r/videogames • • 7h ago

News / Trailers / Articles Bioware is dead

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191

u/countryd0ctor 7h ago

How utterly ironic that this happens when we have two spiritual successors for Mass Effect in the development from different devs right now.

22

u/metalbusinessbear2 7h ago

Oh wow, I only knew of Exodus. What's the other?

25

u/Deckard_Red 7h ago

Probably thinking of Expanse Osiris

15

u/Rad_Dad6969 7h ago

People should limit their expectations. First time in 3D action space for that studio. They make amazing RPGs and im excited to see what they cook up for a story. But im not expecting to be wowed by gameplay.

(And exodus looks the other way around to me. Ive seen a few videos where characters made me cringe)

9

u/Odd-Asparagus7633 7h ago

In fairness, the most Bioware wowed us with gameplay the worst the writing got... I think I'd take a slightly jankier gameplay experience if it meant better writing.

4

u/TheDMRt1st 7h ago

Expanse: Osiris Reborn’s character dialogue definitely sounds pretty bad in the gameplay I’ve seen so far which is such a shame.

2

u/Cyborg-Warlock 6h ago

I was shocked at how bad the writing and VA work was in the demo. I hope they make some major fucking revisions because of it

2

u/Antarioo 6h ago

Rogue trader had a lot of that too. haphazardly sprinkled around voiced dialogue with questionable quality. tons of misspoken words.

and that's not to mention owlcat has a habit of releasing absolute bug filled messes.

7

u/Cassandrahowling 7h ago

Mass effects gameplay was only ever passable.

3

u/Fells 7h ago

Thats a hot take.

4

u/Qaeta 6h ago

Eh, ish. ME1 was rooooouuugh, ME2 tightened it up a bit but was still pretty clunky. ME3 is, IMO, where it was at it's best. MEA went too far and needed to reel things back in. 1-3 were great for their story and characters, not their gameplay.

2

u/Deckard_Red 6h ago

Ah I far prefer the gameplay in ME1 but that’s me

3

u/--TYGER-- 2h ago

I played Mass Effect 1 for the first time quite recently since people keep raving about how good it is. I happened to find the conversation glitch that fully levelled up those stats and it completely negated "bioware conversation" as a gameplay loop and exposed the generic / bland 3rd person shooter underneath

2

u/MarioFanaticXV 6h ago

Really? The combat was extremely repetitive with very little enemy variety and almost no reason to change up your tactics. I played through the trilogy a couple years ago on veteran, and there was only one fight throughout the entire trilogy that required me to do anything outside of the norm.

6

u/Fells 6h ago

I'd argue that ME:2 leveled up combat fluidity in action rpgs and brought near bungie level gun play to a different genre.

That being said I see where you are coming from, you pick your combat path and dont need to deviate from it, very much a smash your way through kind of game.

1

u/MarioFanaticXV 6h ago

I'm only familiar with Bungie from Halo. What else did they work on?

1

u/Fells 6h ago

Halo and Destiny are their big things.

1

u/NegativeEBTDA 6h ago

Just like Mass Effect 1 then!

1

u/sniperpal 6h ago

Owlcats made nothing but bangers so far so they know what makes a good game at least. If you’re worried about a studio being unable to transition to 3D well for the first time, may I introduce you to Helldivers 1 and Helldivers 2. Arrowhead knocked it out of the park with that transition and they’re a pretty flawed studio. Some real pros like Owlcat can nail it, I expect

1

u/Cyborg-Warlock 6h ago

My excitement got the better of me, and I made the mistake of preordering Osiris. So far, the writing and VA performance have been abysmal.

Still plenty of time till release, but the game should be treated with incredible skepticism, imo. Wait for this shit to released made the mistake of trusting Owlcat because of the previous releases.

3

u/AntwnSan 7h ago

The Expanse

37

u/Safe_Masterpiece_995 7h ago

Spiritual successors never hit the same...

19

u/EtheusRook 7h ago

I mean, Unicorn Overlord > Ogre Battle 64. 

5

u/HellzAssassn 7h ago

Holy shit, Unicorn Overlord is similar to Ogre Battle 64? I had my eye on that game, but didn't watch too much on it.
Now that piques my interest, heavily. Ogre Battle 64 was one of my fav N64 games.

2

u/EtheusRook 7h ago

Yep. It's very similar. Try the demo. It's glorious.

1

u/HellzAssassn 7h ago

I absolutely will, thanks! 👍

1

u/18strawberryfields 7h ago

Great game. And -- as an added bonus, my 12 year old son got into with me and now plays tactcis games with me :)

7

u/Trenta_Is_Not_Enough 7h ago

I'd also say Rune Factory > Harvest Moon, hell, Stardew Valley is the peak example of a spiritual successor eclipsing the main game.

