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u/TarOskin 14h ago
please let there be one more patch
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u/nemestrinus44 11h ago
Mana Tide Totem is now raid wide
Chain Lightning damage has been nerfed by 10% at all ranks
Maelstrom Weapon now only increases the cast speed of Lightning bolt by 3/6/9/12/15% instead of 4/8/12/16/20% per stack
- dev note: we still saw some people that wanted to play as a dps shaman so we went ahead and removed any reason a raid lead might have to not only bring healing shamans.
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u/Rubzje 12h ago
The patch will be the final nail in the coffin. They will probably just remove chain lighting or something.
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u/GreenLightt 7h ago
Shaman now shoot out murloc plushies that may bounce off a target to someone else.
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u/DanielTeague 4h ago
Now it sounds like a Vampire Survivors item just got picked up and Shaman everywhere are just running around auto-casting spells.
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u/GimbaledTitties 13h ago
Brother don’t worry about classes. Theyll always get updates
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u/R6wallbanger 13h ago
No shade against you but I see this comment a lot. Elemental was a brutally bad DPS spec for a year after SoD's release (briefly good in Gnomer but Enhance was #1 so why bother?). I made a similar post back when SoD launched and got replies like this, "just wait they'll get there!", but in reality they take far too long to action this stuff. Terrible to expect people to just suck it up for that long.
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u/nickpaz21 12h ago
No one is worried about power levels compared to other classes, its the direction and vision that blizzard has for the class. If blizz wants to move ele sham away from chain lightning then thats concerning for a lot of people. This is similar to whats been going on with sPriest.
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u/R6wallbanger 11h ago
raises hand I'm worried about how we compare to other classes lol. But I do agree the vision is also whack right now.
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u/panlakes 5h ago
Shadow priest is basically the same as vanilla spriest but with death added. What you’re referring to is people from tbc wanting mana battery back (which we kinda did with dark insp) or VT (lol GL with that without nerfing our other dmg). VE being on CD is not = ele shaman plight.
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u/goldsauce_ 10h ago
“Enhance was #1 so why bother” let me guess you played warrior in classic and warlock in tbc
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u/R6wallbanger 10h ago
Yup! I'm a damage player first and foremost, but I still have class favors I enjoy and want to see at the top of the list. Elemental shaman, or any lightning based spellcaster, is one of my favorite fantasy archetypes! So I wish Elemental was a top performing spec, so I can do what I want to do (lots of damage) with the fantasy I like the most (pew pew lightning).
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u/Synchrotr0n 13h ago edited 13h ago
Theyll always get updates
Excluding bug fixes, there's zero chance that Blizzard will make any significant changes to classes until the first major update is released, but according to the roadmap that's only in late March (at the soonest), which is also when the PvP season refreshes, so classes that suck will continue sucking for some good five months.
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u/Andvari_Nidavellir 14h ago
Earth Fury: Reduced to 1% increased critical damage and healing.
Find Treasure: Now also grants a chance to skip 1 spot ahead if there is a login queue on the PvP rule set.
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u/TarOskin 14h ago
Find Treasure: Changed to highlight players from your Friends List on the minimap, because the real treasure were the friends you made along the way.
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u/Y0RKC1TY 13h ago
Marks all pointless things on the map, because inside pointless things are treasure
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u/Ancient_Algae64 8h ago
Increases the drop chance and rate of all trash drops. One man's trash is another man's treasure.
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u/Skore_Smogon 14h ago
FUCK YEAH BOYS
ONE MORE PATCH TO IGNORE ROGUES AND NERF ELE SHAMANS
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u/Busy-Temperature5304 14h ago
I heard enough, from now on ele shamans cant crit, ever. Critical strike chance increases their dodge chance instead
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u/Busy-Temperature5304 14h ago
Frost mages: get a new spell "Absolute zero", Mana cost: 100, cast time: 5 sec. it instantly clears the entire dungeon, raid or gattleground when casted. (requires level 9)
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u/Mountain_Cry6298 13h ago
5 second cast time is way too long, just wait till the mage council hears about this
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u/PennyBunPudding 13h ago
Chain lightning hasa chance to stop the mobs heart and instantly kill it. The shaman then enters remorse all damage reduced by 99% for three years.
