9h ago
Those same DPS will be crying in a week when there is a shortage beyond normal as heals/tanks won't want to repeat dungeons for zero gain.
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u/ttgjailbreak 7h ago
They aren't smart enough to think what it'll look like a few weeks after launch, when everyone's experienced them the one time or gotten to 60. I can totally see a future where no-one is trying to wait 40 minutes to form a dalaran group and everyone just gives up on running the instances due to a lack of players. It sounds great /s.
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u/GoblinsProblem 11h ago
While I’m not defending Bliz and think they should indeed revert changes. It is the last day of beta could be why you can’t get a group
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u/Zub- 10h ago
I had a group, just had to wait the usual time for everyone to get to the actual dungeon, because people sign up while they're questing all over the world.
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u/dojimathug 11h ago
Druids are totally going to halt their leveling for however many hours it takes to farm the set from Wailing Caverns so they can be a snake for 5 levels. You don’t need xp!!!!!!!
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u/Cloudsbro 10h ago
Some people actually think this way is the crazy part - snake man until you get a green in the next zone thats way better. Anyone who thinks they are actually going to do this is larping.
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u/red_admin_h8r 9h ago
In fact anyone whose goal is to hit 60 in a reasonable time frame AND get snake set to afk in sw/org will do it at 60 when it’s a 10 min stealth run
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u/Cloudsbro 9h ago
If it ends up being a cosmetic thing you can toggle on like fire cat from firelands then yeah going back at 60 makes the most sense to be fair
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u/Remote_Page8799 11h ago
I like doing dungeons for gear and I also like questing. But I wish the XP for dungeons was a bit higher
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u/javz 10h ago
Because it feels better, at least for me. It’s not like there is just one fun element, I enjoy the combination of feeling decent leveling progression + RNG chance of loot + chance of meeting new people, that’s my fun in dungeons. Take away or nerf one to oblivion and I probably won’t be doing dungeons more than once.
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u/itsablackhole 8h ago edited 8h ago
I mean let's be real we all enjoy dungeons more because open world questing on a fresh mega server is literal hell. Blizz just wants everyone to go through that hell and not have a good chunk of gamers escape it. The new system creates a very even playing field atleast gotta give them that.
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u/Whitechix 11h ago
They are weirdly stubborn with this change despite feedback, it’s just going to be one of those things that was completely clueless looking back after they inevitably revert it. I’m just hoping it doesn’t take them too long, I only level my tank and heal alts in dungeons mostly. It won’t get changed before release imo so we have to just deal.
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u/Federal-Tie30 11h ago
I’m guessing the dungeons will be good for the first play through, assuming there are quests to do. After that, better to just quest?
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u/Strong_Mode 11h ago
there are apparently some dungeons not even worth doing for the quests. quest items have such abysmally low drop rates a group of 5 often doesnt finish getting their drops, and nobody wants to loop back around for a 2nd run anyways.
the loot, even prenerf, wasnt worth subsequent runs to do to begin with most of the time, because it all just gets replaced by a quest green tomorrow anyways
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u/Fussinfarkt 11h ago
Wailing Caverns can take up to 3 runs to collect all your deviate hides, if you’re unlucky. Especially since you’ll have to probably look for a new group each time, meaning there are new people who haven’t done the quest yet. Luckily you can collect them outside too. But for other collection quests in dungeons, I can see it getting rough
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u/LandBeforeTimeOnVHS 9h ago
And good luck getting the flowers as the tank lol
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u/JawKneeSense 8h ago
FYI all serpentbloom in the dungeon fully respawns after the druid escort, if you book it at the end you can probably snag enough by running around the dungeon
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u/Cloudsbro 11h ago
For Alliance there are a handful of dungeons without quests that are absolutely worthless to do unless you want to spend 40 minutes running somewhere for a chance at gear you are going to out level in 15 quests.
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u/Tootsiez 11h ago
If your goal is to level as fast as possible. Yes.
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u/Reejis99 5h ago
My guess is if you're dps just skip dungeons entirely if your goal is to level as quickly as possible
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u/Excellent-Bag-9725 10h ago
I hope they do change it. I was planning to roll priest but this change in particular is sapping my will to return. I’m having fun with d4 maybe I’ll just stick with that.
