We knew this was bound to happen, so sad we might never see another ME game. But to be honest it’s probably for the best. They would never live up to the original trilogy. At least we got the LE for its final send off.
its weird to me because i swear i feel like mass effect could generate a lot of money if they took their time on it. but thats what i think is wrong with the gaming industry barely anyone wants to take the time to make a good game and rather make a quick buck.
Which is a shame because while there has been some truly wonderful multiplayer games the single player rpgs are just more immersion and world building and id hate to lose that
AAA single player games undoubtedly make money, but it's nowhere near what a successfully F2P multiplayer title generates in a single year, and those do it every year, not just once.
They are chasing a golden goose. Trouble is, most of them can't run.
I wouldn’t use GTA as a good example of the next thing that studios want, considering they’re famously time consuming to make and “we got _ before GTA6” is a meme format onto itself.
They either want a quick buck or the next Fortnight or GTA that they can milk for billions.
Exactly. The downfall is inevitable once these companies get such large corporate oversight. I cannot think of a single one that succeeded after being absorbed by some soulless entity like EA. Bungie, Blizzard, Bioware, Bethesda, all of it's the same story. The "We let them do their own thing" is absolute bullshit, and always has been.
ES6 is gonna suck too, and then we'll watch Bethesda call it quits.
Warhorse! KOTOR, Dragon Age (1,Inqusition, Veilguard, 2), Mass Effect LE and Kingdom Come Deliverance 1&2. Those are my favorite games all time. Still need to play CDPR games and BG3.
Why bother? Better spit out another FIFA every year. Studio itself/studio belonging to publicly traded company is a kiss of death for any creativity or originality.
Our entire economic system is built on the pursuit of endless escalating profit. Profit above all else. All that matters is money. Everything can be sacrificed if it enriches those who are already unfathomably and excessively wealthy.
Private equity is but one small face of that. The rot begins at the source.
agreed. line go up all the time, quarter by quarter. it's the mindset of a cancer cell, where you have to be growing and increasing the rate of growth as well all the damn time. Shit's so so fucked
i feel like mass effect could generate a lot of money if they took their time on it
Maybe with a new studio but people need to accept that Bioware has been shit for decades. Andromeda, Anthem, Veilguard were all terrible, terrible games, and it was the studio itself doing the bad decisions, EA has by all means been uncharacteristically patient with them until now.
yeah i meant in general, if bioware took their time or if another company actually takes their time instead of rushing it out the door for a quick buck due to the name then they could make more. sure mass effect will bring money but if done right could bring even more money but companies or studios dont give a fuck about that so long as it brings money in
ME4 was announced 6 years ago. If 6 years of development isn't "taking their time", I don't know what is. Mass effects 1-3 were all released in the span of 6 years.
like legitimately taking their time, but even back then they were rushed to get 2 and 3 out. they wanted to take more time. my fear is what happened to starfield, it took over 10 years to make or in the making just for it to end up like jt did on launch.
To be honest, the fact that it wasn't out after 6 years means it was very likely to be as unfocused and bad as Starfield. If they had a good idea, they would get that finished and out the door, but they clearly did not so were spinning wheels in EARLY development, per their own words.
yeah pretty much, i guess if it was already taking that long then i figured they wanted to do it big. its just with gamings new technology and features i feel like they could have done amazinc things with mass effect. i still feel like they could do amazing things, my only thing was making it a darker tone like the first one or darker.
It's not just about time. It's so difficult to make a fun video game. It's difficult to make art in general, but for games you need multiple people that are literally masters in their field to coordinate together to bring the vision about, usually for a little less than their skills are actually worth.
Look at video game writing. It's oftentimes bad because writing is a skill that takes years to develop, a skill with a premium. Most writers with enough talent to "write good" can make as much if not far more money simply writing their own books. Any industry that demands a lot while paying not quite enough will have this sort of brain drain.
all i was hoping with the new mass effect game is that it had implemented all the good stuff about the other games and maybe pulled features or whatever from other games and put into it. i was just hoping they were trying to make the new game over the top, like blow every other sci fi space themed game away.
While I think there's plenty to criticize EA for, if you read about the development of both Andromeda and Veilguard, time wasn't the issue.
They had lots of time. Mass Effect was 2007, Mass Effect 2 2010, and Mass Effect 3 in 2012. A banger all-timer trilogy in the span of five years.
They then took five years between ME3 and Andromeda. That was 2017. And it was the studio's first big failure. It's now been nine years since Andromeda. That is plenty of time to make a new Mass Effect had that been what they wanted to do. Hell, even if you measure from the announcement that they were exploring ME5. That was 2020. Six years ago.
Look at Dragon Age. A full decade between Inquisition - a game of the year game BTW - and Veilguard. Ten years, and we got Veilguard.