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u/Darthbobz 13h ago
What is wrong with rogues played it at 30 was good, Only issue I have is no passive running speed talent, don't understand how paladins get a 15% movement speed wearing full plate but us literal ninjas can sprint 50% faster every 5mins....
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u/Skore_Smogon 13h ago
I'm not a rogue player.
I have of course played them in the past but never as my main. I'm sure others can explain this better than me but I'll give it a shot.
DISCLAIMER - I don't give a fuck about Rogue's PVP kit. Every class uses skills in PVP that they never use in a raid. So that's not even on my radar.
Anyways; Rogues are a two button class.
You press button 1 that adds combat points and button 2 that spends combat points.
Usually 1 is the same button, over and over and it depends on your spec/weapon.
Only Sub in Forever switches this up where you can get a proc to hit Ambush instead of another Backstab.
And you press button 2 only after you have built 5 combo points which takes 15-20 seconds and just because you sometimes press Slice and Dice and sometimes press Rupture; does that really count as as a second finisher button when you push it so infrequently?
In the WoW podcast episode 2, the devs said that the aim for every spec was to press 3-4 buttons in a moment to moment rotation, and that those buttons should be skills/spells with less than a 10 second cooldown.
Rogue doesn't even come close to meeting this design goal because if you take it literally and are playing in a way that makes sense; Rogues are actually a 1 button class. Their moment to moment rotation is mainly Sinister Strike or Backstab and then every 15-20 seconds they press another skill.
And this gameplay is exactly the same as it was in vanilla.
Other classes may not be happy with the changes they have received; but they ARE changes. You could drop a 2005 rogue player into Forever and apart from the graphical updates bricking their potato PC they wouldn't play the game any differently.
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u/KNGrthur 12h ago
Yeah, rogues are the only class with a 1 sec global cooldown. And energy refresh at such a low rate for a sinister strike at 45 energy. ( 40 if talented. ) So you get to press sinister strike outside of the opener once every 3-4 seconds. And you will use all of your combo points to maintain slice and dice. Without combat potency, 5/5 talent it just feels bad.( Not in the game) Us rogues are not asking for to do more damage we are asking for a more enjoyable gameplay loop for dungeons and raids.
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u/thefalseidol 12h ago edited 12h ago
Without sounding like a pedant, because I agree with your point, but what "is" a button? So for example, ret pally has more abilities at face value, but I'm just hitting them all on CD/when the buff is about to expire. Not much thought or effort is going into whether I should holy strike/judgement/consecration. Even if other abilities are on the table, like exorcism or hammer of wrath, they are still completely binary: either I can push those buttons or I cannot.
So sure, it's more buttons, but I could make a little raptor talon and mash all 3-4 of my abilities and whatever is castable and off CD will fire. Not entirely optimal, but reasonably so, they'll go on CD and naturally stagger. Seal twisting will change that, I'm just making the case that the number of abilities you have is only as important as the choice to use X over Y is present.
I REALLY liked where ret was at in SOD with crusader strike divine storm and exorcism procs (and judgement still forcing a re-seal), and I know I'm kinda going on a bit of a paladin rant instead of talking about rogues, but this is, to me, the difference between having more buttons and having to mash your keyboard with more fingers. You had enough abilities that were close enough in CD that you had to be always trying to figure out in a split second what made the most sense to do next, and at any point exorcism would proc fuck it all up. you could kinda still face roll it, but it was much less optimal to do so.
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u/Shio__ 12h ago
(talking about endgame PvE) Rogue has no short CDs, so you only have your long 2min+ CDs that have no real impact on your main gameplay loop. Thats also why rogue is lowest APM class by a HUGE margin. Its like 20-25 APM. This was okay since most classes in classic were low APM and had no buttons but this changed for a lot of classes in forever but not for rogue. Which is weird since rogue should be "the best single target dps class". Like no rogue wants to be afk at the keyboard so white hits can fill the damage meter. Theres no fun in playing the class in PvE.
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u/DrainTheMuck 5h ago
Yeah that’s crazy too because thematically rogues should be a high apm class, pretty weird design
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u/Skore_Smogon 12h ago
I dunno man, you are preaching to the choir with me.