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u/Gassenger 7h ago
Agreed! I am really gonna miss being able to keep a solid group of new friends together for 2-3 runs on the same dungeon and make them friends for forever! People that group up on open world questing are so ephemeral, stick with you for more like 5% of the time, and generally don't strike up a conversation. When you spend 2 hours with people, you are gonna make friends.
Please, please revert it or AT LEAST make it so that its not a complete waste of time. Even if its 75% as efficient as questing, that's a big dubya if youre frustrated about not getting tags on open world and want to just get your level for the day in a dungeon.
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u/dinobotta 11h ago
Blizzard has nerfed boosting in dungeons, which was the main issue. They should let us casuals run dungeons if we are tired of solo questing.
It is the social fabric of the game and removing the xp causes unintended results: Tank/healer shortages due to no reason to do 2 or 3 runs each dungeon. People skip content in dungeons if someone didnt pick up the quest for some mob/boss. People missing quest items. People that missed quest items sign up for another group but leave after getting those 3 missing items...
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u/elysiansaurus 11h ago
Im not even a dungeon leveler but I agree. I use them when I get bored of questing but if theres no point to even doing a dungeon I'll just log off instead.
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u/red_admin_h8r 9h ago
Getting bored of questing? Might as well go to an inn, log off, and get rxp than running a dungeon you’ve already done the quest line for.
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u/Nesqu 10h ago
It'll change how I approach early dungeons, or any dungeon with random drops of any kind. Stuff like Serpentbloom, Troll Temper, Dark Iron scrap.
They just wont be enjoyable to participate in doing, so it's less painful to just skip those dungeons and only do dungeons with guaranteed kill quests.
Also, unless they've changed Maradon's quests, that place will be miserable with outside quests, various indoor quests with a 6+ level mob difference. I suppose it'll just be boiled down to doing princess runs for the guaranteed kill, while skipping all the optional bosses cause... They give 0 exp XDD
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u/red_admin_h8r 9h ago
Yeah this design incentive of 1 run and done for quests is antithetical to many of the old classic designs that have enormous level spreads and intended to run in various parts. Uldaman, mara, BRD all great examples. Isn’t Uldaman already an 8 level spread or something? BRD as big as 11 I think the dogs are like 48 in jail?
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u/Lonnar88 10h ago
The only time I had an absolute blast while leveling was with a healer leveling to max level almost entirely in dungeons. I skipped every annoying quest in the rest of the content, picking only the fun or rewarding quests.
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u/TotallyRadTV 8h ago
As a healer I'm not even going to waste my time healing a dungeon in my leveling spec (not fun) if the nerf isn't reverted. It takes too long to get a group and get to the dungeon just for a single run that might not even drop enough quest items.
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u/KittyKupo 7h ago
I like to focus on one role per character, and level them that way. My healers level by healing, tanks by tanking, and dps would be my quest characters (and dps dungeons too). I’m probably going to mainly play dps if I’m going to be primarily questing.
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u/reeferbiscuit 11h ago edited 9h ago
Yes please. I dont know where we need to nerf dungeon xp even came from. I have leveled over 10 chars to 60 since 2019 I dungeon grinded my way to 60 on exactly 0 of them. Its never been faster for a solo player to dungeon grind to 60. Only sweaty spell or melee cleave groups balancing the game around that is stupid.
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u/EnigmaticQuote 10h ago
Vote with your money if you want change!
It’s the only thing they listen to
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u/PluckyHippo 6h ago
Only if they nerf the dungeon quest xp to compensate. I don’t want to outlevel the zone if I do the dungeon one time with its quests.
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u/NTufnel11 5h ago
The main reason they nerfed the dungeon xp was because they overtuned quest xp, so this would be a natural consequence to revert that change. That also indicates that the goal is not just to level as fast as possible, but to maintain healthy incentives.
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u/munkin 11h ago
Nah instead its the cave cleave grind. Find isolated hyperspawns and farm with a 5man. Best xp per hour esp during launch when quest bottlenecks will be everywhere.
