r/classicwow • u/DepthChorge • 8d ago

Forever Beta Feedback To all the Warlocks asking for stackable soulshards

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You should know that this talent makes it so mages don't need reagents to make portals but does nothing for you. You'll still need to farm soulshards for summons. 😆

2.6k Upvotes

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97

u/Few-Fly-3766 8d ago

It's hilarious to me that Warlock will be likely the least popular class in the game while

  • Being extremely in demand in raids for a dps class. Any raid wants two too keep up curses
  • Being the strongest duellinh 1v1 pvp class by far. Not without reason they had to ban a Warlock specc from the Hardcore duellinh tournament
  • Being both incredible at solo levelling and S tier for duo-levelling, if alongside a healer
  • Being a scaling class that really feels gear upgrades

People really just hate all the friction and lack of mobility that they sign up for when they roll the class, I guess

24

u/Khaosfury 8d ago

Honestly this is the main reason I'm rolling a warlock in Forever, I love being the utility class so it's either this or Paladin. Cheaper mounts are a bonus, but Warlock specifically feels like it'll be one of those sleeper classes that feel goated for those in the know and awful for everyone else.

That, or I'm pre-emptively coping extremely hard for why I'm rolling yet another Warrior and tanking my way to cap.

6

u/AnxiousStrummer 8d ago

I’m rolling Warrior and Warlock. Definitely my first two classes. Don’t know which one first.

1

u/PristineHurry688 8d ago

Mines warlock and Druid

1

u/nlk_ 7d ago

I'm pretty settled on Paladin, as it was my main class back in vanilla. But now that you mentioned the mount, I'm also kind of tempted to go Warlock too just for the epic mount, the quests are really dope and unique to the classes.

1

u/El_Frencho 7d ago

Just a note (am going to play one as well) - mounts aren’t going to be cheaper, cos they’ve done the whole riding training route.
I hope they don’t get rid of the 60 mount questline, but if they leave it as is and we also have to get riding, it’s gonna be expensive as hell to get the horn boy!

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14

u/SevenStarSword 8d ago

Can the blueberry actually hold aggro now? I haven't tried a Warlock on beta.

16

u/Sir_Tahmas_Frahgman 8d ago

Yes. Demons scale with your stats and the blueberry holds aggro a lot better than it did in classic. If you are just dot/wanding you don't really have ti pay attention to your aggro on it anymore unless you crit a bunch.

8

u/MattJHarris 8d ago

Yep. Send in the Voidwalker. Dot, Dot, Dot. Wand. Repeat as necessary.

3

u/SevenStarSword 8d ago

So then does spell damage increase the void walkers attack damage or is it considered physical?

7

u/Sir_Tahmas_Frahgman 8d ago

Yep, your spell damage effects whatever your pets main attack style is. So the imo gets spell damage and the bueberry/succubitch get atk pwr

4

u/SevenStarSword 8d ago

I'll have to give it a test for myself. My druid is BIS and just world PVP's, I got some time to get to 10 and test the blueberry out.

3

u/SuddenBag 7d ago

Do you need some of the Demonology talents for the VW to properly hold aggro or is it now fine for Affliction and Destruction too?

3

u/stocxy001 7d ago

It’ll hold aggro better now as a baseline but the demo talents help a lot. Especially the searing pain talent that increases their damage against targets for the next x hits of your pet. Apparently. I’m gonna try it out.

2

u/Playbow2024 8d ago

Yes, you can’t full blast with shadow bolts and shit, but you can put up dots and wand, no problem at all

2

u/Historical_Bobcat295 8d ago

I think it'd be hilariously awesome if both demonology and BM became offtank specs in Forever raids

3

u/TheAzarak 8d ago

Sure as hell doesn't for me. I even tried waiting a bit, but I always pulled aggro when the mob was half hp or so just from dots alone. Shadowbox insta ripped threat. Aoe don't even bother trying lol. I just started using succubus because the damage is much higher

3

u/SevenStarSword 8d ago

I feared it's pretty much the same as in Classic

Boring drain tanking leveling.

3

u/Whynotarsenal 7d ago

Don’t think I used drain once leveling to 30. Per can hold 2-3 mobs easily if you can micro a tiny bit, rolling 3 dots on enemies. Warlock is ez mode

1

u/JherriCurling 8d ago

I leveled as Demo with my succubus since pet health scales with your stamina and it felt great

1

u/Emergency-Gear4200 8d ago

I think demo is perfectly viable, but once you get to DS the talents feel like they don’t really help for leveling as much.

Once you can DS and keep a pet out I wonder how it feels though.

Unfortunately early on I feel like putting 5 points for instant corruptions is just what you wanna do and at that point why not drain tank? Which btw is better than ever.