1

u/EtheusRook 7h ago

Oh, yeah. Definitely. 

Also Grim Dawn for Titan Quest and Path of Exile for Diablo.

-1

u/Driller_Happy 7h ago

I'm personally not a fan of the combat stuff

1

u/spookymulderfbi 5h ago

Craziest example possible

1

u/EtheusRook 5h ago

But best.

0

u/Therealhatsunemiku 7h ago

I think Bioshock > Systemshock too but that might be unpopular

1

u/NonSupportiveCup 7h ago

Hold up, let me get my pitchfork.

38

u/VideoGameJumanji 7h ago

That’s just objectively not true as a broad statement 

4

u/HyliaSymphonic 7h ago

Legitimate question what “spiritual successor” do you think is on par with its originator? I can’t think of a single one that isn’t just an okay clone of the original. 

12

u/mightbone 7h ago edited 7h ago

Spiritual successor isn't well defined here i think but you have a lot fo games clearly deriving from a parent game independent of what happens to its parent.

Bioshock series is an obvious older one.

Bloostained Ritual of the night was a clear successor to 2d castlevanias that is widely considered to have delivered after they fixed it up.

Path of Exile was essentially inspired by Diablo 2 and is often regarded as the better product over Diablo games since.

You also have games like Undertale and LISA that are clear spinoff inspirations from the old Earthbpund games.

You also have hybrid spinoffs like Hollow Knight that wanted to take Metroidvania and inject Souls formula.

Like spinoffs often become their own thing entirely.

-5

u/HyliaSymphonic 7h ago

I wouldn’t define most of those as “spiritual successors” so much as games in the same genre. 

Bloosdstained was fine. (The 16 bit ones were absolute fire tho.)

I guess I think mostly of stuff like sea of stars and that god awful mega man clone. 

2

u/mightbone 6h ago

Well thats always debatable because unless it's a clone, spiritual successor seems to be just a matter of opinion on how much is inspired, borrowed or taken by another game.

Id argue any game drawing heavily from a previous title in clear fashion is a spiritualnsuccessor and that list is large. Just a few other titles I know come to mind, and I bet I could find 10 or 20 more:

Pizza Tower seems heavily inspired by and a spiritual successor to the Wario World games.

Pillars of Eternity is clearly a spiritual successor to the Baldurs Gate style of games.

The Outer Worlds a clear successor to Fallout (even made by Fallout devs from Obsidian.)

All 3 of those were solid titles as well.

2

u/vaylin945 6h ago edited 3h ago

Path of Exile is most certainly a spiritual successor to Diablo 2. I could probably link over 100 sources of the lead developers for path of exile citing diablo 2 as their main inspiration and the catalyst for path of exiles existence. Here is a Chris Wilson, a founder and ex lead developer of Grinding Gear Games discussing how path of exile came to be during a keynote he presented at the NZ Games Developer Conference just a few weeks ago. He says that no other arpg hit the same as Diablo 2 and so, "So, we said, you know, Kiwi attitude, we can just do it ourselves".

I would argue that very few games fall under the "spiritual successor" label more than Path of Exile does.

6

u/OHaZZaR 7h ago

System shock to Bioshock comes to mind

1

u/LurkerThrowaway73 4h ago

Better yet: Neuroshock Prey 2016 to System Shock

1

u/salibert 2h ago

gothic I/II to drova forsaken kin. All three fantastic games.

systemshock/bioshock to prey(2016) aswell.

harvest moon series to stardew valley.

cod to titanfall, even if it wasnt hugely successfull the titanfall games especially 2 are well regarded.

simcity to cities: skylines.

-1

u/Misragoth 7h ago

Nah, Bioshock is a pretty big step back from System shock

1

u/OHaZZaR 7h ago

Haven't played system shock so I don't have an opinion on the matter. I was only parroting the general consensus, but it could be out of Bioshock's sheer popularity and relative recency compared to system shock.

1

u/Ok-Fudge-380 5h ago

You're in the very slim minority on that one, bud.

1

u/Misragoth 5h ago

That's fine, I have seen what makes the majority cheer

2

u/Korasa 7h ago

Stardew Valley

1

u/Deadsoup77 6h ago

Jurassic World Evolution from JPOG

1

u/UtkuOfficial 3h ago

League of Legends, Overwatch, Path of Exile, Assassin's Creed.

Do you need more or nah?

1

u/DeuceOfDiamonds 19m ago

Fallout far surpasses Wasteland, as good as the latter was.

1

u/whosline07 6h ago

World of Warcraft was a spiritual successor to the Warcraft games and it's doing alright, unless you're just straight up talking about game genre.

2

u/HyliaSymphonic 6h ago

A sequel is not a spiritual successor.