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u/Clean-Industry6256 11h ago
Yup.
Did they nerf XP from all elite mobs? Or can we still farm elite packs in the open world I wonder
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u/BearerseekseekIest 11h ago
Yup and then these same people will be rushing to Reddit to complain that they can't kill their quests mobs because people are farming them
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u/DirkaDurka 10h ago
They will likely be the ones doing it lol.
The people pro nerf are the biggest meta slave min maxers out there.
But they dont want to be “forced” to dungeon grind. Even though its never been faster outside of extreme examples.
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u/PresidenteMozzarella 8h ago
You get more exp from mobs outside of instances than inside. I know this for sure by DM.
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u/Feargasm 10h ago
Please let’s keep making noise around this, even after launch if necessary.
World of Warcraft offers the single best dungeon experience while leveling in any MMO on the market, ever.
The fact that they gutted the reward around this just doesn’t make sense to me. I’m a Tank player, the best way to practice not just tanking, but also leadership skills is THROUGH dungeons.
Of course I can just run them over and over regardless of the XP they offer, but these changes make forming groups a lot harder because it drastically reduces the amount of players willing to group up.
I will be able to see the world plenty, questing was already good and fun, now it’s even better. I don’t understand why choice is being taken away and being forced to play in a specific way
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u/browsk 11h ago
Blizzard are delusional to think that players will care enough about leveling gear to go waste 3 hours for 3 bars of xp
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u/Green-Broccoli277 9h ago
The dungeon quest XP is really good still, you want to do each dungeon once and you will get some decent gear from it. The issue is just rerunning the dungeons which feels very bad atm for those that want to level that way
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u/tumblew33d69 11h ago
The amount of people saying "just run them for fun" make no sense. It's an RPG, a game about character progression. The whole point of playing is progressing your character. But it needs to feel rewarding, or people aren't going to play. If blizz added a new raid tomorrow and it dropped no loot, would that be a good idea? Would you say "why aren't you just raiding for fun? Why do you need gear?" It's insane to me that people think people's time shouldn't be meaningfully rewarded because they want to run a dungeon a second or third time.
"Well there's gear and that's plenty reward", you may not need the gear, you may not win it, or it may not drop.
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u/TypicalOranges 10h ago
The amount of people saying "just run them for fun" make no sense.
The reward is part of the fun. And below 60 one of those rewards is xp. Very simple concept.
But, they're being intentionally dense because they worship the Forever Game Devs. One of the huge negatives of them having a podcast / becoming public figures is the parasocial behavior that comes along with it.
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u/eXVraW5ha2FtdXJh 11h ago
Felt like healing today so ran a couple of dungeons on the priest, not sure the xp bar moved much at all and got fk all drops. didn't do another one and just closed the game. these changes really got me hooked when I don't feel like doing quests over and over. so much so I just close the game
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u/6lackjamesfranco 10h ago
This has been my experience. Instead of being able to break up the questing (which i do enjoy) with a couple dungeon runs, I just log off and play a different game.
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u/S1cnus 11h ago
As someone that loved leveling through dungeons. I did one WC run in beta (lasted 2+ hours) we got maybe 1/4-1/2 a level.
Did another Dungeon (Gnomer) took maybe 45mins, got maybe 1/4 level.
Total waste of time. I even just went out and grinding mobs in the open world from 28 1/2 and it was WAAY more effective than actually grouping with other players. Makes no sense at all. Let's have people do solo content instead of grouping up to run dungeons.
Thanks OP! I agree.
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u/Elf_Fuck 10h ago edited 10h ago
The only time I speak with strangers is if I’m in a dungeon or raid with them.
If this is about curbing boosting/spellcleave, put in the Hardcore lockout.
If this is about forcing me to level in the open world, be it to make the world feel alive or push me through design into your new content, don’t worry. The legacy system and forever-journey language is going to spur me to level an army of alts in the open world while my friends are offline.