1

u/SevenStarSword 8d ago

Yeah but I'm burned out from drain tanking leveling since that's the only way to level in classic.

1

u/zaibuf 7d ago

From what I've seen from beta demo is slightly better in terms of sustain.

1

u/ForTheChillz 7d ago

Boring? Maybe the first 20 levels ... and even then not big of a deal. But later on it really becomes amazing. You basically clear a whole area without stopping by fighting 2-3 mobs (or more) at the same time ... You are in full control of the pace. I don't know how this is boring compared to running from mob to mob and killing them individually like you do with most other classes?

4

u/InfamousCRS 8d ago

It’s alright but it’s tanky as fuck, but the succubus does so much damage it’s probably better to use it when you unlock it

1

u/SorrenXiri 8d ago

As affliction it sure doesn’t I pull off of it constantly

1

u/blandonThrow 8d ago

Yeah even in Destro spec with strong nukes and instas popping he held aggro. Only Searing Pain spam would draw aggro but that is explicitly high threat

1

u/BelRoi- 8d ago

even Succubus can hold aggro now. At least for one mob.

1

u/ogzogz 8d ago

Using demo spec with 3 points in voidwalker, yes.

Can pull and get it to tank three mobs at the same time

1

u/Disastrous_Button383 7d ago

It does on 1 mob it's still useless for multiple mobs. The old fear one tank one have void tank a third works well and makes it so you can deal with 3 without too much trouble

1

u/LoudState5218 6d ago

you can talent to increase his threat by 30% while also talenting to reduce your threat by 20%. good luck pulling threat off him with that setup, even in a multidotting situation if you let him attack each mob with his taunt once

1

u/SevenStarSword 6d ago

I mean in classic wow that talent was useless and it was very easy to pull threat off so unless they changed something for forever I don't know.

0

u/thellasemi12 8d ago

The blueberry's taunt is aoe by default iirc now but I don't have the beta bought. It also converts your SP into AP

2

u/-M-Word 7d ago

No way they made Torment AoE

3

u/kindredfan 7d ago

They did not.  So much misinformation in this thread lmao

1

u/Whynotarsenal 7d ago

Suffering is aoe. Maybe he got it confused.

1

u/Equal-Bread4480 7d ago

It's not aoe, but it's incredibly strong now

0

u/Bernard_t 7d ago

You do not play with the voidwalker when you level up, you go with the imp or the succubus and kite the mobs in a triangle pattern.

13

u/PrinceVorrel 8d ago

I am going hard on Alliance Warlock stocks for my main. Gonna be basically zero competition for set gear from the few dozen of us running around...

3

u/Neither-Juice3504 7d ago

Wouldn't mage and priest which are omega popular would compete?

1

u/PrestigiousMolasses3 7d ago

Yes especially mage.

1

u/Korotan 7d ago

Same. Started Augst 2007 with Human Warlock. Going this time again as one

1

u/masterbroder 2d ago

Im really conflicted, always loved warlock but i dont wanna deal with old soulshards :/

10

u/TrumpsCummyOnahole 8d ago

Yep, goes to show what's strong isn't necessarily what's fun. Warlock having no movement options and the bland soulshard system that destroys your backpack ontop of other issues like being spammed for summons and healthstones make it really unappealing

2

u/NuckFuggettt 7d ago

I feel like movement is so minuscule though in terms of “fun” most classes when leveling or open world at level 60 seem to just follow a procedure over and over. Mage pull everything, frost nova, blink, blizzard. If you mess up reset. Hunter has their rotation probably arcane auto auto arcane. Paladin seal + bonk + seal + bonk.

Warlocks your managing your mana, health, pet health, and when you get something unexpected you don’t just reset you can fear, use a curse, fear juggle, like I feel warlocks utilize a lot more of their buttons when playing and just seems like I’m more engaged and doing more instead of just memorizing press 1 2 3 4.

Now raids are another story…. But those are once a week

1

u/ForTheChillz 7d ago

Also if you play on a PvP server, you are still well equipped to deal with a random PvP encounter even while you are fighting a mob already.

9

u/littenthehuraira 8d ago

Soul shards are the main reason why I've never liked playing warlock. Somehow I'd like them more if it was a stackable buff instead of somethibg that goes in your bags. That, and proper pet management is too much for my zug zug brain.

14

u/SevenStarSword 8d ago

Soul Shards and if you're are PVP when coming out of the GY you might have to summon your pet and self buff, make a health stone and then you have to drink to regain all the mana you lost. 5 mins later you can go into battle again for 2 mins to get ganked by 3 rogues and do it all again for 5 mins.

9

u/myfriend92 8d ago

Spend 1 point into the legacy system that makes all non-combat spells cost no mana or reagents after ressing.

3

u/Whorlybird 8d ago

Thanks for making me think about that talent. And can pick it up easily for a single point. Not bad.

