EU has created a system that bypasses payment processing services like visa or mastercard

[u/Getatbay]

[u/lynivvinyl]

I stupidly assumed that every country had their own way to pay for things electronically in addition to visa and MasterCard and American Express. I think relying on a foreign country to have control of your money doesn't sound very safe.

[u/rampant-ninja → u/lynivvinyl]

This is how it used to be to be fair, Visa and Mastercard bought up local solutions and muscled their way into local markets.

Thank you stranger for the award.

[u/cam-san → u/rampant-ninja]

But it's not a monopoly!!! There are TWO whole companies!!!

[u/turtleship_2006 → u/cam-san]

If only there were terms to describe a few companies having almost total control of a market that was different to "monopoly"

[u/-_one_-1 → u/turtleship_2006]

FWIW, I usually call it a “shared monopoly.”

[u/monirom → u/-_one_-1]

Also known as a duopoly.

[u/Thick-Flounder-8663 → u/-_one_-1]

I call them Swingers

[u/Aethrin1 → u/Thick-Flounder-8663]

Swingers imply more than two. That's just a couple.

A wierd, narcissistic, ugly couple that everyone else hates, no less.

[u/SenanDK → u/turtleship_2006]

There is, and it's called duopoly. The classic example is Pepsi & Coke companies.

[u/turtleship_2006 → u/SenanDK]

I know, I was being sarcastic lol

[u/Ahri → u/turtleship_2006]

Ahh the Internet 🙄

[u/sir_ale → u/turtleship_2006]

Oligopoly

[u/HualtaHuyte → u/turtleship_2006]

Oligopoly has a nice ring to it. I wonder if they're using it for anything else.

[u/DarkwingDuckHunt → u/turtleship_2006]

Cartel sounds to druggy

[u/WillOrph → u/cam-san]

We should come up with a term for this. Something to define this duo by 🤔

[u/abitlazy → u/WillOrph]

You're right! I declare this Two-opoly!

[u/CroScorpiuS → u/abitlazy]

Sounds good, and when there are more than 2 then we can call it a "polypoly"

[u/Deadlynitro → u/abitlazy]

Duopoly

[u/StockMarketCasino → u/Deadlynitro]

Biopoly

[u/totallyhumanhonest → u/StockMarketCasino]

Edna Krabappoly.

[u/VTOLfreak → u/rampant-ninja]

Correct, just a few years back a lot of European countries had their own debit card systems. All of those got replaced by VISA and Mastercard. It does have some advantages because they are also recognized as credit cards and not just debit cards, making online payments easier. It also works better when travelling outside the EU as more ATMs will recognize the cards. But in the process, they made themself dependent on payment providers outside the EU.

Good thing they finally woke up and are coming up with an alternative. I'm still keeping my credit card in addition to my debit card. It will be a while before any new system is widely accepted, especially outside the EU.

[u/Ylja83 → u/VTOLfreak]

I don't think "all". Denmark still has Dankort, first launched in early 80ies. Not sure if others survived..

[u/Icy_Object_5844 → u/Ylja83]

Germany still has Girocard

[u/AidenTai → u/Icy_Object_5844]

Shame they're exceptions. Would be nice if some of the other regional networks had stuck around.

[u/CKRatKing → u/AidenTai]

They are responding to a comment that said they all got replaced by pointing out that they did not in fact all get replaced. It's very obvious they are pointing out exceptions that are still around.

[u/JMJimmy → u/VTOLfreak]

Nice thing is the new system will work in Canada and vice versa

[u/grecy → u/lynivvinyl]

Not only that, it's wild to pay ~3% of every transaction to a foreign country!

[u/MiikaH → u/grecy]

I think credit card fees are capped to 0.3% in EU. So not quite 3% but the point still stands.

[u/Garbage-Disposal-938 → u/grecy]

the real point of strong-arming them to use Visa/Mastercard is US control over and surveillance of European transactions. same sort of motive is behind the giant US software and internet companies doing business in EU.

back in the early 2000's it seemed likely that some EU entrepreuners would try and build Eurocentric search engines and social networks so they could compete effectively and offer better services. (China and Russia have their own big search engines.) but people say it never happened because of network effects. but I don't know if that's really a good explanation. I have to wonder if the US deep state somehow forced these companies onto those populations.

[u/gmc98765 → u/grecy]

Debit card fees are typically 1.5%-2% for small businesses, and get lower as turnover increases.

