With every iteration of Classic so far, Dungeon Spamming in 'Cleave' groups has always been at it's height of popularity in the first few weeks after launch.

6-12 months after launch however, it is nigh on impossible to find such a dungeon group due to the popularity of this levelling method dropping off a cliff. Don't believe me? Pick any version of classic and try to find a Dungeon Spamming group to level in right now.

If one were determined to level in a dungeon spamming group after the first year of the game being out, they would very likely kill any xp/h benefits due to the amount of time trying to assemble the group.

To put it quite simply - the dungeon xp nerfs solve a problem that won't even exist after a year. Very shortsighted thinking for a game mode with 'forever' in the title.

Massive Alliance raid happening in the Orc starting zone. I'd love to join the fight, but /1 General Chat is restricted to your current layer, and there's no way to switch to the PvP layer. What's the point of an open-world PvP event if the layering system prevents players from participating?

Give it a watch: https://youtu.be/C23CqsLiUNs?si=NwhQZ1uCvsxiRVB7

TLDR of some of the claims include:
- Crusader Strike is not representative of past RP-PvP servers
- RP-PvPs historical popularity over RP-PvE in Classic environments
- Why exclude a playstyle that has been supported by Blizzard for over two decades, particularly in a game that’s supposed to be “Forever”?

If you agree with what’s being said, don’t forget to like, subscribe, and share the video. Those of us (still!) pushing for RP-PvP need to boost messages like these.

Why do you think they decided to keep Seal Twisting despite what seems like 80% of the playerbase being against it?

From what I've seen, barely anyone is happy with the mechanic, whether it's the old version or the new capstone talent.

With all the negative feedback, why do you think they're so reluctant to change it? Do you think we're just too close to launch for them to make such a big change to a capstone talent, or is there another reason?

This phrase gets constantly repeated: "We want you out in the world". It's what Blizzard said was, in addition to defeat boosting, the reason why dungeon XP was so heavily nerfed. This will make it so that dungeon runs will be hard to come by as there's less reason to run them after you complete your dungeon quests.

The problem I have with the phrase is that dungeon grinding is a fun cooperative experience while questing in the overworld incentivizes being an solo player. Sometimes the game actively encourages sntisociality like tag stealing.

The only problem is that questing is really antisocial and the game mechanics don't encourage grouping beyond killing a named mob. It's more efficient from xp/hr POV to be a solo mob tagger rather than a social group guy.

On the topic of kill quests, it will be very terrible in the overworld during launch. Having participated in a few launches, competition for mobs can get really heated, and some people do rage at you.

Then there's the terrible collection quests in the overworld where grouping is even more disincentivized beyond xp loss, and in my personal experience many people ditch groups the moment when their personal collection is done.

I don't do WPvP personally, but I can imagine how WPvP increase these problems tenfold as a certain subsection of WPvP players do it simply to grief others.

So what's the point of the phrase "we want you in the world" if the world tries to make you and others play a solo game? What am I getting out of the experience that's more social and better than playing dungeons?

Just fighting the good fight again. Punishing players who want to group up and play with friends is wrong and feels bad.

Not to mention issues like potentially lowering the amount of tanks and healers who want to get into dungeon and group content because they can no longer level via dungeons effectively.

You think you are stopping the boosters and super sweats in their tracks, but you are mistaken. The sweats will just sweat to 60 anyway they can.

You are hurting the average gamer who just likes running dungeons for a few hours here and there with friends when they want a break from solo questing. Actual social gameplay is being punished here and it’s sad.

Please I need some kind of update. I’m going crazy over here bro idgaf about forever. I just want my sweet beautiful northrend back

Remember when we used to complain that flying mounts had a negative impact on the game? We were told:

"Just don't use them if you don't like them"

"It doesn't affect you how I chose to play"

"You play your way, I'll play mine"

"Stop trying to tell me how to play the game"

But flying did have an effect on the game. Telling people to just ignore the efficient way to level when we are hard wired into finding efficiency is asinine.

Sound familiar? We have the same situation now with the dungeon spammers - except this time, Blizzard have addressed the problem early.

TLDR:

Dungeon spamming being efficient is bad in much the same manner as flying mounts were detrimental to the game.

I think overall I'm impressed by how close the racials feel, but the alliance leyline racial mana regen one feels a bit too strong, especially for mages.

I know nobody forces you to play a certain race, but if we can look at true player behavior historically we know that playing the non-optimal race will be looked down upon.

Mages with leyline will generate SIGNIFICANTLY more mana than other mages throughout a raid, when combined with mage armor the racial allows for crazy amounts of mana regen.