I would have much preferred they leaned harder into the SoD style gameplay. I mained Mage Healer in SoD but I had every class at 60.
I liked that you had a basic rotation but it was interspersed with dynamic procs that broke up that rotation and players that were on top of things did better damage than those that weren't.
There's little to no skill expression baked into the classes in Forever. I think they're making a mistake with how simple things are, unless they are somehow hiding things that we won't discover until after launch.
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u/Melbuf 12h ago edited 12h ago
honestly i would flat out remove slice and dice and just make that our base attack speed across all specs. opens up the use of all the other finishers on all specs and now we have the combo points to spend on them without having to deal with S&D all the time
the improved S&D talents can be replaced with something that influence the speed of energy regen so we can use more abilities faster. (think a talent that is basically the 6p SC bonus or the 4p T3 bonus, something in that veign) and then rework the set bonuses which would be easier
mtiliate should be changed back to work with any weps and i want Mace Stun spec back
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u/Lacrimorta 13h ago
Devs--Skyborne priests for both factions please.
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u/Orpheus_148 12h ago
The lack of this combo was(is) really weird to me. I’ve always imagined Priests and Warriors to be the classes that every race would have access to.
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u/FenrewKaiser 9h ago
And can they get warlocks too pls, alliance didn’t get a new choice for that class
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u/MCSplinter 13h ago
This just in.
Mages: One new spell for all specs that instantly kills your target for 1% mana and also kills the player IRL in PvP. All Mages get a sick ass Mana Tiger mount at level 20 and some baller sunglasses to shame anyone who plays other classes.
Shamans: Chain Lightning replaced with Thunderstorm which deals 0 damage but has nice sound effects so you can hype up Mages.
DPS talents replaced with threat talents but no actual tanking talents or abilities so Shamans can get the Paladin experience of weakening all specs to make a meme spec work because HYBRID.
Paladins: Twist of Light now works for up to three attacks but Seals cost 150% more mana. Holy Shield removed and replaced with Avenger’s Shield but it only hits one target and generates no threat. Holy Light and Flash of Light removed because Holy Shock no longer has a cooldown and is now the only heal Paladins need.
Hunters: All pet abilities now stack up to 5 times and prevent the use of similar class abilities. Minimum range is now 5 yards. Hunters get 50 stable slots.
Warriors: Reduced the cooldown of all CDs by an additional 50%. Defensive cooldowns now lasts twice as long if there’s a Protection Paladin in the party or raid to remind them that they’re inferior.
Druids: Shifting out of Cat form puts a 10 sec cooldown on all forms to ensure that power shifting is permanently dead. Balance druids now get a new spell called Moonbeam which does 0 damage but has cool lighting effects so they can also hype up Mages. Innervate cooldown is now reduced to 5 seconds as long as the target is a Mage. Bears are locked into a /dance for 1 minute whenever a Protection Warrior /flexes at them.
Warlocks: Demons now ask you why you’re not playing Mage every 5 seconds. Soul Shards take up two bag slots per shard.
Priests: Shadow Priests now also gives mana along with health from Vampiric Embrace but only if there are no stinky Shamans or Paladins in the party. Penance nerfed by 33%. Prayer of Protection is a new spell for Holy priests that is cast in 1 second and heals for an amount equivalent to the removed Flash of Light from Paladins.
Rogue: The
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u/DangerousBee4116 12h ago
I'm dead. And the rogue one is so dead on that I'm fking cackling and crying at the same time 💀
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u/T3HJ4N170R 8h ago
I felt a great disturbance in the force, as if millions of monkeys paws twitched, and suddenly curled.
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u/kabaliscutinu 13h ago
The only hope I have is that people won’t play rogue thinking it’s trash and I can play my class alone in raid peacefully.
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u/-1703- 13h ago
as a primarily mage player across all iterations of wow from 2019, to hc, to retail and SOM/SOD...id rather have the rogue treatment than whatever the fuck they've done to my class in Forever while people that dont really even play the class incoherently cheer and sneer at the changes.
at least it'd still be the familiar and comfy class i always loved instead of whatever the fuck mage is now.
