Trump says he could be ‘last Republican president’

[u/ushaque]

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/6144713-donald-trump-republican-party-midterm-struggles/amp/

[u/Ancient_Popcorn]

They had to vote for Trump. They couldn’t fathom voting for a woman or another black person, and Kamala was both.

[u/pikachu191 → u/Ancient_Popcorn]

People forgot how unserious they were. When they voted for Biden to fix Trump's mess, they also voted for Republicans in the undercards of congressmen and Senators in that same election. This meant nothing could get done. Republicans were determined to filibuster anything because Democrats didn't have the 60 seats needed to overcome a filibuster. They did everything they could to prevent any accounting for Trump: refusing to participate in the Jan 6 commission, rationalizing every acquittal they made on Trump on technicalities and blaming Democrats. Even as they were cowering in the House chamber on that day with only a handful of Secret Service agents (for then VP Pence's protection) as a last line of defense from the angry MAGA mob.

Manchin and Sinema proved to be opportunists who watered down any Democratic legislation for their own special interests, since Biden had to have their votes to get anything done. Meanwhile Democrats wanted Biden out (there were stories that the establishment never wanted him in the first place), even while admitting he did a good job getting the US to recover from covid-19, but still too old (Bernie Sanders is older, and so is Nancy Pelosi). Biden got mocked for being old and falling off his bike (without breaking any ribs or other bones) and voters decided let's bring back the con artist of a reality TV host who's only 3 years younger and uses a golf cart playing golf (real matches have the competitors walk the entirety of the course).

[u/gtobiast13 → u/pikachu191]

People look at me weird when I say democrats functionally lost 2020 even while winning. 

2020 should have been a blowout election season for dems. Between the botched Covid response, economy problems, general chaos, and mounting legal issues for the Trump admin, any competent opposition should have won the White House and both chambers with a super majority, it should have been the blowout of the century. 

Sure, statistically the electoral college victory was pretty solidly in bidens favor, but somehow, after all of that, 12 million more people came out to vote for Trump than in 2016. By no means was it a landslide in presidential election history. Not to mention, dems spent almost double the amount of campaign money on Biden than Trump got from republicans and they still only won by slim margins. 

On top of that, the senate was effectively “won” by the 1 vote the VP gets. The dems lost 14 seats in the house and just clung to a majority, and dems lost another governor seat giving republicans a 2 seat lead. 

Dems came to fight with a loaded m16 against an opponent bleeding out with a shiv and they still got sliced and diced and won by the slimmest margins. 

I hate saying this but the people really made their voices heard that cycle. They weren’t happy with trump, but they really didn’t want to alter course either. 

[u/100LimeJuice → u/gtobiast13]

Biden's electoral college victory was not pretty solid. As NPR's Domenico Montanaro has put it, "just 44,000 votes in Georgia, Arizona and Wisconsin separated Biden and Trump from a tie in the Electoral College." Source NPR: https://www.npr.org/2020/12/02/940689086/narrow-wins-in-these-key-states-powered-biden-to-the-presidency

[u/Show_Me_Your_Cubes → u/100LimeJuice]

It's pretty solid when you consider that the Trump admin but a lot of effort into cheating the election, and still lost

[u/guamisc → u/gtobiast13]

They weren’t happy with trump, but they really didn’t want to alter course either

They don't want status quo Democrats. It's why Trump was elected in the first place. We keep offering them the same bland, uninspiring gruel.

[u/Zuwxiv → u/guamisc]

Biden won the primary by a landslide. Absolutely walloped everyone else. Either progressives don't show up for primaries, or they just aren't as popular as they think they are. And I'm a progressive. (I voted for Warren in the 2020 primary.)

Democrats "keep offering" the candidate who wins the primary. That's where people need to focus if they want "to be offered" better candidates in November.

[u/pikachu191 → u/Zuwxiv]

Either progressives don't show up for primaries, or they just aren't as popular as they think they are.

