r/mildlyinfuriating • u/ADefenselessGoat • 3d ago
ಠ_ಠ Dads text when I say I’m not going to church
For reference, my son goes to church with my parents every Sunday. My fiance and I are not very religious but this doesn’t stop my dad from basically nagging every Saturday for us to go to church with them. No matter how many times I say no, he won’t catch on
Edit: my son is old enough to choose whether he wants to go or not, which is what my fiance and I decided we would let him do. He can practice whatever he wants, or nothing at all.
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u/wyze-litten 3d ago
I really hate how people use religion to fear monger others into doing what they want
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u/Giopoggi2 3d ago edited 2d ago
Especially considering that: 1. Hell is never mentioned in the Bible; 2. If you need the threat of eternal torture to be a good person, you're not a good person at all.
Edit: "never mentioned" was shorthand. The original texts use Sheol, Hades and Gehenna, three different concepts that the oversimplified English translations flatten into "Hell". Whether they describe eternal torment is a matter of interpretation. Point 2 stands regardless, and the fact most "Christians", trying to 'Gotcha!' me, focused on the first is telling...
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u/Business_Wind6122 3d ago
- Church doesn't get you to heaven. Doesn't even make you a Christian, let alone a good one. It's just crowd control
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u/aw_shux 3d ago
I always liked the saying, “Going to church doesn’t make you a Christian any more than standing in your garage makes you a car.”
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u/TaleOfDash 3d ago
The Bible doesn't even say you need to attend church to be a Christian, but they don't like to hear that. Salvation is a gift gained through faith itself and re-enforced through grace and acts that revere god. It encourages Christians to gather together in worship but nowhere does it say you need to attend a church.
Infact, to the contrary, it explicitly lists examples in which those who never had the chance to attend church are saved through grace alone.
Like most things the whole idea has been co-opted by grifters who manipulate the word of the bible to best suit their needs, especially in places like America where so many churches are more like corporations in the way they are set up.
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u/gravyandasideofbread 3d ago
And if you need a book to guide your morals, you’re not a good person either. The religious people who assume non believers have no morals or ethics are baffling, like without the Bible people have no idea how to treat each other or be good
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u/FearlessAttempt 2d ago
Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones.
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u/DarkBladeMadriker 3d ago
Ya that whole avenue is fucking bizarre. Similar ive spoken with a few devote Christians and seen debates where Christians are legitimately baffled by the idea that atheists just dont believe in ANY god. They think atheists are "mad" at god or think the teachings/commandments are too restrictive. They have trouble with the concept of "i cant be mad at god, because I believe god is pretend time make-believe". Like do you believe in Bigfoot? No!? Why, are you upset with Bigfoot from some incident in your past? Does Bigfoot's philosophies go against your own?
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u/immersed_in_plants 3d ago
It's not? Where do they get the whole "hell" thing from then?
Genuinely curious
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u/Excalium 3d ago
“Hell” is an interpretation of Gehenna and the “Lake of fire” which is simply symbolic of permanent destruction, not eternal suffering.
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u/Rock_Strongo 3d ago
It is. I'm not religious and don't believe in the Bible but I hate when reddit just gaslights for no reason:
"And if your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than with two hands to go to hell, to the unquenchable fire." - Mark 9:43
"But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death." - Revelation 21:8
"They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might..." - 2 Thessalonians 1:9
"and throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth." - Matthew 13:50
"For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to chains of gloomy darkness to be kept until the judgment..." - 2 Peter 2:4
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u/lightning847 3d ago
Hell as it’s commonly portrayed today was first imagined in Milton’s Paradise Lost
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u/Giopoggi2 3d ago
That, and also Dante Alighieri's Divine Comedy, the same poem that popularized the concept of purgatory.
Fun fact: in the 15-16th centuries, the Church turned it into a revenue stream, especially through indulgences for the dead, claiming offerings would shorten the time their loved ones had to suffer in Purgatory.
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u/god_is_trans_69 3d ago
If you dont conform to my beliefs you'll be tortured for all eternity... just because
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u/Exciting_Farmer6395 3d ago
Tell him - if I died today, I wouldn't wake up.
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u/unsatisfries 3d ago
perfect response lol if i told my dad this he would say something like ohh it’s so sad to think that way ! 🤦♀️
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u/Exciting_Farmer6395 3d ago
Tell him, so sad that you have to resort to a fairy tale to give your life meaning and purpose. So sad that being here and now with me is not enough for you.