If I want to save my dungeons for when my friends are online so our one quest run is together, I will never group with a stranger for a dungeon. I won’t group with strangers with my alts either, I’ll just get one of my level 60 friends to run me through, since the quests and gear are the only value of doing the dungeon.
I do not recruit friends and guild mates doing open world quests. I will group with someone for an objective but I will not talk to them. I’ll reiterate: the only time I talk with a stranger is in a dungeon or raid.
I want to speculate on the negative consequences of doing this (moving boosters to the open world for hyper spawns, tank/healer shortages), but that would just be speculation so I’ll resist. Instead I’ll just say what I know to be true: the only time I engage with the social aspect of the game is in dungeons or raids. That’s where I make friends, meet groups, gain guild mates. You removed it, but I still like the game. So I’ll play and not engage with strangers socially until 60. Some journey.
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u/Due_Cartographer8664 10h ago
The world has at least 1 less tank in it because of this xp nerf. It was THE deciding factor when choosing between paladin or hunter. If I play a tank now I'm facing a choice between arriving to 60 late or arriving to 60 undergeared.
I've tanked for years and living in dungeons was the way to level a tank. During that time you not only gear up but your building tank skills, your rapport as a tank as well as building a strong network of people that you will be leading during raids. These are all fundamentally required to be a successful raid tank.
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u/No_Strawberry921 11h ago
There can’t be enough posts about this stupid change.
NOONE forces you to dungeon spam. But BLIZZARDS CHAGES forces EVERYONE to feel like wasting time running a dungeon even a second time.
I mean why would you put hours over hours into a new dungeon that will most Player will not run a 2. time?
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u/Give_Me_McKee 11h ago
Seriously. It's just taking away a leveling avenue for players. The players that liked that avenue are pissed and the people that didn't like it are happy because now they don't feel compelled to do something they already weren't doing??? Doesn't make sense.
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u/beardymanio 10h ago
As a healer main please listen to us blizzard. I play this game to run dungeons not solo quest for 80 hours.
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u/EscapeCharacter2658 9h ago
Just commenting to lend my support. Nobody should want less leveling options, if you do you're actively harming the game.
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u/S_Pbr__M 6h ago
CHANGE THE DUNGEON XP its currently so feels bad to play tank/healer or to even want to get a group together to go into the dungeon in the first place. This is one of the worst changes to forever along with the absolute gutting of mage
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u/Next-Bite-7950 9h ago
Nobody likes this change. And it’s even worse for new players, because you learn how to play your class in dungeons, not by killing 10 boars. Once again, just like with GDKP, legitimate players (who don't buy boost or gold) are being punished
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u/Brave-Cranberry3026 11h ago
They have simply dictated the meta. Every dungeon has now become a one and done. There's no reason to do more than that.
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u/Bdenergy1776 11h ago
Heard you like the HR/SR loot system for your leveling dungeons
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u/DirkaDurka 11h ago
100% If Im tanking on my Warr there will be no loot competition coming with me lol
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u/Heccer 11h ago
I am really trying to understand the guys who are saying that the dungeon XP nerf is a good thing. Most of it is just edgelord gloating, BUT there is one common opinion that comes up fairly often: they don't want to outlevel the zones they are doing just because they did a couple dungeons.
Maybe this come up in a Blizzard survey and this is why they are so hell-bent on this design change? If yes I think it's a solution for a thing that shouldn't be a problem. Leveling to 60 is not a completionist experience. You are not going to be able to complete every zone while staying in the green/yellow quest range... I don't get it honestly (the other reasons are obviously boosting and spell cleave grinding but those are already solved in theory)
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u/ASaGHost 11h ago
I mean, you'll still "outlevel" the zones because youll randomly get a full level for doing every dungeon quest on your first run. It will just mean subsequent runs are a legitimate waste of your time, and returning to where you are quest-wise will mean you are now an awkward level ahead which means some prerequisite quests you need to do are too low level, or then also feel like a waste of time.
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u/AsparagusDiligent615 8h ago
Hell, you outlevel the zones just doing the quests in them. With the addition of so many more quests, I was outleveling Westfall and Duskwood doing strictly quests in the zone.