I think it's the latter. The nature of the electoral college means you have to appeal to "purple" states. Purple states don't care about progressive issues as much as they do with so-called "everyday" issues. Progressive darlings like AOC or Bernie Sanders exist in states or districts which heavily favor Democrats anyways. What the Democratic establishment forgot or underestimated was the difficulty of replicating the turnout of 2020 in 2024. They ignored the precedent set when LBJ was forced out by his own party in a similar fashion to Biden. The result was a victory by Nixon, who appealed that campaign season to "law and order" and a "silent majority" (of white people) in a similar fashion to how GOP politicians appeal to campaign against "wokeness" and "DEI"; part of the "southern strategy" to peel away Democrats in the South who were alienated by LBJ signing the Civil Rights Act of 1965 (predicted by LBJ). They assumed that it would be easy to kick Biden to the curb, plug in a replacement candidate, and replicate Biden's appeal in purple states.

[u/Zuwxiv → u/pikachu191]

The nature of the electoral college means you have to appeal to "purple" states.

Well, the electoral college definitely is fucked and anti-democratic today. And functionally, the election is decided by the swing states. But it gets a bit tricky.

There's a decent argument that you win swing states not by appealing to swing voters, but by increasing your base's turnout. McCain in 2008 defended Obama from someone accusing him of being a Muslim or anti-American. You're not going to see that today. Politics is disturbingly polarized; true swing voters are rarer to find. Is there someone who voted for Trump in 2016, 2020, and 2024, but is somehow open to a Democrat next month? ... Sure. I bet you can find someone who voted Trump / Biden / Trump, or even Hillary / Trump / Kamala.

But you know what's a whole lot easier? Getting some of the 30+% of eligible voters who already agree with you but just don't bother to show up to vote.

Maybe there's 100,000 people in Virginia who would vote for Trump, but with an enormous amount of work, could be convinced to vote for Bernie Sanders. But 30% of eligible voters didn't vote at all. If you want to find 100,000 voters, it's all kinds of easier to find the ones who are already on your side and convince them to spend 10 minutes voting.

I was a swing voter in the 2000s. But I can't see that now. "Democrats are satanists hell-bent on destroying America and harming your children" is a mainstream Republican viewpoint. That used to be whacko nonsense that prominent Republicans shot down, even in election season. And it goes both ways - "MAGA republicans are fascist traitors hellbent on destroying American democratic institutions" is also a prominent leftist viewpoint. (I'd say that one is true.) There's less room than ever for purple, so there's pretty good merit to the argument that appealing to Iowa has nothing to do with middle-ground policies, and everything to do with turnout and maybe state-specific issues like corn subsidies.

Which, to be fair, is probably what you were getting at anyway.

[u/Murky-Relation481 → u/Zuwxiv]

I mean get out the vote campaigns have been huge, but it just doesn't yield results. Young people are fundamentally disengaged from politics and have been for decades, and it will continue to get worse as every generation grows a slightly larger and larger cohort of parents who don't do politics and as such their kids wont do it either.

I mean I see the logic of trying to sway active voters who vote for the other side but might be considering going a different direction when you look at how much money has been thrown into get out the vote stuff with hardly any results.

[u/guamisc → u/Murky-Relation481]

I mean get out the vote campaigns have been huge, but it just doesn't yield results. Young people are fundamentally disengaged from politics and have been for decades, and it will continue to get worse as every generation grows a slightly larger and larger cohort of parents who don't do politics and as such their kids wont do it either.

Have you tried not offering insipid, uninspired incremental nonsense that's led to the resurgent populist and fascist right wing because people are tired of useless dreck?

Or nah?

[u/Zuwxiv → u/Murky-Relation481]

how much money has been thrown into get out the vote stuff with hardly any results.

Every non-incumbent Democratic president elected in a generation has done so with huge get-out-the-vote campaigns: Obama 2008 and Biden 2020. (The only one left is Obama 2012 as a popular incumbent.)

Yes, there's a huge problem with young people voting. But when they do, they win. The fact that it's hard to get people to vote doesn't change that the winning strategy is getting them to.

And again, if you want X votes, it's easier to get them from the apathetic than from people ideologically opposed to you, somewhat.

[u/Murky-Relation481 → u/Zuwxiv]

I wasn't trying to compare them as equal strategies just saying that get out the vote doesn't work well when you don't have an already existing strong desire for change, and at that point the reason for more people voting is going to be a lot murkier. Did Obama's get out the vote campaign yield large results due to the economic situation and Bush or was it purely because it put in more hard work than say campaigns in 2016 or 2024?