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u/unsatisfries 3d ago
i usually say something like “can’t win them all” or “that’s just how it goes” i don’t really care to argue
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u/TruthAffectionate595 2d ago
The problem with that is if someone who really cares about you truly believes you are literally damning yourself for eternity, they are pretty fucked up if they don’t try and try to convince you lol
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u/Homegrower69 2d ago
Unfortunately that's by design
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u/TruthAffectionate595 2d ago
Definitely. if only we could have the good bits without the cult programming
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u/-VioletEverlight- 3d ago
Yeah makes me think of those “well if god isn’t real what stops me from committed all the crime I want?” folk, as if it’s crazy to imagine regular people don’t want to commit crime and aren’t only holding back because of the threat of divine punishment
Gotta keep an eye on those ones
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u/StormyOnyx 2d ago
I love Penn Jillette's response to that question. "I do rape and murder all I want, and the amount I want is zero."
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u/Dev0psDude 3d ago
"dad, I'm glad the church gives you a sense of community, even a sense of peace, but I need you to understand I see it very differently."
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u/ScyllaOfTheDepths 2d ago
To me, it's super sad that people waste their entire lives preparing for another life that isn't real.
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u/LeatherSignature6293 3d ago
So sad is that they listen to rich men living in paradise here on earth now but they gotta wait for theirs. Best thing that'll happen to me EVER is death? yeah no thanks on the cult
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u/60300057 3d ago
So you’re telling me you can go to bed dead and wake up alive??
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u/ivonatinkle6 3d ago
Or give him the whole...well if the devil is opposed to God, why would he punish me for not going and praising God?
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u/Worldly_Address6667 3d ago
I'm not religious at all, so not defending religion or anything, but you're thinking about it backwards. In christianity, god has the power, not the devil. It's not the devil punishing him for not going to church, it's god punishing him, the devil has no say in the matter.
I personally think it shouldn't matter if you actually go to church, just whether or not you're a good person. I don't think someone like ghandi is in hell just because he never went to church. But that's a whole different conversation.
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u/Perdendosi 3d ago
An alternative way of thinking about this is it's not God punishing, it's you being separated from God (because that's what you chose during life). Since God is love then hell is existence without love. Whatever that means or looks like.
The "devils with pitchforks" stuff is mostly from Dante and other fictionalizations of heaven.
Denominations exploit this idea for dramatic effect, because their leaders are ignorant, or for other benign or malicious purposes.
(I'm also no longer a practicing Christian but have quite a bit of upbringing in a mainstream protestant church.)
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u/wcharoes 3d ago
>if you died where you wake up
Hopefully not in the coffin!
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u/Squ33to 3d ago
"Live in fear, buddy. Don't go to church because you believe in the religion and want to learn good moral values, go to church and dedicate your life to this religion in fear of what may happen if you don't"
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u/gaseous_ass 3d ago
I never understood this. I had this debate with a very religious northern Irish guy at uni. He said “aren’t you scared that if you don’t believe you will go to hell”, my response was “well I don’t believe in hell so why would I be scared? But also, surely if I just say I believe, when I am being judged they will be able to tell I am lying so I’m going to end up there anyway?”. He litterally just kept repeating his original statement to me, he couldn’t get his head around what I was saying.
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u/shrug_addict 3d ago
Pascal's wager is indeed a weak point with 5 seconds of thinking.
Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones
Marcus Aurelius had it right
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u/DeliciousLiving8563 3d ago
As much Dawkins can be an idiot he's made a few good points including about Pascal's wager being easy to debunk.
Simply, how do we know we're backing the right god? There's a huge number of gods and many are jealous. "Real god" may not be the one we're worshiping.
Pascal's wager is that you can't lose, but you can. Now you may consider the odds are still stacked but you're back to considering what you think not taking a bet you can't lose, so the wager doesn't work.
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u/canteloupy 3d ago
If the real God is the one from the Mormons we're all fucked.
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u/Theron3206 3d ago
I like the Terry Pratchett response to Pascal's wager. The character wakes up surrounded by gods holding various blunt instruments. One of them says "you know what we think about smartarses around here" (or similar).
You can't reason yourself into belief, by definition, and you can't be coerced into it either. So if God really did require belief church attendance certainly won't do it. Dude's omniscient, think he can't tell you're faking it.
