"I'm excited to enjoy the journey of questing in Forever, but how can I do that if I have the option of leveling in dungeons? Even if it's only 75% as fast as questing, it's all I will do! It can't be allowed!"
I could see a plausible argument from the Dev side along the lines of: “Players are already gaining access to the best gear for their levels inside dungeons, much better than quest gear. We feel there should be some trade-off, given this advantage.”
I could buy that argument…20 years ago. But why now? Again, it just feels today like it’s coming from a place of, “We know people are gonna start getting bored once they max out their chars, how can we keep them around longer?”
Do you think dungeon leveling because the optimal way to play to progress (as it was in classic) is good for the game? Geniunely. These players don't exist in the world except for the fractions of time they spend in travel or popping in and out of the instance until they are 60. It's not a social thing at all.
I’ve never thought about dungeons in terms of leveling. It’s always been about a) practicing tanking for raids b) socializing with the guild, teaching newer players about mechanics and then c) completing quests/achievements. I never really cared much about the lower tabard rewards for city rep grinding 🤷♂️ But I understand why some might. I just never knew it was a thing before now.
the idea of needing people in the world died with sharding, you will always see as many as blizz wants you to, those dungeon people arnt in your world now, they are in another shard you will not interact with
how hard is it to accept that people would like to play in more way than one? perhaps 1 char for solo leveling, 1 with the boys etc. why limit people to a singular path?
Its a insanely tiny amount of XP. You get more XP killing green mobs than you do dungeons elites. Its objectively a bad change anybody defending it just wants to ruin others fun.
Lower XP per kill doesn’t settle the balance of a private, resettable dungeon with loot, gold, and materials. “Anyone who disagrees wants to ruin my fun” isn’t an argument.
Gold? Have you ever tried solo mob farming? Have you ever tried splitting dungeon loot between 5 people? Solo farming in open world is much more profitable lmao
Open world is like 10x more profitable if not more. Also its better exp too. Open world was always the optimal way, except if you need to compete for tags too much.
There's 1 thing dungeons have over the open world, its mob density and u can reset it back to full at any time, but this is about xp nerfs so we are using earning gold while leveling as our crutch that the op stated its better for gold while leveling with a 5 man vs open world farming, and no the hell it is not lmao
Cool we ran DM three times, didn't get the loot I wanted, it took 4 hours, and now my other friends are 5 levels ahead of me because they just quested instead and got just as good gear from quest rewards. Super fun, I'll definitely do it again and won't just solo quest to 60 now
My preferred route gives almost no xp, to the point of it being an active detriment to my and anyone else who used to like dungeons, enjoyment of the game
Honestly if they nerfed questing xp to make sure you did all quests plus the 1000 new ones to reach max level, I would agree with that too. The devs built this new world. They want us to see it.
And you think most players would be okay with this?
I mean if they want us to see it, why do you think they havent already nerfed quest xp?
Could it be because if leveing takes too long most players will leave?
>Not that hard
I would expect seeing other peoples PoV on this wouldnt be that hard either but here we are.
This forcing people to do specific things because the devs say so is one of the worst parts of retail. It’s also antithetical to old school mmo design and just doesn’t make sense to me why people are simping for this
Try "my prefered way to play with my friends and randoms now gives such bad rewards in terms of xp that it feels terrible to do" as a leveling option with friends. IF the dungeon xp was a 25% nerf as the top post claims, that would be livable at least. But it's considerably worse than that. The "my preferred route gives less xp" is very disingenuous at this point. Even after the minor buff it got it is absolutely abysmal for reruns. Also, world has always been faster. Every world record for leveling is from world leveling. This does nothing to change that. But sure, everyone enjoy running around in the open world being anti social. It may not matter for you, but for some of us this killed the hype for the game. People like different playstyles, who would have thought
Apparently you don't at all. You're projecting with the level ranges there. Try RFC - DM/WC - SFK/Stockades - RFK - BFD - Gnomeregan - SM GY- SM LIB, Armory, Cath, - RFD - Uldaman - ZF - Maraudon - ST - BRD - LBRS/DM depending on levels. Spamming one dungeon all the way is exactly what makes dungeon leveling unfun, doubly so if there is no xp to be had from it either. Especially when you spend time to get groups together. For casual players dungeons have never been the most effective or fastest way to level. So I think it's pretty absurd to work against there being more viable ways to level. It literally doesn't harm you in any way.
Blizz claims they want a more social experience and encourage people to play together, at the same time they neuter the most social aspect in WoW. It's beyond stupid. But I guess you're just rage baiting, so I'll stop here for now.
