r/worldnews • u/[deleted] • 3h ago
Russia/Ukraine Poland reportedly suspends delivery of a large weapons package to Ukraine over the Lviv Regional Council’s decision to declare 2027 the year of the Ukrainian Insurgent Army
[deleted]
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u/BringbackDreamBars 2h ago
I understand this is a local government thing and has been condemned, but surely theres got to be some ways of generating national pride and resistance that dont provoke your neighbour( who handles a considerable amount of your logistics too)?
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u/TheSilverFern 2h ago
It's not as if Ukraine has had a shortage of heroism the last few years! It happens every day along the front line.
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u/DingleBerrieIcecream 1h ago
Just make 2027 the Year of the Drone Pilots. They are a huge part of their defense.
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u/Germfreecandy 3h ago
I will never stop backing Ukraine against Russia but they’re also making some questionable decisions sometimes.
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u/Kridenberg 3h ago
We already (nation and government) condemned what Lviv oblast administration did. Idiots...
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u/DivineSwordMeliorne 2h ago
Generally speaking during an existential war ; you really want the super-nationalistic people to be appeased because they're the one's most likely to die fighting for you.
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u/ridelance 2h ago
Except the central Ukrainian government (you know, the one responsible for fighting said war) told the local council not to do this and they did it anyway.
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u/DivineSwordMeliorne 35m ago
What about the instances where the Ukrainian government did something even remotely similar to this?
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u/ridelance 6m ago
That does not justify a region doing something that was specifically requested not to be done by the central government. The central government has the foreign relations mandate and it has the sole constitutional competence to decide how to balance (in your words) “appeasing” the people and conducting foreign policy.
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u/cropdust1 2h ago
Exactly these people dont know shit about war
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u/ridelance 2h ago
The Ukrainian government literally told the regional council not to do this. You think some local region should overrule the central government during an existential war?
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u/a_man_has_a_name 2h ago
From an on lookers perspective, and from an international politics perspective it is a completely stupid thing.
But from an internal perspectives, symbols are powerful things and having "heros" to look upto when fighting, or when you have to shelter from bombs being drropped on you, it is an extremely powerful moral boost and the sense of national pride can help with recruitment.
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u/rookieseaman 2h ago
There are actual modern day heroes to revere though. You don’t need to pretend long dead war criminals are heroes
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u/DuskOfANewAge 3h ago
All those people are dead. The people today making a stink about it are just the latest generation's edgelords trying to get noticed for the wrong reasons. There's no reason to celebrate the objectively bad parts of WWII just like nobody in the US reenacts a Civil War POW camp everybody sitting around dying of dysentery or sepsis. One thing I've realized is people like bringing up the wars of the past a lot when they don't want to face what's going on right now in the present.
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u/macross1984 2h ago
Unfortunately, there will always be one rotten apple that ruin bushel of good apples.
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u/sovietarmyfan 2h ago
Lwow has a tragic history. Technically it is part of Ukraine because of the soviets. The border had its roots in the Soviet-German invasion of Poland. The south east of Poland was annexed into Ukraine including the city of Lwow. During WW2 the Ukrainian UPA and the Germans carried out massacres against its Polish and Jewish population. After WW2 the remaining Poles were forcibly expelled.
Its still a huge black stain between Poland and Ukraines relations.
And this is not some Polish or Pro russian propaganda. Its actual history.
Wikipedia has a article on it with reliable sources: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacres_of_Poles_in_Volhynia_and_Eastern_Galicia
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u/Responsible-Baby-551 2h ago
I don’t want to jump down this rabbit hole but it was a part of Ukraine as far back as 1100 as part of the Galicia-Volhynia Rus or Kingdom, it’s been called both. Not that the history forgives the crimes
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u/misterprat 2h ago
I mean, the Poles seem to forget they also massacred Ukrainian civilians, which is also actual history.
The Ukrainian actions are bad, but so are the Poles, so they all should just shut up and not accuse the others of things they themselves did as well5
u/wavydave1965 1h ago edited 1h ago
Right, but I don’t see Poland declaring 2027 the year of the army that massacred Ukrainians. This is not the time for Ukraine to poke that hornet’s nest.
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u/misterprat 1h ago
But you see Poland declaring that the conflict was only a Ukranian genocide against Poles, and it is not true either.
Obviously the Ukrainians are wrong for what they did too.
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u/wavydave1965 50m ago
Yeah, I agree that Poland needs to be more upfront about their historical agressions against Ukrainians. I'm actually Canadian of Polish descent whose family lived in what is now Ukraine, so I hear all sides.
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u/bomzay 2h ago
Or both sides should acknowledge that some shitty stuff was done and not glorify those who did it?
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u/misterprat 2h ago
Precisely, but neither side does. the Ukrainians should stop glorifying their part in the genocide, and the Poles should stop acting like they did nothing wrong and acknowledge their part of blame
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u/sovietarmyfan 2h ago
Whataboutism still seems to be a traditional way in online arguments, used by both sides.
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u/misterprat 2h ago
It’s not whataboutism, that conflict had Ukrainians massacring Poles and Poles massacring Ukrainians, and the same way it’s wrong of Ukrainians to pretend they did nothing wrong, it’s also bad of the Poles to pretend it was only the Ukrainians killing and that they did nothing wrong either.
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u/pyrotechnicmonkey 1h ago
pretty hard for the Polish to throw stones about stuff in World War II considering how many Polish civilians and politicians collaborated with the Germans to deport their Jewish citizens.
