We all know the bigger retcons like the Eredar one or the Jailer etc.

But what smaller retcons that don't necessarily influence the story all too much still bother you after years?

For me, it was the Apothecary Society and their leader. I don't really remember where I read it. But when i started in Classic, the Forsaken were described with 3 leaders: Sylvanas, Banshee Queen and Leader of the Undead, Varimathras, her second in command, and Apothecary Faranell!

Sylvanas and Varimathras stood in the throne room, Faranell was in the center of the Apothecary Quarter. So I was convinced he's the boss there.

Then, the WotLK pre patch came, and there was this guy called Putress. Grand Apothecary Putress. All of a sudden, he was an important guy in the Society. Faranell was just his subordinate.

For not even half an expansion he was the head honcho, and then we killed him. And suddenly, Faranell was back in charge.

But it bothered me, and still does. Especially after they put Putress in Season of Discovery. And also he became a major player in the new undead campaign in Warcraft 3, like he was of course always there!

I'm not quite following. Blood Elves in game and Blood Elf players in the forum whine 24/7 about Garithos and the actions of the Alliance of Lordaeron towards blood elves in Warcraft 3...

But Sylvanas killed them all, and they were raised as Forsaken, and not just that but the newest Warcraft 3 campaign outright has undead Garithos who now "hates all humans" instead of elves.

So the Blood Elves not only joined the faction that had the Orcs that sided with the Amani and raided Quel'thalas in WC2, killing plenty of high elves including Sylvanas brother... but they also joined the faction that has the very Alliance that they resent and the exact same men that almost had them all killed?

Hey everyone!

In about 20 days, I’m going on a road trip with the boys. We’ll be driving around 7,000 km, so there will be plenty of time for long and increasingly stupid conversations.

I’m more of a newer/casual WoW fan, but one of the guys coming with us is an OG lore buff. I recently discovered that he gets very bothered by newer lore, retcons, and strange fan theories.

For example, he absolutely hates being reminded that elves are descended from trolls.

So I need your help.

Please give me your wildest WoW lore theories, cursed interpretations, uncomfortable canon facts, or technically defensible arguments that I can use to slowly drive him insane during the trip.

The more ridiculous the theory, the better but bonus points if there is enough actual lore behind it that I can seriously argue for it.

What pieces of lore are most likely to make an old-school WoW lore fan start shouting, That’s not how it works!?

EDIT: Alright, I think I have enough to scar him for a while. Thank you all for the amazing work! I’ll read everything you leave here before the trip, but I won’t keep responding as much as I have been because I think I already have enough material.

Let's say for example Blizzard want to make 2 hours movie about a warcraft character story, who will you choose?

Before the comment become filled with Arthas, I want to make small rule if possible, try to comment 1 name, don't add anything to it just the name, and if you want to add reasons make a comment under the name, if someone else said the name before you just upvote it and if you have reasons why that character work, add it as comments in the name so we can see who will be the second and third character under Arthas XD

Question for the loreists:

In a lot of Paladin lore, I see Paladins like Uther always wielding a Hammer.

Is this like the most authentic way to be a Paladin, or is there an argument for swords as well? both 1 handers and two handers?

Is there a place in game lore that says. True Paladins uses hammers primarily?

I feel like over the years we defeated most big threats and what's left is a mere sidequest. For instance Azshara.

There may still be the light (depending on the end of the saga), Iridikron and titans coming back/Azeroth waking up but I don't know, they don't feel that threatening either after all we've done

I played Warcraft III's campaign when I was a kid and absolutely loved Arthas' story. Now, replaying it as an adult, there's one part of his downfall that I don't think I fully understand: what were Arthas' actual motivations after taking Frostmourne?

I understand his motivations before that point. He's obsessed with stopping Mal'Ganis, becomes increasingly ruthless, purges Stratholme, abandons everything to pursue him to Northrend, and eventually takes Frostmourne despite the warnings.

And I understand that Frostmourne "corrupts" him and claims his soul.

But what does that corruption actually mean from Arthas' point of view?

Why does he suddenly become willing to murder his father, destroy Lordaeron, slaughter his own people and serve the Lich King?

Does Frostmourne basically remove his free will and turn him into a puppet? Does it twist his personality and morality while leaving his agency intact? Does Arthas genuinely become loyal to the Lich King? Or does he develop a desire for power and actually want what the Scourge offers him?

Basically, when Arthas walks into the throne room and kills Terenas, what does Arthas himself believe he is doing, and why does he want to do it?

