r/languagelearning • u/DoYourWork123 • 4d ago
Studying Notes After Doing a B2 Exam
- B2 is way harder than most people think. I know countless people (my past self included) who thought they were B2 because they were comfortable having conversations in their TL. In reality they are B1 or even A2.
From now on I will forever be sceptical on someone's ability if they claim a certain level without having had formal classes or having taken an exam.
- Common language learning advice such as heavy CI, Anki, and regular speaking practice is misleading at worse and limited at best. I spent years using these methods and was at a total plateau without understanding why.
'Passive' CI is one tool, but it must be supplemented with more intensive listening. Understanding ~90% - or the gist- of a conversation almost certainly means you miss important details. Intensive listening works your ability to extract these details.
With Anki, it's one thing forcing yourself to recognise and recall words using SRS, and i think this is good for learning basic vocab (animals, seasons, bodyparts) but once you get to B2, you must be able to understand complex vocab and phrases inside out - including the nuances between them. This is done by researching the word itself and prompting yourself to make useful sentences out of them.
For speaking, unless you're very lucky or have a professional teacher, you will very rarely be corrected when you make mistakes, and much less be shown better alternatives if your speech is understandable but unnatural. In addition, many of your daily conversations won't be at a high enough level to be challenging. Try recording yourself presenting arguments on a complex topic and you will realise how much you still have to learn, not just in more complicated vocab but also in your use of connectors. Show the recording to a professional teacher or even an AI for feedback.
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u/PdxGuyinLX 4d ago
I passed a formal B2 test in European Portuguese last year with a score of 80/100. In reality I would say I don’t meet all of the CEFR criteria.
I can’t understand a Portuguese television show unless it has Portuguese subtitles.
I like to measure my progress by listening to podcasts, trying to transcribe them and checking it against an auto-generated transcript. If I listen to something 2 or 3 times I can usually understand about 80% of it. My reading and vocabulary is probably solidly B2.
My speaking is OK in that I can get by in day to day life without difficulty, but I make lots of errors where I know what is correct but the wrong thing pops out.
I think the language levels are pretty broad and just knowing someone is B2 doesn’t tell you that much about their capabilities by itself.
And finally, probably the only thing in life that is more exaggerated than penis size is people’s self-estimate of their language levels.
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u/Goosr 4d ago
I get the sentiment behind the post , I think?
Levels are misleading, exam results are an indicator but an inaccurate one regarding your level.
In my language school there is B1 and b1.2, then B2. I was placed at b1.2 by an entrance exam and I'm exaggerating when I say I was probably a mid A2 at best. I had only the roughest idea of key grammar, other grammar points I had never even heard of but was somewhat familiar with through input. Tonnes of essential vocabulary that I had never encountered etc.
I'm currently studying for a B2 exam and I know I will fail it. Even if I did pass it and meet their standards, it would not leave me confident that my use of language is natural or accurate whatsoever.
It's a good goal to pass these exams but as we all know you never really stop learning.
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u/weedexpat 4d ago
FYI, you can probably pass a B2 exam without fully having all of the attributes of a B2 speaker. The exams are hackable.
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u/Spiritual-Job9392 4d ago
Unpopular opinion relating to this, but I think exams should be far more rigorous. You are B2 or you’re not. 50% is a piddly pass mark. If you’re halfway to B2… you’re B1. If you’re scraping a pass, you’re simply not proficient enough. The scale exists for nuance and we shouldn’t have so much nuance within the levels themselves. The fact that you can pass DELF (not sure about DALF) exams with 5/20 in a skill is appalling.
B1 is also vastly underestimated; people measure their supposed proficiency in terms of time and effort, but it simply doesn’t often correlate. When you actually get to B2, you almost don’t want to learn another new language because you realise just how vast of a knowledge it can require.
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u/furyousferret 🇺🇸 N | 🇫🇷 | 🇪🇸 | 🇯🇵 4d ago
I have a B1, and TBH, it kind of has the energy people think what B2 is. Its just B2 is pushed as mastery so everyone self proclaims B2 and no one wants to admit they are B1.
The tests are hard IMO, they're a 3.5 hour slog and you are fried by the time you get to the last section. Granted, a native will pass easily but they're still going to miss some just by pure test fatigue, imo.
A lot of people fail the tests, I have. No one comes on here to brag about that, so you only hear from people that pass and people that claim they don't have to take it because they just 'know' (which can be true, but in many instances it seems like hopeium.