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u/catjuggler 3d ago
I’ve heard from some religious people that the only thing that matters is declaring this or that or maybe repenting and not your actual behavior
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u/Rock_Strongo 3d ago
The church I grew up in, all you had to do was accept Jesus into your heart as your lord and savior and you are all set for heaven.
Since I was a child, I did so... so if it happens to be true then I guess I'm good to go.
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u/nascent_aviator 3d ago
The second sentence it falls apart a bit. If I knew for a fact there were gods that would reward me with eternal paradise for worshipping them and eternal damnation for not, you could be damn sure I'd worship them 🤣
But there's no point in worrying about an unjust god, because we can't possibly know which of our actions will please or infuriate a god that we know nothing about.
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u/SaintsNoah14 3d ago
This angle is why I could never really wrap my head around the idea of forced conversions as were relatively common historically as well as the extant practice of converting for marriage. Like how do you truly change what you believe about something so fundamental on a pragmatic basis?
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u/explosiveteddy 3d ago
Forced conversions make sense when you realise it was all about power and control and nothing to do with actually saving someone
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u/Kryslor 3d ago
People who think that they would be going to heaven just for believing in god haven't read the terms and conditions
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u/FatFaceFaster 3d ago
Here’s the problem; they are indoctrinated. This is their core belief. “Accept Jesus as your lord and saviour or you will never reach heaven”
Evangelicals are called to preach that out loud and try to convert anyone they can. That’s the core tenant of their faith.
If you can just accept that they are saying that because they truly believe the person across from them will burn for fiery eternity in hell, then you can understand why it might really bother them and they will be really adamant that they need to help you. In many cases it doesn’t come from a place of judging you, but a place of worrying about your (soul’s) wellbeing.
I have used this example before….
Imagine your son wanted to take part in a very risky activity…. I don’t know your proclivity to risk but let’s just say cliff diving or wingsuit flying through the mountains or something.
This is your son. Your boy.
He’s never done this before! He could DIE!!
You are SO concerned that he is going to die or get very injured that you are literally sick to your stomach.
You beg and plead with him not to do it.
He assures you he’s watched all the training videos and he had the best teacher and he’s going to be fine.
In your mind you know that there’s a chance he’s right. He might be fine.
But there’s this fear in the pit of your stomach that says you have to keep begging because the risk is too great that he will get killed.
That’s how deeply faithful Christians feel when their loved ones don’t believe in Jesus.
And of course thet trickles down to friends and coworkers too.
I might not be quite as persistent if the guy that sits across from me at work told me he was going wingsuit flying on the weekend but I might still say “dude are you sure? That’s so dangerous man you could get killed! Are you sure!?”
It’s not a perfect analogy but that same pit in your stomach visceral feeling that someone is putting their lives at risk and you need to try to stop them is the way Christians feel about non Christians in the afterlife.
You should know I am a HARDCORE agnostic.
I believe no one knows anything. I think we’re all just morons trying to find more meaning in this life and we’ll grab onto anything that helps it make sense.
So I respect everyone’s beliefs and I happened to fall in love with a woman whose entire family believed I was going to hell for not going to church.
After years of deep conversations and lots of time showing them that I’m a devoted husband and father and all around good dude, they’ve finally accepted or learned to believe that I am maybe not doomed to an afterlife of pain and fire.
All I’m getting at it is; for the ones who really believe this, try to be compassionate that it comes from a place of concern even if it’s pushy or comes off as disrespectful of your beliefs.
There are PLENTY of judgemental asshole fuck “Christians” that use the bible as an excuse to be bigoted horrible xenophobic/homophobic/islamophobic etc cunts but there are just as many good people who have simply been raised to believe that they need to protect people from a horrible afterlife. You don’t have to agree to understand it comes from a well meaning place.
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u/haditwithyoupeople 3d ago
This is essentially the point of Pascal's wager. I'm sure it's the primary reason that most people choose to believe. The cost as seen as relatively low to avoid a permanent and forever negative result. So why would you not do your best to comply?
This makes sense if there were not 4000-10K religions and thousands of different gods that all think they have the secret to a comfortable afterlife. So do you believe in all of them to cover the odds?
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u/Wb9VBScxu2uZJHeq2E3W 3d ago
Interestingly, on Catholicism, the wager works more to your benefit in reverse.
