r/politics • u/vox Vox • 5h ago

Possible Paywall This Democrat’s accountability plan has Trump fuming

https://www.vox.com/america-actually/507018/elissa-slotkin-trump-accountability-plan-democratic-majority
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u/ThirdWorldRedState 5h ago

Simply ban the presidential pardon that is the root cause here

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u/enifsieus 4h ago

The power of the pardon is constitutional, my dude - Article II Section 2:

The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States; he may require the Opinion, in writing, of the principal Officer in each of the executive Departments, upon any Subject relating to the Duties of their respective Offices, and he shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offences against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment.

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u/ProjectEmilys 3h ago

Despite being in the constitution, it is an abomination. It is a power of Kings and it should be removed.

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u/enifsieus 3h ago

It’s certainly been abused. We’re not supposed to elect people like this, and if we do we’re supposed to hold them to account.

My point there, though, is that it’s not just a majority vote in Congress to do away with it. It takes a Constitutional amendment and anyone who expects that with a low single digit majority didn’t pay attention in civics.

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u/DebentureThyme 2h ago

That's great, now present the path forward that isn't just a pipe dream, because we don't hold 2/3rds of both the House and the Senate (and absolutely will not after this election, only 1/3rd of the Senate is voted for in any given election year, and there's some deep red states we're not even coming close to winning). And then you also need 3/4ths of all state legislatures to ratify it. The other ways have the same level of high requirements.

Simply put, we aren't going to amend the constitution anytime in the near future. The most recently ratified amendment was the 27th in 1992, 34 years ago. And that was only the point at which the last of the 3/4ths needed states finally ratified - that amendment was originally passed in 1789. It took THAT LONG to get it ratified by 3/4ths of the states - it was, in fact, one of the first 12 amendments proposed by Congress, and took over 200 years to be ratified finally.

And before that one? The 26th (lowered voting from 21 to 18) passed in 1971, 55 years ago.

We're too divided to reach the needed thresholds for amendments anymore. Fuck, we barely even pass budgets and only in the most panicked way.

So the pardon power is, unfortunately, not going anywhere.

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u/Ok-Opposite2309 1h ago

Define it as not applying to crimes absent conviction. No conviction, there is nothing to pardon. 

Then, be clear that granting a pardon is not exempt from all other laws. You can not grant a pardon to obstruct justice, bribe an official or accept a bribe, etc. Add that the pardoned crime is to be considered in sentencing enhancements if found guilty. 

Further clarify that the Courts have no authority to grant immunity for crimes against the United States to any person or group. Congress can determine personal civil immunity for government agents, authority, privileges, and powers of government agents, but there is no ‘immunity’ for illegal/ unlawful acts for anyone. Congress sets laws/ rules regarding use of deadly force by agents of the government, for example, that protect that agent from prosecution or civil liability when act with in those laws/ rules. It is not a blanket immunity for the use of deadly force outside those laws/ rules whether on duty or off duty. Courts have no authority to grant it. 

Congress needs to make that clear through its structure of the courts, funding for the courts, oversight responsibility, advice and consent of appointees, investigations and impeachments. Remembering that criminal court rules don’t apply to Congressional subpoenas or impeachment investigations, there is no reason to depend on justices choosing to comply or supply accurate financial records. If impeachment fails , the records still exist as part of congressional records to use to institute reforms, to assign for prosecution, or charges of inherent contempt of congress. 

We need to expand the distribution of power in order to protect our Democracy. Too much has been handed to SCOTUS and concentrated in the Executive Branch, feeding authoritarianism and corruption. We need the political will to enact and enforce reforms. Expand SCOTUS. Expand the House. Set a deadline for territories to become states or their own nations.  Exercise vigorous oversight, institute anticorruption laws, campaign reforms.