All the whining has lead into homogenization of racials.

[u/bywaterboy]

[u/Trymv1]

Troll Regeneration: Health regeneration bonuses increased to 20% (was 10%).

"And theres nothing you can do about it.."

[u/Fragllama → u/Trymv1]

You know what? I’m going to regenerate even harder.

[u/moeking → u/Trymv1]

Troll warr with the Regen legacy talent will be unstoppable lol

[u/ChibiHobo → u/moeking]

It's actually kind of entertaining as a prot warrior. Something like 16 hp5 in combat at level 20 plus the regen talent and a Trolls Blood Elixir for good measure is wild. Throw in victory rush and it feels unstoppable.

[u/parsonsparsons → u/Trymv1]

Love this meme

[u/lil_paulie_r]

As a Troll main I support the buff to regeneration

[u/NemeSisWiberg → u/lil_paulie_r]

The only buff horde got rest was nerfed heavily

[u/lil_paulie_r → u/NemeSisWiberg]

Taz, but more importantly, dingo

[u/tinylittlebabyjesus → u/lil_paulie_r]

Just make all the Troll racials into some form of health regeneration. /s

[u/lil_paulie_r → u/tinylittlebabyjesus]

I'm here for it. Give me gear where half the Stam is converted to spirit and just make trolls giga regen tanks

[u/moeking → u/lil_paulie_r]

Spirit warrior is back on the menu boys!

[u/Beastmode3792 → u/lil_paulie_r]

Not sure if it will make any difference at lvl 60, but for leveling that regen is going to feel insane. Going to try fury warrior with blood craze and troll racial

[u/underthingy → u/Beastmode3792]

Troll warrior that stacks spirit has 0 down time while leveling.

[u/randomguy301048]

Saddest part is tauren losing their +hit. I havent checked but does it still give +hp?

[u/alaserus → u/randomguy301048]

Losing Hit for 2% crit damage feels horrible

[u/randomguy301048 → u/alaserus]

I was pretty excited for the hit tbh. But I'm pretty sure it used to only be +5% hp originally so extra stats is extra stats

[u/weckerCx → u/randomguy301048]

man fuck the 2% crit damage... so boring and worthless

edit: the crit chance change opens up more gearing choise for humans and orcs. The tauren hit chance kind of did the same. I was looking forward more options in terms of itemization. It was a nice racial because I could swap the hit on gear for some more secondary stat. The nerf not just made tauren have the worst dmg racial but also took away this aspect.

[u/xClubberLaingx → u/randomguy301048]

Yes still 5% total health. 2% crit-damage/healin.

[u/Frankenberg91 → u/xClubberLaingx]

Good for Tauren shaman I think.

Also, does the new plainsrunning stack with wolf form?

[u/Troybone → u/Frankenberg91]

It does not, just stacks with mounted speed buffs

[u/Malohn]

Crit damage is fucking boring.

[u/SiFixD → u/Malohn]

It's also objectively worse than crit in classic because you are not hitting 50% crit chance to make doing 202% crit damage on par with a flat 1% crit chance.

It's 0.2x as effective at 10% crit, 0.5x as effective at 25%, finally breaks even at 50% and then outscales beyond that but 50% crit is an insanely high amount for classic WoW without worldbuffs, we'd need to be in better than naxx gear.

[u/MourningsOwn]

Is it weird to have preferred the Tauren 1% hit chance? It was unique, and for players who want a bit more flexibility with gear it was good tbh. At 60 you have to hitcap, and this helped you choose your gear more freely.

[u/E-2-butene → u/MourningsOwn]

Nope, definitely not. 1% hit is a bit stronger on nearly all scenarios (assuming you re-itemize so it isn’t wasted) and it’s a really nice bonus while leveling.

2% crit damage is so aggressively mediocre, especially without world buffs, I doubt most people would even notice it.