The problem is a calm status quo drives apathy because people are more willing to think about how good things are vs. how bad things could get, that is just a natural stress avoidance thing. So when you have 8 years of relatively good times under Obama its a lot harder to get people motivated than when they're actively suffering like in 2008 and and 2020.

[u/pikachu191 → u/Zuwxiv]

Maybe there's 100,000 people in Virginia who would vote for Trump, but with an enormous amount of work, could be convinced to vote for Bernie Sanders.

I would say Virginia is safely blue right now, considering I'm from Northern Virginia. There's a large contingent of red in the countryside, especially towards the Shenandoah and Blue Ridge mountains. But grass can't vote. And of course, DOGE affecting a lot of federal workers , which MAGA forgot live in Virginia. Then there's the MAGA candidate, Winsome-Sears, they pushed out to run for governor the other year. Aka Miss "I am speaking". Needless to say, she lost in a landslide to Spanberger. Even the pastor's wife at my church, who is very (and often inappropriately) vocal about MAGA politics kept her mouth shut about Democrats (for a while).

[u/inuvash255 → u/Zuwxiv]

That's not exactly how that time felt.

Prior to Super Tuesday, there was a wide, wide field. Biden wasn't doing particularly great, and Bernie had the plurality.

Just before ST, like days, the news was blasting about how if every Dem who wasn't Bernie or Biden dropped out, Biden would be winning 65-35. They pretty much all did. Warren dropped shortly after, noncommittally.

[u/necrosxiaoban → u/inuvash255]

Buttigieg dropping out when he did, and the votes that went to Biden because of it, versus Warren holding on and splitting the progressive vote with Bernie -- the timing of it all was definitely what swung it to Biden.

If Buttigieg had stayed in longer, or had Warren had dropped out when Buttigieg did, it could have been a much closer result.

[u/IllllIIIllllIl → u/necrosxiaoban]

I also think it isn’t terribly more psychologically complex for the average Dem voter than Biden representing a continued Obama era, which is still seen as an optimistic hope-filled presidency after the Bush era. It’s why despite showing no interest or political enthusiasm for it, Michelle Obama was a major name being fronted in summer 2024 before Kamala was given the candidacy, with varying degrees of seriousness.

[u/Galxloni2 → u/necrosxiaoban]

Conveniently leaving out bloomberg who pulled exclusively from biden vs Warren who also pulled primarily from Biden

[u/necrosxiaoban → u/Galxloni2]

I had to look that one up, looks like Bloomberg didn't enter until Super Tuesday, which is probably why I didn't remember him. That and he evidently didn't have much impact.

Also a shout-out to Amy Klobuchar who also had dropped out with Buttigieg, tho her #s were much smaller.

[u/Galxloni2 → u/necrosxiaoban]

Bloomberg had an almost identical vote total to Warren

[u/Murky-Relation481 → u/inuvash255]

I mean yah, there was a lot of candidates with the same general platform as Biden, at the end of the day the calculus amongst campaigns was "we're not going to win on our own and this will get drawn out, but if the majority of us as a platform is popular lets go with the person we think has the best brand recognition" and that was Biden. Also Sanders was not as particularly novel in 2020 as in 2016 since he was basically able to dictate the party platform to a large degree after the backlash to how his primary was handled in 2016 in an attempt to bring more potential voters who hadn't been excited about the party until Sanders into the fold.

[u/Galxloni2 → u/inuvash255]

You guys always make the same bad argument. Your entire argument relies on Bernie "deserving" to win with 30% of the vote because the 70% who has the same platform were splitting the rest of the vote

[u/inuvash255 → u/Galxloni2]

I'm not even making an argument. I'm not even saying it's unfair.

That's just what happened. They consolidated around Biden.

[u/Galxloni2 → u/inuvash255]

you very obviously were making an arument. dont try and pretend you weren't

[u/guamisc → u/Galxloni2]

The argument is that the party and primary voters keep putting up bad choices who keep letting shittier and shittier Republicans win.

[u/teplightyear → u/Zuwxiv]

Kamala didn't win any primaries.

[u/Zuwxiv → u/teplightyear]

You might want to re-read the comment thread and see what year everyone was talking about.