[u/zeno → u/grecy]

The EU caps those fees by law. For Americans whose lawmakers are held captive by lobbying and money interests there’s no voice but for small businesses to hand over 3%+ of their money to a duopoly

[u/ghostofyoreel → u/lynivvinyl]

This just shows how much of an ally, and trust, countries had with the US. This trust, made over the short lifespan of the US, has totally been obliterated by a single person… it’s pretty crazy how things have gone from 0-100.

[u/lambentLadybird → u/ghostofyoreel]

Well not exactly by a single person...there are some voters included. Crazy. History is repeating.

[u/lynivvinyl → u/ghostofyoreel]

HAD. I completely agree. There are some good ones left here though.

[u/TheIrishBread → u/lynivvinyl]

US ones bought it out. It wasn't an issue till recently between the US going rogue and the payment processors themselves beginning to act as a censorship bureau.

[u/Crusoe69 → u/lynivvinyl]

In France we already had CB (Aka Carte Bleue) since the 70.

[u/feldim2425 → u/Crusoe69]

According to Wikipedia (and the linked source) this was the case but since 2010 it's just a term for Visa. (Note I'm not French and have to use translators for this).

Germany has Girocard but due to the inherent limitation of being german only it's often paired with Visa or Mastercard.

Here in Austria we tried using Bluecode from a Swiss company (but it never took off), so everything is Visa or Mastercard.

[u/ipdar → u/feldim2425]

If only there were some kind of European standard digital currency transaction.

[u/HobbitSami → u/lynivvinyl]

Specially when that foreign country has shown to be crazy

[u/ProfessionalPiece403 → u/lynivvinyl]

Foreign or not, the biggest problem is that companies are in private hands. In top of that this just creates another layer increasing cost.

[u/Careful-Republic-332 → u/lynivvinyl]

As an EU citizen I don't consider things in other EU countries to be foreign.

[u/Dookwithanegg → u/Careful-Republic-332]

I think they mean we in the EU should not trust the foreigners in USA with our money

[u/Careful-Republic-332 → u/Dookwithanegg]

Oooh right, now that you mentioned it, it definately seems like that is what they meant. My bad 😅

[u/Internet-Culture]

The accomplishment of WERO is not that it's digital but that it works across multiple countries, as it progressively rolls out across the whole EU instead of preexisting exclusive national systems.

But on a bigger picture, the same issue still remains. Sure, many countries like India or Brazil have well-working digital systems for a long time. But if people from Brazil want to pay in India or Germans want to pay in Japan, you are still reliant on very few American companies who have built a world wide system but actively abuse their market power for evil.

[u/villasv → u/Internet-Culture]

Surely once European systems are widespread enough it will be worth pursuing a bridge with PIX. PIX is already being accepted in Argentina.

[u/icebraining → u/villasv]

Indeed, PIX and Wero integration is already being studied.

[u/Rafa_50 → u/icebraining]

That would be amazing

[u/eggyrulz → u/villasv]

God i hope so, im sick and tired of visa/Mastercard monopoly (signed an american who thinks they can fuck right off)

[u/Novo_Testamemto → u/villasv]

Pix is also accepted in Portugal, France, even in the USA.

[u/Leamir → u/villasv]

According to a friend, pix is also used in Portugal a little bit

[u/west-vannian → u/Leamir]

Afaik MB WAY belongs to the ENP, so it's already linked to Wero

[u/ScreamSmart → u/villasv]

There's also UPI in India that's been working over the past decade.

[u/MAPRage → u/villasv]

big papa america would never allow this, they know that a decent chunk of their power stems from on having a monopoly on moneyflow.

[u/villasv → u/MAPRage]

You overestimate how much control this failing power still has. PIX already came to existence against the USA’s interest, and it continues to expand

[u/die_andere → u/Internet-Culture]

WERO is actually based on the dutch Ideal. We have had it for years now.

[u/HakimeHomewreckru → u/die_andere]

ACKSHUALLY Wero is based on Payconiq, with iDEAL providing the online e-commerce framework.

Wero wouldn't be what it was today without the other.

[u/mariegriffiths → u/die_andere]

I used to be an ING customer. It was a pity you left the UK.

[u/slasher-fun → u/Internet-Culture]

as it progressively rolls out across the whole EU

It does not unfortunately, instead it will become interoperable with other national systems through the EuroPA alliance. https://epicompany.eu/media-insights/european-network-for-payments

[u/d00m_bot → u/Internet-Culture]

Well, we have some integration woth pix in Latin America (or at least in Argentina where I used it). If that was broader would be amazing

[u/Active-Sweet3652 → u/[deleted]]

I dont think its about forcing someting. in Brazil, Pix is so good that It doesnt really makes sanse to use anything elss

[u/Rukitokilu → u/Active-Sweet3652]

It does, sometimes.