1

u/ForTheChillz 7d ago

But in turn you completely wreck through the battleground ... so spending that extra minute for my prep is a "sacrifice" I am willing to take.

3

u/tangin 8d ago

The fact that it’s the only way you can summon people is reason enough.

3

u/rawr_bomb 8d ago

It's always been one of the least popular. Even in MoP this last phase, considering how facerollingly powerful Affliction is on some fights you barely see more than 1 or 2 in a 25man.

7

u/[deleted] 8d ago

[deleted]

1

u/orus_heretic 8d ago

Yep, even when they're incredibly strong in TBC and Wrath.

4

u/JaegerJaquez25 8d ago

They are the most played class in tbc though

1

u/Expert_Royal705 7d ago

Do you mean "classic" tbc? Because people meta gamed the hell out of the rereleases, lots of people who didn't play for their class fantasy or their "main" but just whatever did the most damage.

2

u/Mapag 8d ago

Warlock is definitly one of my fav!! But it always come after whirlwing adrenaline rush warrior!

As always, will start with warrior, then warlock, then hunter xD

2

u/DoomyHowlinkun 8d ago

Eh personally, I always love warlock, regardless of game version. I would likely roll one this time too if undead paladin hadn't been added.

2

u/blandonThrow 8d ago

I kept hearing Warlock was awesome after the sad shell of a spec Shadow Priest is now and wow... Destro Warlock is amazing. I can't believe it's such a low played class

2

u/alextrue27 8d ago

I'm rocking a warlock this time around because of how bad they did Shadow priest affliction though instead of destruction

3

u/blandonThrow 8d ago

I feel like a lot of Spriests should check it out instead of huffing the copium. If I wasn't maining Shaman it'd be Warlock 100%

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2

u/sonofbaal_tbc 8d ago

What are you talking about banned from dueling? the mok gorah?

3

u/Skormes 7d ago

Warlock is one of the two classes I've never tried. Not because it's not good or because of the Soul Shards (okay, maybe a little). It's just not what I'm looking for in a class. If I want a pet, I rather play Hunter. And if I wanna cast spells, I rather play Mage. Warlock just isn't appealing to me.

But in case Forever really hooks me up again for long, I'm planing to play one down the road.

(The other class I've never played is Shaman btw. I was never a big fan of the totems. But I want to finally try one out in Forever as well. Beeing a Melee/Mage Hybrid sounds interessting.)

5

u/Calamari_Gourmet 7d ago

I think warlock is the most different from every other class.

Having played all of them and settling on warlock.ain, it just feels the most unique

3

u/KTMaverick 7d ago

That’s just what it is, for the vast majority of people. You love it or hate it with the gameplay, same with the aesthetic. Most people don’t but those that do are die hard.

Even when they are OP in other expansions lock doesn’t get as much FOTM bloating as many other classes/specs.

I personally like them, but still prefer mage.

1

u/not_so_wierd 7d ago

There's that old saying.

Warrior is Rock
Priest is Paper
Rogue is Scissors

Warlock is.....mushroom?? They don't really fit into the standard template.

1

u/pfSonata 6d ago

Hunter is the obvious choice here.

It is:

  • the only ranged physical class

  • the only ranged class at all that can't be interrupted/silenced

  • the only class with a deadzone

  • the only autoattack that has a (hidden) cast time

  • the only class that uses ammo for their main attack

  • the only class that has to tame specific animals in the world to learn abilities to train their existing pet

  • the only pet class that can choose their pet's visuals

  • the only class that can leave environmental objects (traps)

  • one of only 2 without an interrupt (paladin)

  • one of only 2 with a 41 yars range (mage, only fireball)

Now, admittedly warlocks have a laundry list of unique aspects as well but none of them come even close to the strangeness of having a deadzone or having to tame animals to learn skills from them

1

u/Calamari_Gourmet 6d ago

Fair point. But I think in terms of play, warlock is unique, especially in raiding, because:

  1. you basically don't have any burst window (except trinkets, but no cooldowns to pop except 1 in Affli). Most other classes do.

  2. In a raid environment warlock is going full tilt 100% of the time (unless healers are hurting). But you're just consistently trying to convert health into Mana into casts as fast as possible. You don't ramp up or pool anything (combo points, energy, Mana, rage, or whatever). Just non-stop casting as fast as you can. Life tapping only when you have to move or slow threat.

I think that's why I argue it's most unique: health and mana are 1 resource your interchange.

Every other class pulls, deals damage, takes damage, eats and (most) drinks

Warlock is some parasitic thing that just keeps going, juggling health siphon, damage, and life tap, only changing the number of mobs you pull depending on how much you need to tap for Mana or siphon life.