If you believe, and you act as a good person, it's impossible to avoid being a "good" person selfishly. You are acting in self interest and self preservation, seeking the reward of heaven, and avoiding the punishment of hell. Catholics call this Imperfect Contrition.
On the other hand, an atheist can authentically act as a good person, without any expectation of the promise of heaven, or fear of hell. Only a nonbeliever can, without compromise, achieve Perfect Contrition.
So actually the best religious wager under Catholicism is to be a atheist doing selfless good deads, for no other reason than out of love for your fellow man.
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u/PsySom 3d ago
The thing is it’s not like I could just choose to believe. Seems like being religious is pretty nice a lot of the time and it’s nice to believe in justice and a loving god after death, if I could just flip that switch right now I totes would.
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u/haditwithyoupeople 3d ago
Yeah, I have to wonder how many are true believers or just go along. I don't see any true justice in it. If it were just, it would be based on how we lived our lives, not on choosing to be believe and still being a terrible person. Most Christian faiths have the "anything is forgiven" if you believe. How is that justice?
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u/trustcircleofjerks 3d ago
Back in my 20s I really have this a lot of thought. Like, I could totally say all the magic words to get into the club, and the perks of membership are pretty good, but there's zero chance I could ever actually believe any of it, and that just didn't sit right with me.
But honestly, deep down, it's a little tough for me to imagine that any fully functional human adult actually believes any of it and isn't just saying the magic words to get into the club.
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u/Imalsome 3d ago
Thats why I like responding by talking about other religions afterlives and asking why they outfit themselves for battle so they can get into valhalla. Arnt they afraid?
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u/FiorinasFury 3d ago
It's like a meth addict offering you meth, and if you refuse, they ask "aren't you scared you won't be able to make it through the day without it?"
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u/Playful-Profile6489 3d ago
Hey, buddy. You're going to burn in hell for all eternity unless you come to our book club.
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u/Siks7Ate9 3d ago
I got a bible every fkn birthday for 8 years straight from my grandmother who is very religious. I told her I didn't read the last one every birthday. She responded with why didn't you read it? At first i responded with grandmother I am dyslexic, it cannot read properly (I am actually dyslexic).
Finally when I figured out i was able to read in English (my first language is Dutch but my dyslexia is waaay worse in that language) my entire world opened for me and I read Harry Potter, followed by countless other books untill I was reading book after book after book in English, but never the bible. To this day (like 25 years later) I still have not read the bible, there is just so much better stuff to read.
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u/Kyderra 2d ago
Fun fact, A study showed that atheist on average know the bible better then Cristian.
Manny will give a book and talk about following it, but never actually read it fully once. whits is really wild when you realize how much they devote their life to it.
also, I feel that, I love reading in English, can't do it in Dutch
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u/blessthebabes 3d ago
I hear this at least twice a week still, for the past 2 decades. I just feel bad for them- they're so terrified that a person they love will be tortured forever (i remember the feeling, from the childhood indoctrination). It's easy for me to say no. It's not easy for them for me to say no, unfortunately.
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u/TChildZ 3d ago edited 3d ago
I have the same conversations with my dad, except in this particular faith the whole family stop socialising with me if they think I don’t believe it anymore so I have been walking the line of doing the bare minimum spiritually to keep them happy for 4 years now. I’m 32 btw but there’s no age limit on the consequences for changing your mind/realising your mistake in this faith. The entirety of my friends and family will vanish if I’m completely honest about how I feel.
So I’m wishing you all the best with your dad, buddy.
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u/Ok_Brother1462 3d ago
Sounds like my LDS in laws. Their love is conditional.
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u/PumpikAnt58763 3d ago
After 55 years of going to church with thankfully increasingly less and less Conservative neighbors, my hubby and i finally got redistricted into a ward waaaaay out in the boonies (still northern Utah).
Nowadays when I explain that my daughter married a Canadian woman (both Ace) and is now living in Canada and no, she doesn't want her records moved up there, ward members are more likely to say "Oh, is she happy?" instead of "Oh." then giving judgey looks.
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u/yoloboro 3d ago
Jehovah's Witness?
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u/Mysterious_Mango_3 3d ago
Or scientology.
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u/Massive-Rate-2011 3d ago
Scientology is much, much worse with consequences for leaving. They will get you fired and imprisoned and shit.