1

u/whosline07 5h ago

It's not really just a sequel though. What are you talking about with spiritual successor?

1

u/iTellItLikeISeeIt 5h ago

From Wikipedia:

A spiritual successor (sometimes called a spiritual sequel) is a product or fictional work that is similar to, or inspired by, another previous product or work, but (unlike a traditional prequel or sequel) does not explicitly continue the product line or media franchise of its predecessor, and is thus only a successor "in spirit", despite the usual lack of actual spirituality.

For example:

  1. System Shock -> Bioshock
  2. SimCity -> Cities: Skylines
  3. Banjo-Kazooie -> Yooka-Laylee

World of Warcraft is simply another game in the Warcraft franchise.

1

u/whosline07 4h ago

So my point should have been that Warcraft was a good spiritual successor to Warhammer 40k and PoE was a good spiritual successor to Diablo.

0

u/artorias_kiin 7h ago

Demon's Souls to dark souls

1

u/UtkuOfficial 3h ago

Thats a sequel no?

You can't call it a spiritiual successor when its the same devs and the exact same mechanics, exact same story telling etc.

The only difference is like one big city vs seperate levels.

0

u/erikabp123 6h ago

Path of Exile to Diablo 2. Only one I can think of

-1

u/Vlad-Djavula 6h ago

Elden Ring from Dark Souls, Dark Souls from Demon's Souls/King's Field, Dragon Age: Origins from Baldur's Gate 1 and 2, there's plenty that went beyond its originator.

6

u/HyliaSymphonic 6h ago

Those games are all the same studio making a sequel. Elden Ring could be called Dark Souls 2 or Demons Souls 5 

1

u/Vlad-Djavula 6h ago

Dark Souls 4 actually, but i take your point.

3

u/damian1369 7h ago edited 4h ago

One of them is being made by the OG Bioware/ME devs. Bioware is my intro into gaming greatnes since 1998. Black Isle/interplay were the only big ones for me before that, but that was like a year. Bg1 forwards, I was there. I'm still advocating MDK on every "what remake do we need" on every post that asks that question and no one knows what the hell I'm talking about. I supported them for almost 2 decades, and followed their every step. This "thing" that's closing now, if true, is not Bioware. And it hasn't been for a loooong time now. The more they sold themselves out the more obvious it was that wasn't the same studio. I checked out after inquisition. This is a death of a rat that was piloting a corpse. EDIT: the pupeteer is EA. They are the grim reaper/cespool of the downfall of western gaming studios. I hope one day all EA shills and dimwits that buy their products get gonorhea and just straight up shit themselves to death.

2

u/Quenz 7h ago

Says you. BioShock, Dark Souls (stretch since it's the same studio), Cities: Skylines, Undertale, Project Wingman (though Ace Combat is still running), Telltale Games to old LucasArts games (some are the same franchise.)

1

u/weisswurstseeadler 7h ago

On the other hand, let's be honest, there have been probably more disappointing sequels for the fans, than great ones (edit:) overall.

Not specifically for BioWare, or Mass Effect series - for both of which I'm out of the loop - but overall big/successful deep fantasy games/universes.

1

u/TakenBacon90 7h ago

Stardew Valley

Bioshock

Sleeping Dogs

Dark Souls

Dragon Age Origins (spiritual successor to Baldurs Gate)

Anyone feel free to add more that I missed?

2

u/GenkiLawyer 4h ago

I'd add Prey (another spiritual successor to the System Shock games)

1

u/StopMarminMySparm 6h ago

Mass Effect was a spiritual successor to Kotor.

1

u/Orleanian 6h ago

Bullshit.

Perfect Dark (Goldeneye)

Assassains Creed (Prince of Persia)

Project Highrise (SimTower)

Cities:Skylines (SimCity)

Prey (System Shock)

Dark Souls (Demon's Souls)

Many others...all scratchin the proverbial itches.

1

u/PaulTodkillAuthor 3h ago

I got a chance to play Exodus at Gamescom and.. It does hit. I was really impressed with it. The voice acting is a little overdone but the actual gameplay is rock solid.

1

u/FrankPapageorgio 3h ago

Mighty No. 9 was the only thing I've ever backed on Kickstarter and seriously regretted it

1

u/se_endelica_dema 6h ago

Pretty sure two spiritual successors are exactly the reason why ea shut down bioware. They saw they can't turn new ME into another live-service trаsh for hmаn trаsh, when there were two potentially good games in the same setting on the horizon.

1

u/ArmadilloPrudent4099 27m ago

Bro Owlcat can't make a polished game. They are too Russian for that. It's all Soviet jank.

I've played and loved all their games for the ironman grindfest challenge of it. But they are ALWAYS a buggy mess and they don't understand pacing.