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u/PresidenteMozzarella 8h ago
they don't want to outlevel the zones they are doing just because they did a couple dungeons.
I think this has to be like less than 1% of the wow population that have ever had that thought, it's so out there for me it feels fake.
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u/Heccer 8h ago
I've seen it quite often. They just don't understand that you are not supposed to complete everything until 60
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u/superninjaboss 10h ago
If they were to fully revert the mob XP nerfs they would have to revert the buff to quest XP too, that was the original trade off. That actually would be a decent nerf to most people, who just do a dungeon once or twice for quests and then go back to questing in the world.
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u/PolarVortices 10h ago
I know this is going to sound crazy but you don't actually have to min/max leveling for the most efficient exp per hour and you can just play the game the way you like to play it.
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u/OrganizationOk563 10h ago
i was one of the people saying quest give too much xp because 2 level from quest and dungeon xp seemed a lot , never imagined they would gut mob xp so bad.. it should be a choice to quest or level with friends but now we dont have the choice to spend a evening grinding with friends
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u/beatenmeat 9h ago
Mob XP was already gutted when those quests were live though. On top of that they were a one off and only scaled that well in the early game but later on the XP gains were going to be a drop in the bucket compared to what was needed to level. Then they nerfed the quest XP on top of that so you get even less noticeable gains with mob XP being so low you're not making any progress, let alone doing repeated runs.
Dungeons are honestly going to be a waste of time in the second half of the leveling journey given all the hoops you have to jump through. You'll get more experience questing in the same time it would take you to gather a group, let alone run the entire thing on top of that or the travel time involved for turning them all in.
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u/Flaydeng 9h ago
Dude why don’t you just enjoy wow? Enjoy the quest where you spend 35 mins running to westfall and flying back to stormwind to talk to some guy then go back to westfall for 280xp. I want people to enjoy the same quest over and over again all the way to 60
Collect 10 candles
Collect ten bony fingers
Collect 10 hides
Enjoy your 5 percent drop rate and enjoy fighting to tag the first respawn cause you have to fight 10 other people
Doing dungeons, meeting people, learning skills and talents, making friends is boring. I want you isolated!!
Enjoy wow brother
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u/grapefoundry 11h ago
Just lower the quest xp and raise mob xp a bit, seems such a simple fix. Does seem daft to put so much xp onto the quests and take it from the mobs. All the dungeons I've done has people trying to skip as many mobs as possible if it was raised then there'd probably be more full clears as well as more tanks and healers available for queuing.
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u/Vivid_Succotash_6298 11h ago
Technically they already did this, quest XP got a medium nerf, and from what i have read, and increased the amount of XP gain.
The issue is that while the XP nerf to quests was noticeable, the XP boost to mobs was negligeble.
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u/Wooden-Gur3537 11h ago
They nerfed mob XP by 80% and then buffed it by 20% of it's new value, not it's original value. So mob XP is still 76% worse than it was before.
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u/grapefoundry 11h ago
Yeah they did, just not enough of a change. Luckily they did say they'll keep looking at it and iterating.
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u/FixBlackLotusBlizz 3h ago
buff dungeon xp
why would you want to have a 1 and done dungeon quest run meta
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u/Discomidget911 11h ago
I do think the xp nerf was a bit too much. Having 0 inclination to run dungeons once I have done the quests is not where I'd like them to be. However, I do think blizzard is correct in that dungeons are too rewarding and leads people to simply spam them.
I don't know what the middle ground is but there is one.
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u/heywhodisis 11h ago
Could be something as simple as 5% less experience per clear per dungeon, stacking to 10x (50% reduced). All of SM would have to count as one though, since so many like parking there from like 28-43 lol
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u/derHuschke 8h ago
The change to me feels very much like the Blizzard that always thinks they know better. You know, the "you think you do" Blizzard.
And frankly that worries me.
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u/jonas_ost 8h ago
They 100% think the people that do dungeon leveling only do it because its fastest and they hence feel forced.
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u/Gassenger 7h ago
Its nutty because it isnt faster. Unless you have a cleave group of people that are organized (which maybe is 1% of players), open world was always quicker.