1

u/pfSonata 6d ago

These are minor details of raid dps compared to the fundamental gameplay differences of class mechanics that make hunters different.

Nobody is pooling or throttling anything in vanilla raid dps. The only real burst window is recklessness on a half-hour cd, maybe you can count adrenaline rush or combustion/AP but they're nothing like reck or the retail burst windows that you are seemingly more familiar with. Warlocks are shadowbolting, in practice it feels exactly like playing a mage. Hunter raid DPS involves waiting for autoshots to time your aimed shots, which is again something that other classes do not do.

1

u/Calamari_Gourmet 6d ago

Lmao. I love how you accuse me of playing retail. Agree to disagree. Raided on warrior, mage, and warlock.

Do not think warlock and mage feel similar at all.

But of course most different class is a bit subjective

1

u/W_Skunk_Cabbage 6d ago

Warlock is my first and favorite. Hunter second. Your points all make sense. I have a question though. What do you mean by "deadzone?"

2

u/pfSonata 6d ago

In vanilla hunters have a minimum shot range of 8 yards, while their melee attacks have a maximum range of 5. So between 5 and 8 yards, hunters can't do anything to their target. I view this as a trade-off for not being susceptible to silence/interrupts.

1

u/W_Skunk_Cabbage 6d ago

Oh, okay. I've noticed this before but didn't realize it was a class deal. I like your take on it though. Deadzone is better than being silenced/interrupted.

1

u/nagynorbie 7d ago

I don't know how you can say that when one of the classes can literally turn into different beasts, using different resource systems for each form, while warlock ... just casts spells, like all other spellcasters.

2

u/landyc 7d ago

Warlocks are unique in the sense they don’t regen mana in combat as a caster. They need to use their health to keep going and this is a risk while solo or in group.

Also their best aoe spell hellfire requires melee range and is self damaging.

A lock who has a group who understands what they need to perform, they are gonna do a lot.

2

u/pimpcakes 7d ago

As a former Druid main, the variety is overhyped. Bear form is extremely simple, for example, and the depth of cat gameplay is eclipsed by rogue (even during the John Madden WotLK days).

Druid PVP can get pretty complex and engaging, but for PVE it's quite simple.

1

u/Calamari_Gourmet 7d ago

I think all the other classes, except warrior need to balance resource consumption. Warlock is always trying to burn through health and mana as fast as possible. Because the faster this cycle goes, the more DPS you do.

Every other class wants to manage and sustain.

Except warrior which might pool rage

2

u/cavespro 7d ago

It’s really a fun class to lvl. I’ve made a few to 60 over the years as an alt. Never raided. Just some pvp.

2

u/Skormes 7d ago

One of my friends will main one if Forever. I probably get a bit more insight into the class then. Lets see. :D

1

u/cristofolmc 7d ago

Its precisely why i like playing Warlock. Pets as a hunter are a pain in the ass. Have to keep up with quiver as well ad food for the pet and check its mood all the time etc. A Warlock pet doesn't require any maintenance or anything just a soul shard. No taming, no mood, no food, no anything.

1

u/Athyist 8d ago

I'm hyped to be a warlock again like the days in high school playing with my friends. After BC I always Tanked or healed in any MMO so time to go back to my roots as my first WoW class that made me fall in love with MMOs.

1

u/bobbyjy32 8d ago

Dont forget the free mount!

1

u/rcburner 8d ago

I'll still play it, but I hope they add in quests/the option to turn Warlock's fire spells green. I'll likely be going Destro and I'd like to feel a bit more visually distinct from a fire mage.

1

u/gottahackett 8d ago

I’d be a warlock if I wasn’t rolling shaman. My two favorite classes by far.

1

u/Neidrah 8d ago

Soul Link was actually banned from all duelling tournament, not just Hardcore

1

u/Tasty-Rent7138 7d ago

Which tournament banned soul link? Snutz won the mak'gorah tournament as SL warlock.

1

u/niav 7d ago

Think it was Sl/Sl that was banned. 

2

u/Tasty-Rent7138 7d ago

There is no sl/sl in vanilla.

1

u/Tulac1 8d ago

Curse of Reck doesnt stack with Faerie Fire anymore and feral gets it baseline so really just 1 warlock is 'required' for curse of elements but otherwise yes

1

u/JMAN_JMAN_JMAN 8d ago

To be fair they truncated curses a lot now. You only really need like 2 locks. Maybe only 1

1

u/Dazzling-Read-8739 8d ago

I think i heard curse of reck and ff don't stack this time around but haven't seen it confirmed yet.

1

u/[deleted] 7d ago

[deleted]

1

u/Schguet 7d ago

I played Warlock for all of Classic and this just wasn't a big thing. Sure we often summoned a few stragglers but we WL's usually did that whiteout even being asked.