Dude, the nerf to xp massive, but sure let’s keep it this way. I’ll hard res all the drops for me and anyone I know and you know what? You’ll still run it cause you need that xp. Win win for me and makes the game even more toxic than it already is.
Clearly no one needs the xp cuz it's so little. We might need the quest xp, but rez what you want. Keep your full bis deadmines loot at level 25 while I'm level 60
First time runs with quests are absolutely worth the time :D I’m a tank and I build groups so tough luck! I’ll get the best gear, faster xp, and that better gear will make me level faster than you.
you can absolutely still 5 man group quest, which is the only viable path left, all others are nerfed. perhaps grinding in hyperspawn areas will be better tho. my point is that, blizzard was handed, basically 3 near perfectly balanced ways to level, and decided to nerf 2 of them to enforce their playstyle. and if you mean dungeon grinding gives "less xp" we are talking by a factor of 4, a good dungeon cleave from 15-60 will have you easily at 14+ days /played to hit 60, where my usual questing time on HC is around 4 days /played, basically if you intend on actually playing the full game, there is truely only one route. and that is questing.
It's not perfectly balanced when 1 of those 3 ways has infinitely better loot, no friction or interruptions from other players of either faction, zero travel time on foot, zero time dealing with roaming elites, completely predictable, uncontested mobs that are infinitely resettable versus the other two methods. Those aspects are always left out of your argument. It's like xp was the only reason to run a dungeon.
That's why the people who defend this are frustrated. Is it less xp? Sure. But there are so many advantages of being in dungeons that people just ignore.
they are, but 'dungeons with the boys' are not the same as degenspamming AOE dungeon comps, which dungeon xp is currently balanced around. People would be super happy with 75% of the XP you could get from questing from dungoens, but that just isn't reality for normal people. XP rates from a single relaxed playstyle dungeon run are 5x+ worse than casual questing in scenarios i've tested with wailing caverns vs barrens questing, bfd vs ashenvale questing, and deadmines vs westfall/redridge questing.
The thing I dont get from blizz is they already nerfed degen AOE spam with the mage nerfs. This xp changes just makes everyone less likely to run normal dungeons more than once...which is apparently not a social activity anymore according to some people around here.
It’s exhausting having to explain to an adult that a slower experience isn’t keeping you from doing it. You can still run dungeons with your buds, you just can’t level 6 times in one dungeon. You can’t level 30 times in 4 hours spamming Cath, and that is ok. The game will be fun still, and be fine. You all make it sound like you aren’t allowed to run dungeons anymore simply because you can’t spam them for levels. It really isn’t a big deal, and if it is to you, don’t play.
You don't have to do anything. You choose to do it just like you choose to see other people enjoying the game differently as oppositional.
You only care about what you want and how you want it. Hell, I don't even want to spam dungeons but I don't have to have my playstyle forced on others.
At least you get to explain to adults, explaining to you is like dealing with children.
Just a fundamental misunderstanding of the game and the problem.
70% of xp to 60 comes from killing mobs , why do you give a fuck if I’m doing it in a dungeon or in the open world?
You realize now that the actual fastest way to 60 is to get a 5 man group and kill hyperspawns in caves in the open world now ? Basically the exact same thing as dungeon spamming except it’s in the open world and will grief other players who want to finish quests
At level 30, 1 dungeon run now gets you 3 bars that’s roughly for 1 hour of dungeon grinding vs getting a full level if you quest for 1 hour. You could spend 4 hours running SFK on repeat and you’d get 1 lv vs 3-4 lvs in the open world.
It’s a waste of time to do low level dungeons. Even the gear you out level so fast that the time you spent getting it isn’t even worth it.
Not to mention dungeons like SFK are entirely pointless for alliance as there are no quests. You are going to run all the way to silver pine , find a group and spend 1-1.5 hours to get 3 bars of xp? Even if you are insane enough to do this good luck finding a group of other people willing to do that.
If you’re grouped and killing hyper spawns, and you notice someone questing and your group tags and kills everything saying “Oh well, this is what’s fastest now, blame blizzard for us griefing.” You are a problem, not the game design or mechanics. That’s a social issue.
these people just want to buy boosts down the line. they dgaf about anything but end game and trying to see how well they can parse while they drool over their 2 button rotations
That's what gets me. They're the same ones advocating to take it slow and enjoy the journey, not worrying if they fall behind. Then why do they care one bit if someone levels faster than them?
you wanna know why? wow players live with the biggest FOMO in the entire universe. even if they say they can take 3 months to get to 60 and dont mind it, they'll feel that FOMO deep in their veins.
