New controversial Ad in Ireland about consent

[u/ArcherVisible5866]

[u/It_was_mee_all_along]

I don't know, are you teaching your children only black and white?

[u/theatermouse → u/It_was_mee_all_along]

I think in this instance it is pretty black and white. DON'T TOUCH PEOPLE WITHOUT THEIR CONSENT.

To extend you a courtesy your point doesn't deserve, obviously you also teach your children about grey areas, but honestly there aren't many. Someone having a heart attack and unresponsive not being able to or having to give consent to EMS personnel to save their life comes to mind. But beyond that, even doctors and hospitals are not allowed to treat patients without consent and people can refuse touch and care.

[u/AnduwinHS → u/theatermouse]

The attitude of thinking of a close family member giving a hug to a loved one as "Touching people without their consent" absolutly screams of entitlement. Expecting people to forgo cultural norms so that you can avoid slight awkwardness is such a strange stance to take.

Life is full of things that are unpleasant or awkward or uncomfortable. Obviously there is serious things that nobody should have to deal with, but expecting everyone else to adjust to your worldview so you don't have to experience slight discomfort is just learned helplessness and entitlememt. Either it is a small issue that you can just put up with, or it's a big enough issue that you can tell someone you aren't comfortable with it. You shouldn't expect them to walk on eggshells around their loved ones.

And I'm even saying all this as someone who doesn't like being hugged by anyone other than my partner as it makes me feel awkward

[u/vere-rah → u/AnduwinHS]

It's telling that you consider a grandparent receiving a rejection to a hug as having to walk on eggshells. Forcing a hug on someone isn't a worldview, it's a lack of respect. You don't like being hugged? You don't have to be hugged by anyone! Why put yourself through that?

[u/AnduwinHS → u/vere-rah]

My comment says right there "Either It's a small issue that you just put up with, or it's a big enough issue that you can tell someone you aren't comfortable with it."

My point is that if it effects you, absolutely you should speak up and tell someone you aren't comfortable. But hugging is seen as a normal, harmless thing by the majority of the population, so it shouldn't be expected for everyone else to be wary of giving an unwanted hug.

My problem is making it seem like an unwanted hug is 'Touching without consent' if the person doesn't make it known that they don't want a hug. If someone says "Actually I'm not really comfortable with a hug" then obviously they shouldn't be hugged. But you need to actually speak up for yourself and not expect other people to adjust their behavior based on the fact that someone might be uncomfortable

[u/xadventchildx → u/AnduwinHS]

If you touched the person, and they didn't say yes, then by what metric have you obtained consent to touch them? Pretty clearly, you haven't, and unspoken social expectations do not count as consent. So, if you didn't get consent, and you touched them anyway, whether they said anything or not, that is pretty expressly touching without consent by definition.

The majority of the population may view it as harmless, but that doesn't mean it's right. And as someone who loves hugs with every fiber of my being, if a person did not agree to my hug, then I don't proceed with giving it, because respecting physical boundaries is not more difficult than being set in my ways and refusing to adjust to a changing climate.

[u/theatermouse → u/AnduwinHS]

The ad shows children (albeit tweens/teens). Children are still learning how to speak up for themselves, and that they CAN speak up for themselves. Isn't it better for a grandparent to say a quick "can I give you a hug?" rather than putting a child, who is at a disadvantage, in the position of having to say "no" to an authority figure without even a question to give them an opening?

[u/AnduwinHS → u/vere-rah]

You are obviously misunderstanding my comment as I never said that receiving a rejection is having to walk on eggshells. I'm saying that unless someone specifically states they don't want a hug, the grandparents shouldn't be expected to avoid hugging them.

If someone says they don't want a hug, then absolutely they shouldn't be hugged. But it is up to the person to make it known they don't want a hug, it is not up to everyone else to be wary of hugging them

And yes I don't like being hugged, but it is a brief awkwardness that doesn't have any lasting impact. If it really affected me, I would tell people not to hug me. But I would rather just deal with the tiny amount of awkwardness than expect social norms to bend to what I consider acceptable

[u/theatermouse → u/AnduwinHS]

unless someone specifically states they don't want a hug, the grandparents shouldn't be expected to avoid hugging them.

One big issue is that people often DO state that they are uncomfortable - with their body language. But huggers often either don't see it or willfully ignore it. ASKING first makes it a lot harder for someone to willfully misinterpret a "no".

Maybe social norms SHOULD change, if people (including yourself!!!!!!!!!) are being forced to forgo autonomy and boundaries for the sake of being "nice".