And yes, Anthem was mixed in there. But Anthem wasn't rushed either. Development in Anthem started in 2012 after ME3, and it was released in 2019. Seven years.
Compare to a series like Assassins Creed over at Ubisoft. They make the same game over and over and for awhile were doing yearly releases, now it's still every few years. Waaaaaay more games released in the same time period.
The story of Bioware is that over time the people who made the games special left. And the people who replaced them couldn't live up to what they had done. They were given plenty of time to make three games, and all of them were considered failures. I'm sorry but this isn't just a "quick buck" scenario. They had time to cook, they just didnt.
I think the problem is the opposite. It takes a huge amount of capital to create a good game, and there is zero guarantee that the investment will pay off even with a popular franchise.
DragonAge Veilguard had 150+ full-time employees working on it, plus contractors, and even if you ignore the time spent on the ill-fated "live service" plan it still took ~5 years to create. How much money was spent just paying employees?
Gamble once and lose and now you're studio is either out of business of being bought by EA so they can stripmine anything valuable and then shutter it.
They announced ME5 nearly 6 years ago. They took their time. I'd argue that's plenty of time to release a game, or GOD FORBID release a trailer/screenshot/anything.
For reference, not that it would've released on the system, but the Switch had around an 8 year lifespan, and people were BEGGING for new hardware by the end of it. If you're taking 3/4's of an already long console gen with literally nothing to show for it, you're not just taking your time, you're either bloated, or outright mismanaged.
The teaser was announced 6 years ago yet somehow it was still in “early development“. At a certain point, you can’t excuse lack of game development progress.
It's not just about time but talent. You need to hire a lot of actually talented good people to make a good game, not just hire X amount of people and assume they can automatically make a great game given enough time and money.
the problem as always as any time you have success, you now have successful people who other studios are all trying to poach and who themselves having made a bunch of money are now looking to go make their own studio to try to make that other game idea they've had for 20 years.
Your 'dream teams' that make incredible games very rarely stay around for that long and then you start to realise that the one incredible say creative director was crucial in managing everyone. Or that one writer who helped everyone else make something great.
the even bigger issue is a studio in private hands without shareholders to appease can choose to reduce profits, pay talent more to keep them around, delay a game, decide to fix a major problem to undo a major mistake, etc. A studio sold to a publicly traded company has a CEO who wants the share price to go up, now they want to squeeze the talent by paying less, they won't match an offer from another studio to keep someone super important so the team breaks up quicker, they won't delay games to fix major issues or rework something that isn't good enough.
Publicly owned companies are honestly just a cancer, where the only thing that matters is the share price and maximising profits, not maximising quality.
Even if Bioware stayed private it would struggle as talent leaves over time, but when they got sold to EA, the writing was already on the wall.
EA bought bioware basically on the basis of ME1 about to be a massive hit. Then both the blueprint was there for the sequels and the talent wanted to stick around to finish it. Bioware fell to pieces after that.
Lest we forget, that this is the same studio who received a 7 year dev window for Anthem, when EA checked in on them 5 years into that window (three months before the game was supposed to be shown off at E3), Bioware didn't even have an elevator pitch for the game. And note that Andromeda came out nearly 10 years ago, and ME5 has only ever been recently mentioned as being "in early development".
Time is not the problem that Bioware has/had, it's that they're internally lead by management that doesn't know how to manage and thus squanders their time.
None of the veterans who were responsible for the old hits have been around for almost a decade at this point.
And the new blood which replaced them just wasn’t able to make it work.
Publishers like EA don't want a lot of money, they want all of the money. You need a live service game to get all the money, and nobody here wants a live service Mass Effect game, because that's not what the series is about.
Broadsword took over SWTOR and they’re actually doing an excellent job (new raid coming out in December, the cosmetic outfits are damn good, 8.0 update impending with new levels and story)
Wow, it’s gonna keep going through this? I guess I didn’t realize they were that disconnected. Maybe I need to get back into SWTOR just for the hope Broadsword’ll become new BioWare lol
SW:TOR never stopped on chugging along. In December it’ll be the 15 year anniversary of its release. The Feast of Prosperity event is going currently going on.
Are parts of it still janky? Yes. Have they overhauled a bunch of cutscenes to make them more cinematic? Yes. Added mounts your companion and pet can sit on? Yes. Textures dyes? Yes.
Honestly since Broadsword took over, it’s no longer being the ignore step-child game anymore and is getting some actual love and development.
yeah, Larian could pull it off, Supergiant might as well if they'd be willing & interested to work on an IP that isn't originally theirs, but idk if they have the kinda money to buy an IP
If EA had any heart at all, they’d charge something reasonable but not ridiculous for something they literally don’t want, but the problem is that EA doesn’t have a heart, especially not now under new ownership and with debts to repay.