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u/WillowPtar_Migan 3d ago
Scientology essentially has a gigantic harassment machine, that they utilize if they think they can convince you to join, or to punish people who leave, complete with barrels of money and lawyers ready to frivolously litigate whatever whilst drowning you in legal fees.
It doesn't matter if they're wrong it they bankrupt you.
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u/Sparky678348 The aglet fell off of my Shoelace :( 3d ago
I hope you can make friends and family who accept you for who you are.
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u/CH3RRYP0PP1NS 2d ago
That's not real friends, not REAL family. Idc if my kids worship the flying spaghetti monster, theyre still my kids and I love em.
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u/919triangle919 2d ago
The fear mongering is probably the main reason I disassociated with "the church". You can still be a religious person (think there is some higher power out there), treat people with respect, live a honorable life, and hope that if there is something beyond that is based on how you lived your life on Earth, that you'll be rewarded for being good, not because you sat in a building for an hour once a week.
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u/University_Dismal 2d ago
I’m an atheist, but even I know that not visiting church is not going against the religion at all. There’s passages in the bible in which for example David insisted on building a temple for god and god was like “I'm good”. Churches didn’t even exist in Jesus lifetime, so he obviously didn’t command anyone to show up there every Sunday either.
If not going to church is supposedly a hell-worthy offense, then the rulebook has been edited. I suspect it’s by those that profit from it.
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u/meesanohaveabooma 3d ago
So they only do shit out of fear, not actually wanting to be a good person just for the sake of it.
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u/One-Two3214 3d ago
I feel like that’s the majority of the reason most people follow organized religion to begin with: they’re afraid of death and it’s there ‘just in case.’ Unfortunately, some people need the overwhelming fear of eternal damnation to be decent humans.
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u/EdgelordZeta 3d ago
"You didn't go to the building, sing the songs or put money in the basket? Straight to hell" - God (maybe)
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u/Lithl 3d ago
And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.
—Matthew 6:5-8
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u/Cjc2205 3d ago
Respond in the words of Amy Farrah Fowler:
“I don’t object to the concept of a deity but I am baffled by the notion of one that takes attendance”
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u/SpeccyBeard 2d ago
Why does religion turn people into pushy weirdos?
Guilt tripping someone about death doesn't sound like a 'great little church family' to me.
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u/No-Distribution5174 2d ago
Because they've been convinced that their pushy-ness is justified since they're saving them from damnation. As if a god with such arbitrary rules is worthy of worship.
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u/vivaciousvic 3d ago
Japan has ruled that raising children with fear based religion is abuse and psychological warfare
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u/shizzih 3d ago
My dad is religious but never really forced the subject when we were kids, I think due to having to be a dual income family, we were in Sunday school briefly and would do Easter and Christmas Eve service.
He recently told me that he see me and my brothers lack of religion as his greatest failure.
I responded that I viewed it as one of his greatest achievements as a father, he didn’t force it on us and we were able to make our own decision about religion.
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u/D102D007 3d ago
I mean, death comes like the thief in the night. But if you believe there is no God, there'd be no point in you going.
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u/Purple_Fan_7854 2d ago edited 2d ago
For this specific text, if you find the energy, tell your father this:
If you were to go to Church only to avoid going to hell, that would corrupt the idea of what faith and free will is and negate that you love god sincerely.
That would be like if you stayed with your spouse only because you would be tortured if you left.
That’s not love, that’s coercion and you don’t believe that a god that would act or think that this is a just and loving way to treat his believers should be worshipped.
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u/FangOfDrknss 3d ago
The problem with religious people, is that I’m positive a portion think going to church absolves them of any sins. A lot of people at my workplace wear “Jesus loves you” and other religious shirts, but this one guy I saw come out of the bathroom and didn’t even flush.
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u/PreviousKing6225 3d ago
My senior citizen mom was cleaning the snow off the church steps and all the teenagers and young adults from the "holier than thou" families walked right past her.
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u/Emergency_Bench_7515 3d ago
Damn I wouldn't let my parents take my son to church, especially with this level of fear manipulation.
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u/mandrews03 3d ago
They edited their caption. Kid’s old enough to make the choice themselves and parents aren’t going to take a side either way. This is how it should be. I’m anti-religion, but if my kid wants to be religious, knowing enough about both sides, then so be it.
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u/DetergentCandy 3d ago
If your god needs to threaten eternal damnation in order to control your actions, maybe that's not a very just god.