1

u/Gold-Appearance-4463 7d ago

You need 1 warlock for curse of elements. FF is better than Reck and they don’t stack. 

Likely doesn’t hurt to have 2 or even 3 in a raid. But you „need“ only one.

1

u/Awkward-Refuse1581 7d ago

Because they are slow as fuck, for a dps they have 0 mobility and thats really boring in wPvP

1

u/Tasty-Rent7138 7d ago

What warlock spec was banned in hc tournament? Snutz won it as an SL warlock.

1

u/TheZag90 7d ago

It’s one I’m considering. The lack of mobility is the main con for me. I can tolerate the soul shards but having absolutely no way to move faster is a bit of a drag.

The other issue is it doesn’t get all its good shit till much later.

Hunter is also a very strong DPS spec that’s even better for soloing things and has loads of mobility and kiting. The only downside is it doesn’t have as much raid utility but I’m a raid leader so I can play whatever I want and still get a raid spot.

1

u/BeatnologicalMNE 7d ago

You forgot one very important thing from PVP perspective. You are just glass if not SL spec and not all locks want to play SL.

1

u/Lastie 7d ago

Looking forward to playing one!

1

u/Miagggo 7d ago

Man affliction-tab used to make me on top spots for both healing and DPS in battlegrounds during lich king, especially when I used demo spec for defense. The talents in forever seems to enable the same, lots of survivability and self healing.

I think nobody likes a slow-moving debuff turret. It'll be my #1 class in forever without a doubt

1

u/glormosh 7d ago

Smn pls

1

u/disastrous_hyena759 7d ago

the things is warlock was always all of those things you said, even in retail today

1

u/Ecstatic_Skill_2523 7d ago

I think people reject the concept of a DoT class because for the first 40 levels most mobs in dungeons won't survive for even half the duration

1

u/Creampie_Senpai_69 7d ago

It's hilarious to me that Warlock will be likely the least popular class in the game while

I loved it when it was the case during Vanilla. As a Warlock you never got attacked by another Warlock in the open world as there where so few of us we just /wave at each other. This changed obviously later when more people rolled Warlock.

1

u/CallMeGakuto 7d ago

I just like DoTs so Warlock it is generally. I hate being told how to play, so Priest is generally out.

1

u/Esarus 7d ago

I was super excited to play Warlock in WoW forever when I saw they nerfed Will of the Forsaken a bit, but then they gave freaking Orcs an anti-Warlock racial. What the actual fuck.

1

u/thesignoftimes 7d ago

The days of warlocks being mushrooms is gone

1

u/passwordistako 7d ago

Insane to me. It’s the only class I haven’t tried in Beta because I am guaranteed playing it again at launch.

I’m actively forcing myself to not play the goat class.

1

u/Constant_Home4004 7d ago

actually hunters do curse of reck now so it’s just elements really

1

u/ufointrovert 7d ago

wait what exactly did they ban lol

1

u/Glittering_Web_9840 3d ago

Don’t worry, numbers show it’ll be Rogue

1

u/Acceptable_Slice_325 8d ago

Yeah I just don't like the class fantasy at all. If it was a nature summoner that did all the same things it would be my main. Alas.

2

u/muda_ora_thewarudo 8d ago

To each their own, purple mist and irradiated green slime are like my most favorite motif, I love the Warcraft version of a spooky scary sorcerer so much

2

u/ThatLeetGuy 8d ago

Like a Spore Druid?

4

u/Acceptable_Slice_325 8d ago

Yeah, I love that kinda thing. Demons are not my jam. Having forest spirits and mushrooms and trees as minions while using vine and leaf magic would be rad.

1

u/Adventurous-Flow5390 8d ago

Okay, so, I’m not somebody who thinks we really need a lot more classes, from the current selection at least. Butttttttt this is something I would whole heartedly get behind lol

1

u/Expert_Royal705 7d ago

Too close to druid. Reworking balance druid could be that.

-2

u/discus_notathrowaway 8d ago

"Incredible at solo leveling"

yea not anymore with 50% baseline nerfs on every spell. Getting to 60 is going to take twice as long.

Meanwhile, hunters are going to be 60 in sub 4 days. Honestly, warriors maybe too now with their fixes and tech.

3

u/UwUHowYou 6d ago

The void walker got like a 50% health buff and maybe a threat buff and suppression is a bis talent for leveling under the watchful guise of your vw.

Warlock is stupid comfy

2

u/TLewis24 7d ago

Literally nobody on this sub can agree. Either leveling is too easy or it’s going to take 2x as long lol

1

u/One-Stand-550 7d ago

It's easily gonna take twice as long easy

2

u/Dodislav 7d ago

No it's not... The spell nerf is being offset by these new powerful items the other half is complaining about. Can people just connect the "dots" here? This is getting really frustrating.