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u/ExuberantRaptor17 53m ago
Actually not really cuz Poles also have by far the most "Righteous among Nations" awards of any nation by a large margin. So you know. We can cope ;)
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u/GammaDie345 57m ago
"yeah some city council said a dumb thing about world war 2 so we're gonna block aid that will save the lives of countless innocent civilians"
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u/Toruviel_ 2h ago
FYI It was already debunked by Polish military.
It's just an Ukrainian narrative fake news to prevent Poland from real retaliation.
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u/y2kdebunked 2h ago
denying water to the house inferno next to mine because a century ago that guy’s great great grandpa burnt down the house of my great great grandpa + he has a nephew who made a joke about it on facebook
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u/moose098 2h ago
More like brutally butchered your grandparents family with farm implements. This isn’t ancient history. There are survivors who are still alive and they almost certainly passed down that trauma to their children.
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u/y2kdebunked 2h ago
so let’s let allies die in their honour bc a few idiots who were shut down by Zelenskyy said something bad. let’s make it easier for Russia to invade Poland again.
if they truly are withholding aid over this, that is weak foreign policy that signals vulnerability to emotional manipulation.
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u/AwayLion9616 1h ago
Man, this sucks. If true, it's kind of stupid that the national government of Poland is criticizing the national government of Ukraine for something a regional government did even after the national government of Ukraine condemned it.
This begs the question, why is Ukraine ok with naming a military unit after the Ukrainian Insurgents Army (UPA) even after being pressured not to do so by Poland, but not if Lviv regional government names a day for after them? Doesn't make sense.
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u/MeasurementLocal2660 2h ago
they really should reconsider smuggling it up the gap through austria-hungary if they want to remain sovereign...
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u/Able_Ad_4874 3h ago
Wow time boycott Poland 💔😊😊
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u/staythewaters 3h ago
Or maybe the Lviv regional council shouldn't be giving tribute to Nazi collaborators.
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u/Kridenberg 3h ago
Lviv oblast administration are slightly охуєвші. They will receive their sweet treatment in a future. Both people and government are on their tail now
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u/PanzerFoster 3h ago
Yeah how dare Poland not support a government that is honoring the Nazi sympathizers that slaughtered 100,000 Polish civilians with farming equipment and vivisected pregnant women to rip out the fetus growing within them.
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u/Both_Storm_4997 3h ago
Don't say like that. We support Ukraine and gave all we could, but they act hostile and disrespectful to us glorifying murderers of Poles. I'm sure they have other heroes than that who's spilled polish blood.
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u/foobar93 2h ago
Don't say like that. We support Ukraine and gave all we could, but they act hostile and disrespectful to us glorifying murderers of Poles. I'm sure they have other heroes than that who's spilled polish blood.
Don't kid yourself. You support Ukraine for the same reason the rest of Europe does - you know you are next when Ukraine falls.
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u/jabol321 2h ago
Um no? Russia would get bitch slapped if it attacked nato. Unless it was willing to use nukes, and ukraine war ahowed us ita not. West is supporting ukraine because it's the right thing to do.
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u/foobar93 2h ago
Yeah no, we already see attack by Russia on NATO countries and everyone is basically just trying to downplay it to not have this becaome a full fledged war Russia vs NATO.
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u/jabol321 1h ago
Yeah no shit. Nobody wants war. Even if you're stronger and will win, people will die.
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u/Both_Storm_4997 1h ago
They can't overcome Ukraine alone without allies on their side. There's no way they could play with nato. Even if potin don't really care about losses he should understand the outcome.
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u/jabol321 1h ago
It's not Ukraine alone though. Uktaine gets intel and huge financial/weapon/supplies support. Russia gets support too but it's more meatbags for the frontline. Russia vs Ukraine on their own would look very different.
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u/Both_Storm_4997 1h ago
Still intel and financial support are from the West. In case of direct attack on the West the number of means will increase dramatically.
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u/foobar93 1h ago
True, the question is, would the will to fight be the same? Ukraine knows it will not exist anymore, would Germany stop existing if Russia attacked? We now have the AFD and BSW in multiple locations in the government who are very very russia friendly. I hope we would put up a fight put I am afraid we may jsut roll over.
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u/Both_Storm_4997 2h ago
Even if you are right but you aren't we helped Ukrainians with open arms. But you behave really weird. And they would arrack Lithuania first probably to ensure land bridge to Kralovec. Then article 5.
It's you who fights for unique chance to be a part of Central Europe instead of Eastern Europe.
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u/foobar93 2h ago
we helped Ukrainians with open arms
Poland had very much its own interests in mind. From blocking shipments of grain to demanding permission to exhume Polish victims of the Volhynia massacres during war time. Please, do not kid yourself.
And yes, the other EU states aren't better in any shape or form, everyone is looking out for their own benefit.
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u/Both_Storm_4997 2h ago
Ukrainians are really weird sometimes, they think the whole world is centered around Ukraine. Well it is right now just because of the struggle with Russia that is a major bad guy. But not that much. Every country has its own agenda. You don't help Poland for free, you don't even really want to care about polish trauma.
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u/AloneChapter 2h ago
In a war you really can’t depend only on your own intelligence people. Politics ends a lot of lives because of egos and even tinier Johnson’s.
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u/green_flash 3h ago edited 1h ago
EDIT: Update: Poland's minister of defense denies that the arms package has been halted