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u/toptom4321 14h ago
Holding out on the hopium for holy paladin
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u/Jobe1110 14h ago
I don't think any of the paladin specs is compelling to play at the moment. Holy is arguably worse than in vanilla, prot has no buttons to press and ret has a capstone talent that is disliked by most people. The only build that people seem to be happy about is shockadin. I was excited to roll undead paladin, but for launch I'll probably level something else until the class is fleshed out.
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u/Hopeful-Dark-4558 13h ago
It's okay. They've made it that way for now because otherwise there would be 70% undead paladins and 30% all other class/races. They just need for that hype to blow over.
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u/AffectionateSky3662 4h ago
Yeah, funny enough I normally love Ret pala even in classic as crazy as that sounds but I was never a fan of Seal Twisting.. I just find the whole idea of it stupid. Even flavor wise I think it sucks..
Now they made it the capstone retri talent which basically killed all my lust I had to paly one in forever.
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u/patchesoj 12h ago
I played rogue a bit on the beta. Whenever I party up with people and they know what they’re doing as a rogue it always looks great. When I play I rogue everything is so clunky and slow.
Just practice I suppose.
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u/notverysmawt 11h ago
100 slice and dice uptime is the separator. Position yourself so you will constantly be hitting something. Add a /startattack macro to your sinister strike so even with 0 energy if you press the button you’ll start attacking.
Rogue is honestly easy. Don’t waste a single combo point
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u/TheKrayTabbies 13h ago
Why do people act like once the beta is over and the game release they're never gonna change anything ever again?
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u/Puzzle_Bird 11h ago
Because when the game launches people pick their mains, and suddenly alot of time investment is riding on the devs fixing problems they've not even acknowledged for weeks
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u/Tavron 12h ago
Because for some classes/specs it's the entire design that's the issue cough ele cough.
That likely won't be changed in a small patch and would only happen in an "expansion/big patch". Which means there is a big risk that ele shamans can look forward to play a very sad state of their spec for months to come. With the leveling times as they are in classic, a lot are likely to just reroll instead, because it's just not fun.
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u/coconutszz 3h ago
Considering most of the complaints around rogues are about low apm and unengaging gameplay, it doesn't really make sense to pick a class that you don't find fun in the hope that they will be reworked after release.
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u/Fine-Accountant-1917 11h ago
A lot of Classic players aren’t used to actual balance tuning since they’re playing old patches that are already locked in.
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u/EricssonHotline 11h ago
Yeah the tier 2 setitems before patch 1.9 didn't even have spelldamage back in the day. Classic players really had easy mode compared to the people that played at release back in the day.
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u/Paintballreturns 13h ago
Rogues have gotten zero changes during beta. What makes you think they give enough of a shit to fix any of the myriad of issues that have been there since start?
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u/WhiskeyJack33 11h ago
the no racial changes post launch is the only one i worry about. Ally racials are almost all better across the board atm. Skyborn probably need to be tapped down to 2% haste and the mana Regen racial on ally needs to be fundamentally changed because it is literally gamebreaking combined with combat mana regen talents. The horde skyborne run speed racial is worthless and does literally nothing (2% move speed over boot enchants sometimes is laughable.)
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u/ChaseBankDankBank 8h ago
I remember trying to explain to people how op the mana regen racial was and I got ignored. It’s stupidly good.
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u/Key_Lock_304 4h ago
3% haste is ok because its vastly inferior to crit, unless they remove the crit racials that is.
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u/SubsidizedDemand 39m ago
You're literally gimping yourself in both PvE and PvP if you're going Horde. It's really sad how insanely one sided racials are.
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u/DankAF1994 11h ago
Pretty much this. A lot of people base their race choices at least partly on racials, it'll be absolutely shit to have changes post launch to affect those choices.
Blizzard has a matter of days to tune racials to at least somewhat reduce the backlash.
Class changes are a natural part of wows development and people know to expect them, across the 2 decades of retail there's been one overhaul of racials but otherwise extremely minimal changes to them
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u/Various_Necessary_45 1h ago
Because they won't be doing class balance/overhauls as often once the game launches because they don't want to invalidate time investments.