Unfortunately my credit card gives me 2 benefits that make it make sense to still keep using it:

• If I make a purchase in installments and anticipate their payments I get a 5,5% discount per year. If a place offers installments without a fee and interest (or they are lower than 5,5% per year) and there's no discount to pay through pix or other methods the best option is to use the credit card and anticipate all installments for the first month getting a 5,5% "cashback".

• I get LatamPass points through normal usage, and can exchange them for airline tickets, hotels or car rentals.

[u/siralim → u/Rukitokilu]

Those benefits are a result of the excessive fees charged to businesses and rewards encourage you to use the card so they can keep the fees coming in. Businesses close due to excessive processing fees or raise prices when fees increase. The rewards cards charge more fees, that’s how they give you rewards.

By all means keep using it and getting those rewards but also acknowledge that businesses switch to other services for these same reasons and the insistence on using a card with high fees may prevent you from accessing lower costs on items.

A large chain grocery store in my area consistently has lower prices on the majority of their items. They don’t accept credit cards because of the excessive fees and the savings is more than any credit card rewards. People who use and want those rewards typically don’t shop there and always use the inability to receive cash back as the reason. Good for them, the benefit is worth the additional cost to them, but it isn’t to me and many others.

[u/MestreToto → u/Rukitokilu]

In Brazil, usually, if you pay using Pix, it's 10-15% cheaper than using a credit card. So this is better to the consumer in general.

That's what needs to happen in EU

[u/HuggyMonster69 → u/[deleted]]

Yeah they have this in Thailand too.

It was very useful

[u/davisao11 → u/[deleted]]

Brazil didn't force pix though, it's just simply better

[u/Killah57 → u/davisao11]

Kinda, it was somewhat forced.

In this case it was that every financial institution would have to offer PIX, without directly replacing anything or with any extra charges for each operation. But since it was cheaper for the consumer and extremely easy to use, it caught on fast.

[u/iamthe0ther0ne → u/[deleted]]

Yup. In Sweden almost everything is done with Swish. It's so ubiquitous people have no reason to switch off that.

[u/Kili2D → u/iamthe0ther0ne]

In switzerland its the same with Twint. In day to day life nearly all transactions of ( mostly younger people) are on twint. You can split bills, ask for money, send money to anyone with a swiss phone njmber and a connectet twint app

[u/slappadik → u/[deleted]]

Europes is a conglomerate of countries with different regulations and laws. no wonder it would be a challenge

[u/DiegoLimaMelo → u/[deleted]]

It is not really forced in Brazil, however it does have basically no tax on small transfars, and it's quicker than credit/debt card, so it makes sense why most people adopted it.

[u/JustHanginInThere → u/[deleted]]

Well Europe is a continent of many different nations/countries, whereas Brazil or India are individual nations/countries.

[u/Think_Fuel1505]

Hell I hope something like this can be brought to the states. These companies are getting to powerful 

[u/tomoldbury → u/[deleted]]

The American cards offer some large benefits like rental car insurance which we don’t get in the UK, but when you see how large those fees are it’s not surprising that they can afford to give away things like that.

[u/RadVarken → u/tomoldbury]

And there's absolutely no reason the card I use to pay for groceries should also provide insurance so I don't have to pay for the rental car company's scam.

[u/Getatbay → u/Think_Fuel1505]

That’s exactly why we will never get it here

[u/BitterStop3242 → u/Getatbay]

Look up the The bipartisan Credit Card Competition Act

[u/Moral-Relativity → u/Think_Fuel1505]

US has too many competing systems. Venmo, Zelle, PayPal, Cash App, etc. can all work without going through credit card network. However this competition also means there’s no single payment system everyone supports, except for the long time incumbents, the credit card companies.

[u/villasv → u/Moral-Relativity]

None of these systems are equivalent to what the other countries have. Brazil also had more than a dozen competing digital wallets that supported payments and transfers before PIX came along. It’s a whole separate thing 

[u/MetalBawx → u/Think_Fuel1505]

Plenty of cases of both blocking online stores in extra legal attacks. Hell Japanese authorities raided VISA's local HQ after accusations of free trade violations.

[u/GrokLobster → u/Think_Fuel1505]

There was one under development and set to start trials but it was killed by doge

[u/jabberwockxeno → u/Think_Fuel1505]

Or we should just pass laws regulating payment processors as common carriers that aren't allowed to refuse service for anything that's not illegal, the same way your telephone, water, or electrical company aren't allowed to turn your service off based on if they agree with what you're using your phone calls or electricity for.