CdPR could probably do it too, but idk if they wanna leave the Cyberpunk/Witcher development pattern
There's just no way CDPR could take it on with a new Witcher DLC, new Witcher game, new Cyberpunk game all in development. These are huge budget endeavors they can't add a third to their plate. Unless they're full on scrapping the Cyberpunk sequel to buy an IP and dev for it. Which I just don't see why they would do that.
I’d take waiting even longer than it would’ve taken if BioWare was allowed to continue in exchange for a studio owning it that I’m more sure will use it someday and trust more to do it justice eventually
Larian could do it but it's not really their cup of tea.
Owlcat games has potential though we'll have to see how The Expanse does.
Archetype entertainment would be an interesting contender if they proved they can deliver with Exodus when it comes out but rn the trust is kinda hit or miss.
I wouldn't hold my breath on EA selling anything tho. They basically never do ;-;
Owlcat is a huge unknown right now. The Expanse game will keep their attention for too long to get in on the ME IP, I fear, but if it works well they would be a good option, yeah.
You think the ME IP is going to be sold off soon? I don't. Even if this new EA is willing to sell or licence, which is not certain, I don't think people are going to be racing for the licence.
It will depend on whether or not the ME TV show is still happening, I think. EA will obviously hold on to the IP then.
If it isn't, it's dead weight unless they think they have a studio that can pump out relevant content in the next few years - which they don't. Selling it for a quick profit sooner rather than later makes sense then. And in that case, I would absolutely expect a bidding war between Embracer, CDPR, and Paradox. All three of them have a huge interest in securing a high-profile scifi IP that would be completely their own.
To be honest I'm working on the belief that the ME TV show is not happening. If it does, yeah, things are a little different and I'd be unsurprised if EA started shopping the IP around.
And yes if they were willing to sell the IP completely, I do think we might see some bidding on. Absolute nuclear best case (won't happen) would be EA sell the IP real soon, CDPR win the bidding, and they cancel Project Hadar for "New ME".
Unfortunately if Larian has sworn off ever doing another BG3 game because they hated working with Wizards of the Coast, I doubt buying an IP that is beholden to yet another gaming giant is something they would want to do.
Buying the IP would mean they didn’t answer to anybody but themselves. They were contracted by Wizards of the Coast, and what you’re describing would be them being contracted by EA, not buying the rights to the franchise.
Ah, gotcha, fair point. Unfortunately I don't think they would have the $$$ to broker with EA/the Saudis. Honestly, I think Amazon Games is truly the only studio that would even have a chance in hell at outright buying the rights, as much as no one wants to hear that.
Larian could absolutely pull off a great new Dragon Age CRPG that returns to its dark fantasy routes. Not so sure if they could pull of a Mass Effect game tho, they arent really a Sci-fi studio
It's not unheard of for a studio that doesn't specialize in sci fi to do it though. Bethesda's bread and butter was fantasy until they took over the Fallout franchise and basically made it what it is today. Though I'll admit I'm not the biggest fan of all their work with it.
I think only Larian or CDPR would be able to do it justice BUT it would still be different. But with all the things they have going on now, this won’t happen. Sad day indeed.
Yep, Larian and CDPR could do it, but they're enjoying their own successes and have stuff on their plate already. Last one I can think of is Owlcat, but I'm not sure they're big enough for that kind of game yet. We'll see with The Expanse.
Yeah, puts a lot of pressure on their expanse game. Now it's also their pitch for Mass Effect. Fingers crossed, but it's their first foray outside CRPGs.
CDPR definitely has more experience for an RPG shooter with Cyberpunk under their belt. Their writing is similar in tone to that era of Bioware as well. I haven't played the other Divinity games outside of Original Sin 1 and 2, but I know they were action RPGs so Larian would probably be able to do a solid Dragon Age game. I really wouldn't want Mass Effect or Dragon Age to be made in their turn-based isometric style, though. And their writing is a little too unserious for my tastes. Their games have dark subject matter, but it's all undercut by overly whimsical/tongue-in-cheek dialogue, melodrama, and comedic moments.
Oh God CDPR would be a full circle moment considering the first Witcher utilized the Aurora engine, but yeah, with The Witcher and Cyperpunk franchises being so huge, I don’t know if they would be interested in squeezing in another studio’s IP to their catalogue. :/
Warhorse could too I think. Also, just because the studio is gone doesn't mean the people are leaving the industry forever. There is hope they go on to be successful and then could potentially return to the franchise.
They announced they were working on ME5 back in 2020 but were apparently still in "early development". I don't think we were ever going to actually see it get made at that rate. Or, if it did escape development hell, it wouldn't be good.
This isn’t true in my opinion. If you handle an IP right and open it up to other creatives to try to tell the story you can get some gems. Look at XCOM handling Star Wars, Total War creating games for War Hammer, and maybe even Lord of the Rings across the decades. Game IPs don’t need to languish in one studios hands and other universes have managed to handle the risk and opportunities in both gaming media and in other media forms.