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u/Consistent-Salt-1460 3d ago
Yet somehow religious people will still tell you their religion isn't oppressive lol.
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u/Luftwaffle1980 3d ago
One could also argue that if the only thing keeping you from doing bad things is the fear that a god will punish you to life of damnation you are probably not a good person
Edit: fix autocorrect
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u/HazelTheRah 2d ago
A God who sends you to Hell for literal eternity just for not going to church sure sounds like a guy I don't want to worship.
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u/Rage_Blackout 2d ago
Enter the classic meme of Jesus knocking on the door.
“Let me in so I can save you.”
“Save me from what?”
“Save you from what I’m going to do to you if you don’t let me in.”
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u/ApplePieWithCheese 2d ago
Adding to this, if a god is all knowing (as Christians believe), then he would know before you were even born that you would reject him... But he still created you knowing you'd go to hell for eternity.
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u/suddenspiderarmy 3d ago
Better to go to the mountains and think of church, than to go to chruch and think of the mountains.
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u/CruxofGhost 3d ago
This is why I'm against church. I have my beliefs. They stay to myself but I refuse to believe that going to a building every Sunday is going to save my soul or damn me to hell. That's silly. Church isn't a one way ticket.
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u/Desperate-Amoeba1359 3d ago
This is how religion hits their numbers
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u/gravyandasideofbread 3d ago
Coerce, guilt trip, shame, dismiss, it’s the way of religion
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u/Mother_Equivalent649 Mount Vesuvius 3d ago
I'm so glad I was born being able to stand for my ground
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u/PuzzleheadedDay7943 2d ago
"If you died where would you wake up"
"Nowhere, I'd be dead".
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u/Ahrjun 3d ago
Aren't you worried that your dad might start to put such thoughts in your child's mind? Your dad has the position that if you don't go to church, that you will end up in hell. It will be pretty fucked up if your child is taught that is what will happen to him too if he stops going to church.
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u/PurpleGoatNYC 3d ago
“I can’t go to church because I worship the sun and I only pray to Joe Pesci.”
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u/Vegetable-Two2173 3d ago
If my dad called me buddy incessantly I think it would be a bigger issue than church.
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u/epsilon-4142 3d ago
Depending on your branch of Christianity you actually wouldnt go to either. You would actually be put into purgatory and then sorted into hell on judgment day
I’m not religious, im just saying. Not even necessarily right within Christianity
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u/LizBert712 3d ago edited 3d ago
I thought they got rid of purgatory.
Editing to add: was thinking of limbo. Sorry!
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u/Special_Artichoke 3d ago
The ones that think hell is an actual real place and not even a metaphor are beyond help
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u/shittypersonality 3d ago
Many people don't know this but there's actually an elevator between the two!
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u/Creamy_Breve 3d ago
I feel like the mildly infuriating part is that you send your son off to be brainwashed with this man.
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u/ih8atlascorp 3d ago
A lot of assuming on my part, but it's probably his choice to go. I'm not religious as an adult, but I went to church with my grandparents nearly every Sunday (sometimes more) growing up for the sole fact that I wanted to spend time with them (and we ate ice cream after, but that's a secret).
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u/ECoastThrowAway 3d ago
If his grandfather is threatening him with eternal damnation and torture and he has the mind of a kid, how much of a free choice is it?
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u/NDeceptikonn 3d ago
When I used to go to have Sunday’s off from work, my parents would tell me that I (only me) have to go to church. When I asked why is it only me? Why can’t you tell my brother and other sister that? The response as always “because it’s different they don’t have to go or they’re tired but you need to go. So I said it was mine decision if I wanna go and I was proceeded with “you know what if you wanna go to Hell THEN GO!!”
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u/GreaseBrown 3d ago
"We let him choose"
Yeah because a child who constantly hears his grandparents talking about all the punishments for not going or believing will definitely make an educated decision.
I have no problem with religion, but this doesnt sound like church. A "great little church family" is the type of shit you hear from small, very very unchristian cult congregations.
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u/No_Relief_9945 3d ago
I don’t know how I feel that you’re letting your son go to church with your dad. If he’s being so blunt with you, I’d reckon he’s probably scarring your kid with some fire and brimstone preaching as well. Might wanna stop letting him bring your son with him.
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u/DaBingeGirl 3d ago
I've honestly never understood the appeal of Heaven. Even as a kid the idea that my dead relatives were always watching me was creepy AF. I also didn't want to spend eternity with them.
