r/interestingasfuck • • 12h ago

A large strand of copper bundled wire, and the fibre optic cable that replaced it.

Post image
593 Upvotes

74 comments sorted by

130

u/Mr_Gobbles 12h ago

It's probably an even greater difference now with newer bands increasing the total available light spectrum, increasing wavelength bandwidth on the same cable.

•

u/JCDU 11h ago

By many orders of magnitude yes - and that fibre still has its inner protective jacket on, the actual fibre bit is as thick as a hair, give or take.

Modern fibres are approaching 1Tbps according to a quick google - the fibre will be basically the same as that 1976 one, it's the optics and electronics on the end that has changed massively.

•

u/Mr_Gobbles 11h ago

We need an updated version of this image, with a further comparison of modern values next to it.

•

u/antiduh 11h ago

You would need about 14 Cat 8 cables to hit 1 Terabit, while the fiber could do it sleeping.

What's special about fiber is that there are enormous bandwidths available, so much so that the cable can do many more times what the termination equipment can do. It's been true for a long time that you upgrade your capacity by using the same fiber cable for 20 years and just upgrade your interfaces.

...

By the Shannon Hartly Law, information capacity in bits per second is limited to the Bandwidth (Hertz) of a signal times the Signal Power (watts) divided by the Noise Power (watts). I = BW * S / N.

An O-mode Single-Mode Fiber had a typical bandwidth of about 50-60 TeraHertz. And over distances of 10 kilometers can achieve a Signal to Noise ratio of 1000 to 1 (30 dB).

50 TeraHertz * 1000 / 1 == 50 Petabit/sec.

That's the raw capability of one single-mode fiber cable over 10 km. Modern hardware doesn't get close to utilizing that because it costs an exceptional amount in hardware to even try. But the fiber itself has the capacity to do it.

Modern hardware can do Dense Wavelength Division Multiplexing and economically operate 96 channels with each channel providing 400 gigabit/sec for a total delivered capacity around 38.4 terabit/sec.

...

Fiber is cheating.

•

u/popeter45 1h ago

Just one thing to note is the last part, 400Gbps link use more that one channel even if operating as a single link (I.e. not 4x100 like QSFP112 does)

Learned that from a great Cisco love talk about coherent optics

•

u/antiduh 5m ago

I was mistaken, not O band but c band.

But adapters like this:

https://alistar.ltd/en/product/tunable-400g-coherent-qsfp-dd-dco-optical-transceiver-module-for-c-band---cisco-qdd-400g-zr-s-compatible

Can: * achieve 400 gbit/sec over a single c band 50 GHz channel. * tune to 99 c-band channels.

Combine it with a 96 channel 50 GHz spacing c band multiplexor and you have 38.4 terabits/sec over a single fiber.

•

u/popeter45 1h ago

Network engineer here

Usual “single mode” (thin enough that light takes a single path thru it) cable can do about 3.2Tbps these days if you use the entire C band spectrum of 1530–1565 nm

You can get even more with special single mode cables that are rated for a wider spectrum of S band and L band

•

u/KingZarkon 8h ago

By about 7 orders of magnitude, actually. The fiber in the photo has a bandwidth of about 45 Mbps. Today we can push about 450 Tbps, about 10 million times faster. That's in the lab, but the original photo was from Bell Labs, so that seems fair.

•

u/Key_Watercress8300 9h ago

I wonder how they prevent the lines from breaking when they're so thin. If the internal, important part is about as thick as a hair then wouldn't it be liable to break when bending the cable? Are those internals uniquely flexible, or do they still work with micro-breaks in the line?

•

u/SkyAntlers 9h ago

They’d be run through protective conduits, which would also make locating easier when digging.

They would not work with micro breaks since it would mess w the required refraction index the move light through the cable. There are methods to splice fiber though.

•

u/2ByteTheDecker 9h ago

Modern fibre uses a special kind of glass that is more flexible than you"d expect from the word "glass"

•

u/JCDU 8h ago

The actual glass fibre is quite strong as long as you don't snap it - after all, they make cars and aircraft from resin-impregnated glass fibre.