The corporations who own these amazing game IPs suck because they take down the franchises with them rather than find a way to license it to make interesting stories at different levels of investment. Not every game needs to be AAA.
Gosh you don't know how much I crave anything Mass Effect and how jealous I am that somebody at Disney turned their brain on with the latest Star Wars games. Zero Company was SO much fun and all the great banter gave me old BioWare nostalgia.
Imo Mass Effect is as great a universe as Star Wars. All EA ever had to do was allow other studios to make more Mass Effect games. Gimme a detective noir story on Omega, let me see the home worlds in all their glory, set these stories before the reaper invasion. Go smaller scale stories or local threads. I'd play a Telltale Mass Effect game. I'd play survival crafting game playing a Quarian whose pilgrimage went wrong. I'd play a walking simulator. Hell, even a city builder even though I can't think of how that would make sense right now. But whatever. The point is I LOVE this franchise.
But of course EA only cares about big money so they're not interested in doing anything with a RPG franchise that sold peanuts compared to their sports games. And now with the Saudis the chances are basically zero.
Please sell the IP to somebody who cares. Or license games like Disney does. I WILL buy these games.
Absolutely agree with you. They don’t even need to sell just let other studios in their umbrella take a stab.
Xbox games did this with Bethesda after the handling of the Fallout series recently.
In an ideal world we’d return back to the consumer friendly laws when television broadcasters couldn’t own the actual studios that made television series. They had to “buy” seasons. Movie theatres still operate this way after some companies tried integrate vertically to own the distribution of movies. The publishers shouldn’t have a hand in owning and operating game studios.
That’s true EA has some competent studios that can make games within the universe. Really just a matter of do they want to. ME IP has so much depth and content to explore.
Or Fallout. No matter whether you might believe that Bethesda ruined Fallout, you have to admit the franchise has actual momentum today because of what Bethesda was able to do with it.
Yep I just responded to someone else about Xbox games making moves with who can work on the IPs they own. It’s gone full circle and now and some of the original talent who worked on Fallout and then New Vegas have a shot to work on the remaster of New Vegas.
Yeah, I think it was really nice that 3 could just focus on being a good game but also stayed on the East Coast and didn't mess with the Fallout lore, which then allowed NV to continue the story on the West Coast, and then 4 once again stayed on the East Coast, then a TV show gets made that really gives faithful fan service of the West Coast lore and is seemingly going off into the Rockies now, which now gives the TV show a whole new region that hasn't really been explored yet and now they can carve out their own lore.
I feel like ME tried to do that with Andromeda and they did make a very fun well-playing game, but kind of failed to make everything feel equally as important because for all the new lore that Fallout 3 and 4 created, at least they felt connected to the rest of the games. I am an Andromeda defender and think it would have been a fun series if it was fleshed out, but I'll be the first to admit that Andromeda just didn't capture the same spark as the trilogy and it just felt like it didn't matter what you did in it because it would never affect the original world we fell in love with.
No matter how you feel about their story, which I do actually agree is lacking, Fallout 3 and 4 really nailed the atmosphere and feeling of living and adventuring in the Fallout wasteland. And the TV show is doing such a fantastic job of feeling like Fallout, too. I don't have the same faith that Mass Effect could be done like that by anyone else, though, considering even Bioware seemed to have started to lose the sauce by ME3, which, lest we forget, at launch was not universally well-received.
Remember Mass Effect was something we only got because they weren't doing another KotOR. Whatever brilliant game devs are cooking up that's new and at most a spiritual successor can be every bit as great as ME was and as KotOR was.
My ideal choice would be Crystal Dynamics (so Embracer), to be fair. But I could see both CDPR and Paradox jumping to buy the IP, and between those two I'd expect CDPR to outbid Paradox.
I have the same thoughts, but it's still a bit overwhelming. I almost can't believe they're dead even if I had a feeling it was going to happen. I can't say I was looking forward to any new games by them, but the legacy the studio as a whole had is going to be around for a long time.
I thought this Mass Effect game was their last chance. But since the game was still in early development (after being announced almost 6 years ago) , I'm not shocked EA pulled the plug.
I hate seeing people lose their jobs especially in this day and age but let’s be real. The BioWare we loved from the late 90’s and early 2000’s was long gone.
Given the current state of affairs, I give it about 1~2 years before we see an indie game being developed by a group of former Mass Effect leads.
(Let's just keep fingers crossed that it doesn't turn out like that vampire/witch game made by the Ubisoft guy who fumbled all his good will by becoming a massive AI-bro)
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u/paperclipboi 8h ago
We knew this was bound to happen, so sad we might never see another ME game. But to be honest it’s probably for the best. They would never live up to the original trilogy. At least we got the LE for its final send off.