I'm playing a mage, I run the dungeons and do the crafting for those powerful items. And the leveling is completely fine!

I agree hunter came out of this a bit overpowered with their leveling speed but let's be honest, that has always been their thing.

Also it's all being tuned out anyway, hence the beta.

1

u/hernitcarb 6d ago

Makes no sense. They added more quests and higher exp from dungeons quests. It can't take longer, unless you're comparing to AoE grinding mage.

2

u/No_Consequence7064 6d ago

Lul no. Hilariously braindead take

2

u/Degot86 8d ago

They are going to be even more incredible at solo leveling with the updates to demonology tree.

1

u/Jesta23 8d ago

Warrior levels very comfortably as prot. 

Revenge hits like a truck. 

1

u/MadDog845 7d ago

50% baseline nerfs on every spell ?!!

1

u/One-View-8330 7d ago

Uh it is have y9u played beta?

1

u/SoloWalrus 7d ago

Were dots nerfed? They added crit to them, did they also take away damage?

While levelling the majority of your damage (used to be) dots, pet, wand, and the occasional nightfall proc instant shadow bolt. If dots are still strong and pets even stronger then warlocks will still be incredible levellers.

1

u/Koollan615 7d ago

Meanwhile getting to 30 was a breeze on warlock with the pet changes

Be so fr. You don't even play warlock.

1

u/Expensive_Presence_4 7d ago

Wait what fixes for warriors? Did they go back in rage normalization?

1

u/Birdmang22 6d ago

The hyperbole is real with this one. May as well exaggerate everything to the maximum degree to make your point eh?

1

u/The_Horse_Tornado 8d ago

That’s not true at all lmao. With dungeon gear my lock can pull 4 mobs at level, back to back to back to back to back to back.

1

u/teledium88 7d ago

Is lock fun at lvl 30?

1

u/The_Horse_Tornado 7d ago

Haven’t tried it past 20 ish but it only gets better and stronger there

1

u/Atiyo_ 7d ago

Not true, it really depends on gear. At lvl 20 you most likely did RFC+RoL and possibly WC if you're horde, which means you did get decent SP gear from dungeon quest rewards, mainly weapon.

The higher your spell ranks are, the more SP you'll need to get back to classic values, so if dungeons past lvl 30 don't reward decent SP weapons and other gear you will feel that right away.

At 20 WL felt amazing for me aswell. Did another WL to 23, that second WL had less loot luck and didn't do tailoring, so it felt a lot worse at 23.

Also at higher levels your wand has less of an impact compared to 20. So at 20 wand might be better than most spells, so you only dot and wand, barely spending any mana.

1

u/Karthis_Arkwood 8d ago

This is just not true. Get some gear while you are leveling, and you will find out that Warlocks are very powerful atm. Casters just need SP now, so run dungeons and craft/enchant if you take those skills.

1

u/AdventurousAd2453 8d ago

Have you actually played Lock at all on the Beta? VW threat is infinite now.

Lets not speak out of our ass 🙏

1

u/rewt127 7d ago

Could be worse. Could be trying to level a priest.

kill me now

EDIT: Yes I know priest has a great levelling experience later on. But damn that early levelling before you get rolling is rough.

2

u/Elrathias 7d ago

Wand. Wand. Wand. SWP. Wand. Wand. Wand. SWP. Wand. Wand. Wand.

1

u/rewt127 7d ago

Hey hey. Its slightly better.

Mind blast, wand, wand, wand, SWP, wand, wand, wand, SWP, wand, wand, wand.

1

u/Elrathias 7d ago

Yeah. But is it any more dps? No it isnt. But its one more thing to push... Early mind blast is just mana for damage, at a level worse than a 10s ah wand.

1

u/rewt127 7d ago

I think it technically is. The problem with casting is the cast time. Opening with a mind blast gives you a bit more burst on the target.

0

u/tangin 8d ago

The 50% baseline nerfs don’t translate to taking 2x as long to level to 60.

0

u/Bio-Grad 8d ago

Mines felt great on the beta. The voidwalker is super tanky with amazing aggro, way better than vanilla. Can just dot and wand infinitely while he tanks.

0

u/imperialzzz 7d ago

You havent leveled a warlock in the beta, or maybe the beta at all, if you did then you would understand that comparing damage numbers to classic baseline does nothing. Every single class is stronger and can pull more mobs and farm more efficiently in Forever than in Classic, with reduced values. So what the fuck is your point even? 

0

u/Few_Run3582 7d ago

Lvled a warlock to 30 on the beta and it was the easiest lvling ive done in a classic game. The pet tanks 1 mob while i was fear juggling 2 others constantly fighting 3 mobs at a time

1

u/YOGZULA 8d ago

It's not really possible to say what the best 1v1 dueling class will be, but given that soul-link is still a 30% damage reduction, it's probably still going to be warlock.