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u/Spiritual-Job9392 3d ago
Agreed, and I probably would’ve done the same when I was still B1. B2 is an enormous step up and it seems to be even more challenging in French imo; I found Spanish just didn’t have the same variety of words and register (thankfully!), yet going to C1 after that wasn’t so bad. I think there’s an element of B2+ vocabulary / structures being condensed into books and resources for that level, but actually quite sparse ‘in the wild’.
I also agree on the bias, and some people seem to take A1-C2 as a simple 6-point subdivision to use however they like. I’ve seen videos saying du coup and de plus are B2 connectors 😂 but I’ve also had students with very poor French pass B1 DELF (Junior, admittedly), and almost none fail the A2 despite requiring consistent and intensive reinforcement of basic tenses in the years afterward. I don’t know what bothers me about it; I’ve always been a perfectionist but to me, you don’t even deserve A2 if you can’t consistently conjugate basic verbs, some mistakes should be exclusionary when they are pervasive. I think the Junior exams are a good thing because they are accessible, but they should still be encouraged or required to sit an adult or more rigorous version later.
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u/LiterallyTestudo 🇺🇸N | 🇮🇹 B2 4d ago
Yeah people see the “intermediate” associated with B2 and then the Dunning Krueger kicks in when they feel they’ve hit “intermediate” so without testing people will start throwing around B2.
It took me a full year of intense study after passing the B1 to pass the B2. It will have taken me two full years of study after the B2 to pass the C1. It’s possible I could have passed the C1 with 18 months but I didn’t feel like cramming.
The jumps between these levels are way, way bigger than people expect the first time learning a language.
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u/New-Bottle-6917 N:🇺🇸 Heritage: B2 🇲🇽 L3: HSK 6 🇨🇳 4d ago
B2 is a weird level, it is a very high level of fluency but people take that to mean its also like near native or a level that puts you in that stratosphere. Personally as someone pushing into C1 territory people really underestimate just how wide the gap feels as you get further and further into the game
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u/Reasonable_Ad_9136 4d ago
Exactly right. I feel like the B2 claims come from learner material that is labelled "B2." That doesn't mean that the learner has a B2 level (VERY far from it) but many learners get duped into believing it does.
Tutors blowing smoke up their student's asses don't help either. There's encouragement and then there's just plain BS.
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u/Accurate-Purpose5042 4d ago
Even at C1+ the gap with native speakers is massive. I've done that two times
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u/ttjpmt 🇬🇧👌| 🇫🇷 👍| 🇰🇷 🤔| 🇮🇹 🇵🇰 😵 4d ago
Depends on the native speaker, tbh. A fair proportion of uneducated native speakers might not meet the requirements for C1
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u/Accurate-Purpose5042 4d ago
I partially agree. I work with french native speakers, some of them wouldn't pass a written test. However, they express themselves on a way that would be extremely hard for a non native to replicate. Thats why I think we shouldn't try to put them on a scale that was thought for 2nd language learners
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u/julieta444 English N/Spanish(Heritage) C2/Italian C1/Farsi B1 4d ago
Who thinks B2 is close to native level? I’ve never come across that idea. I wouldn’t even call it a high level of fluency.
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u/Mysterious-Draw-553 4d ago
Although I’ve never taken an exam. I learned Spanish on my own and live in Barranquilla with my wife 100 percent in the language. I don’t agree with your entire comment, but the sentiment of people having no idea what B2 really is let alone C1/C2 then cultural fluency..100 percent. It took me 5 years of FULL time study, living in the country 100 percent in the language etc to be a “near native Spanish speaker”.
Expression is the last phase, you’ll understand native speakers long before you can form Spanish like them organically.
When I moved to Barranquilla my brother-in-law basically reshaped my entire Spanish output. Cut off all the fat. It was a process.
But anyone who tells you they got to B2 or C1 or “Fluency”..in a year or whatever is absolutely lying to you. Maybe they don’t realize they are, but inside of a pure native environment they’d get lost immediately. I’ve seen it happen to people again and again.
Like for example this is a text I wrote for one of my lessons in my Skool community. That I would consider normal B2 with some elements of more advanced stuff
Desde que era niño, la playa siempre ha sido uno de mis lugares favoritos. Para mí, el mar tiene una cualidad mística. De hecho, todo el misterio llegó a su punto máximo cuando el verano pasado vi algo que no tenía explicación lógica. Hasta el día de hoy sigo preguntándome qué era.