Even if you want to change the topic to other years else, it shouldn't need to be explained to you why 2024 was an exceptional circumstance. It's exactly what would have happened if Biden had been incapacitated. (Which arguably is basically what happened anyway.) "They won the primary" is true of every modern democratic primary, anyway.

Edit: The old reply-and-then-block, signature move of the thinnest skin around. Makes me wonder if they're a bot.

[u/teplightyear → u/Zuwxiv]

You said "Democrats "keep offering" the candidate who wins the primary." I showed an instance where that wasn't true. Point/counterpoint. I read the thread just fine.

Also, did Biden die? No. Did he resign the office of President? No. Was the 25th amendment invoked? No. He was alive, had a bad debate, and the DNC establishment decided without any input from the electorate that Kamala should be the candidate instead. It was a tremendous break from how our leaders are chosen.

[u/MountainMan2_ → u/Zuwxiv]

Did you... Pay any attention to the 2020 primaries? The corporate Dems cleared the field for Biden and left a spoiler in warren on the progressive side to ensure Bernie didn't win. Then, conservative ass south Carolina voted Biden and the entire establishment told everyone to go home. At the same time, Republicans put 30 times the pressure on Bernie as they did Biden throughout the dem primary, and the Russian investigation came back that they WERE MEDDLING in 2016 but the corporate Dems hushed it immediately.

The level of pressure corporate Dems and Republicans put on the progressives to shut us up is incredible. If they treated us like part of the same damn party as the corporate Dems instead of literally a higher priority target than the Republicans, we'd have a hundred house seats. Don't pretend like this is all on us for losing. We have tried the corporate option. We have tried neoliberalism. It got us trump. The fact donors and party insiders are still hemming and hawing over whether to support progressives after 2020 signals a party that is more interested in being the minority in a dictatorship than sticking their neck out and pushing something new. Remember, MLK said his biggest opponent in the civil rights movement was the complacent voter. The one who thought that Jim crow was wrong but wasn't going to vote about it. At some point dem leadership needs to stop trying to be the perfect centrist and start pushing a narrative. That's what the Dems refuse to do and it's why the Republicans always have the edge. I guarantee you, 8 years ago not a single Republican could name a trans person in sports, and that shit pushed probably 10 million votes in 2024. The corporate Dems took that chance to introduce new issues and spent it finding the scientifically most average position possible until it was too late to actually stand for anything. They need to find common ground with their own party or get out of the way, because the progressives are the only side pushing new issues at all anymore. You can't argue numbers when you don't even have a platform beyond the status quo, that's like arguing about the decorations on the 53rd story of a skyscraper that's currently a parking lot.

[u/Zuwxiv → u/MountainMan2_]

Did you... Pay any attention to the 2020 primaries? The corporate Dems cleared the field for Biden and left a spoiler in warren on the progressive side to ensure Bernie didn't win

God, I'm sick of these "secret shadow people rigged the primary." It's just liberal Qanon.

In the 2020 primary, Biden got a majority of votes. Biden had almost twice as many votes as Bernie Sanders. Biden got more than 1.5 times as many votes as Sanders and Warren combined. This schtick got old in 2017. People didn't show up to vote for Bernie.

I don't know how you reconcile supporting democracy and having a huge problem that Biden, who got >50% of overall votes in the primary, won the primary. If it was Biden 37%, Bernie 35%, Warren 28% then you'd have a point. But Bernie just flat out won a majority of votes. Nobody stopped people from voting for Sanders (or Warren, for that matter).

There's a million things you can blame Democratic leadership for, but "Biden was genuinely more popular and got far more votes than everyone else, so he was our candidate" is not one of them.

Remember, MLK said his biggest opponent in the civil rights movement was the complacent voter. The one who thought that Jim crow was wrong but wasn't going to vote about it.

This is one of my favorite MLK quotes, so I think it's worth being specific. It wasn't about complacent voters. It was white moderates who agree with the principle, but find issue with the time or methods of seeking justice. Letter from a Birmingham Jail:

I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro’s great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White citizens’ “Councilor” or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate who is more devoted to “order” than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says “I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can’t agree with your methods of direst action” who paternistically feels that he can set the timetable for another man’s freedom; who lives by the myth of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a “more convenient season.” Shallow understanding from people of good will is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection.

