r/videogames • u/Chocobo23456 • 10h ago
Discussion / Question Why difficulty debates such a heated debate?
I always wondered about this because this one debate I remember even having as a young child because of what's considered easy and hard. I've seen many different types like what's considered too easy or too hard, a game I'd harder than a soulsborne comparison, interjections about a game or difficulty game mode being easy to one person and hard/challenging to another, comments about playing the hardest difficulty is the best way to play a game, and artificial difficulty. These are the common discussions i can think of in relation to difficulty.
Even excluding modern games, there's still debates on the hardest games of old and what's considered artificial difficulty. Like why is difficulty such a long-standing debate at all?
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u/Possible-Row6689 9h ago
From what I’ve seen, there is a small number of people who like hard games who are rude to people who dont, and a lot of people who like easy games who are rude to people who like hard games. Rude people tend to dominate the conversation online.
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u/TrickNatural 10h ago
Cause some of us have been playing for much longer and we grew up knowing that challenge is a big (and normal) part of gaming. We wouldnt consider a game "hard" unless it was punishingly hard, to the point it feels unfair.
Current gens dont have a sense of that, theres a general idea that every game should be for everyone and accesibility is a major QOT feature. Something im glad not every developer adopts as a rule.
Challenge is good. But if challenge is not for you, its perfectly fine as well, theres plenty of fish in the sea. So theres that to say about modern gaming. Theres something for everyone.
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u/Fun_Masterpiece_5637 9h ago
We also grew up with games where the tutorial was the manual and there was no internet which made them artificially difficult if you misplace/don't have it. Some people see in game tutorials as hand holding because of it and I think that's kinda crazy. Games rarely lack a hard mode there's nothing stopping anyone from keeping games difficult if they want to.
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u/TrickNatural 9h ago
For sure. Back in the day (90s) i used to buy magazines that had tips, or secrets of some games cause otherwise you wouldnt figure it out yourself. And that was normal, everyone had a huge stack of gaming magazines like Gamepro. Prima guides were starting to become a big deal as well. And later on, I remember back in the late 90s/2000s when gamefaqs was huge lmao. Those were fun times.
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u/Fun_Masterpiece_5637 9h ago
I had Prince of Persia and at the end of the first level if you didn't have the list of random codes in the booklet it wouldn't let you go to the next level 😂 I remember having to go to a friend's house and write every code from his on a piece of paper for later. Miss it too fr
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u/Coveinant 10h ago
Some people see anyone doing or saying something different to their opinion (yes they are opinions) as an affront to them. Some people think "I suffered, so you should as well." But all of the groups who push these discordant discussions are, in fact, the minority of gamers. The vast majority have the same thought, do what you find fun in a game.
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u/Nearby_Struggle_0 9h ago
Difficulty is a rather strange concept, as it depends on who is playing.
Some might argue that setting a game to "easy" ruins the experience, and to a certain extent, that’s true. For some games, a challenge is an integral part(dark souls) of the experience; for others, it isn’t (nier replicant). Furthermore, not everyone has the same amount of time to invest in a game. Sometimes, it comes down to time specifically, the time required for repeated retries, which can be a significant issue depending on the length and frequency of your gaming sessions. Since the goal of playing a game is to have fun, lowering the difficulty isn't necessarily a problem; however, if difficulty is the core of the experience, then a "simple" playthrough might defeat the purpose.
There is another aspect that people often overlook: the perception of difficulty.
Just because a game is easy for *you* doesn't mean it’s easy for someone else.
Just because *you* can manage on "normal" mode doesn't mean the game is inherently easy.
For some players, "easy" mode is actually their "normal" it still presents a genuine challenge for them. Conversely, "hard" mode might remain far too easy for others.
Take the *Souls* games, for example: they are designed to be difficult if I were to clear everything on my first attempt, it would be boring.
However, a lack of difficulty settings can make a game completely inaccessible to some players.
It can be incredibly frustrating for someone to buy a game, only for it to end up gathering dust in their library. A game should offer a challenge for all, but it shouldn't be impossible for anyone.
I’ve experienced the flip side of this, too: a game with no difficulty settings became so trivial by the mid-game *Elden Ring* being a prime example that I could simply steamroll through everything without any effort, which just made it boring.
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u/WishboneOk305 10h ago
some people think all games should be for everyone. Some think that some games shouldnt be for everyone. Both sides has a point.