[u/catcherfox7]

Usa losing all its soft power in one single administration is kind of wild

[u/areyoualocal → u/catcherfox7]

You could argue that the power had been slowly waning, it just needed one megalomanic to abuse everything to push it over the edge.

[u/3shotsdown → u/areyoualocal]

Lmao dude. This administration openly claimed soft power was not actual power and went about dismantling all your soft power institutions using DOGE.

The level of copium consumption with you people is wild.

[u/hackingdreams]

I can't wait until the US lawmakers make it illegal to use that system here in America because it threatens the Visa/Mastercard hegemons.

[u/Ruibarb0 → u/hackingdreams]

They are putting tarifs on Brazil for using a "free" government system that became so popular locally that visa and mastercard reported significant market share loss over there.

[u/Winter-Working8658 → u/Ruibarb0]

keep in mind it was just market share loss, their net revene actually increased. The app was so popular that it made the brazillian people more willing to use digial payment method, which benefited everyone. Its literally making the pie bigger but the monopoly giants cant stand it, so they'd rather kill it then let everyone benefit from it.

[u/ApprehensiveFan1516 → u/Winter-Working8658]

I don't know about you people, but I don't want to live in a world where someone else makes the world a better place better than we do.

- Gavin Belson

[u/Mstr_Robi]

We have Interac in Canada you don’t have thing like this?

[u/go_go_tindero → u/Mstr_Robi]

Some countries have their own solutions but they don't work between countries. France, Belgium and Germany are the only countries that handle 80% of payments domestically. Spain, Sweden, Finland, Poland and Ireland are 100% MasterCard/visa.

[u/ISketchDinosaurs → u/go_go_tindero]

Even some of those countries have their own payment solutions, just not credit cards. Phone app payments are relatively common where I am. It's up to each and every store to decide if they want to connect to it, but it's common enough that they do that you can get by.

[u/persin123]

The faster the world disconnects from american monopoly the better

[u/SAM-in-the-DARK]

So tariffs and sanctions on other countries/citizens can have a negative effect on American companies. Curious how the next round of lobbying is going to be steered

[u/Expert_Actuator420 → u/SAM-in-the-DARK]

Its true. Canada is joining this credit system too. 30 percent of transactions in Canada are via credit cards. That's a lot of revenue for visa and MC that will be diverted.

[u/perenniallandscapist]

Wow just another nail in America's soft influence and international business prowess. So much squandered in so few years its mind blowing.

[u/TatonkaJack → u/perenniallandscapist]

Yeah this is a great video to explain why actively eroding your international reputation and bullying your allies is stupid

[u/sgst → u/TatonkaJack]

Yep, it hasn't fully taken effect yet because these things simply take time, but a lot of the world is slowly decoupling themselves from the US in terms of finance, software/tech, defense, travel, towing the line on foreign policy.

The US is going to find its international importance and influence greatly diminished before too long.

Maybe the orange clown did the world a favour by reminding everyone not to put too much trust in a supposed ally.

[u/outlawsmokeyscottish]

Thank fuck. It's been a long time coming.

[u/pikap83]

Brazil is waaaay ahead on this. The fact that they do not have transaction fees now allowed for many companies to accept other than cash and it has increased tax collection and brought millions to the formal economy.

[u/LiaraTsoni1 → u/pikap83]

It already exists for decades in the form of iDeal. iDeal is now going international and changed their name to Wero. 

[u/GenazaNL]

A lot of countries have a payment alternative locally, the issue lays on using it internationally in other countries within the EU and outside

[u/Jolly-Bag7024]

Various EU countries have had payment processors competing with Visa and Mastercard for decades (CB, Girocard, iDeal, etc.). The difference here is the international ambition of the consortium.

[u/Own-Interaction-6970 → u/Jolly-Bag7024]

CB and Giro card are still network based. iDeal is A2A via SEPA rails. Wero is A2A via SEPA instant rails and is a huge technilogical upgrade.

While WERO does seek to work internationally, it will also cross functionally partner with payment methods like Bizum.

So, it's actually way more complicated and represents a significant technological step forward. It's not just a new UI on old tech.

[u/Worth-Wonder-7386 → u/Own-Interaction-6970]

The cross functionality is key for this to be a system that works internationally.
But things seem to be moving along: https://www.abnamro.com/en/news/parties-sign-mou-to-accelerate-the-rollout-of-sovereign-pan-european-payment

[u/heyitsHoly]

We have that in brasil as well. But the orange mutherfucker said it was a threat to american businesses and imposed tariffs on brasil as ways of pressuring us to get rid of our payment system. Fuck that guy and everyone who supports him

[u/Shawn_miller]

As an American all I can say is "good on you". I love hearing about all these different ways European countries are taking back their digital sovereignty. I'm actually surprised it took this long.