I'm especially interested in the Warcraft III interpretation, but lore from the novels or later games that clarifies his state of mind would be great too.

I've just replayed Warcraft 3, and this question popped into my head.

How do Thrall and Cairne manage to speak to each other when Thrall arrives in Kalimdor? They have never seen each other's races before and lived on different continents. Thrall speaks orcish, and Cairne speaks taur-ahe. How do they even communicate?

I know it's done for the sake of gameplay, but is there a lore explanation for this?

I might be being dumb, or impatient or just straight up forgetting what happened in the pre-patch- but where is Vereesa? The last I recall was that she was with Arator in Dornogal for the pre-patch stuff, but I feel like she just vanished after that? was there even an in-game explanation as to where she went? Why has Arator not brought her up at all in Midnight? (Or at least not from what I've seen.)

**Feel like I should clarify, I'm not demanding her immediate return, nor asking her to be front and center. In fact I'm not complaining at all, about anything. I thought that maybe I had missed something somewhere that her name was mentioned or maybe if her model was standing somewhere idly as from a story perspective it's bizarre to me that she was reintroduced briefly and now its like she's vanished off the face of the earth without so much as Arator uttering her name.

I didn't realise it was like I'd committed a cardinal sin by asking where she is 😅

This is a point of discussion I've been very curious about because everyone seems to have a different answer. At what point do you consider to be the start of "modern Warcraft" storytelling

A lot of people say, for example, that modern WoW's tone and "darkness" is off, and that the story isn't "dark enough." Which should indicate that modern WoW would be post-Shadowlands and BFA. Because regardless of our thoughts on the stories actual *quality,* Shadowlands and BFA were undeniably quite dark. The work they did in Drustvar, Nazmir, the Maw and Revendreth are some of the darkest shit Blizzard has ever written.

So if that was the case then fair enough. But people will also say that "modern WoW" has gone off a cliff in terms of writing *and then cite BFA and Shadowlands as examples of this.* (This isn't to say Warcraft's story hasn't diminished at all, that's not the point of this discussion.) So that would mean BFA and Shadowlands *are* Modern Warcraft

I've also seen people say that modern Warcraft is cataclysm onwards and I'm sorry to say this but Cataclysm was *nearly 16 years ago.* Relatively speaking to the overall timeline of Warcraft's development that would be like saying the polynesian voyages were modern times so I think that's kind of stretching the definition a bit.

So at what point do you consider to be the start of "modern Warcraft" and it's story? Me personally I consider it to have started with Legion and *maybe* WoD. I'm curious to see what other people's answers are

Did they ever explain this in lore? Is there even a lore reason for that?

During the Second War, Alexstraza was enslaved by Nekros of the Dragonmaw clan using the Demon Soul.

She withdrew from mortal affairs, more or less, until the Nexus War against Malygos, and when she emerged, as far as I'm aware, she was perfectly content working with the Horde.

My question is, did she ever address the Horde's guilt in this matter? Or did she consider devouring Nekros (Spoiler for Day of the Dragon) to be sufficient vengeance for her imprisionment? Or did she make a distinction between the Doomhammer's Old Horde and Thrall's New Horde?

Just curious if this tension was ever resolved or just quietly swept under the rug.

I just don't really see the A to B to C of Arthas going from 'Man of action Prince of vengeance' to 'zombie hitler'. We tend to think of stratholome as the first place where he started losing his mind but he really did have a reason for doing it imagine if he hadn't because from what I understand it would have been an entire other army of undead to fight. So then he goes in search of power and find frostmourne and... Loses his mind immediately?

I see people who say he was slowly corrupted and thought what he was doing was good, I see people saying that he simply lost his mind during his time in northrend, I see people saying that he was 100% not in control of his actions. And that confusion makes sense because blizzard seems to want to have it all ways. I don't know if we've ever gotten any detailed explanation on what exactly happened to him but the Lord simultaneously treats him as a victim but also as 'most evil person ever even more evil than sylvanas when she's blowing up cities and shit'.