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u/teledium88 8d ago

Enh shaman claps warlocks at 30.

6

u/Aurvakr 7d ago

...who cares?

3

u/Lumtar 7d ago

Who cares at lvl 30

2

u/FUTFUTFUTFUTFUTFUT 7d ago

It's a shame warlocks don't have all of their peel tools at level 30

Let's see how this comment applies at level 60

1

u/YOGZULA 7d ago

explain? purge doesn't dispel soul link, yeah? so what does enh get that counters them?

1

u/teledium88 7d ago

They hit the hardest of any class. And the interrupts. Locks dont have spell lock at 30.

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u/cecilofs 7d ago

When Locks get Death Coil and Spell Lock Shaman will be a light snack for them. Shadow Priests and Rogues have traditionally only been their main problems, and Death Coil into Fear can sometimes get a rogue off you.

2

u/Jonsein 7d ago

I’ve been watching some of the streamers doing the beta tournament and a good warlock beats enh 9 times out of ten

1

u/Neither-Juice3504 7d ago

Wow head tells me soul link is a magic buff

2

u/YOGZULA 7d ago

a very early patch in 2006 made it so that it can't be dispelled and I don't think that's ever changed and probably will be the same in Forever

1

u/Trickytickler 7d ago

Sure, without Soul Link, Death Coil, Spell lock and whatever else locks have.

1

u/Rankstarr 7d ago

Warlock doesn’t have half their kit at 30

1

u/Visible-Complaint-60 7d ago

And enh shaman can only dream of hitting a mage or hunter at 30, your point is ?

1

u/AbsolutlyN0thin 7d ago

Mobility is just so bad on locks. But they did eventually add an ability that imo solved the issue well enough, demonic circle. That is such a good positioning tool, and I wish it was in, it would solve so many issues imo

-1

u/Kurthos 8d ago

Hunter pets apply same curse debuffs

3

u/Joyful750 8d ago

Is there a pet that applies something similar to curse of the elements? I know there was an armor reduction one but isn't it still worse than curse of reck?

2

u/cagethug 8d ago

There isnt. Or reck. Or shadow

2

u/Masiyo 8d ago

Faerie Fire and CoR's armor debuffs don't stack in Forever AFAIK, so it's one or the other.

1

u/Affectionate-Alps527 8d ago

Faerie fire has no draw back, so if that's the case, the decision is a no brainer except if needed to prevent fleeing

1

u/cagethug 8d ago

I wasnt aware of this. Nor am I aware of a pet that does either of those.

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u/cagethug 8d ago

Yeah what pets are those?

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u/DepartmentNo511 8d ago

People don't sign up for Warlock often for reasons of pure class fantasy. It's the most overtly villainous and sinister character archetype. If there were like an elemental summoner that was good guy coded and mechanically had all of the same things as a warlock but with less grimy labels attached to abilities and talents, it would be a lot more popular. There's not much to be done about it though. You could probably put elaborate class quests in the game that let you choose to be the bad guy, or follow a more demon hunter-esque fighting fire with fire personal story that would let you feel good about the immersion of being a warlock within your faction and the world whilst not being a toxic shitter.

Arguably warrior has way more friction to the leveling journey than warlock and yet there are so many of them in every version of the game. It's mostly not a mechanical choice being made. If anything more people are rolling warlock strictly for the sheer power it has despite its' thematic baggage.

Most players got attached to a main, or favorite alt ages ago when they knew nothing about the game mechanically speaking and new players are still making these choices today. Blizzard has sponsored tons of content creators to make 1st time WoW player videos for Forever's marketing push and no one picks warlock, or even finds it appealing when glossing all of the class options.

3

u/Baladeur 8d ago

I don't think the "villainous" class fantasy is what makes warlock unpopular.

Death Knights can be just as villainous yet are very popular : they're also cool as hell.

If we go outside wow, Warlock is also extremely popular in DnD. Third most played in BG3. Slightly different fantasy ofc, but plenty of casual players don't delve too deep into lore to réalise what their warlock quests actually have them do.

And if we remain within classic, undead are very much villanous yet among the most popular races of classic, almost tied to orcs.

All in all, it could be a small factor, but I don't think them being perceived as villainous is why they're unpopular

1

u/DepartmentNo511 7d ago

I won't belabor the point, but by villainous I mean they are at best a villain faction within the game that is not a part of any other group and at worst individual fucked up weirdos who can't control their sadism. I wouldn't draw any equivalence between Death Knight and Forsaken and Warlocks.

You don't even really need that deep of a pull. Most people will see the Horde as "the bad guys", but they aren't actually presented as doing "bad guy" coded stuff for absolutely no reason, and the actual text is relatively neutral.