[u/AusCan531]

May Australia, Canada and New Zealand join that system?

[u/Ok_Traffic_3240]

The world outside the US needs to move away from US products. The end.

[u/maarten3d]

Genuine question as someone that moved out of EU. Assuming visa/mastercard is still accepted is there any incentive for EU consumers to use it? I.E reduced cost, savings or anything outside of the idea of made in eu? Yes this personally would be enough for me but realistically speaking, I can’t speak for others.

[u/U2apple → u/maarten3d]

There is a similar system in China called union pay, many Asian and western store support it, when the EU one hit the road, with time goes many store outside EU will support it also when they system upgrade.
I guess one need keep a card support visa/mastercard any way, since it is the most used one atm

[u/Forest_Orc → u/maarten3d]

Shop owners don't have to rent a "card terminal", and it also works person to person like you were carpooling and need to pay 15 EUR for the petrol.

So hwile there is no "saved cost" for customer, there is for shop owner and it also works for regular people

[u/One-Try-9129 → u/maarten3d]

Not depending on US anymore for payments.

So definitely a market at employees of the International Court in Den Haag.

[u/RDV1996 → u/maarten3d]

It's not a credit card provider, so you don't need to pay for a credit card. That's the insentive. The only reason I even have a MasterCard is for a handful of online platforms, and it's a free debit one, lol.

[u/jointheredditarmy → u/maarten3d]

I think like a lot of similar systems there’ll be more incentives for merchants to accept it because of lower / no interchange fees.

Time and time again though we’ve seen what merchant accept is driven by what consumer use, not the other way around, otherwise everyone would be using debit cards because it costs almost nothing for merchants when you use one.

[u/ACoderGirl → u/maarten3d]

Yeah, my credit card gets me 2% cash back, extra insurance, the ability to do charge backs if I get scammed, pretty much optimal rates for currency exchange if I'm traveling, and a bunch of other free things. Debit, cash, or e-transfer doesn't really offer me anything. The interest rates of credit cards don't matter to me, as I always pay the balance off in full every single month.

I know the credit card companies can be pretty shitty and have a worrying amount of control, but at the same time, they're offering a lot of benefits.

[u/Timely_Camp3478 → u/ACoderGirl]

In Belgium, credit card benefits aren’t really a thing. There is no such thing as cashback or saving airline miles. So most people (at least in Belgium) won’t have a problem with missing those things since we never got them in the first place.

[u/SweatyNomad → u/ACoderGirl]

I'm. Guessing your American. Basically you're getting a slice back from the charges your card charge the retailer. Can't say I'm an expert, but basically visa/MasterCard are not allowed to charge the kind of fees they can in the US, so there is no protection fee to sling from.

Local systems often feel more secure, or maybe offered more security that Visa/MC did until they were legally mandated.

[u/r2k-in-the-vortex → u/ACoderGirl]

Your 2% cashback only exists because in the first place the credit card company adds a 4% merchant fee to your purchase. Basically take your money and give some back deal. What are you so happy about? You are getting fleeced.

[u/TryingMyWiFi → u/r2k-in-the-vortex]

You pay for those 4% even if you don't have a credit card, because businesses can't discriminate payment methods, so they bury this cost I to their pricing. So if you're not getting Cashback, you get the bad part of the deal only.

[u/muddermanden → u/ACoderGirl]

Who is paying the 2% cash back. Genuine question. Where does the money come from.

[u/Vennomite → u/muddermanden]

You are. Cc comoany charges the merchant like 3.5% of the transaction then graciously gives you 2% back. Merchant just raises prices.

[u/ThinkAboutThatFor1Se → u/Vennomite]

Not in the EU, the transaction fees are limited and they can’t be passed on directly.

For example, Visa interchange fees for merchants in the EU are capped at 0.2% for debit cards and 0.3% for credit cards

[u/SeaSharpModHer → u/ACoderGirl]

Americans having random ass passive effects on their cc is fucking sending me, you people really can't live if everything you own/do isn't full on in your face capitalistic.

[u/AlpacaCavalry → u/SeaSharpModHer]

> random ass passive effects on their cc

I'm wheezing at the wording

[u/Reddituser183 → u/SeaSharpModHer]

It is a dystopian nightmare and it’s only getting worse.