In the picture the inner you can see is a plastic cladding on the fibre which protects it from most handling mistakes and makes it easier to see & handle. Then you have kevlar strands for strength (if someone pulls on the outside or tries to cut it) and then a plastic outer like a normal electric cable.

In large installations, a big "cable" is pulled in that looks a lot like an old copper cable but is actually just 4-16 empty tubes inside a cladding, then almost-bare fibres are blown through the tubes and spliced in trays.

FWIW I tried looking up a good picture of this but most pictures on the internet are awful stock images that are inaccurate. The AI generated ones that think "multi-mode" fibres have multiple cores are particularly dumb.

14

u/Izan_TM 12h ago

also with newer glass formulations reducing transmission losses

5

u/__g_e_o_r_g_e__ 12h ago

The improvements in the technology of the transceivers will have contributed the most. Wavelength division multiplexing (different colours) added maybe an order of magnitude or so at most.

13

u/jameswalker50 12h ago

A perfect example of how technology made things smaller, faster, and more efficient at the same time.

20

u/Mental_Thing_7899 12h ago

The biggest monster was 9600 cables... (4800 pairs) . The biggest I had to fix was 8400 .... we ended up trashing it and replaced with 5 smaller ones.

•

u/Nonstopshooter21 11h ago

We found one of those once with a 349 tooth bucket. locate was 32ft off. Cleared excavation path so operator was just going at it. made it about 3 buckets in before he found the mother load of rainbow roots.

•

u/Mental_Thing_7899 10h ago

Yep the bigger they are the deeper they went. And reason is simple.... to not it make it is easy to steal. We had to deal with organized Strippers capable off... no, not those! Cooper strippers! ... stealing cables with thousands of pairs in it at once. They would dig at 2 places at the same time, cut both ends, one of them pulls, sometimes just by tow, sometimes they would have DiY pull and roll systems.

•

u/Nonstopshooter21 10h ago

Damn thats crazy... yeah this pack was only 5-5.5ft deep if I recall correctly. Shit was fuckkkked. Locate company that did it was small and caused them to file bankruptcy after the court case was finished lol.

•

u/Dirty-M518 7h ago

I work in the telecom industry/phone factory. Im in Supply chain…never seen a 9600 here, but I have 3600pr copper right outside my window and its chonky. I also have some 864f right to it, about as thick as your thumb.

•

u/Mental_Thing_7899 5h ago

There's 5 of them in Nottingham. Longbow exchange.

•

u/Away_Media 11h ago

This was an interesting post.

If you plug the absolute best commercial equipment into 100 feet of coax, you get 10 Gbps. If you plug the best commercial equipment into 100 feet of single-mode fiber, you get over 100 Tbps. Fiber has at least 10,000 times the data capacity of coaxial cable over that exact same 100-foot run.

•

u/Bdr1983 11h ago

Yup, and the repeaters(EDFA's) needed to keep the signal level good enough are far between, and barely take up any space.

•

u/StrikinglyOblivious 7h ago

To be fair, this pic was before multi-spetrum fiber.

•

u/Effective-Two-1376 11h ago

How the hell did they terminate that cable and get the connections correct?

•

u/opeth10657 10h ago

Everything is bundled by color. That huge cable is actually a bunch of smaller bundled cables inside the same protective sleeve

•

u/noaccessories 11h ago

If there was a break, one at a time, and yes, it took a while...

•

u/Abracadaver14 7h ago

It's not entirely accurate to say the fibre optic replaced that bundle of copper wire. That bundle of copper represented a lot of potential distinct point to point connections while the fibre optic is a single point to point connection.

•

u/Desperate-Abalone954 3h ago

While this is true, there is a great deal of space in a fiberoptic cable to send multiple signals at once. This is called multiplexing, and basically works by sending light pulses of different colors through the cable at the same time so they don't get mixed.