Now you can't even do that because of them gimping any aoe since it "wasn't classic" when people literally did it in classic
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u/Dry-Chain-4418 11h ago
I gave up on pushing for this.
We're all just going to speedrun solo questing content, which has always been the faster leveling method anyway. Now, even more people will be pushed toward the faster solo leveling route rather than the slower dungeon leveling route (unless they're running a premade cleave group).
I was worried I'd be all alone at 60 in a few weeks, but now more people will be hitting 60 alongside me. So it's not all downsides.
See you all at 60. Until then, have fun speedrunning mindless zombie solo questing!
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u/Nessarra 10h ago
I will also play no matter what. I'm going to try Forever. Most of it might be good. If the dungeon change sucks too much, we'll see. However, I still support the people who care about this. I want people to have the freedom to play how they want to. Some people much prefer dungeons to questing, so let them level in dungeons. I'll help them fight the good fight and see what can be accomplished.
People grinding dungeons don't hurt me or anyone. Having less competition for quest items sounds good to me.
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u/Cloudsbro 10h ago
They will respond to this feedback, conceding is just enabling them to make further boneheaded changes.
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u/Zinx23 11h ago
Preach! I’m posting on X daily for changes. This does more harm than good to the players. There’s a better way in what they’re doing but the current method is not it.
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u/SavingsRaspberry2694 11h ago
Blizzard wants people running rested XP guides to speed run quests in Forever, not teaming, grouping, socializing, or experiencing content together in any way.
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u/Curious_Human_hope 11h ago
You are so delusional living in self created bubble that you can't imagine people just normally questing and exploring without caring about XPM
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u/RepeatTheQestion 11h ago
Those people just can’t wait when the whole game becomes just raid logging 2 times a week and that’s it
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u/EnigmaticQuote 10h ago
They will be here complaining about nothing to do as it always is
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u/Arcael_Boros 11h ago
I would like to know how many dungeons they added pre lv50. Like if there are like 5-10 new dungeons? Sure, nerf the xp, buff the dungeon quest xp and players will try to do at least each dungeon once, thats better than just spam the same dungeon.
It would be nice if something like: you have to do some quest chain in the world to get the dungeon quest, them the dungeon quest give a lot of xp. Move to another dungeon zone and start again. Like an alternative leveling path to just doing world quest, it can be great if you have a group of 4-5 friends that want to do that.
But I dont like the perma spaming of the same dungeon just to gain xp, thats not about dungeons gameplay, thats just the path of least resistant to level up. Well, its no longer that path.
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u/GenericRacist 11h ago
I would like to know how many dungeons they added pre lv50.
There are 9 new dungeons with 7 of them being pre lv50 although one of them is cutting it close with recommended levels being 48-53
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u/Gold-Candle7148 8h ago
I just dont understand the thought process of making so many new dungeons and expecting us to run them once it makes me sad.
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u/Malohn 11h ago
People will say "You can still do dungeons for gear" is like saying you can still show up for work without pay.
People love their work. But people need to be paid.
I love dungeons, but I need the exp.
It is not deeper than that.
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u/Aphoris5 11h ago
So you would be fine with dungeons giving no loot at all if they revert exp changes?
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u/BigShortVox 11h ago
Both exp and gear are the pay from the work. What are you saying lol
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u/Chlearcus 11h ago
Pre-60 gear is like your manager ordering pizzas for the office. Yeah it's nice but it's not why you're there.
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u/BigShortVox 11h ago
Hahaha that made laugh, I like this comparison better. And fair point, tho you could argue that better gear allows you to level faster too.
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u/Plaidfu 10h ago
Except you would’ve leveled faster just staying questing than wasting 1/2 hours doing the dungeons, that’s like a full level at 30 vs 3 bars from the dungeon.
Does potentially getting a blue from a dungeon offset that time loss? Probably not.