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u/Carcinogiffic 9h ago
"All games should be for everyone" sounds like an impossible take to defend.
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u/WishboneOk305 9h ago
its the easiest take to defend lol, more people can play the game the more sales a game can make
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u/Carcinogiffic 9h ago
Ha, well sure, I get that from the game execs standpoint but that has far less to do with games and everything to do with money.
Games are just art, and the idea that any given piece of art should appeal to the masses is bonkers to me. Like, all songs should be for everyone? All sculpturs, books, movies, paintings should appeal to everyone?
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u/GleamingBlade101 4h ago
Some people agree and some don't, but I definitely do. Really look no further than Monster Hunter Wilds for what happens when you suck all the soul out of your game to try and appeal to everyone at the same time. A game for everyone is a game for no one. I still played Wilds, I'm still cautiously optimistic about the expansion, but to me it's hard to consider it a Monster Hunter game when the very core identity of the series combat system was destroyed and numerous systems and mechanics were streamlined even further from World and Rise.
And look what the result was. Long time fans of the series had major issues with it, and Capcom made it so easy and so forgiving that the fair-weather playerbase they were trying to attract shelved it after a month because they finished everything. Wilds sold 10 million in its first month then when word of mouth got around sales fell off a cliff. Then Capcom tried playing catch-up to appease old fans with updates more geared towards us. In the end no one was truly happy with the game and even Capcom stated it's fallen short of their sales expectations.
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u/Odra_dek 10h ago
Why? Because there are simply very many very different opinions on the subject, from both ends of the spectrum and with very different layers to them.
To give you an easy example: "developers' choice". People bring up "developers choice" as an argument both for really hard games as well as for games with many different difficulty options. However, you can on the one hand respect a "choice" and still criticise it. If someone makes a terrible piece of art, intentionally, I can respect that he created what he wanted to create. Still I can be of the opinion that it is terrible.
You can "respect" that developers created a certain difficulty mode, either it being just punishingly hard or having many different options, while at the same time being of the opinion that it is not ideal.
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u/thebat85 10h ago
Games have become more mainstream. There are movies being made, games like GTA are now entertainment events. Budgets rival or exceed other entertainment mediums. So accessibility has become a topic.
In my view, it should be up to the game developer to determine how their games should be played or experience they are offering. If they want to add difficulty options, that’s cool. If they don’t, that’s cool. People can decide if they don’t want to play that game based on what is offered. Just like some movies or direction style is not for me..I won’t watch them, but I’m not going to ask the creator to change their vision for me.
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u/nak0yu 10h ago
difficulty is very subjective, and some people get a feeling of superiority when someone says they find a certain difficulty really hard, or that they play on easy. there are always gonna be those types of people (i.e., "oh you play on normal instead of extra super duper infinite hard fire difficulty? lol go play roblox or sdv since thats more your speed"), you just have to kind of learn to ignore them. everyone's hard mode is different, whether that is super evil hell mode or just the regular hard mode. it all depends on what you're used to.
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u/eruciform JRPG 9h ago
People derive validation from unhealthy things like whether or not they are able to brag about something to their friends
People also feel personally attacked when a thing they like gets any criticism, valid or not
And people fall into the dunning kruger hole on pretty much everything including gamers thinking they all have good design judgement, and just assume liking something equals good design or the reverse
Hoomans dum
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u/batshitnutcase 9h ago
Games can be hard for wildly different reasons, and everyone has different abilities, experience and preferences so any online debates about difficulty usually descend into a clusterfuck of edgelords trying to flex about how good they are at video games.
I think “getting gud” can be inherently rewarding and be like a hobby where you practice a skill and train hand-eye coordination or whatever and can interact with software in cool new ways whether it’s hitting competitive online leaderboards, defeating a boss, solving a puzzle, or some type of creative expression but you shouldn’t need external validation to feel good about yourself. It’s a fucking video game.
Nothing wrong with sharing your accomplishments with others or challenging yourself to get a trophy or something but if you’re obsessing about those things more than enjoying and interacting with the game itself it can be unhealthy. Shit’s supposed to be fun.
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u/LawfulnessDue5449 5h ago
It breaks down to social bonds honestly
There is a social bond formed when people have shared difficult experiences
Some people do not care for this and believe that the experience is limited to how the individual perceives their own experience
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u/Cleveland_Guardians 1h ago
The only points I even care to discuss on difficulty are:
-From Soft games should not have an easy mode.