Esa tarde, recuerdo que el olor del agua salada era más fuerte de lo habitual. Estaba pescando en mi bote, más o menos a una milla de la orilla, y el viento se detuvo en seco. No se escuchaba nada, pero mi instinto me decía que algo iba a pasar. De repente, fuera del agua apareció la cabeza de una criatura parecida a un dinosaurio. Me quedé quieto, tan sorprendido como asustado. Me miró durante cuarenta y cinco segundos antes de volver bajo el agua.
De vuelta en el muelle, mi amigo sabía que yo había visto algo. No me pidió una explicación, solo asintió con la cabeza. Mis hijos estaban en la orilla construyendo castillos de arena, sin saber que algo había pasado. Los llamé para volver a casa y prepararnos para la cena. Tenía que contarles lo que vi.
Más tarde, alrededor de la mesa, les conté todo. Expliqué que el viento se había detenido y que tenía un presentimiento extraño de que algo iba a pasar. Cuando les hablé sobre la criatura, no podían creerlo. Me hicieron un millón de preguntas y todos decidimos que lo mejor era no contarle la historia a nadie más. Sabíamos que, si respetábamos el mar, el mar también nos respetaría.
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u/furyousferret 🇺🇸 N | 🇫🇷 | 🇪🇸 | 🇯🇵 4d ago
Its hard with Spanish because many learners get at a 'good enough' level and stop. Rarely do you find learners that can naturally use things like 'le', 'relative pronouns', being able to use a short command with 2 pronouns, the past subjunctive, etc. I still struggle with it after 6 years (it doesn't help I've done 2 other languages as side quests).
I still argue that advanced Spanish grammar is hard and takes a while to get used to...its easy to identify it as input, but outputting is much harder.
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u/Mysterious-Draw-553 4d ago
Advanced Spanish grammar is very tricky. So many little moving pieces.
Personally speaking I think the subjunctive is the most incorrectly taught topic in Spanish.
For me one doesn’t “learn grammar”. In my experience it’s something like this.
Teach the awareness of the concept in the most simple way possible. Truly the bare minimum.
Expose them to the concept in a narrative style context used naturally and correctly. Again and again and again.
Brain will process this and will acquire the rule
Then it will start to be produced.
Conventional teaching has this flipped on its head because it allows it to be tested.
It’s a process and it’s certainly not 1 2 3…more like 1…2…………………………. 3
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u/an_average_potato_1 🇨🇿N, 🇫🇷 C2, 🇬🇧 C1, 🇩🇪C1, 🇪🇸 , 🇮🇹 C1 4d ago
Yeah, most people don't really estimate the levels correctly, that's why the CEFR labeled coursebooks are so helpful. I agree with some of the points wholeheartedly, but I'd just want to point out that just a "professional" teacher is not necessarily a guarantee, not everybody has tons of experience with exam preparation and it's ok.
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u/Reasonable_Ad_9136 4d ago
TBF, there are people with C2 certificates who can barely converse in their TL. There are also many people who've spent literally years in a classroom who can barely order food at a restaurant. I do agree that a lot of people massively overestimate their ability, though.
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u/Tometek New member 4d ago
In what language can you pass an official C2 exam without being able to converse, those certified exams include an entire speaking section with a partner... that just sounds impossible
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u/Reasonable_Ad_9136 4d ago
Professional tutors can train their students specifically for that. Those speaking components aren't very variable and they get lots of feedback from students. There's a language teacher who has a YouTube channel (Mr Salas) who has talked about how he was able to do it with students who are barely B2. You can absolutely train to do that without having an genuine overall C2 level, or even that close to it.
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u/Tometek New member 4d ago
Being trained to perform well on a demanding language examination is not faking proficiency. Preparation specifically for the exam (also known as studying) develops genuine language skills. TBH it sounds like you just don't have a certificate and so you're posting hyperbolic comments like anybody can just up and game official C2 examinations with a weak B1 and a guru teacher like Mr. Salas and then stutter when a native speaker asks them a yes or no question. Just go study bro lol
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u/an_average_potato_1 🇨🇿N, 🇫🇷 C2, 🇬🇧 C1, 🇩🇪C1, 🇪🇸 , 🇮🇹 C1 4d ago
unsafeideas is correct most language exams don't have a grammar section, it's about applying it.
being able to pass an exam and actually being fluent enough to communicate or comprehend things in real life are two different things?
