SMH Trump’s special envoy Steve Witkoff to Vladimir Putin today: “You talk so much about Trump being a humanitarian, you are a humanitarian also, sir. And I salute that. I commend you.”

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u/Leftunders 10h ago

Having lived with people like Trump all my life, it's not a lie. At least not in the common meaning of the word like you and I understand it.

A narcissist believes that their own belief makes a thing the truth. And no amount of proof or reasoning can make them deny "their" truth.

Trump himself is the perfect example. His recent statement about the supposed "deal" went something like "They've made a deal because I said they've made a deal." Questioning him goes nowhere because in his mind, it's not a lie- because HE said it, that makes it true.

This confuses people like you & me. We have normal reasoning ability and can see the objective truth before us. Trump and his followers can only work with what they consider the acceptable truth. I.e. the truth that they've been given and are incapable of doubting.

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u/SmartGirl62 9h ago

As George Costanza famously stated “ It’s not a lie if you believe it.”

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u/IndividualTension887 8h ago

You lived with a pedophile??? Me too... It really sucks seeing one of them in office, especially after what they did to children. There isn't justice for children...

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u/Leftunders 8h ago

Haha - it's scary how much ground "people like Trump" covers!

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u/bushsniffa 9h ago

Having been gaslit your whole life into somehow thinking lying isn't lying by liars is what you mean.

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u/nonuple_espresso 8h ago

But that wasn't trump or putin making the statement.

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u/Maximum-Formal-6672 9h ago

No, that is a lie. A vile lie, at that.

Just because an individual lives in a virtual world and believes it to be real, that doesn’t make it real.

By that logic, one could even justify a serial killer, simply because he believes he is doing good.

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u/keeper_of_the_donkey 9h ago

And that is exactly the point he is making. He even said this confuses people like us. He said what he said, and he was correct.

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u/bushsniffa 9h ago

No, they have agency and can tell the truth.

This is the ridiculous and enabling lie: "Trump and his followers can only work with what they consider the acceptable truth. I.e. the truth that they've been given and are incapable of doubting"

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u/keeper_of_the_donkey 8h ago

We're not speaking on terms of normal people here. We're talking on terms of narcissists like Trump. Trump believes in his head that what he is saying is true. That means that he is going to perform actions based on his truth. It has absolutely nothing to do with the actual truth. This is the part I think people are missing.

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u/bushsniffa 8h ago edited 8h ago

Whatever "normal" people are... What you are saying for trump, is literally true for everybody. It's not the responsibility of other people to coddle one towards reality. What a dogwater excuse for shit behavior.

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u/glassy_paddle 8h ago

Normal people == people without a significant personality disorder. Personality orders are identifiable and officially categorized: https://www.psychiatry.org/patients-families/personality-disorders/what-are-personality-disorders

OP here isn't saying we should allow it or excuse it, but it helps to understand where Trump's behavior starts. If you've never encountered a true narcissist in your life, you are lucky. They are genuinely terrible.

I'm not a psychologist/psychiatrist, so it's unclear if Trump is narcissist or sociopathic, or both. He seems to be both IMO.

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u/bushsniffa 8h ago

This has gotten a bit out of hand, and thank you for you comment. They are still lying. And no wishy-washy no it's a falsehood because they don't intend to deceive. Bullshit grand station.

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u/glassy_paddle 8h ago

Oh I agree 100%. It's truly terrible that we have a president with severe personality disorders. And we need to make sure they are all held to account.

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u/glassy_paddle 8h ago

Unfortunately, they don't have agency. This doesn't mean we should allow it, it's just the reality of the personality disorder.

Narcissists do not see or accept alternative worldviews. Because their internal psychology is fundamentally egocentric, they view their own perspective not as an opinion, but as the objective, absolute truth. Most of us have the ability to hold, validate, and share a reality with another person – narcissists do not.

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u/bushsniffa 8h ago

Actually hold someone to account and you'll see their agency magically reappear.

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u/glassy_paddle 8h ago

No, you won't. Narcissists and sociopaths genuinely never accept other world views. They will do anything and everything to pursue their world view with no contrition or an ethical framework the rest of us follow.

To be clear, no one here is saying we should not hold Trump and his administration to account. But it's worth understanding there is no "normal" world view secretly in there somewhere.

But 100% agree, we really need a sweeping change through midterms and in '28, and then we need to send a lot of people to prison or make sure they never hold any position worth anything ever again.

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u/bushsniffa 8h ago edited 7h ago

It's a lie and they fundamentally intend to deceive alls I'm sayin.