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u/jcr4990 11h ago
This is the best way I've heard my exact feelings on this conveyed. This is really my only major issue with Forever and all the changes they're making. This one feels just... So bad. Also feels like it's for no good reason? You can't convince me there's a good reason why quest XP should be better than dungeon grind XP in a MMORPG where you're supposedly placing a high value on the social aspect. Does anyone genuinely think open world solo questing is somehow more social than 5 man dungeons cause they added a campfire system where people stop for 60s once an hour and say "sup" at best?
Mind boggling
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u/CognitiveDebt 11h ago
This is not a job, is literally a game. You do get a reward, besides quest exp, quest reward you also get gear. What are you even talking about lol
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u/GrumpyJabroni 11h ago
People acting like the loot people want are guaranteed drops.
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u/NillaT 11h ago edited 11h ago
They're comparing playing WoW to working a job. I wonder when these people will figure out they just don't enjoy playing the game, and that's okay... they need to find a different game or new hobby.
Gaming in general is a hobby you should be doing for fun, it's not a job. If they're best argument seems to be consistently calling it a job, I think I've identified the problem lol
Maybe they'll adjust the XP up a bit, but it's ultimately whatever. All these people will still be here at login on November 4.
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u/SnooChocolates1424 11h ago
There are some pros after all. Leave yourself in LFG as tank with note “Unwanted HR”. Got contacted each 30-40 min for a quick dungeon. You do it and leave with nice chunk of gold
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u/Anakee24 10h ago
It was enough of a change to completely dismantle any and all the hype I had for Forever. I have a solid group of friends I play with thesedays, 6 of which I met in classic 2019 and some old timers, and few since, we are all dungeon enjoyers. I break it up with the odd quest but I get bored out in the world it's way less social. Group for an elite, lucky to see "ty" in the chat. None of us want to quest all the way but dungeons will quickly become a zerg/jump skips/summons/weird wall climbing hacks to just kill bosses and get loot and get out. Slave Pens 2.0. We don't want to go to retail, or era, that comeback is fuckin lame. We should just get the regular exp you get for doing what we've always done. They fried it. Such a shame man. A huge shame. Discord dungeoning with the boys is dead in Forever until 60.
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u/Deliverme314 11h ago
Either revert, or make wayyyy more layers
Fighting with 100 people for kobold tags sucks so much
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u/Won_Too_Tree_For 9h ago
Just relish in the schadenfreude of dungeons becoming dead content outside of quest boosting runs 2 weeks into the launch. When there's already 500 reddit posts about "where are the tanks and healers ;(" and blizz has to bite their tongue and panic hotfix it.
There's gonna be potentially tens if not hundreds of thousands of new players that can barely play Kirby in Smash Bros let alone pilot an MMO (even if it's a relatively easy one) and they're gonna spend a full 3-4 hour night forming, prequesting, and wiping in a deadmines for 3 bars of xp and never go into a dungeon again. Dungeons are a sort of "if you don't like questing it's ok this content will come soon just hit 15 you're so close." When they finally hit it and they find it's an even worse slog and asks way more of them than open world they'll likely just drop the game.
Source: Half my normie friends failed Classic 2019 this way, and that's without the nerfs.
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u/Cidergregg 11h ago
For me the reward of Dungeons was always the Loot and the Fun. Some XP is nice, but I never just mashed dungeons for XP. Even with the nerfs, my approach to dungeons won't be changing at all. I will want to run many of them many times to get my sweet drops.
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u/Clean-Industry6256 11h ago
That was my approach as well, but in game I didn't expect to feel so shitty about the missing xp, but it's ahitty enough to force it's way into my attention, since we all do somewhat pay attention to our xp bar
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u/Wooden-Gur3537 11h ago
A sweet drop at anything below level 30 is replaced by quest gear almost immediately.
There's an argument of having fun, then there's the other one about respecting your time. If it takes you 4 runs (up to 4 hours) to get your drop, and you replace it within 2 hours of questing - Your time was completely wasted.
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u/Cidergregg 11h ago
I have time to waste. Group content is my favorite part of WoW and I love running dungeons in a group that doesn't try to just skip and speed through everything. Who cares if it may be rendered obsolete within a few levels? At least I had fun earning it and I can always disenchant it when I'm done.