On top of that, a meta will likely exist where minmax players go get the 15 minute version of the leyline buff out in the world then raid log until pull so they can have tons of mana for the first 15 minutes of raid. I know this is cringe, and nobody should do it, but lets just be honest about how players play - they will.

1. DPS only opens their mouth to say “Thank you, precious healer” or “Sorry, precious healer.”

2. “Healer, where are you?”, “Why aren’t you healing?”, or “Is the healer asleep?” means an instant kick. The DPS gets sent back to the group finder and sits there for 40 minutes, reflecting on their behavior.

3. If you stand in a puddle, it means the precious healer can’t see you. You don’t exist.

4. If you die in a puddle, back to the group finder. If the precious healer is in a good mood, you might be allowed to stay in the group, but you can forget about getting any loot, including quest items. Pick up a quest item? Back to the group finder.

5. Pull a mob instead of letting the tank do it? Straight to the group finder.

6. If a mob is casting, you interrupt it. Didn’t interrupt? That’s a warning. Two warnings and you’re back in the group finder.

7. Any piece of gear the precious healer wants belongs to the precious healer. If the precious healer wants every single piece, you suck it up. “I wouldn’t mind having it” = warning. “Need” = back to the group finder.

8. The precious healer is always right. If the precious healer is wrong, read rule 8 again. The only person allowed to challenge this rule is Daddy Tank. DPS scum are always wrong.

Currently, as far as I’m aware, the 2% crit damage racial is additive, making it pretty underwhelming compared to 2% crit chance.

However, if they changed it to be multiplicative, applying to your existing crit damage multiplier, it would become much more interesting and bridge the gap between the two racials.

I’m not sure what the baseline crit chance will be for most players, but I doubt many classes will reach the point where the crit damage racial equals the crit chance racial. However, making it multiplicative would bring them much closer together.

This would help balance the racials while preventing them from becoming too homogenized. You’d still have trade-offs and thresholds where one racial becomes more beneficial than the other. Some classes, particularly Rogues, could benefit more from the higher multiplier, assuming they can reach the required crit chance.

For reference, here are the break-even points where the crit damage racial provides the same expected damage as +2% crit chance:

200% base crit damage

150% base crit damage

~ROL:~

• Remember that I love you: (22) 6,200
• Bloodied Insignia: (22) 6,200
• Crest of Loraeron: (22) 6,200
• Abominable Creatures: (21) 3,900

Total for Ally: 22,500

~DM:~

• Red Silk Bandanas: (17) 2,950
• Defias Brotherhood: (22) 6,200
• Unsent Letter: (22) 2,050
• Underground Assault: (20) 3,700
• Destruction in Deadmines (18) 2,700

Total: 17,600

DM is a higher level dungeon and yet the quests for ROL are higher level, do not require long chains, and give more XP on average and in total. They also give ring and neck slots, rare at low levels.

Further, the mob XP in ROL appeared to be wildly inconsistent from 26 for lvl 15 elite spider, 76 for Skeletal Soldier, and 89 for Plague Ghouls. This is way more than elite mobs in DM give (From what I remember, could be wrong but recall DM giving terrible XP from mobs ~20ish).

I'm not saying that things need to be equivalent, just that something seems off with the balancing for ROL specifically considering it is lower level than DM and easier in terms of difficulty and no long quest chains and annoying escort quests prerequisites.

Just adding my feedback in here if we're trying to use this subreddit as a place to lobby for changes.

I think it's fine. Maybe some more mob XP if they're feeling spicy but I think this will work exactly how they picture it.

Blizzard invested way too much into this technology to not use it. The “realmless” feature had one of the longest segments at Blizzcon. It’s clear they are all in.

Whoever is making the decisions cares more about saving on server costs than creating a living breathing world experience for the players.

Im holding out hope that it gets better 6 months from now when the playerbase has evened out.

I think we all know deep down that the system is here to stay.

This time I have bought 6350x Linen cloth. I now own over 60% of all Rough Stone and Linen cloth on the PvP server! I think I have a spending problem.

The 30g was from a guy quitting and doing a riddle to whoever could find him, i managed to get to him and solve it.

With some of the QOL updates they made to Forever, I'm a little surprised they're still holding firm on this because I think some of those changes are more controversial than queueing for BGs anywhere.

I don't really see what pillar this would violate by allowing it. We're already teleported to the BG, so it isn't like we run to it like we do a dungeon.

They allow us to form dungeons groups out in the world and not sitting outside a specific NPC to queue for a specific dungeon. Hell, we don't even need to be in the same zone as the dungeon to queue up in group finder for it.

What ends up happening is people just afk in major cities waiting for a queue to pop, isn't that far more retail than people out in the world while waiting for BGs to pop?