Edit: So I asked one of the guys that actually made stratholme and it appears that the devs are entirely unaware of the things that lead most people to believe that arthas was doing the right thing in stratholme. He was indeed turning evil on his own hello in stratholme was supposed to read as an entirely unnecessary slaughter for the purpose of ego

Finally “repaying a debt we owe to the Sindorei”

Ma’am, Lor’themar is your husband and his city is currently under siege and you’re just now sending aid to Silvermoon once the sunwell is finally corrupted? If he’s the reagent lord of Silvermoon wouldn’t that technically make you the reagent queen of Silvermoon?

so when Arthas killed her back in W3 he turned her into a banshee which is an ectoplasmic ghost and not a zombie. she’s available for the rest of that mission as a non hero unique unit. she’s not seen again until the frozen thrones undead campaign where she is a hero unite called a dark ranger where without explanation who has went from a floating ghost to having a corporal body.

she never stops being classified as a banshee but she still went from being a ghost to a zombie. (also when I say zombie I just mean any undead that has a physical body as opposed to an ectoplasmic ghost entity) she clearly has a physical body and isn’t a spectral entity anymore. in frozen throne she Talks to other Banshees that look like they always do (ghosts) and in wow we can encounter Banshees that are the same ghosts from W3 so it’s not like they retconned what Banshees are.

is their Any official in universe explanation of her change or is it the type of thing we are not supposed to think about?

Disclaimer: this is not a gripe about the skyborne models or anything at all. I’m just trying to understand from a lore and evolutionary perspective how did the Skyborne “evolve” into looking almost exactly like Thalassian High Elves (minus the blue skin of course)

From my understanding the Thalassian High Elves follow the lineage of Night Elves -> Highborne -> High Elves then eventually becoming Blood Elves and so on

Skyborne also come from the Highborne but instead of going to Quel’Thalas their ancestors settled in Eldre’ Thalas (Dire Maul) then eventually fleeing from Prince Tortheldrins plan and ended up in Zephras Isle.

So in terms of their physical build and features they look visually just like the Thalassian High Elves (again minus some having blue skin/hair). Why is that? Why wouldn’t they have different physical features outside of some color/hair changes?

Thanks in advance!

Blizzard said this expansion will see a lot of 'known and beloved characters die'.

Who has so far died for good? No 'might still be alive' or anything. No 'might be brought back'. Dead. Gone. Have ceased to be. Expired and gone to meet their maker. A stiff. Bereft of life, resting in peace.

I thought they were leading to her being the next big antagonist?

Like they went to Draenor to stop the Fel Horde, but in turn created its counterpart, Yrels Crusade.

So instead of Fel Orcs killing all the Draenai, you have the Light infused Draenai killing all the Orcs, and then she could invade our world the way Guldan led the Orc invasion

Xal'atath's goal is to capture the Sunwell.

The Sin'dorei stand in her way, so she directs the Devouring Host to assault the Isle of Quel'Danas, Silvermoon, and Eversong. This makes sense, because the blood elves will do anything to protect the Sunwell.

Zul'Aman is next door to Eversong Woods and houses a former empire of pissed off, burly trolls who have hated the blood elves for generations. They pose no threat to Xal'atath or her plans to conquer the Sunwell, and may have actually made for natural allies against the Sin'dorei as they did when the Horde sieged Quel'Thalas during the Second War.

With Silvermoon's focus drawn to protecting the Sunwell, Xal'atath could have turned to the Amani and offered them power - just as she did with the ethereals. She could have said, "I have weakened and distracted your ancient enemies. Their focus is off-shore, on the Sunwell. Your loa abandoned you, but I am here now. I can give you your land back.

Allying with the Amani would have given Xal'atath a huge advantage against the blood elves, sandwiching them between attacks from the Voidstorm and Zul'Aman.

Instead, she sent the ogre guy to attack them, because...?

What does Xal'atath gain from angering the Amani? The only thing I can possibly imagine would be to consume their loa gods by bringing them out of hiding, but would eating the loa really be worth more than diving the elves' attention? I dunno, man.

Make it make sense. What am I missing?

1) Isn't Ula'tek just a Loa?

2) How strong is Ula'tek?

3) I read that Ula'tek is spawned from the Rift of Aln. Doesn't that mean that Ula'tek is tied to the Old Gods? If so, why would Ula'tek fight Kith'ix?

4) Is Ula'tek straight up evil? Or can she be reasoned with like other Loa?

Or not? Or is the "main game" still just canon?

These Skyborne Night Elves, are they canon too? New stuff added to Forever...

I am at a loss here.

As the title says, it doesn't have to be anything really relevant tied to the canon or the general plot.

These would be mine:

Since Cataclysm, Khadgar sleeps more comfortably knowing that there is no longer any kaiju dragon made of rock, metal and fire holding a special grudge against him (And there is no way for him to return, he is very dead, definitely dead).

Since Warcraft 3, Night Elf teachers and professors will now have to deal with more than 3-5 children per class.

At the very least, there must be some human who has made it his goal to be with every female of every intelligent race on Azeroth.