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u/incognitohippie 3d ago
We don’t remember before this life so why would we remember after???
Just be a good and kind person at the end of the day is how I choose to live.
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u/max_cel_x 3d ago
It's so weird to see Christians not understanding sack shit about Christianity,
Jesus is this peaceful guy fighting for his creations that he made, everyone is flawed but he still loves everyone, Jesus isn't the guy that would say "son you've been an amazing human but since you don't believe in me I'll send you to hell"
I think he'd love people for how they behave and what kind of lives they live,
This American Christianity mindset of strictly following rules because your afraid of consequences that aren't even part of your religion is so weird,
Like they are so afraid of going to hell that they become shitty people which probably wouldnt lower the chances of going to hell, like TF?
It's like no one truly understands their own religion
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u/ThisMeansRooR 3d ago
The condescending buddy's really irk me.
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u/gravyandasideofbread 3d ago
It’s infantilizing, treating the reader like they are slow and need to be talked through the point differently than an adult would process
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u/oofyikeboi 3d ago
Do they think that an all knowing, omnipotent being wouldn’t know the difference between you going to church because you actually believe vs just in case? Thats not how believing something works. jfc
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u/vulcanstrike 3d ago
Yeah, this kind of grandparent just lost grandkids going to church permissions!
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u/Atrio-Ventricular 3d ago
So condescending. I feel like I'm gonna get kidnapped by just reading this.
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u/LetThem_1972 3d ago
You send your child off to be indoctrinated into something you despise? Why you do that?
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u/GarbageCat27 3d ago edited 3d ago
On Saturday? Let me guess they’re Seventh Day Adventist?
Careful those are super brainwashy. My brother married a woman who’s one and he was raised Catholic but we weren’t strict about our religion. Only went to church for special events. Did some ceremonies as kids, but as teens or young adults my parents didn’t force it on us and didn’t lecture us using religion or god.
So me and my parents were shocked when just a couple months of being with his wife he converted and got baptized again as a Seventh Day Adventist now he’s those Jesus freaks type of people. Never did politics but now all he likes/posts is MAGA bullshit. Came out of nowhere.
Edit: whoops I misread it. I thought the dad bugging on Saturday was when they were going. But that was him preparing to get OP to go the next day on Sunday. My bad.
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u/qasarzz 3d ago
Lots of catholic churches hold saturday service just for people who are busy on sundays
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u/Herbizarre17 3d ago
First line is about going to church on Sunday. The dad asks him about it on Saturday because it’s the day before church so he’s asking ahead of time
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u/monkeybawz 3d ago
Why is the default that he goes until he is old enough to decide for himself? Shouldn't it be the other way round- like he cannot go until he has a good bullshit detector?
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u/idkeverynameistaken9 3d ago
Just go there buddy. It’s not a big deal buddy. You’ll just burn in hell if you don’t buddy. Just think about it buddy
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u/rsandrini 3d ago
That’s true buddy, I’m texting here from hell, the good news is that reddit works really well here buddy. Just think about it buddy
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u/dantemortemalizar 2d ago
Spending extra time in a particular building does not get you a free pass to be a bad person. And if you are a good person, you don't need it.
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u/zaviamorpheus 3d ago
Hey there buddy, you wanna come meet my friend Jesus, he has icecream and cake and he said we can play in his basment? Come on bud you know you wanna! What's the matter don't you like cake. ehh ehhh. He may even have some of that body of christ juice only grown ups are allowed!
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u/DarkShadowZangoose 3d ago
"It is enough that I let you take my son, but if I do not want to go with him that's my choice"
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u/Alissan_Web 3d ago
ah yes very christ like. fear mongering/bullying your child. Also pretty sure he died on the cross for our sins... so... we'd all be going to heaven 🙃
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u/SquishyBell 3d ago
Whenever someone tried to guilt me to going to church, I always tell them I'd rather be in hell where I'll know people, because no one i know is getting into heaven. That usually shuts them up.
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u/WholesomeLowlife 3d ago
If God is real, going to church will not the determining factor of whether you are considered good or bad. In fact, sitting around in a pretty building doing nothing while so many suffer around you will not be a good look for you.
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u/WaffleHouseGladiator 3d ago
Just start talking to your dad about how he needs to die in battle or the bedroom in order to be welcomed into the halls of Valhalla. If he died a mundane death where would he wake up? If he wants to be welcomed into Odin's arms with meade and song he really needs to consider going to war to glorify his patron deity.