FOMO is a good way to describe me, for sure. I was the exact player you describe before I left after Cataclysm. Pretty much all I did was tank dungeons all the way to 85. The precise reason I came back to MoP Classic was because I know I missed out on so much content.
The whole reason we have this heated dungeon xp topic is FOMO. People want others to be slow because they don't want to feel left behind even tho they claim they want to take it slow themselves. Yesterday I disclosed the open world grinding method which is way faster than any leveling method currently and not 10 minutes later, there were already 2 posts on blizzard forums calling blizzard to nerf this method. It's all down to FOMO. And not gonna lie, it's in all of us, just in different shapes.
Dungeon spam in classic was NEVER the meta and anyone who insists it is I swear to God did not play the game at a level high enough to know wtf was going on
Then they nerfed the Dungeon Quest exp. Then they nerfed mob exp again.
Their final correction was a 3% overall increase in mob exp.
"If the players in parties are playing optimally, it will ALMOST keep up with questing...". That was basically the quote from the devs.
Except, this ignores travel time to dungeons. This ignores how the exp changes affect player behavior and tendencies. This ignores the fact that most players will NOT be playing optimally.
They screwed the pooch. Once the game releases, the general conversation will severely skew towards what I am saying.
People who disagree either lack in foresight or prior experience.
You have no idea how leveling in classic worked, the fastest people to 60 have always quested or farmed mobs in a group in the world because hyperspawn farming is faster than running back to the entrance every run to reset, and questing on average gives better xp/hr compared to organically forming dungeon groups.
Nerfing dungeon exp does not change the meta that classic has had forever. This is just another classic example of blizzard balancing around the 1% of players who did cleave groups with coordinated groups and punishing the 99% of people that didn't.
People just keep parroting that "dungeon spam was meta" bullshit and I don't know why.
Maybe they played TBC and thought that it was the same for classic? Even though I swear in TBC it was only faster with specific group comps and was only done to get to honored. Then when you got no more rep for normal you moved on to questing instead to maximize said reputation.
Or maybe they're thinking it's like retail, where you can queue into timewalking with 70k bonus exp for every dungeon completion and level from 1-max in like 2 days.
These people dont play the game or just have absolutely no idea what's actually going on. Ive had someone cite wrath dungeon boosting as a reason. Nevermind that it's a completely different game, they weren't even aware boosting has been nerfed in forever.
Yeah, except that focusing on unoptimized dungeon groups means we get to also focus on unoptimized overworld levelers. Do you know how slow your average quester levels? Do you think that they are slower than your average dungeon spammer?
And wait, hold on, I can’t hear you over everybody relying primarily on dungeons to level in retail and the significant RMT driver that was dungeon spam runs in classic.
>Yeah, except that focusing on unoptimized dungeon groups means we get to also focus on unoptimized overworld levelers.
Except these dungeon nerfs as per Blizzard were made due to comparing optimal dungeon cleave in the optimal dungeon vs optimal questing route which you can get from an addon and do all by yourself.
Oh well, Im not surprised you didnt know this.
> Do you think that they are slower than your average dungeon spammer?
No, infact if you follow the arrow over your head you would be much faster.
>I can’t hear you over everybody relying primarily on dungeons to level in retail
1. This is classic not retail, leveling is so different it's stupid to compare.
2. People do it out of convenience, not because it's fastest since leveling is already so fast. Not the argument you thought it was.
>RMT driver that was dungeon spam runs in classic.
This could be easily fixed by having boost runs give no xp due to the level difference between players.
Besides it will still be RMT boost runs, except now its just boosters only doing quests. Nothing changed.
Am unoptimized overworld leveler is extremely fast compared to unoptimized dungeon groups, what the actual fuck are you talking about? You’re killing similar or lower leveled mobs and clicking on collectibles, unless you’re actively not playing the game it’s fast
The significant RMT driver is raiding and consumables, and the changes don’t even affect people paying for boosts lol, you realize they can do the same exact thing in the open world, right?
There's nothing to doubt lol. Meta xp/hr with a high level booster or with an extremely well prepared premade group. For 95% of people solo quest blitz and overworld grinding has been the meta.
The best xp/hr made in dungeons was by boosting or having a special comp like a group of mages who grind certain packs within the dungeons. Both of these issues are already solved so this nerf hit straight the regular players who just enjoy runnig dungeons because they find group activities more fun than solo play or players who enjoy play roles like healers or tanks and who cant really perform these roles when playing solo.
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u/Agent101g 7h ago
Also, you can still run outside world xp if Dungeon XP is reverted to normal.