[u/zaftpunk → u/SeaSharpModHer]

It’s that not the norm everywhere? I live in east Asia and I get lots of similar benefits like that too?

[u/snozzberrypatch → u/ACoderGirl]

Who do you think is paying for the benefits that you get from your credit card? Do you think they're giving you 2% cash back as a form of charity?

You are paying for those benefits. They're paid for by the interest that you pay the credit card companies, the annual fees that you pay the credit card companies, and the transaction fees that the businesses pay to the credit card companies for every transaction. Businesses factor those transaction fees into the price of their goods, so in effect you are paying an extra couple percent on everything you buy because of these transaction fees.

[u/Dense_Purchase4087 → u/snozzberrypatch]

I am a BofA PRE holder. I get 2.5% cash back on everyday spend and 4% cash back on dining and travel. Then if I use the cashback points to buy airline tickets I get a 20% discount. Then there's lifestyle credit of $150, airline credit of $300, and priority pass. Even though the AF is $550, I more than easily get than back.

The benefits I get are partially due to my annual fees, but also from other people not paying off their credit card balances in time and getting interest. So because I'm disciplined with my spending, I get to reap the rewards of other's poor management

[u/NZObiwan → u/Dense_Purchase4087]

This is one of the fundamental differences between Europe and the US. In Europe people believe financial institutions shouldn't be able to take advantage of anybody, but in the US there's much more acceptance of it because you "get to reap the rewards of other's poor management".

I'm not trying to say you personally are immoral, but I do find the system itself pretty distasteful.

[u/Gingercatgonebad → u/Dense_Purchase4087]

The benefits are mostly from transaction fees merchants have to pay the payment platform, not from interest payments from late payers. These 2-5% fees are passed in into higher costs for every one (unless the local law lets it be passed back on to the cardholder for that particular transaction). Also merchant fees are higher for benefit-providing cards ( can be a few more percent), which are generally not passed on in the transaction specifically in my experience but do again get passed on to the consumer in higher overall prices for everyone

[u/Traditional-Storm-62]

yeah there's a reason Russia build their own mir payments processor as a direct competitor to Visa and Mastercard

[u/Traditional-Storm-62 → u/[deleted]]

this was after 2014 so kinda?

the point is that you cant really rely on foreign payment providers if you cant guarantee good relations with them

it doesnt really matter who's fault it is that relations are souring, only that they do

[u/medaumplacebo]

Yeah, they created the PIX that Brazil somehow uses for years.

[u/danyolito]

It's about time!

[u/HoMasters]

Good. And I say this as an American: fuck Visa and MC and all other oligopolies and monopolies.

[u/ChemiWizard]

Biggest tackway is that a non EU company gets a couple percent on every transaction they service. Ends up being 10s of billions of dollars. That could either be profit/employment for a EU company ( because Visa/Mastercard dont offer anything innovative or unique) or we could have a very modest fee in EU and return that profit to the retailers who really earned it.

For most business any equipment changeout would be less than they pay Visa/MC in a year.

[u/slasher-fun → u/ChemiWizard]

Not a couple percent, in the EU the transaction fees are caped at 0.2% for debit cards, 0.3% for credit cards.

[u/OGLikeablefellow → u/slasher-fun]

We could legislate that in America, we really should. Why are we paying credit card companies 3 percent. It's criminal

[u/slasher-fun → u/OGLikeablefellow]

So that people believe that they can magically get points or miles that they can turn into "free stuff", while they're actually paying them in the end (they're charged to the merchant, who in returns charges them to the customers by including these charges in the price of its merchandise).

[u/Historical_Lie_9932 → u/OGLikeablefellow]

But you won’t, because big money is in control. Unless you start voting wisely

[u/LostBreakfast1 → u/ChemiWizard]

It's 0.3% and they provide a service in return, such as insurance for unauthorized payments or undelivered services.

[u/Glittering-Coyote140]

Good riddance. Can't wait for this to become the norm. The United States cannot be trusted for a God damn thing anymore.

[u/mongojob → u/Glittering-Coyote140]

I mean our companies can be trusted to bleed everyone fucking dry

[u/Fake_Opinions69]

It's absolutely insane how isolated the US and it's citizens are going to be from the rest of the world now that we've all realized we can't trust America anymore

Most of the people I know spent their entire lives travelling in the US spending thousands upon thousands of dollars. Now? Now they're just going to Europe or directly to Mexico

I'm not sure how much the average american knows just how badly their "brand" has been damaged and gosh, it sure would be nice if Progressive Americans could actually vote and get rid of MAGA instead of crying about Democrats

[u/megatronchote]

Took them long enough.