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u/glassy_paddle 8h ago

100% agree.

As an aside, I have dealt with a new narcissists and sociopaths in my life, and it's just wild how their brain works. Like, you can show them actual evidence of something they did, and they just won't accept it. Or, they will make you feel like they are amazing and warm people when they are just manipulating you. It's bonkers.

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u/bushsniffa 7h ago

Yes! People think evil must outwardly look and behave evil like a disfigured cartoon villian. They don't clock the charmer salesman.

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u/broguequery 8h ago

Well here in reality, we get to see the proof everyday in real time.

Trump constantly does shit like this, and his followers eat it up without question.

So I would agree with OP.

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u/lc4444 9h ago

He’s not justifying it, he’s explaining their mindset and why arguing them is pointless and frustrating. Doesn’t make it ok. Just get people like that out of positions of power. Don’t waste time trying to make them see why they’re wrong because you can’t.

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u/No-Builder-1038 9h ago

But this is all in his mind so good luck convincing him he’s wrong

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u/Beneficial-Sun-5863 8h ago

No need to convince him. Just lock him up. The fact that he’s been doing this all of his life and have gotten away with it time and time again just shows that people are too quick to brush narcissistic behavior off or even glorify it on TV. It should be met with the same caution as people diagnosed with Paranoid-Schizophrenia & untreated Bipolar disorder.

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u/Prajnamarga 8h ago

Technically it's not a lie. It's bullshit. A liar cares about the truth and tries to deceive you. A bullshitter tries to persuade you with no regard for the truth (they neither know nor care what the truth is).

These men don't give a crap about truth.

But look at the three guys watching him suck Putin's dick. They cannot believe it.

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u/broguequery 8h ago

It is literally lying.

But you are correct that they don't care about the truth.

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u/Leftunders 9h ago

You might be conflating the concept of a "falsehood," which is "a statement that contradicts a fact or facts" with a "lie" which is "a falsehood made with the intent to deceive."

You can make a falsehood without intent to deceive. I once told my mechanic that the oil in my car needed to be changed when I did not know that my wife had taken it to the same dealership for an oil change a couple of days before. I did not intend to deceive the service tech about the state of my vehicle's lubricants. That made my statement "it needs an oil change" a falsehood. But not a lie, even though I intended for him to believe me.

If I had returned the next day with the same car in the same general condition and made the same statement, it would have been a lie- assuming I wanted to convince the service tech that it was the truth.

Trump's belief that the deal had been stuck was the same as my belief that the car's oil needed changing. The difference is that his belief came from his narcissism causing him to equate "I said it" with "it's the truth," and my mistaken belief came from my inability to pay attention to anything my wife says.

Granted, there are situations where the person should have known that their statement was a falsehood, which would blur the line between "falsehood" and "lie," but those don't apply to narcissists because to them it doesn't matter whether what they say is true or false. Only that you believe and comply. To them, their statement is still true, for the same reason: they said so.

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u/broguequery 8h ago

This introduces needless complexity.

They simply live in a delusion of their own making.

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u/bushsniffa 8h ago edited 8h ago

Your tortured logic falls apart in the first sentence. They do it to deceive flat out.

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u/Maximum-Formal-6672 6h ago

A lot of words.

I am certain that they (Steve Witkoff) know perfectly well that they are lying.

And they are lying for their own purposes.

THAT’S IT.

As for Trump, I don’t know—perhaps he is simply old and not fully in touch with reality.

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u/Twat_Features 5h ago

This man is obsessed with “cock warming” and semen and posts stories about it, lol.

Take nothing seriously. A lot of words for no point.

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u/laughing_at_napkins 9h ago

I don't know. I feel like Dexter was a good person. But he's the exception that proves the rule.

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u/Acrobatic-Roof-8116 9h ago

That vile murderer who killed that innocent person in that public restroom?

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u/laughing_at_napkins 9h ago

The serial killer of serial killers from the show Dexter

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u/Smboto 7h ago

“It’s not a lie, if you believe it.”

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u/deaglebingo 6h ago

yep. if listen at all they may listen to others' pleasantries, mostly they listen for their turn to speak because they have to.

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u/grodudulle77 2h ago

On dirait bien qu’il sortent tous de l’hôpital psychiatrique !!😁🤪

SMH Trump’s special envoy Steve Witkoff to Vladimir Putin today: “You talk so much about Trump being a humanitarian, you are a humanitarian also, sir. And I salute that. I commend you.”

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