The story of King Udena in the Dhammapada commentary, as translated by Burlingame, has a possible mistranslation that I believe may illustrate an interesting feature of Pali grammar or style.

 Absolutives should have the same agent as the main verb of a sentence. However I believe it's possible for a clause nested within a complex sentence to have a different agent governed by a participle. In such cases, the agent can change within the course of a sentence. I believe failure to recognize this has caused the problematic interpretation illustrated below.

 If this is right, it's a good idea if the correction is incorporated into new translations or revisions of old ones.

 Here's the Pali:

(The context is that a dog raised by a herdsman has befriended a Paccekabuddha. The Herdsman sends the dog to get the Paccekabuddha.)

 so [i.e. the dog] ekavacanen'eva [of the herdsman] pakkhanditvā, sāmikassa gacchapothana-bhūmipothanaṭṭhāne tikkhattuṃ bhussitvā, tena saddena vāḷamigānaṃ palātabhāvaṃ ñatvā,

 pāto'va sarīrapaṭijagganaṃ katvā paṇṇasālaṃ pavisitvā nisinnassa paccekabuddhassa vasanaṭṭhānaṃ gantvā paṇṇasāladvāre tikkhattuṃ bhussitvā attano āgatabhāvaṃ jānāpetvā ekamante nipajjati

 ( PTS pp. 171–172; DPR permalink https://www.digitalpalireader.online/_dprhtml/index.html?loc=k.1.0.0.2.0.0.a&para=12 )

 Burlingame’s translation is as follows:

 At the mere word of the herdsman the dog started off. Where he had seen his master stop and strike bushes and ground, the dog also stopped and barked three times; and when he was sure that his barking had frightened away the wild beasts, he went on.

 Early in the morning, having attended to nature’s needs, he [still the dog] entered the hut of leaves and grass, went to the place where the Paccekabuddha sat, barked three times by way of announcing his arrival, and then lay down at one side.

(  https://ancient-buddhist-texts.net/English-Texts/Buddhist-Legends/index.htm 

Burlingame, Buddhist Legends, Part 1, p. 254; see first section in Appamādavaggo)

The above translation gets tangled in term of the timeline, and Burlingame is at a loss for how to explain the locative paṇṇasāladvāre since he has already put the dog inside the  hut of leaves.

 Instead perhaps translate the second part like this (rough translation, just to convey the idea):

 (The dog) having gone to the place where the Paccekabuddha sat (who, prior to sitting, had attended to his bodily needs early in the morning and entered his hut of leaves and grass), barked three times at the door of the hut of leaves and grass by way of announcing his arrival, and then lay down at one side.

 In other words, the Paccekabuddha is the one who has done the attending to bodily needs and the entering of the hut prior to sitting down. The dog is outside the hut, barking by the doorway.

This second agent of a subset of the absolutives in the sentence is possible by virtue of the verbal force of the participle nissinnassa. So the absolutives katvā and pavisitvā have the Paccekabuddha as their agent, even though they are embedded as part of a genitive noun phrase within a larger sentence in which the dog is the agent.

 If I'm right, the embedding looks like this, with the genitive noun phrase in bold:

 so [the dog] ekavacanen' eva [of the herdsman] pakkhanditvā, sāmikassa gacchapothana-bhūmipothanaṭṭhāne tikkhattuṃ bhussitvā, tena saddena vāḷamigānaṃ palātabhāvaṃ ñatvā, pāto'va sarīrapaṭijagganaṃ katvā paṇṇasālaṃ pavisitvā nisinnassa paccekabuddhassa vasanaṭṭhānaṃ gantvā paṇṇasāladvāre tikkhattuṃ bhussitvā attano āgatabhāvaṃ jānāpetvā ekamante nipajjati

 The dog does the barking (bhussitvā), the knowing (ñatvā), the going (gantvā) and lies down (nipajjati)

 The Paccekabuddha does the attending to bodily chores (katvā) and the entering of the hut (pavisitvā) prior to being seated (nisinnassa).

Doing it this way resolves the timeline and allows the word paṇṇasāladvāre to make sense.

Am I missing anything here?

 (No generative AI was used in preparing this. I'd rather ask people)

Namo vo.

I had some trouble finding the etymology of the name of the Magadhan king, Bimbisāra. I tried wiktionary and dpdict.net, and could not find a derivation given. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Thank you!

I have never read a word in Pali.

But I wanted to translate "To our eternity" to Pali and I used an online tool. I got this

තො ඔඋර් එතෙර්නිත්‍ය්

Is this correct? Thanks in advance.