To some extent, yes. Especially some English exams (such as IELTS) have some very specific writing styles and a huuuuge industry of expensive exam preparation. And such an approach can produce important disparity between the two.
But other than that, I've observed very solid correlation between the two. The tasks are pretty realistic, you cannot just just "learn for the test". All those people around here saying stuff like "yeah, you've passed C1, but I bet you couldn't understand Peppa Pig!" actually sound pretty naive and should try it themselves.
I’m a native English speaker I’m not so confident I’d pass any exams
Natives don't belong on the CEFR scale. It doesn't apply. Exactly because it is more complex than that, it's not about the grammar definitions.
Many natives with dementia wouldn't pass an A1 exam, but are no less natives. Many low educated natives will kick every C2 learner's a-s in a pub discussion or while talking about their job, but would fail B2 writing themselves. People with more science and technology oriented background would have a harder time with the tasks than people in humanities or in typical administrative jobs.
There are many good reasons why natives don't belong on the scale and why it is totally wrong to say stuff like "C2 is native level, it's impossible". Even some teachers say such nonsense.
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u/unsafeideas 4d ago
CERF tests dont ask you to define grammatical tests. They are mostly about reading / writing / listening / answering at least below C.
C levels are "artificial" imo, it ia about making presentations and writing essays with defined structure etc. Basically, stuff I never do in my own language.
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u/an_average_potato_1 🇨🇿N, 🇫🇷 C2, 🇬🇧 C1, 🇩🇪C1, 🇪🇸 , 🇮🇹 C1 4d ago
Nothing artificial about the C levels, the tested skills are very well transferable to the real life. But yeah, some people don't do much writing or presenting in their real lives, so it doesn't apply to everybody and that's correct. C1 and C2 language exams test whether the candidate could do a qualified job or study in the language.
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u/brocoli_funky FR:N|EN:C2|ES:B2|IT:B1 4d ago
I also think they are a little bit artificial and B2 is kind of the last shared base in terms of formality. Above B2 there is a fork between going into more formal and more advanced topics (what's tested in CEFR levels), vs going more informal/colloquial (not tested).
On one hand you can get to C1 and still miss some words while overhearing two natives speaking to each other very informally, or even just watching a TV show where characters have strong regional accents and mumble a little bit.
On the other hand in real life you don't prepare a speech or write an essay on the spot in free style mode like in the tests. You will gather sources, use a spell checker, rehearse with someone.
At B2 level you write a complaint letter, give your opinion about a topic, recount a movie or tell jokes. C1 is then testing things that many people don't do and not testing things actual people do.
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u/an_average_potato_1 🇨🇿N, 🇫🇷 C2, 🇬🇧 C1, 🇩🇪C1, 🇪🇸 , 🇮🇹 C1 3d ago
Well, my job would really suck at B2, the people actually doing it with just B2 are a rather painful complication.
I agree to some extent about the formal-tested and informal-not tested issue. That's true. But the mistake is assuming people don't use the "formal" stuff in the real life, we do that all the time.
Yeah, a B2 can write a complaint letter, but it will be a totally different complaint letter than the one by a C2 learner.
On one hand you can get to C1 and still miss some words while overhearing two natives speaking to each other very informally, or even just watching a TV show where characters have strong regional accents and mumble a little bit.
Yes, because it's C1 and not C2. Not sure what is your point.
On the other hand in real life you don't prepare a speech or write an essay on the spot in free style mode like in the tests. You will gather sources, use a spell checker, rehearse with someone.
Actually, yes you do. Or at least some people. If you do qualified work, any teaching at work (informal too), anything with a lot of reports writing and stuff like that. If I had to rehearse with someone every prepared presentation and every bit of informal teaching on the spot, I'd be pretty lost.
C1 is then testing things that many people don't do and not testing things actual people do.
Not everyone needs C1 in their foreign language, true.
But it's not academic things that "actual people don't do". And if that's so, it explains a lot about our today's world. I
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u/unsafeideas 4d ago
Artificial as in you need to learn test specific things.
I write in real life ... but not like that. Not at all like that. And I dont read things written in C1 essay style. Not at all. Same with presenting.