[u/Actual-Wave-1959 → u/megatronchote]

Necessity is the mother of invention

[u/BubbaBrad]

Canada has had something similar with Interac since the 80s

[u/YarglahS]

I knew that France have it own system from 1967, the well known "carte bleue".

I learn today " carte bleue" was bought by visa in 2010. How french government allow this ??

[u/henrik_se → u/YarglahS]

There was also Eurocard that was eventually gobbled up by Mastercard:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurocard_(credit_card)

Everyone is acting like Europe somehow can't make systems like this. We can, we did, but the more predatory US card networks bought them. And we didn't protest, because we didn't think it would ever be used against us.

[u/Situation-Plenty]

Wakeup babe, EU has found their own UPI

[u/MemoryFit9875]

It seems it's like the Pix, from Brazil 🇧🇷

[u/ILoveBigCoffeeCups]

Don’t confuse wero with visa, Amex or Mastercard.
Wero works more like a debit card solution ( sort of like PayPal) but you can not use it as a credit card solution or go into credit. And that’s a big difference.

Edit: please people stop suggesting Europeans don’t use credit card payments. We do, and we do a lot. You know nothing so just shut it.

[u/rampant-ninja → u/ILoveBigCoffeeCups]

Visa and Mastercard provide debit card payment services too.

[u/Any-Platypus-3570]

Also the US credit cards are charging all merchants 3% on every purchase. So Europeans have a 3% sales tax that goes directly to American companies. Europe should absolutely get their own payment processors and hopefully they have a 0% fee or like 0.01% to pay for operations and staff.

EDIT: In Europe credit card fees are capped at 0.3% Thank you u/slasher-fun and u/laplongejr for pointing this out.

[u/slasher-fun → u/Any-Platypus-3570]

That's false. It's caped at 0.20% for debit cards, and 0.30% for credit cards. https://eur-lex.europa.eu/EN/legal-content/summary/fees-for-card-based-payments.html

[u/Sweet-Swimming2022]

I love this idea

[u/tomtom792]

Australia has this as well I think? EFTPOS is a payment standard that most debit and credit cards support here. Also no fees attached

[u/JoeyPsych]

It is also "cheaper" as you don't pay for transaction costs every time you use a credit card. Most people here pay debit, so creditcards aren't even really a method of paying anyway.

[u/Null_Commamd]

India has UPI and Rupay

[u/SIN-apps1]

As an american, and after the ICC bullshit, I want this to succeed so badly. Fuck our monolithic corpo scum, they should all fucking fail for going along with that orange fuck's bullshit.

[u/Kadakaus]

Once again, what fucking business do payment processors have with who pays for what?
Their job is to process payments, not to question the invoiced or the beneficiary.

They have policies, sure, but then, what business have they with a natural person who just so happens to be working for a cause that doesn't benefit the US.

I wonder if the White House or some other organization have a direct say in what they do or if it's just the processors sucking up to government interests in hope of building a monopoly.
Whichever the case, it seems to have backfired. I'd love the see Visa and Mastercard completely lose the european block.
It won't be easy but will be all the sweeter if it really happens.

[u/InterestingQuoteBird → u/Kadakaus]

It is already worse than that they also started policing what goods and services can be bought e.g. they started to put pressure on Valves Steam gaming market to restrict the sales of certain adult games because their conservative owners are offended by it.

[u/Rufawana]

Sign me up. Fuck the US

[u/Dakum_Adoyus]

One has to note that businesses that want to let they customers pay with their visa or mastercard need to rent a terminal and the those US companies get royalties on those terminals. Which means this dependence to US systems is a direct profit for the US that could stop now if things escalate.

[u/Tubafex → u/Dakum_Adoyus]

It's not "it could stop" anymore, it's "it will stop" by now.

European countries will implement a system independent of the US. They are pretty far along already. Other western countries like Canada, Australia etc. might join in too. There is just now way they will revert back to reliance on US organisations for that. And it's a direct consequence of the type of foreign policy the US chose to adopt.

[u/GauravJM]

Good technology. Hope it will not be misused

[u/opalesecent]

we've had interac in canada for as long as i've been alive, it's the greatest

[u/hairy_asian21]

As someone from South East Asia, I'm surprised y'all didn't already have this. We have this for years

[u/CheesecakeNo9867]

I mean, Brazil, China, India, Malaysia, and Singapore have had this for a decade with things like Pix, Alipay, Rupay + UPI, My QR, and Netspay respectively.

But sure, let's pretend that Europe came up with something new and revolutionary that no one has seen before.