Changing gears: The reason Dems ran away from trans women in sports is because it's broadly unpopular with the population, including Democrats. Maybe "discretion is the better part of valor," and Democrats can pull an Obama on same sex marriage: Oppose it when running for office, but once you have power, work to protect rights.

Or maybe people should get more comfortable with holding an unpopular opinion when they believe it is just and right.

the progressives are the only side pushing new issues at all anymore.

100% agreed.

[u/Galxloni2 → u/MountainMan2_]

You clearly do not remember that primary clearly at all, or you just were never paying attention in the first place

[u/guamisc → u/MountainMan2_]

The level of pressure corporate Dems and Republicans put on the progressives to shut us up is incredible.

It's incredible victim blaming. Just amazing the level of bullshit that gets flung for people that refuse to introspect at all.

No, it's the children who are wrong apparently.

[u/teplightyear → u/guamisc]

Even more important: they didn't want a candidate foisted on them by the DNC without a primary. We do primaries in this country. We don't let the party heads pick the candidate. That was 100% of the reason Kamala lost.

[u/guamisc → u/teplightyear]

No it wasn't. It was a reason, not the reason.

The reason, if there is one, is that Democrats keep trying to get back to the status quo everyone fucking hates.

[u/wintersmith1970 → u/gtobiast13]

It was obvious that prior to Covid, the Democratic party wasn't expecting to win the presidential election, and were just trying to stifle any progressive candidates from getting the nomination. If Trump had properly handled the outbreak and the protests around the police he wouldn't have lost.

[u/Key_Inevitable_2104 → u/wintersmith1970]

I agree.

[u/Gekokapowco → u/gtobiast13]

2020 was really the "51% ice cream and a blowjob, 49% painful torturous death for yourself and everyone you know" voter split

the choice should have been extremely obvious but people vote against their own interests, and the stupidity x propaganda injection is simply too strong to overcome

[u/MoonBatsRule → u/gtobiast13]

Plenty of division was sowed prior to the 2020 election. Primarily:

• "Masks are oppression unless I am trying to hide my identity when I invade the capitol!"
• "We should have been like Sweden and just given everyone herd immunity!"
• "We should have let the kids get infected, they would have been fine, and if their grandparents who take care of them die, well, that's a black thang!"
• "Those people who died didn't die from COVID. They died from things like heart and lung failure, and just happened to have COVID at the time!"
• "It was a lab leak!"
• "Ivermectin! The government is stopping me from using horse medicine!"
• "I'm a pureblood, I will never get the vaccine. In search of single white unvaccinated female".

A lot of people took the side of the morons. Yeah, some of the stuff was overblown in retrospect. Masking outdoors was dumb - but given the uncertainty of the disease, why not err on the side of caution a bit?

[u/No_Fairweathers → u/gtobiast13]

Well when you factor in Trump was probably right about voter fraud in 2020... FOR him, the results make more sense that they weren't a blow out.

He's pissed that he cheated and still lost. That's why he can't get over it.

[u/tomphammer → u/gtobiast13]

No one was excited about Biden. There were maybe a tiny minority of people who managed to deluded themselves into thinking they were, but he was a choice in resignation.

With a candidate that amounted to a heavy sigh and “alright” at the top of the ticket, why would Dems win down ballot races?

They never had a shot

[u/brundlfly → u/gtobiast13]

Behold, the power of the media to sway opinion. Other reasons too, but large swaths of the country don't even look at anything but Fox.

[u/IDreamOfLoveLost → u/pikachu191]

Even as they were cowering in the House chamber on that day with only a handful of Secret Service agents (for then VP Pence's protection) as a last line of defense from the angry MAGA mob.

Let's be real. Even if several Republican reps had been literally dragged out in front of congress and lynched by the J6 attackers, Republicans would still be carrying water for Donald right now.

[u/padizzledonk → u/pikachu191]

Youre kind of retconning things here a little

I think you should go back and watch Bidens debate with trump and remember how bad it was

Would i rather a braindead biden right now? Yeah, no question, but he had absolutely 0 chance of winning after that debate, it was horrendous and he came off as an addled and confused old man

There are a LOT of things we can talk about that were ridiculous and unfair, as well as the absolute disaster that was crowning/annointing Harris without a primary- a quite bad politician that was nothing but an empty suit and kind of stood for both nothing and everything-- again, id be thrilled if she were president right now instead of Trump, that choice was obvious then and its even moreso now in retrospect-- but not Bidens prospects for reelection, or his poor performance or optics and realities around his age-- thats all legitimate and real. He was a terrible communicator

[u/mittenedkittens → u/padizzledonk]

I agree, he came off as a confused old man. But, the part I don’t understand is how people saw Trump’s performance as any different. He was just as old as Biden but made far less sense.