Practically, you dont need C1 or C2 to study in that language. Some school ask for certificate as a way to limit number of foreigners. But those skills are not really relevant to actual classes .
That is why I called it artificial.
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u/an_average_potato_1 🇨🇿N, 🇫🇷 C2, 🇬🇧 C1, 🇩🇪C1, 🇪🇸 , 🇮🇹 C1 3d ago
So do I. I also write in real life, I'm working in a foreign language, living in it, and using my other languages too.
I find that the C1 and C2 writing skills get transferred well (as I've said), not that you write essays in the real life. But how to construct a coherent text, how to argue a point, and so on, and also different types of writing, all that is something I use in the real life. Including the language and culture specific elements I had learnt "for the exam". Most books start being comfortable at the C1 level, up to B2 it's much more work. Normal tv shows are C1ish or better too. And B2 speakers at work are a horrible pain and at times even dangerous, given the field I'm working in.
But if we focus on the example of the C1 writing skill, it's "artificial" a bit like writing at school in your native language. Most people won't be writing stuff like essays ever again, but are supposed to apply the skills and practice on other stuff later. You can see it pretty clearly even online, the difference between people capable of making a coherent text without mistakes, and the others.
But those skills are not really relevant to actual classes
That's nonsense. Of course they're relevant, can you really imagine someone without those skills passing normal classes for natives?
That is why I called it artificial.
Yeah, that was obvious, no need for the explanation. You make the same wrong assumptions as most people calling it artificial.
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u/unsafeideas 3d ago
I did not found any of what you write to be the case.
That's nonsense. Of course they're relevant, can you really imagine someone without those skills passing normal classes for natives?
Yes. Not just imagine, I personally know people who did it. I personally studied in 2 foreign languages before I reached anywhere near C1 too. Maybe you need C2 for literature or sometime thing like that. But studying chemistry, biology, physics, math, computer science just does not require it at all.
But how to construct a coherent text, how to argue a point, and so on, and also different types of writing, all that is something I use in the real life.
Except you dont really learn that. Those essays are nothing like persuasive writing. You memorize essay structure test demands. You make sure you put in constructs to give you points. You learn to pick easy to make point rather then actually arguing anything. You concede points you actually believe in, because test structure requires you to do so.
Trying to write something real or something you actually think is loosing strategy, so they train you not to do so.
Most books start being comfortable at the C1 level, up to B2 it's much more work.
I found them comfortable well before. I always liked reading.
But if we focus on the example of the C1 writing skill, it's "artificial" a bit like writing at school in your native language.
I never had to write language test style of essay in my own language.
You can see it pretty clearly even online, the difference between people capable of making a coherent text without mistakes, and the others.
Which has nothing to do with C1 language test.
And B2 speakers at work are a horrible pain and at times even dangerous, given the field I'm working in.
Right now, I work in an international company with international customers. I would be surprised if 10% of people I encounter here could pass English C1. Communication language is English.
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u/Sea-Hornet8214 4d ago
Well, there are people who have passed B2 but struggle to speak their TL. They studied well for the exams.
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u/Reasonable_Ad_9136 4d ago
Exactly. Ironically, OP seems to be overestimating their own level based on a certificate. TBF, I think we all overestimate our level to some degree.
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u/DoYourWork123 3d ago
at no point did I make a claim on my level? I'm not even sure I did well enough to pass the exam? - My point was that preparing for this exam was much harder than I expected it to be. Not saying that B2 is 'fluent or whatever.
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u/Reasonable_Ad_9136 3d ago
My point wasn't that you claimed a certain level, it was that you're putting way too much emphasis on a certification. 'Certificate B2' is a long way short of 'real world' B2.
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u/BikeSilent7347 4d ago
This is the best thread I've ever read on Language learning. This is a very hard truth that most don't want to accept because this place is a toxic positivity echo chamber.
I've seen people including mods put multiple B2-C1 in their flare and yet they write in broken English. This whole idea of competency needs a hard reset.
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u/UnexpectedPotater 4d ago
Completely disagree. Unless you are working as a translator or in a field that is very precise linguisitically, it doesn't matter.
You are also way overfitting your own experience. For me if I'm doing CI, I always verify a sentence I'm not sure on (using mouseover functions) and I have had a lot of success by basically knowing what "sounds right" on the basis that I've heard it before. Now if you plateau your CI you will have problems, however for example I have moved from doing CI on "normal" stuff like casual chats and vlogs into watching investing/history/etc. channels targeted to locals. Using solely this method I've been confused for a local in a 30 minute conversation (dark room).