I'm hoping for Shaman tank for example, but I won't play Shaman if they don't get some support. That kind of change won't happen once the game has launched.
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14h ago edited 14h ago
[deleted]
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u/Wild-Open 13h ago
Not about balance it's about gameplay. Rogue is boring af rn. Plays the same as classic with glacial apm. You can't solve that by tuning numbers, we need new abilities.
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u/Spleenseer 13h ago
Someone clarified that the plan is to not touch racials after launch, but they absolutely will make adjustments if it becomes necessary.
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u/0DayMaker 13h ago
Log out some place memorable.
In the classic beta I logged off Carebearz for the final time sitting in a chair in the Thunderbrew Inn. After fighting the GMs who spawned raid bosses in stormwind. We all got lvl 1 usable thunderfurys.
Anyways it made it made that spot in the game feel really special. RP wise it's like my characters adventure ended there. Maybe he's a bartender now.
Shout out to any Alpha Beta Fish still kicking around in here!
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u/AeratedFeces 13h ago
I logged out in Crossroads for the last time a couple days ago. This is my first delve into anything classic related since it was current content and I Crossroads is without question the most nostalgic town for me.
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u/shruffles 8h ago
Do people really expect there to be NO MORE tuning ever once game go’s live? I thought it was super obvious that wow forever would get similar update cycle as retail, meaning frequent class tuning updates
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u/Higgoms 8h ago
I do expect tuning, but rogues on retail are also notoriously abandoned. So I think a lot of people are connecting the dots a bit (right or wrong) and deciding this just means rogues are the red headed stepchild
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u/Helivon 4h ago
Why would they go out of there way to say the intention is for rogues to do the most single target dps in the game?
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u/tregnoc 15m ago
Rogues aren't upset about DPS. that can be fixed easily. it's a rotational and gameplay problem. Our white hits do too much dmg so they couldn't give us cool abilities (according to them). But they also said they would be giving us deathmark for sub and then there have been 2 patches since then with no major rogue changes
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u/Agent101g 5h ago
Dude correct me if I'm wrong but didn't they repeatedly tell us rogues that they were gonna replace thousand cuts with deathmark and it never happened?
Are they really going to wait until post launch to make such a huge change?
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u/InevitableTea1716 1h ago
Post launch? You know there are changes that are can happen just before launch right?
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u/WhiskeyJack33 11h ago
Alliance skyborne racial needs a change, or other racials need to be re-buffed to compensate. Racial innervate combined with haste is not okay.
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u/DangerousBee4116 14h ago
It's indeed looking rough for us.
And I'm incredibly confused over many of the desicions Blizz made for rogues in Forever. For one, why are they trying to make our pvp tree (sub) more PVE oriented? Like anybody has ever gone deep sub as their PVE spec, and even now sub still does pretty shitty on the dps sims.
We don't need 3 dedicated PVE trees, just give us shadowstep already.
Yeye, downvotes, blabla.
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u/Trappramlaren 14h ago
It's good they're trying to make every spec viable. It's just weird that the PvE aspects of Sub goes against its PvP identity. But they said they're not happy how it turned out, for example they talked about a new capstone coming. I'm on hopium, but I hope Blizzard is cooking up something good for us.
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u/DangerousBee4116 13h ago edited 13h ago
Yeah, the capstone we did get is the most backwards shit I've ever seen. Take a tree that heavily relies on control via stuns and incapacitation and make the capstone rely on dots from our bleeds to work?
Make it make sense..
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u/crayonflop3 13h ago
They should have cloak of shadows as subtlety 30 point talent instead of whatever weird thing they have cooking
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u/AccomplishedLead5225 14h ago
They are closing the beta (single, NA, beta servers) and then opening the correct regional server infrastructure for the stress test (EU, NA, etc).
I'm guessing there will be a full character wipe between Beta and Stress Test.
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u/spookydooks 14h ago
This post is about the full closure day of the beta on Friday.
Edit: and it's already been confirmed the stress test will be wiped. It's on the Live servers.