[u/Iplaymeinreallife → u/mittenedkittens]

For some reason, the public only requires near perfection of the candidates perceived as more to the left or more progressive. Conservative, regressive and authoritarian candidates only need to show up.

[u/padizzledonk → u/mittenedkittens]

But, the part I don’t understand is how people saw Trump’s performance as any different.

OH I AGREE on that, however, that Biden looked SO bad even in comparison to the mess that Trump was is really a statement on just how fucking bad his performance was in that debate. Trump was so fucking nuts and said so many outrageous things in that debate that it was astonishing that he didnt hardly say anything about like 90% of it and the things he did manage to catch out if the air and try to address he just failed utterly at.

I ate downvotes for a solid month after that debate saying he needs to step aside lol

The entire debate was one if the most embarrassing things for this country that ive ever witnessed tbh---I left it feeling like we are fucked and are so lost as a country and we have no hope here if these 2 people are the best we can put forward, and a bit sad that Biden apparently surrounded and isolated himself with such sychophants that no one told him the truth. Really? Nobody close to him had the compassion to tell that man he needed to hang it up and retreat gracefully into history?

Everyone wants to blame Harris and the DNC/Establishment for 2024 but really Biden and his team around him that last year hold the lions share of the blame imo.

[u/mr-ron → u/padizzledonk]

Everyone wants to blame Harris and the DNC/Establishment for 2024 but really Biden and his team around him that last year hold the lions share of the blame imo.

This. Biden will unfortunately go down as one of the weakest presidents in context because he blew the 2024 election so badly.

[u/HowTheyGetcha → u/padizzledonk]

"They're eating our cats and dogs"

"No plan, but concepts of a plan"

Voters: "I don't know about this Biden guy. Let's bring back the sprightly young man who caused 100,000 unnecessary COVID deaths and a $12B taxpayer bailout from a pointless war against allies. Sure over a dozen Nobel Prize-winning economists penned a letter warning against his tariff plan, and nearly a dozen generals and admirals warned against his commanding the military... but Biden was off his game."

Sorry, no, I have no sympathy for the voters who did this to America.

Edit: Adjudicated rapist, 34x convicted felon fraudster, indicted and arraigned for crimes against America, twice-impeached... I mean pick any obvious disqualifier.

[u/fluffy_bunny_87 → u/padizzledonk]

I really wish Harris would have said something to put herself apart from Biden. At times it felt like she was trying to say "I agree with literally everything Biden did! I am basically Biden but younger!" and idk if that was a strategy assuming that if Biden had seemed younger in the debate he would have been able to beat Trump again so hay let's just have Harris say that's what she is or what but it did not land well.

I also wish Dem candidate at that level would admit that issues are complicated instead of just avoiding them. There was an abortion question at one point asked of her that alluded to "dems want to allow post birth abortions" and she just danced around it... instead of just being honest and saying something to the effect of "biology and medicine is really complicated and I don't think we can legislate for every possibility. Instead of making something illegal and then trying to legislate every exception I believe that decision should be left up to the medical professionals that are far more qualified to make that call than I am."

[u/padizzledonk → u/fluffy_bunny_87]

Seperate reply to just pull this out specifically because i agree a 100% and want to share a relevent clip-

I also wish Dem candidate at that level would admit that issues are complicated instead of just avoiding them. There was an abortion question at one point asked of her that alluded to "dems want to allow post birth abortions" and she just danced around it...

https://youtube.com/shorts/akhBpxN_TV0?is=HtAGCozVcMMYbXxb

This. We need a lot more of this and actual real people running for office

She answered like that because SHES NOT A REAL PERSON, shes a construct lol, i remember that moment and it was incredible to me that she answered like that.