I am a player who farmed ZF until I had earned Sul'Thraze the Lasher, knowing full well it could be almost immediately replaced by Ice Barbed Spear. I had fun earning it, and my time was not wasted.
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u/jiff1912 11h ago
So its fair to say the whole topic doesnt apply to you whatsoever. Stay out of it. Some of us very much want to be able to level in dungeons.
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u/ASaGHost 11h ago
It affects everyone actually. The dumbass changes will means less people run dungeons overall, so it will be harder and more time consuming to find groups, even if you are not the type of player that doesnt mind pushing boulders up hills.
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u/Professor_Cutie 4h ago
If Blizzard was truly listening to us, they would revert the dungeon EXP to normal 2019 Classic values.
If Blizzard doesn't revert EXP, they're just LARPers faking to gain the community's trust.
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u/S_Mescudi 11h ago
seems pretty clear they wont before launch at this point, guess we will have to see what it looks like and maybe they will address it after a couple weeks
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u/YellowYink 10h ago
I really enjoy running dungeons 2-3 times when leveling. Not going to if they give no xp, run it once for quests and move along. Really stupid change from Blizzard
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u/grafitisoc 10h ago
I just feel like the forever beta kept changing from "good/too loose" rule sets to "brutal/tight" and the real beta wasn't about the function of the game, but the community's tolerance of certain aspects. Then again, there is no way the tiddy milk company would be this smart.
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u/devkdup 10h ago
don't worry, once the game is actually out and the population surges with new players who weren't in beta, they will gather their friends to go run dungeons like they've done for 20 years and realize they are dogshit and start making noise or quitting. the freaks on this subreddit who've convinced themselves only gold buyers and boosters want good dungeon xp will quickly learn that actually an enormous percentage of 10 hours/wk casuals prefer leveling in dungeons.
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u/2d2O 9h ago
I'm glad this topic recently got a second wind.
Well, I'm not glad that it hasn't been fixed yet, but every post like this improves our chances of a positive outcome.
Full support!
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u/Mumbl3s 9h ago
Nope I like the way the Xp is now. I don’t want dungeon grinding to become the optimal way to level ever
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u/External-Presence204 11h ago
Yeah. At this point, I accept that it is what it is and my plan to learn to tank on a warrior and paladin will just be shelved.
My priest will run them once. I doubt either plate class steps into one.
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u/roundtwentythree 11h ago edited 10h ago
I think most people will want to run them once for the quests, even though open world questing will likely still be better.
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u/Silverbacks 10h ago
Why would you go in on your priest but not your plate classes? Warriors and paladins benefit more from gear than priests do.
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u/External-Presence204 10h ago
Because I am already competent to heal and don’t need the practice at a new role.
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u/Silverbacks 10h ago
Ah, well the early leveling dungeons are supposed to be your practice. If you run some combo of RFC/HoT/WC/DM/SFK/Stocks you’ll be pretty good at the role before you can even equip plate gear.
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u/ObiWanIsMyDog 11h ago
This is INSANE behavior. I have all those classes in my crew and no one is whining. And we’ll all hit 60 before you so I don’t know
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u/External-Presence204 11h ago
I’m sure you will hit 60 before I do. I’ll be leveling multiple toons and, even if I weren’t, I’m sure y’all are better players than I am, anyway.
That said, “accepting” the situation isn’t “whining,” so you probably want to think through your insults a little more carefully next time.
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u/tweedlerds 10h ago
Just nerf exp over time so it stops boosters like cut the exp every time you zone in by 10% if your so dead set on making it not spammable only and boosts killing the "social" game. Surely gutting it all the time for everyone is the worst possible solution.
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u/MrMimeWasAshsDad 9h ago
Dungeon XP and sharding are the two big bads they need to fix. Maybe in 2027 😴
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u/Cozz67 10h ago
The worse in this change is how we will play the end of the leveling journey, usually starting level 50-52, you could start running BRDs and get some really good items. While the leveling would get really slow, you'd access end game dungeons. I remember leveling a healer and starting level 50 all the way to 60, I just ran whatever was available in the LFG and got a well geared healer, while finishing the journey, felt really good