The cable in the picture is also a feeder cable, which are meant for long distance transmission, not a distribution cable, which are meant for your house, and more in line with what you're describing. So it's entirely possible that that big cable in the picture did get replaced by  a handful of the fibers shown (possibly even by the fiber in frame)

•

u/popeter45 1h ago

Look up WDM and specify DWDM used for trunk links like this, the single fibre can carry dozens of individual links separated by wavelength so a simple prism at each end can be used to separate to customers

4

u/According-Post-7721 12h ago edited 9h ago

Not in Germany ☝️, we have Technologieoffenheit! 😌

•

u/tjorben123 6h ago

same capacity in 1976. today, with multi laser multi entry and exit-angles and the faaar superior computing power, id say we can easy put 100gigabit through that fiber in real world appliance. in universitys i assume they could put something like 5-10 terrabits through.

•

u/axiomatic13 2h ago

IDK man, the copper was shark proof? /s

1

u/ToastWastesEnergy 12h ago

Did it work better?

6

u/tooclosetocall82 12h ago

Our entire communication infrastructure relies on fiber, so I’m going to say yes.

•

u/TerrorSnow 11h ago

Fiber will always be superior to copper for data.

Fun / sad example: Germany.
Due to stupid lobbying (because when has lobbying ever not been the reason for garbage decisions) in the 80s, we built our internet infrastructure with copper instead of fiber. Now we're struggling to replace it with fiber. We're struggling to get decent internet speeds in many places because there's just copper. We have problems left and right because of signal noise, old hardware causing noise or other problems, capacity, availability...
Thankfully in my city, the city itself is paying to get fiber into more streets.

•

u/ToastWastesEnergy 11h ago

That good then. #CRTbetterthanLCD

•

u/dalgeek 10h ago

The opposite thing happened in the US in the 90s. There was massive investment in fiber with tens of billions of dollars given to ISPs to run fiber everywhere they could. First, a lot of the ISPs took the money and didn't actually install the fiber. Then DSL became popular but it doesn't run over fiber, so every neighborhood that had freshly installed fiber needed an additional DSLAM to terminate the fiber connection and provide DSL over copper pairs.

•

u/TerrorSnow 2h ago

The funny part about that is: the same corporations that didn't invest in Germany, invested in the US.

•

u/KarlAu3r 8h ago

To add to this. The chancellor responsible also had friends in the private TV sector who relied on the copper network

•

u/JCDU 11h ago

Massively so - no crosstalk, no interference, unaffected by moisture, unaffected by lightning strikes, goes round corners easier, weighs less, takes up less space in the duct, easier to install (many fibres are blown into pre-installed tubes using compressed air - install the tubes once you can add/replace fibres as needed).

Also as the tech improves you can get far more data down the same fibre just by plugging it into better equipment on either end.

•

u/Bdr1983 11h ago

The technology in fiber optic communication is going so fast, many advancements aren't even rolled out because someone came up with an even better option than before. It's insane how much data you can squeeze through such a narrow piece of fiber.

•

u/ThrownAway17Years 11h ago

You guys should see the tech that’s developing right now in the fiber industry. 2.0mm cables are being developed, allowing for higher throughput panels without having to swap out entire assemblies or panels. Petabits per second.

•

u/Bajanboy246 11h ago

When i see things like this, I always believe we are just mere years off of the impossible. What would be a medical invention or procedure that would equate to this ?

•

u/Bdr1983 11h ago

There is a chip that can diagnose the presence of childhood leukemia(and many other things, but this one is the thing we're most proud of) in a drop if blood in a few seconds, much earlier than regular blood tests can.
It uses a laser and a spectrometer to detect the cells and determine whether they are affected or not.
It's in trial stages.

•

u/Kiubek-PL 8h ago

theranos ptsd

but likely real this time

•

u/Optimistic-Cat 2h ago

I literally thought this was describing theranos

•

u/Bdr1983 7h ago

Except that you need to tune your system for a specific cell/disease

•

u/myztry 3h ago

There's amazing things like Elon getting his hair back magically.

But unless you are Elon rich, you're not getting it anyway.

•

u/DeepFinish2895 11h ago

They have portable x-ray machines now, I imagine the originals were nuts?

•

u/DeepFinish2895 11h ago

Ventilator v irong lung?