[u/padizzledonk → u/fluffy_bunny_87]

I think it wouldve helped, maybe, the problem is that she would have to have been a different person with convictions and agency to have dont that

I dont know her (obviously lol) im sure there is a real actual person in there somewhere, but her as a politician is a total construct imo, none of it is real, or i should say very very little of it because there were little flashes of authenticity here and there very early on.

I think maybe, maybe who she was in the first 2 weeks of that campaign may have been the real her, maybe. But once the consultancy class got to her she went right back to "im an empty vessel, fill me with whatever you think will work"-- Like who the fuck goes from who she was in her failed 2020 run, to who she was in the very beginning of her campaign to eventually campaigning with Liz Cheney? Lol-- Like-- thats a person with no real convictions or driving ethos imo

Everyone says it was a mistake for her to not do the longform podcast circut like rogan et al, but real talk, i think that was absolutely the right decision for her because there was absolutely 0 chance she could keep it together for 2, 3 hours and come off as a genuine authentic person, you can word salad yourself through a 5 or 10 or even 20m interview but you cant do that for hours lol

Again- i would be fucking thrilled if she were the president right now instead of Trump, i voted for her and id do it again given the same choice, but man, i wish there was a primary, even a snap, halfassed compressed one with only the delegates with some input from the public, if there was i can almost guarantee it wouldnt have been Harris. And fucking shame on everyone else in the Party for not having the balls to stand up and put themselves out there- everyone just stepped aside out of some fucking stupid ass "its her turn" stupidness

Sorry that was so long lol

[u/No-Consideration8862 → u/pikachu191]

American politics is so damn weird

[u/babaqewsawwwce → u/pikachu191]

Sounds like the two party system is a problem.

[u/Prototype3120 → u/Ancient_Popcorn]

I blame the apathetic non-voters equally to the worst of the Trump voters. I know a few people who didn't vote, despite them claiming to hate Trump, because they didn't see the point. I tried to explain that we know exactly how many people will vote for Trump, his base isn't growing, by not voting you are basically voting for Trump. They called me stupid and said that Trump will lose. I don't talk to them anymore.

[u/frequenZphaZe → u/Prototype3120]

if you blame the apathetic voters, then you also blame the dncc with the billion dollar war chest for failing to motivate voters too, correct?

[u/Prototype3120 → u/frequenZphaZe]

Yes, I do. I have no kind words for current democratic party leadership and I think Chuck Schumer is a ghoul surpressing any sort of progress in this party. I don't think that is any excuse not to vote, however.

[u/_slagwire → u/Ancient_Popcorn]

And also Indian! Having influences from multiple identities and cultures all in one person? Like some kind of melting pot? Inconceivable!

[u/Mobb_Barley → u/_slagwire]

Remember how confused they all were by her biracialness? “She claimed she is black but now she claims she is Indian? WHICH ONE IS IT KAMALA????”

[u/_slagwire → u/Mobb_Barley]

If only JD knew his own children were biracial and could've helped clear up the confusion. But alas, the technology just wasn't there!

[u/dechets-de-mariage → u/_slagwire]

“Give me your tired, your poor…”

Oh wait, that’s all of us already here.

[u/Outrageous_Reach_695 → u/_slagwire]

Inconceivable
Well, we aren't currently involved in a land war in Asia, at least ...

[u/Undead-Chipmunk → u/Ancient_Popcorn]

It's not just that.

It was also that Kamala was an establishment candidate that few people actually liked or wanted.

She was like Hillary but worse, and it was after Biden had to be a stubborn ass about not running again.

Trump winning again was basically for many people from feeling disillusioned from the DNC controlling the primary process undemocratically.

[u/truthiness- → u/Undead-Chipmunk]

Well, they really showed all of us, didn’t they!

[u/Undead-Chipmunk → u/truthiness-]

Time will tell. In my heart, I feel that this era of cynicism will pass and will be remembered as a cynical time.

[u/IzK → u/Ancient_Popcorn]

Are we pretending that Harris wasn't a terrible candidate regardless of her race or gender?

[u/Zealousid_Eyedeal → u/IzK]

It's the excuse for people to be casually racist and sexist by suggesting that's why she failed.

[u/BoyWhoSoldTheWorld → u/IzK]

Definitely this. She would flip flop on answers and just gave generic political consultant answers written to appeal to the middle; I.e. no actual conviction.

She always was given a super short runway by her own party, and namely Biden for not stepping down like he loosely promised America he would when he initially ran.