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u/wowveteran2004 8d ago

To me warlock suffers from four big issues.

  1. If I wanted to play a caster, I'd rather play a mage.

  2. If I wanted to play a pet class, I'd play a hunter. I mained one at 60 and 70 and know they're just more fun than warlock mostly because almost all their abilities are instant imo.

  3. Soul Shards, obviously. Yeah, class flavor is awesome, but warlocks already have that with imo by far the best class quests. At the VERY LEAST don't make them disappear when you log out.

  4. If you're Alliance, good luck with all the Undead and Orcs.

7

u/WINGSTERR 7d ago

What the fuck are these points

"Warlock suffers from four big issues"

First big issue "I'd rather play mage" Second big issue "I'd rather play hunter"

Well fuck sick points bro I understand exactly what big issues warlock have more than that you would rather want to play hunter and mage lol

1

u/wowveteran2004 7d ago

If you had any reading ability youd infer that it means as a caster, mage appeals to more people than warlock. As one of two pet classes, hunter appeals more than warlock. Derp

2

u/thepicklemoon 8d ago

they dont dissapear, i think youll find

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u/bobbyjy32 8d ago

I like being stronger than everyone else in pvp while also being an uncommon pick!

0

u/-Flintskalle- 8d ago

True, but they can't tank T_T.
Gimme a warlock tank spec and I'm in!

0

u/zmagickz 8d ago

let it remain that way. reward the friction

0

u/Dangerous-Leader-779 8d ago

Blizzard doesn’t know what to do, or is purposefully biased against locks for some reason. This post is a perfect example. Horde racials are another.

Just don’t play Warlock. Ez.

1

u/CainnicOrel 7d ago

Maybe it changes at higher levels but I've yet to have trouble

0

u/edwardsamson 7d ago

Also outside of Hunter (Feign death) and Rogue (Vanish) I feel like Warlock is one of the safest hardcore classes. I've leveled 2 to 60 in hardcore (including my first ever attempt at HC) and have never died on one. Even better now with the 10% damage reduction talent in destro. You just go demo and get the survivability talents. More stam, bigger Voidwalker sac shield, insta cast demon (so you can sac VW then instantly recast for another shield), damage reduction with VW out, and Soul Link.

1

u/Welcome-gg 7d ago

My first two warlocks died, one at level 5 or 6 on my way to Brill, one with level 7 at the elevator in UC. 3rd one made it to 60 though.

1

u/Skormes 7d ago

Shouldn't Paladin be with them? Plate armor, can run Prot + Shield and bubble himself out of danger.

1

u/Pleasant_Nose_7175 7d ago

Priest is good, priest is very good but slow

1

u/QueenOfTendys 7d ago

Warlock is statistically the worst hardcore class tied with shaman.

2

u/Expert_Royal705 7d ago

What about post level 20 statistics? I feel like those averages are misleading, also warrior tend to do quite well but that's skewed by people picking it who tend to know the game a lot more and/or funnel more gear into it.

By all accounts warlocks should be a very safe class, pet class with a ton of defensive options. Demon sac by itself should be nearly as strong as paladin bubble tbh.

1

u/edwardsamson 7d ago

You can also bubble hearth uninterrupted with VW sac shield

1

u/TheZag90 7d ago

Presumably because it starts slow

0

u/SwampOfDownvotes 7d ago

I mean, don't care if a class is great if it's unfun.

I'm likely gonna roll one as a potential secondary to give it a chance in forever, but while I love warlock in concept, I don't find it fun in retail. I haven't tried it in classic. 

0

u/absalom86 7d ago

If it didnt take 10 seconds to resummon a pet after dying plus all the other chore buffs and stuff you have to do (healthstone,soulstone,weapon enchant, armor buff) the class would be a lot more popular.

It is even worse if you are demonology, you have to summon a pet, sacrifice it, summon another one plus do everything I mentioned above. For each death. Now imagine a battleground or something.

Oh and because you CAN summon you are always expected to run to dungeon first, extra chore or perk? It is a chore to me.

0

u/Infamous-Sky-5367 7d ago

All those things could be remedied by making them instant cast but only out of combat.

2

u/absalom86 7d ago

There is a talent where your abilities don´t cost mana after ressing for 1 minute until you enter combat, that could include a cast time increase even if it was just for hunter and warlock ( resummoning pets ), talent is in the legacy tree.

1

u/zaibuf 7d ago

All those things could be remedied by making them instant cast but only out of combat.

Would be busted in PvP

0

u/Malban 7d ago

Wait hold on... being able to do things and have gameplay is what you don't like about the class? That is the personality, that is what makes classic stickier. Remove that and it ceases to be a video game like retail. Everything is automated so why even play?

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