Pretty new to Pali - following Warder's grammar at the moment - so maybe there's something I'm missing, but it would appear that having particular prefixes on a verb root changes the conjugation thereof: vadati is 1st conjugation but abhivādeti is 7th.

I am curious if there is any sort of rhyme or reason to the changing of a conjugation such as this? As I say, being new, I wouldn't be surprised if there's something I'm missing here. Is there perhaps a form such as abhivadati that means something slightly different to abhivādeti?

Any info appreciated! Thanks!

Hello. The dictionary says meti can be instrumental case. All internet translations have "meti" as "is mine"; except for Suddhaso's "as me". Personally, I prefer "with me", i.e, "in association with me". Is this grammatically acceptable? Thank you

me 1 pron. myself; me (object) ►

me 2 pron. by me ►

me 3 pron. to me; for me ►

me 4 pron. from me ►

me 5 pron. my; mine ►

me 6 pron. when I; since I ►

I don't know whether it is the right place but did anyone has a copy of A. P. Buddhadatta and A. K. Warder (ed.): Mohavicchedanī Abhidhamma-mātikatthavaṇṇanā by Kassapatthera of Cola, xxvii, 384 pp. London: Luzac & Co. Ltd. for the Pali Text Society, 1961. A£4 4s.

https://doi.org/10.1017/S0041977X00064880

As you know pali was primarily used in the purpose of buddhism specifically theravada but was that also used for hindu scriptures or texts??????

Current progress: 12 lessons complete from the book "An Elementary Pāḷi course" by Narad Thera

Last year's run of the course was advertised in this sub, and below is a link to that post, where OP (who's taken it) describes the course and answers some questions :

https://www.reddit.com/r/theravada/comments/1nfmich/pali_101_at_yogic_studies_begins_915/

Here's a direct link to the course page:

https://www.yogicstudies.com/pali-101

I would like to introduce Epitaka, a free app and website I have been developing for studying the Pāli Tipiṭaka.

One of the main features I wanted to create is a better way to read the Mūla (root text) together with the Aṭṭhakathā (Commentaries).

📖 Commentary integrated directly into the Mūla

Traditionally, when studying the Tipiṭaka, you may need to move between the Mūla, Commentary, Ṭīkā, dictionaries, and other resources to understand a passage.

In Epitaka, relevant commentary can be displayed inline while reading the Mūla text. This makes it easier to see explanations alongside the original passage without constantly switching between separate books.

The goal is not to replace traditional study, but to make the relationship between the root text and its traditional explanations easier to explore.

🤖 AI that helps you return to the original text

AI translations of Buddhist texts are becoming increasingly common. However, one problem with AI-generated answers is that it can sometimes be difficult to know exactly which original passage the answer is based on.

Epitaka's AI features are designed with a different goal.

You can ask questions about the Dhamma, and the system searches the Tipiṭaka and related texts to find relevant passages. The answer can include the exact Pāli sentences from the source, allowing you to check the original text yourself.

Rather than treating an AI-generated explanation or translation as the final authority, the intention is to help the user trace the answer back to the actual Pāli.

I believe this is especially important now that many different AI translations and interpretations of the Tipiṭaka are being created.

AI can be useful for:

• Finding relevant passages
• Exploring connections between teachings
• Explaining difficult passages
• Helping readers navigate the enormous collection of texts

But the reader should still be able to see:

What exactly does the Pāli say?

That is one of the main ideas behind Epitaka: using modern technology and AI to make the original texts and their traditional explanations easier to access—not to hide them behind an AI-generated answer.

You can try it here:

Android app:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.dn.epitaka

Windows:
https://apps.microsoft.com/detail/9nr3sjfr6cf9

Website:
https://epitaka.org

Github:
https://github.com/dhammanana/epitaka_app/

The project is still actively being developed, and I would genuinely appreciate feedback, especially from people who study the Pāli Canon, the Commentaries, or Buddhist texts academically.

🙏 May it be useful for those who wish to study and understand the Dhamma.

I’ve been passively learning Pāli while reading suttas with parallel translations, and I wanted something that makes it easy to move between actually reading a text and checking individual words without constantly jumping to dictionaries or translations.

So I made https://sutta.stream

It presents the Pāli text with word-by-word grammatical and lexical information, while trying to stay out of the way enough that you can still just read.

I’d be especially interested in feedback from people who actually know Pāli: mistakes, misleading analyses, missing meanings, awkward UX, or anything else.