Biden should have accepted he was one and done, and lined up a proper democratic primary so the democratic voters could have had a say in their next candidate. But when the moment finally came, The boomer couldn’t relinquish power and set off a chain of events that damaged US politics and the entire world.

Biden had a great presidency but he is just another example of an old boomer who won’t move out of the way for the next generation. Leaving the rest of us to pick up the pieces of their selfish entitlement.

[u/simplefactothematter → u/BoyWhoSoldTheWorld]

Yeah her refusal to distinguish herself from Biden even a little bit on the issue of Palestine when many voters said this was a breaking point for them even ahead of the nomination. Not to mention adopting the right wing framing of issues relating to the border and claiming we need to have the “most lethal military in the world”. The Democratic Party really showed they learned nothing from their failed attempt to force Hillary down our throats in 2016. Will they learn anything this time around? It’s not seeming like it so far

[u/IzK → u/BoyWhoSoldTheWorld]

Agreed.

[u/IzK → u/[deleted]]

At worst we'd be in a similar place. There's a fair chance we'd be better off. If she gets the nomination in 28 I'm pretty sure that the Democrats are trying to unalive their party. No way she wins the nomination.

[u/extraneouspanthers → u/IzK]

It happens every time Harris is brought up, it’s probably just astroturfing. Everyone knows she was garbage

[u/IzK → u/[deleted]]

Didn't say that she was worse than Trump, did I? Read what I said, not what you wish I had said.

[u/Juno-Seto → u/IzK]

Yeah! And all of America properly judged her and her politics with no bias and decided Donald Trump was better fit to lead the United States!

[u/sneakysnake1111 → u/Juno-Seto]

decided Donald Trump was better fit to lead the United States

And that was really stupid of you guys. But to be honest, i've liked what the US has done. Now, I don't have any american products in my house and I've been boycotting the entire country rather easily. It's not even hard now.

and I no longer have to pretend you guys have decent people, especially in your military.

[u/IzK → u/Juno-Seto]

Complain to the folks who sat out. Theyre the ones who cost her the election. It was more on the far left than it ever was MAGA, she could've been the second coming of Jesus and they would've re-elected Trump.

[u/mmechtch → u/IzK]

Worst then Trump? Really? Not in any way perfect of course but I cannot fathom picking Trump over an objectively normal person

[u/IzK → u/mmechtch]

Where did i say she was worse than Trump? That's an impossible bar to clear.

[u/redwing180 → u/Ancient_Popcorn]

It was almost as if they only got their information from Fox News and Facebook which was doing such a marvelous job on painting an accurate picture of the state of America. By replaying the same video of Haitian migrants over and over for four years while talking about trans athletes. They forgot how good things were getting compared to where Biden started because of Trump‘s mess and they were fed a steady diet of fear and anger. Now here we are with them building concentration camps like alligator Auschwitz.

[u/FilOfTheFuture90 → u/Ancient_Popcorn]

And she laughed weird.

[u/This_isR2Me → u/Ancient_Popcorn]

way to objectify her, she had plenty wrong with her candidacy and campaign beside the fact she's a black woman. did you forget we already had a black president? memory of a goldfish.

[u/DerDienstVomTrottel → u/Ancient_Popcorn]

Kamala was primarily godawful

[u/PDXGuy33333 → u/Ancient_Popcorn]

I keep saying this re 2028 and people do not listen. Ordinarily intelligent political operatives within the Democratic Party STILL talk about her as the potential 2028 nominee. She'd be a great president, but she can't get elected and that's all there is to it.

[u/mikezer0 → u/Ancient_Popcorn]

Or ya know just voting in general. A million reasons why not. Well here is one significant reason why they should have. 

[u/tie_me_down_tomorrow → u/Ancient_Popcorn]

Coworker said to me “I wasn’t going to vote for someone with an obnoxious laugh”

[u/jellis333 → u/Ancient_Popcorn]

Very true . I voted for her but I had a feeling America would not elect a woman yet . So strategically the democrats help elect Trump no question about it.

[u/Tabris92 → u/Ancient_Popcorn]

for some people its all about just voting for "their team" not even understanding policy or nothin. americans treat politics like sports team. Theyll root for them just because "well my pa was a republican and i am too"