-A majority of games' highest difficulties aren't fun because they aren't balanced very well.
As for why people debate it, I don't know. People can find infinite things to be passionate about and infinite things to disagree on. Humans are opinionated creatures that want to be right.
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u/Dense_Ad7115 10h ago
I really don't get the issue with this. I'm not a competitive gamer, I game to relax. If I want to just sit back and enjoy what is essentially an interactive movie, who the hell would have an issue with that? If I want something challenging I'll load up an e-sport.
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u/Adorable-Voice-3382 6h ago
Well you're always going to be able to find someone online taking issue with anything. But 99% of people don't have a problem with how strangers want to play games.
That being said, challenge can be part of the intended experience of a game so I think it could be fair in some cases to say that someone who finds a way to ignore or bypass a game's challenge is missing out on part of the game.
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u/Extreme_Swan2672 9h ago
It's about the sake of discussion. I like seeing peoples points of view that are different than mine. I don't think it's wrong for you to enjoy the games like you do. I do think it's silly to only say e sports can be challenging but I may be reading that wrong (I like games like XCOM, i rather fight good programming most of the time).
I do like extraction shooters but they also arent really good e sports.
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u/Impossible_Dog_7262 2h ago
The issue becomes that you're arguably deminishing the quality of your experience for the sake of convenience. Challenge can immerse you into a story. If you just want a movie, why not watch an actual movie? Or a playthrough?
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u/Scoobydewdoo 7h ago
Many people have a fundamental misunderstanding of what "difficulty" is. A lot of people think dying is failure, therefore they see Soulsborne games as very difficult. In reality the player is meant to die a lot in Soulsborne games as the player is constantly being put in situations that they cannot reasonably overcome...because the games withhold the information the player needs to be able to succeed. Dying to a trap that you have no way to know is there is not a lack of skill, inversely dying repeatedly until you figure out a boss' weakness is also not gaining skill. The question then is, if the game is designed to make the player die is dying really failure?
I think the games that do difficulty the best are the Metro games with Ranger mode (well except the first game). There is a bit of withholding information from the player but for the most part the difficulty comes from the recourses the player needs to overcome the obstacles in the game being rare. Missing a shot or two in a fight won't necessarily cause you to lose the fight but miss too many and attrition will cause you to run out of ammo entirely at which point you may not be able to proceed at all. That is a true failure state.
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u/Fun_Masterpiece_5637 10h ago
Mainly people with low self esteem don't like when their "skill" doesn't matter. I think the best thing devs can do is make sure there's a trophy/achievement you can't get on easy mode so purists have their proof or whatever that they're good.
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u/Extreme_Swan2672 10h ago
Because there are two types of people: those who take things personally and those who don't. I can submit my opinion in a shared discussion, only to be hit with people telling me why I am "wrong" for it, and thinking I am telling them how to play a game (I don't think I am), because I don't think video games can be "hard" or "difficult" (the circumstances of life are difficult, a video game is just a video game).
I do like when people feel strongly that a game is too hard though, it helps me buy new games. I love coming in on the difficulty conversations and getting recommendations. That's how I found Battle Brothers and Underrail.
And to your final point: because difficulty is a part of game design and philosophically allows for us to have conversations about what is and isn't good design when designing for difficulty (I don't like how Bethesda balances their games around health and damage).
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u/Mediocre_Drawing8164 9h ago
Because difficulty is a fun topic to discuss,what is this question? There are people who enjoyed to discuss that exact aspect of gaming,same goes for other stuff like the plot or animation for example
Obviously if a boss took someone 20 hours then they will discuss its difficulty as the main topic
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u/Martovich3 10h ago
Its not something that can be proven. Yes, there's "easy" games, and there's "hard" games, but what game is easiest of them all? And what criteria do you judge this on? The Lolo games are just puzzles, and there's no time or anything, so really the difficulty is just a measure of patience. Then you have the other side with games like Cheetah Men that aren't complete or Battletoads that is more playing against the poor programming. Maybe Ninja Gaiden is harder because of the birds or Zen because of the miserable angles? Or Bubble Bobble because in order to finish you need to have a friend and that is impossible?
THEN we can take into account how different people play different than others and that changes what any given person would perceive as easy or difficult.