Hope it’s useful to someone here.

Below is the commentary for the verse lines I asked about a few days ago from Therīgāthā 5.4.

1. tassā me appamattāya, vicinantiyā yoniso;
   yathābhūtaṃ ayaṃ kāyo, diṭṭho santarabāhiro;

ten'āha tassā me appamattāyā'ti'ādi. tass'attho — tassā me (sati-avippavāsena a-ppamattāya) (yoniso upāyena anicc'ādi-vasena vipassanāpaññāya) (vicinantiyā vīmaṃsantiyā) (ayaṃ khandhapañcakasaṅkhāto kāyo) (sasantānaparasantānavibhāgato santarabāhiro) yathābhūtaṃ diṭṭho

The round brackets are my guess as to how parts are grouped.

Can anyone explain "sasantānaparasantānavibhāgato santarabāhiro" ?

Pruitt has "inside and outside, because of the division into one's own continuity and continuity of others"

I understand how the grammar and vocabulary give that reading, but what does it mean in terms of doctrine? As an explanation of internal/external reflection?

Any help much appreciated.

Here's Pruitt's (PTS 1998, 114) translation of the whole passage, in case it helps:

"The meaning of that is: vigilant through non-absence of mindfulness, in a reasoned manner, skillfully, by wisdom and insight because of impermanence etc., reflecting, considering, I saw this body, which is synonymous with the five aggregates, inside and outside, because of the division into one's own continuity and continuity of others, as it really was."

Dear forum

Assasāmī is literally "I will breathe in".

However, obviously it is not the act of making the body breathe in because the body automatically breathes; regardless of whether or not there is mindfulness established.

Assasāmī appears to practically (not literally) mean, for example: "While experiencing rapture, I will [use the skill i have developed] to remain cognisant of the in-breath [thus remain grounded while experiencing rapture]".

The sutta says: "So satova assasati satova passasati: Just mindful, they breathe in. Mindful, they breathe out". It appears "assasāmī" refers to "I am applying a method."

Is there different valid ways to use such personal pronouns to make them sound more nuanced & realistic?

sāsane hi madhārakkhe kaliyuge gaṭappake. mahādhammarājādhipatino kāle marammake..

rāmaṇṇadesiyabhayā naṭṭhe tadūpasammako. buddhaṅkura mahārāja pākaṭo sabbattha sadā..

ratanāsiṅghakāroca cakkaraṭṭhahitāvaho. tato pabhuti tasseva puttanattaparamparā...

Hi All! I hope you are well. I was wondering if the Pali language has a term for "nerves" that run throughout the body and "blood vessels". I haven't come across them in my studies yet and I know that these are not included in the official parts of the body that are described in the suttas. So far, my conclusion is that "brain" and "heart" must include nerves and blood vessels respectively. If there is a Pali term for them, I find it odd that they would not be included in the parts of the body because, from my perspective, these are the channels through which energy circulates throughout the body. If anyone can clarify this, either by vocabulary or reason or both, it would be appreciated. This particular question has been nagging at me for a while.

Peace and Metta

Sam

1. tassā me appamattāya, vicinantiyā yoniso;
   yathābhūtaṃ ayaṃ kāyo, diṭṭho santarabāhiro;

DPR text, translation, commentary

Here's a simplified version of the sentence that's perhaps enough to look at:

tassā me, appamattāya, kāyo diṭṭho [hoti]

If "me appamattāya" were instrumental then we'd have "by me, heedful" as the agent of the pp. diṭṭho (seen). That would be a nice, normal outcome, I believe.

But if "tassā me" should be read together, then the "me" is genitive/dative, and it's natural to read appamattāya as a genitive/dative also. But then I don't see how it fits into the rest of the sentence.

Could it be saying "my (tassā me) body (kāyo) is seen (diṭṭho)" ?

None of the translations I've seen do it that way. Pruitt's translation, e.g., is "Vigilant, reflecting in a reasoned manner, I saw this body as it really was, inside and out"

So, are the translators treating the entire first line "tassā me appamattāya vicinantiyā yoniso" as a genitive absolute?

Or can this genitive construction be serving the agentive function usually performed by instrumental case?

In an earlier verse in this gāthā (83) we do find bālānaṃ abhinanditaṃ; however, DPD has a special meaning of abhinandita that nominalizes it, removing the need for an agentive-genitive interpretation:

abhinandita 1

nt. (+gen) object of pleasure; delight (of); lit. delighted; pleased [abhi + √nand + ita] ✔

Much thanks for any input.

