Trump’s special envoy Steve Witkoff to Vladimir Putin today: “You talk so much about Trump being a humanitarian, you are a humanitarian also, sir. And I salute that. I commend you.”

[u/ExactlySorta]

[u/Leftunders]

Having lived with people like Trump all my life, it's not a lie. At least not in the common meaning of the word like you and I understand it.

A narcissist believes that their own belief makes a thing the truth. And no amount of proof or reasoning can make them deny "their" truth.

Trump himself is the perfect example. His recent statement about the supposed "deal" went something like "They've made a deal because I said they've made a deal." Questioning him goes nowhere because in his mind, it's not a lie- because HE said it, that makes it true.

This confuses people like you & me. We have normal reasoning ability and can see the objective truth before us. Trump and his followers can only work with what they consider the acceptable truth. I.e. the truth that they've been given and are incapable of doubting.

[u/Maximum-Formal-6672 → u/Leftunders]

No, that is a lie. A vile lie, at that.

Just because an individual lives in a virtual world and believes it to be real, that doesn’t make it real.

By that logic, one could even justify a serial killer, simply because he believes he is doing good.

[u/keeper_of_the_donkey → u/Maximum-Formal-6672]

And that is exactly the point he is making. He even said this confuses people like us. He said what he said, and he was correct.

[u/bushsniffa → u/keeper_of_the_donkey]

No, they have agency and can tell the truth.

This is the ridiculous and enabling lie: "Trump and his followers can only work with what they consider the acceptable truth. I.e. the truth that they've been given and are incapable of doubting" 

[u/keeper_of_the_donkey → u/bushsniffa]

We're not speaking on terms of normal people here. We're talking on terms of narcissists like Trump. Trump believes in his head that what he is saying is true. That means that he is going to perform actions based on his truth. It has absolutely nothing to do with the actual truth. This is the part I think people are missing.

[u/bushsniffa → u/keeper_of_the_donkey]

Whatever "normal" people are... What you are saying for trump, is literally true for everybody. It's not the responsibility of other people to coddle one towards reality. What a dogwater excuse for shit behavior. 

[u/glassy_paddle → u/bushsniffa]

Normal people == people without a significant personality disorder. Personality orders are identifiable and officially categorized: https://www.psychiatry.org/patients-families/personality-disorders/what-are-personality-disorders

OP here isn't saying we should allow it or excuse it, but it helps to understand where Trump's behavior starts. If you've never encountered a true narcissist in your life, you are lucky. They are genuinely terrible.

I'm not a psychologist/psychiatrist, so it's unclear if Trump is narcissist or sociopathic, or both. He seems to be both IMO.

[u/bushsniffa → u/glassy_paddle]

This has gotten a bit out of hand, and thank you for you comment. They are still lying. And no wishy-washy no it's a falsehood because they don't intend to deceive. Bullshit grand station. 

[u/glassy_paddle → u/bushsniffa]

Oh I agree 100%. It's truly terrible that we have a president with severe personality disorders. And we need to make sure they are all held to account.

[u/glassy_paddle → u/bushsniffa]

Unfortunately, they don't have agency. This doesn't mean we should allow it, it's just the reality of the personality disorder.

Narcissists do not see or accept alternative worldviews. Because their internal psychology is fundamentally egocentric, they view their own perspective not as an opinion, but as the objective, absolute truth. Most of us have the ability to hold, validate, and share a reality with another person – narcissists do not.

[u/bushsniffa → u/glassy_paddle]

Actually hold someone to account and you'll see their agency magically reappear. 

[u/glassy_paddle → u/bushsniffa]

No, you won't. Narcissists and sociopaths genuinely never accept other world views. They will do anything and everything to pursue their world view with no contrition or an ethical framework the rest of us follow.

To be clear, no one here is saying we should not hold Trump and his administration to account. But it's worth understanding there is no "normal" world view secretly in there somewhere.

But 100% agree, we really need a sweeping change through midterms and in '28, and then we need to send a lot of people to prison or make sure they never hold any position worth anything ever again.

[u/bushsniffa → u/glassy_paddle]

It's a lie and they fundamentally intend to deceive alls I'm sayin.

[u/glassy_paddle → u/bushsniffa]

100% agree.

As an aside, I have dealt with a new narcissists and sociopaths in my life, and it's just wild how their brain works. Like, you can show them actual evidence of something they did, and they just won't accept it. Or, they will make you feel like they are amazing and warm people when they are just manipulating you. It's bonkers.

[u/bushsniffa → u/glassy_paddle]

Yes! People think evil must outwardly look and behave evil like a disfigured cartoon villian. They don't clock the charmer salesman.

[u/glassy_paddle → u/bushsniffa]

Yep!

[u/broguequery → u/bushsniffa]

Well here in reality, we get to see the proof everyday in real time.

Trump constantly does shit like this, and his followers eat it up without question.

So I would agree with OP.