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u/toastie_22 12h ago
Wonder why they extended, kind of sucks though cause I deleted my char and gave away all my gold 😂
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u/lareon12many 11h ago
More DEV/QA testing on the changes they are making! Example: mobs now social aggro when pulled and no longer reset if not attacked. I’m positive there will be other changes that require testing!!
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u/wanglouis 14h ago
Shadowstep pls
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u/Rolf69 13h ago
God no, we don’t need teleport-y retail moves and yes, I know it was introduced in TBC
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u/wanglouis 13h ago
Then at least give us Cloak back…
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u/notverysmawt 11h ago
Rogue feels so unfun without cloak. Damn 1 magic dot? I guess I’ll never stealth again and probably just die
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u/ctrlaltcreate 5h ago
Nah, it was only extended because the stress test had to be delayed. I'd be surprised if there was another patch before it ends.
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u/Key_Lock_304 4h ago
post launch it usually takes 1 or 2months minimum for class changes and thats a LONG TIME, there was barely anything this beta either that lasted approx 1month, they are understaffed for classes its pretty clear, it might take them a whole year or 2 before they figure things out at this rate
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u/LessAwareness5286 3h ago
I'd love to see faction racials tiered and unlockable via faction quests. For example, unlocking WOTF through a series of undercity quests if I am an orc.
Ex:
TIER 1: Wotf - warstomp - hardiness - berserking
Tier 2: cannibalize - rapid regen
Etc.
With these tiers we can allow players to create racial “specs” by using 1 racial per tier create a custom racial loadout. That way people can play the race they like best and can still min/max if they like.
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u/KidoriTiger 1h ago
Sorry man, this is a small indie company we're dealing with. They'll fix those rogue talents as soon as they can, just give them a couple months after launch
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u/venguards 3m ago
Paladin changes: Conc now hits 2 targets 1 take 50% less then the other at random
Removed Holy Strike and replaced it with wishes
Changed Holy Shield cap stone to Break Shield , blocking an attack breaks your gear
Removed The Holy tree and replaced it with thoughts and prayers
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u/Seraphayel 13h ago
Hoping for one more patch that breaks balance so everybody can continue whining
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u/Cloud4347 13h ago
Pala OP please, let the haters hate. Btw never played pala, but i am waiting. xD
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u/Shablagoosh 11h ago
They should have wiped the beta at least once to get a second set of leveling data with the revamped gear rewards from blue to green and the multiple dungeon quest changes. I feel like the duel tournament kind of fucked it and forced them to not wipe for the sake of it.
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u/TopMasterpiece7817 11h ago
Rogues are being handled by the Blizzard brainpower dedicated to racials and dungeon exp (that brainpower almost certainly does not exist).
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u/Domethegoon 10h ago
I watched a podcast where the Blizz devs said they are changing the sub capstone talent to something similar to a Zed ultimate from League of Legends. Seeing that this hasn’t already been done, it’s safe to assume they will do it via another patch in the beta or after launch.
The TLDR of this is that there absolutely will be significant class changes before launch but more likely after launch considering we are only 14 days out.
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u/DissKhorse 9h ago
Future patch notes: Rogue 1/1 we found a bug slightly increasing and removed it.
Other class: we reworked it to be more fun 20/20 changes.
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u/Correct_Dragonfly_62 9h ago
They work at least a week ahead, there will be a patch this week to display changes they have already made
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u/Hobbs512 8h ago
My hope is they update rogue a week or two after launch so I won't have to compete with all you guys for two rogue raid spots.
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u/Johol 8h ago
It ended though? I have to download an entire new client to play the stress test
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u/sphynxzyz 6h ago
stress test is on the regional production servers. You need a new client to direct the traffic correctly. They'll turn the beta back on after the stress.
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u/Great-Skin-797 7h ago
Rogues pickpocket ability now tickles the enemy causing them to do %5 less damage for a minute.
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u/OldRdtCoinnoseur 7h ago
Hell, just leave rogue alone. That means reverting the talent that removes consumables from vanish and poisons (why remove rpg aspects? who asked for this?)
And lastly, remove the talent that gives everyone free stealth detection.
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u/Ok_Occasion1570 14h ago
Devs hear me out. Dwarves 25% increased run speed when you run bare feet by unequipping boots