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u/Them-Bones-r-me 3d ago
Glad this person has a choice. I was horribly abused in a christian school. I had no say in the matter. Forced religious indoctrination is a form of child abuse imo. I would rather go to their fictional hell with kind wonderful people who died (like my amazing husband) vs live an eternity with abusers...
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u/MaximusZacharias 3d ago
If you died today you wouldn’t wake up at all. Take that dad!!
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u/milk4all 2d ago
I was raised in church, moms methodist, methodist grandparents.
I shit you not i was done by 6-7, i knew better and no one had any common sense. I was militant atheist for a time but i chilled somewhat, and ive let my kids go with their grandmas ti church (wifes mom baptist) but i have never “let then decide” on their own. Fuck that, church is indoctrination, its brainwashing. Mfers tell you you and your sinful parents burn in HELL. Come to youth group, nevermind reliably high rates of SA from youth leaders and church leaders. No, my kids all learn that religion makes people frel comfortable in their boxes and the hope they can be kings when they die, and i only let them experience church when i think they have enough self awareness and fortitude to see it for what it is. My oldest kids all visited a chutcu with their grandma(s) in high school snd they all saw the weirdness in it. Because it is, its fucking weird
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u/Anders_A 2d ago
It's hilarious how he's trying to make you make a choice that's only relevant to his beliefs. Not yours 😂.
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u/alex-weej 2d ago
"Just think about it. But not too much and don't read any of those science books."
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u/thebagel264 2d ago
"Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’"
The Bible also doesn't say to go to church. It says to gather. If he's asking where you think you'll go if you die, he should be asking about your faith in Christ not your church attendance.
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u/Relative-Dog-6012 3d ago edited 3d ago
God doesn't send people to Hell for not going to church. All you need is #1 accept Jesus as our Savior. #2 honestly repent and ask forgiveness of your sins to Jesus. That's it. Edit: I'm Gnostic so this isn't even my belief, it's just the simplistic form of Christianity I saw living in Texas.
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u/Lithl 3d ago edited 3d ago
Different denominations preach different requirements for salvation. Some say words, some say acts, some say words and acts.
Some say once saved, always saved, and presumably OP's parents took him to church when he was a kid and believed he was saved then. If their denomination is of the "always saved" variety, then OP would be destined for heaven under their belief system regardless of anything he does for the rest of his life.
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u/Apprehensive-Ad5996 3d ago
Some of us believe all are saved and that nobody is condemned to eternal suffering. If God is love then there’s no other option.
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u/BowlJumpy5242 3d ago
“Love and worship me, or I will make you suffer for all eternity.”
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u/dragon34 3d ago
Right? If god wants me to believe in it it can do something useful.
The taking all the credit and none of the blame doesn't fly with me. Not worshipping a lazy, sadistic, narcissistic asshole thanks
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u/Infinite_Formal_7343 3d ago
Only word the god of the Bible uses to describe himself: "I am jealous".
Dan Barker put it best: “The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.”
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u/i3inaudible 2d ago
Starving to death and dying of bone cancer are two very horrific ways to die. This happens to millions of innocent children.
There are four possibilities:
God doesn't know it's happening so he's not omniscient and therefore not worth worshipping
God knows but can't do anything about it so he's not omnipotent and therefore not worth worshipping
God knows and could do something about it but doesn't. Therefore he's a sadist and is not worth worshipping but instead should be reviled and hated.
God doesn't exist so there's nothing to worship
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u/SoulTechnicalProblem 2d ago
The Bible was just a collection of stories that were inspired by philosophical concepts and got hijacked into a religion. Same as any other religious text.
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u/supershinythings ******sigh******** 3d ago
Don’t forget to tithe! They need those sweet dollars for the pastor’s new private jet!
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u/Accurate-Frame5104 3d ago
‘If you died today where would you wake up?’
How do you respond to or respect someone who asks such a childish question?
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u/SoCalHermit 3d ago
“Going to church doesn’t make you a Christian just like standing in the garage doesn’t make you car. “
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u/Cats12128 3d ago
This was my childhood. Don't want to go to church with us? Guess you're going to hell. And this is when I was young. OP please make sure your parents aren't scaring your kid into going like mine did. Don't let him think if he doesn't want to go to church he's bad person and going to hell.