Also, I believe CI advocates for looking up grammar when necessary. Usually any new patterns are fairly intuitive at this point cause they are a combination of other previous things, but if I do come across something that completely confuses me I stop and break it down, understand the pattern, and then move on.
The reason a teacher won't correct you is that most students act all pissy and awkward when they get it wrong. I have 90%+ success in getting a given teacher to correct me (if they won't I move on to another one) by acting really really grateful. In the beginning I way overdo it to make my point clear and then taper off. Many online teachers and tutors nowadays are working on a class by class teaching basis, so they are trying to not only teach you, but also get you to come back. They can't act the same way as a teacher who has you trapped in a room on a fixed schedule. The pros/cons of this is you have to make it VERY clear what you value, if you tell them "correct me and I'll keep coming back and paying you" most every tutor will do that.
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u/dojibear 🇺🇸 N | fre spa chi B2 | tur jap B1/A2 4d ago
'Passive' CI is one tool, but it must be supplemented with more intensive listening. Understanding ~90% - or the gist- of a conversation almost certainly means you miss important details.
I've used CI for several years, and watched several videos by Krashen. I have never heard the term "passive CI". I don't know who invented that term or the concepts "understanding 90%" and "understanding the gist".
Krashen talks about understanding 100%. It's even in the name: "comprehensible input" means "input that you can understand 100%". Krashen calls it "understanding TL sentences". There is no "only the gist", or "90%", or "passive CI". You don't miss any important details if you understand everything that was written or spoken.
Naturally CI doesn't work if you are doing something else and calling it "CI".
I never do rote memorization of words (flashcards/Anki). I only learn words in actual sentences. That way I learn how each word's meaning (and nuance) differs in each sentence. I can't create my own sentences using words properly until after I know how to do that.
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u/user120822 4d ago
If you understand 100%, it’s not teaching you anything new but can be useful for reinforcing newly-learned concepts. Ideally, you would understand about 95% so that you encounter new words and phrases and also have the ability to determine them through context. (My opinion as a language teacher and learner.)
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u/New-Bottle-6917 N:🇺🇸 Heritage: B2 🇲🇽 L3: HSK 6 🇨🇳 4d ago
There is research that indicates if youre listening or reading things at a 99-100% clip you're automating and increasing the fluency of what you're listening to and reading. Researchers like Paul Nation actually reckons that should make up closer to 25% of your total input time with the language in order to really solidify your current floor in the language
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u/ZeeMastermind 3d ago
So, does that mean you should have a mix of input, then? Some at 99-100%, and some at 90-99% (or whatever)?
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u/New-Bottle-6917 N:🇺🇸 Heritage: B2 🇲🇽 L3: HSK 6 🇨🇳 3d ago
Generally anything above 95% is what's recommended but if you can maintain 98% thats where you get the bulk of benefits
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u/Reasonable_Ad_9136 4d ago
I think by "100%" it's implied that it means "close to." Even natives don't get 100% of everything they hear/read. I'm not sure I've ever read a novel worth reading in my native English in which I didn't encounter unknown words.
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u/zoeybeattheraccoon 4d ago
I have a B2, with a certificate, issued by a government-sponsored language program, so it ought to be pretty legit.
I barely passed, but I passed. And I still had a very long way to go and wouldn't have called myself anywhere near to capable at that point in time.
Therefore I don't think B2 is really that big of a deal.
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u/GraphicsandGames 4d ago
Yeah B2 is a difficult level to achieve for sure, JLPT N1 maps to B2-C1 and it is a very tough exam.
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u/Gilgamesh-Enkidu 4d ago edited 4d ago
People overestimating their level is nothing new.
I passed C1 (even got C2 in speaking and listening (official government administered test) and I literally just used CI, flash cards, and regular speaking. I did do practice tests before the test for a few months before the test. I hadn’t done serious grammar studying or any real focus on flashcards (besides when I started prepping for the test) since being B1 at that point.
I am not saying it’s the be all end all method or that it’s even the most efficient but saying it’s misleading, or that it’s detrimental is pretty silly when there is a rather large portion of people that become fluent through that approach.
And by the way I am slow learner not some language learning prodigy and have ADHD which makes grammar learning crazy difficult for me through textbooks.