•

u/Prestigious_March749 8h ago

The ancient rainbow root.

1

u/Quiet-Estimate7409 12h ago

I grew up in the early 70s, and we actually had the telephone switchboard in our house for the operators. There was an identical cable running under and into our house for the switchboard.

2

u/g0atdude 12h ago

I don't get it, the operators were working in your house? why?

•

u/Quiet-Estimate7409 10h ago

My mom was one of the operators, and many of her lady friends. The switchboard took up pretty much an entire room. After technology advanced in the 70s, these switchboards became obsolete. The framework for the switchboard assemblies were built from 1" thick hardwood boards. My dad dismantled them, repurposed all the wood into shelving and other projects and tossed the switchboard stuff into the woods behind our house. Again, the 70s.

In 1984 or 85 my friends and I found all the old hardware. It was kinda cool. Not knowing what it was, I started dragging it home lol.

•

u/tooclosetocall82 11h ago

Maybe they mean a PBX? Typically those we used by offices to allow multiple simultaneous phone calls and direct dial to a desk, but I suppose a home could have had one too if they wanted and could afford it.

•

u/Jinzul 11h ago

A house was a great place for a switch board back in the day, especially if the operator was expected to be onsite/oncall.

-5

u/leon_reynauld 12h ago

A bit misleading, undersea fibre has a considerable protective cover. Though its still much smaller then the copper equivalent.

9

u/mrplinko 12h ago

But the post didn’t mention under sea cable.

6

u/RubiksCube9x9 12h ago edited 11h ago

It's not misleading because that's not an undersea copper cable, just a high pair cable >600 pairs. Even if all pairs are being used for data, the 1 fiber can still carry more.

2

u/TestyBoy13 12h ago

I don’t know if that copper cable is an undersea cable, but I know fiber undersea cables have many multiple strands and protection and they are still only the width of a garden hose

•

u/Sonderbefehl937 4h ago

Technology we reverse engineered from the Roswell alien spacecraft crash in 1947

•

u/crunkful06 8h ago

That’s a telecom cable, not internet.

•

u/MattyS71 6h ago

Internet was mostly on copper cable for decades…high cap circuits, ISDN, 56k, DSL, ADSL, T1 etc all working on old lead sheathed paper pulp twisted pair cable that was placed before the 1920’s in my area. I’m sure it worked on the much newer plastic insulated cable in the picture.

•

u/crunkful06 6h ago

It hasn’t been this type of cable and decades. It’s all single core coax. This that’s pictured in the picture is two pair wire that’s used for old copper wire telephones not used for Internet

•

u/Quiet-Estimate7409 7h ago

I never said it was internet cable.

•

u/MattyS71 6h ago

A cable like that likely served internet to hundreds of homes in the late 90s early to mid 2000’s.

•

u/crunkful06 6h ago

No, it was used for telephones just because you could use dial up on. It doesn’t mean that’s primary use was for Internet

•

u/MattyS71 5h ago

I didn’t mention dialup. You’re missing an entire evolution of internet and how it has been provided over the last 30 years.

•

u/crunkful06 5h ago

Bro, whatever you want to do to try to defend your point whatever but the reality is that the application is that we went from two stranded Internet to fiber that is not the case I’m not gonna argue with you anymore

•

u/crunkful06 7h ago

You did not disclose it either, in fact it’s heavily implied

•

u/CombatMuffin 6h ago

No? Anyone who knows about the topic slightly, knows that copper and fiber optics are used for much more stuff than just the internet. They wouldn't call it, an "internet cable", and OP didn't.

•

u/crunkful06 6h ago

Reading comprehension is dead in the new days because I didn’t say he called it. It’s heavily implied the copper cable that is pictured is two strand telephone wire use primarily for telephone later for dial up, it’s primary purposes for telephone communications and not clarifying that and do a side-by-side comparison of two strand wire to fiber which fiber is use primarily for in internet communication it was a false comparison and a lot of people don’t know the infrastructure of coax cabling or that fiber is used and all coax Internet providers, except for the last leg