[u/BathroomAcademic5920 → u/CheesecakeNo9867]

That is not my take out of this. I am sure each country in EU has already its own pay alternative, this is just EU countries collaborating and synergizing their systems to have an international pay system

[u/Liquor_D_Spliff → u/CheesecakeNo9867]

European countries have also had these technologies for decades. The point is an interoperable cross border switch that spans the whole continent.

[u/AmirulAshraf → u/CheesecakeNo9867]

I love how inter-operable the South East Asian ones are, you can pay using QR in Malaysia, Singapore, Indonesia and Thailand even if you have an account from one of these countries. ❤️

[u/wifflebal → u/CheesecakeNo9867]

This isn’t newsworthy because it’s supposedly “new and revolutionary technology” it’s because it’s a major geopolitical shift.

Europe is decoupling from the USA as fast as they can because they now see the US as a threat rather than an ally

[u/MeakerSE]

And once more, American soft power erodes some more.

[u/This-Artichoke9052]

This is uPI adoptation from India

[u/Scuffy97_]

The credit companies only have themselves to blame for being so greedy and controlling.

[u/Nogardtist]

payment processors are like we dont like you buying porn games on steam

and we are like just processes the payment ffs payment processor

ironically these payment processor would sponsor criminal politicians without a second thought

[u/FeDeKutulu]

Bro do you even Mercadopago?

[u/mitchins-au]

Yes. Let’s cut these payment processors down a peg or two

[u/Malair]

Here in Ireland we will bring in own system, it wont be as good as whats already there, it will take ages to build, and the company will be owned by someone who is friends with the politicians.

[u/don1843]

Is it called Rupay ?

[u/2020havoc]

Wow, I remember using something like that in Singapore 12 years ago. India has had one for about a decade. Thailand, Indonesia have QR payment. China of course is miles ahead. I'm surprised how it's such a big deal for Europe.

[u/No_Nectarine_7910 → u/2020havoc]

Mainly because the EU are multiple countries.

[u/Lucky-Vegetable-2827 → u/2020havoc]

Each EU country already has a system in place that don’t need US. The work is being done to erase the US intermediary from transactions BETWEEN countries.

[u/Sick_and_destroyed → u/2020havoc]

There was one, or even several in all EU countries, this one is one unified system for all EU countries

[u/EspectroDK → u/Sick_and_destroyed]

Also, it's designed to be sovereign. This is eventually going to hurt MasterCard a lot - all their clearing transactions across Europe through different payment schemes generate a lot of revenue today that will rather quickly evaporate.

[u/interstellartopmovie → u/2020havoc]

We have it already in every country in Europe… Twint in Switzerland, Satispay in Europe, etc etc

[u/Buuhhu → u/2020havoc]

Individual countries inside EU also has or had this for a long time, but this is a centralized one that EU makes not individual countries meaning one that is accepted anywhere in EU. Because of this it also has a chance of becoming big enough that other countries outside of EU would accept a EU card akin to visa and mastercard

[u/bippos → u/2020havoc]

Well yes because the EU are multiple countries. We already have such a system in Sweden Norway Denmark etc

[u/BitterStop3242]

So, what will this mean for non-EU travelers?  Will they be unable to use Visa/MC

[u/ledow → u/BitterStop3242]

Nothing.

It's just "another way to pay" but one that's legally mandated to be European-only.

Europeans will still carry on using Visa and Mastercard, we just won't be FORCED to use them.

Did you ever hear or care about Switch, Maestro, Solo etc. when you were travelling in the UK? No. It was just a UK-only payment method that we could use as one of many options. (The fact that Visa/Mastercard bought all those solutions up tells you everything you need to know about how much the US wants to control the world, and how willing the world was to allow that).

[u/Past-Obligation1930 → u/ledow]

Pisses me off that we used to actually have domestic alternatives to Visa / Mc and we didn’t block them being bought up. If we’d stayed in the EU and kept one, it would probably be the bloody standard.

[u/bwahthebard → u/ledow]

My first payment card was a Switch card. Such a novelty seeing the shop's name I'd bought something at, but waiting a month for the statement to arrive.

[u/Vast-Palpitation-426 → u/BitterStop3242]

No most of these new sovereign technologies/companies aren't meant to replace foreign companies by force they're just meant to be an existing alternative to avoid foreign powers having an effective "kill switch". But it's still a free market.

[u/Pimpwerx]

Yeah. We have to add support for this payment method. EU really is at least trying to do right by consumers.

[u/zeno]

There's already a great model for this: Brazil's PIX