Dear Pali grammar experts. Is the Nanavira view below valid?

Adding it, I indexed Ñāṇavīra Thera, the published bearer of that argument. His version is both sharper and more restrained than yours. Sharper: the point isn't that citta means the heart, it's that the compounds are built differently — cittasaṅkhāra a dutiya tappurisa, "that which determines the citta"; manosaṅkhāra a tatiya tappurisa, "determination by the mano" (A Note on Paṭiccasamuppāda, note [g]). More restrained: in the same note the two are "not to be directly opposed to each other at all", and at §5 he grants that saṅkhārā "may, upon occasion, be cetanā". He rejects the restriction, not the equation.

The impression is Ñāṇavīra was not objectively analysing the tappurisa grammar but instead was subjectively interpreting the Sutta teaching and then imputing or forcing his subjective interpretation upon the tappurisa grammar. That is, Nanavira was working in a backwards manner.

Hello so EVERYONE is making fun of me for getting something without knowing the meaning (Its some sort of prayer/blessing im almost sure)
Some said the script might have been written wrong. Help me out?

Hello everyone, I am a dedicated practitioner and enjoy deepening my understanding through reading the suttas.

I recently started looking at the etymology of Pali words and saw how many translations are lacking in depth as there are many possible English words for one word in Pali. After doing this I noticed a my understanding improve quite a bit not just intellectually but experientially as well. I was better able to see the scope of a pali words and see how it applies to my experience here and now.

Given all this, for someone aiming for full liberation, how important is learning Pali? I guess the important terms would be enough, because otherwise one can turn this into a project and forget about the actual work…

Any advice?

Gratitude in advance 🙏

Hello r/pali,

I've been building a Pāli dictionary for a while, and it's now online, free, no account, no ads: https://ipd.bopath.fr

What it is. A Pāli dictionary written in nine target languages — English, French, German, Spanish, Italian, Dutch, Czech, Norwegian, Vietnamese. Each sense gets a definition composed natively in each language rather than translated out of the English one. Entries carry canonical attestations, inflected forms, the root and its lexical family, etymology, and an encyclopedic note where the word deserves one. Every entry has a citable permalink, e.g. ipd.bopath.fr/w/dhamma.

It's AI-assisted, and I'd rather tell you that up front than have it come as a surprise. An entry isn't a machine translation of an existing gloss: it's built by an agent following a fixed lexicographic protocol, in which around thirty dictionaries and corpora are compared as witnesses against the primary attestations, the indigenous exegesis (Niddesa, Abhidhānappadīpikā, the commentaries) and comparative etymology. Where the sources disagree, the canon decides. Two things worth stating plainly:

• Example sentences are never machine-translated. Their translations are taken verbatim from the human translators in the SuttaCentral corpus, with attribution — or the example is simply left untranslated. That's a line I won't cross.
• Nothing has been reviewed by a human lexicographer yet. Entries go live with an "AI · to verify" badge. They're rich and usually accurate, but they can be wrong, and a dictionary like this can't replace the work of people who spend decades with these texts. It really is a beta.

Where it stands. About 1,150 lemmas so far out of a curated headword list of ~75,000 — so roughly 1.5%. Entries are added every day; the horizon is 2029–2030. Slow, but moving.

You can ask for a word. If something you're looking for isn't in yet, there's a "Suggest a word" form (the search page offers it when a query comes up empty). It goes into the research queue, usually gets written within the day, and you'll get an email when it's live. One word per day per person, and it has to be a headword the canon actually attests — the queue is built from the corpus.

Where I'd really value help. The nine languages are not on equal footing, and I'd rather say why. English, French and German rest on real apparatus: monolingual and etymological dictionaries, doctrinal glossaries, a large body of aligned human translations. Czech, Norwegian, Dutch, Italian, Spanish and Vietnamese have far less to lean on — and I have no way of judging whether a Czech or a Norwegian definition reads like a dictionary or merely like something imitating one.

So if you read Pāli and one of those languages, I'd be genuinely grateful if you picked a word you know well — saṅkhāra, upādāna, anything you have strong views about — and told me what's off: a wrong equivalent, the wrong register, a sense that doesn't exist, a distinction that's been flattened. Critical feedback is exactly what's most useful to me here, and I'll act on it. Reply in the thread, or use the contact form on the site.

Content is CC BY-NC-SA 4.0. Thanks for reading.