[u/Zorpheus → u/E-2-butene]

People were saying the 1% hit was bad because you hit cap endgame anyway didnt understand that the 1% hit allows you to run different gear/talents which would've upped your character strength, aswell as being a massive levelling QoL.

[u/Income-Rude → u/E-2-butene]

I fear that is the point

2 percent crit damage / healing is a joke so if you hit for 100 you now hit for 102? If you hit for 500 you now hit for 510? In what world does that make any true difference?

They’re killing strategy and eliminating decision points so that the transmoggers don’t have to feel like they are missing out.

It doesn’t even make the game better for them. They still have all the same choices, but now they can rest easy that people who don’t want to play like them have one less way to do that.

[u/HazelCheese → u/Income-Rude]

2% crit damage is just "no racial". It basically doesn't exist.

[u/Yawanoc → u/HazelCheese]

That and the 5% increase to beast/elemental damage.  Sure, it looks neat on a DPS chart in a boss fight, but it’s not noticeable in the open world.

Dwarves get Stoneform as their only racial and they’re gonna like it!

[u/GoSaMa → u/Income-Rude]

It's even worse than that. Crit damage is 200% baseline. You swing for 50, it crits, deals 100 damage. 2% critical damage takes you from 200% to 202%. You swing for 50, it crits, you deal 101 damage!

[u/vowelqueue → u/MourningsOwn]

To some degree I'm more upset at Orcs not having axe specialization anymore. It was nice in Classic to not compete with orcs over axes, I was happy with my swords.

[u/Round-Dragonfruit996 → u/MourningsOwn]

not at all in my opinion it was really nice for Warrior for leveling especially, now we have… 2% crit damage because… reasons

I felt like hit% also fit Tauren, kind of an ability to be clear-minded and be able to have better accuracy in combat as a result

[u/Pkock → u/MourningsOwn]

I 100% preferred it because I could makensome gearing choices which might mean I could skip at least one pre-bis everyone else is rolling against.

[u/denten62 → u/MourningsOwn]

No and since tauren have less class of options giving them slightly better gearing options late game seemed fine

[u/Odd-Bandicoot-9314 → u/MourningsOwn]

I guess part of it is that healers don't really get anything from the racial, and along with them changing mace spec I wonder if they're trying to avoid racials that for certain class/specs aren't worth anything

[u/LetsGoHome]

Endurance also gives tauren +5% max health.

[u/Faibl]

Thats definitely a nerf for tauren, though neither of those represent 'endurance'...

[u/Andvari_Nidavellir → u/Faibl]

The Plainsrunning changes were needed though.

[u/Sp0range → u/Faibl]

I think its on top of the stamina buff, which is where the title came from

[u/plznobanplease]

That 1% hit was looking pretty juicy for my Tauren Warrior :(

[u/OliveSoda → u/plznobanplease]

Yeah u was gonna go tauren shammy because I was sick of seeing ES miss 

[u/vowelqueue → u/plznobanplease]

Yeah that feels bad, but i'll be war stomping yo ass every 90 seconds now so thats cool. It's legit one of the most fun active racials.

[u/Oxwagon → u/vowelqueue]

Just wish it didn't reset swing timer. Feels like I'm half-CCing myself.

[u/theShetofthedog → u/Oxwagon]

Yes, i wasnt using it that much cause reseting a 3s swingtime wasnt very worth.

[u/RollTideGaming]

I was really excited for my 1% hit Tauren Warrior racial :(

[u/SankenShip → u/RollTideGaming]

Same :(

[u/FabianFoley]

This is why followers in SWTOR got changed to all being the exact same. People complained and all the fun, unique stuff got removed.

Now everything is boring.

[u/IrisofNight → u/FabianFoley]

Ironically If Followers in SWTOR had been changed in Beta, we might've kept the ability to lose and kill followers, which would've been a positive overall for the stories and gameplay.

[u/newebay2 → u/FabianFoley]

Flat stats were never fun, there was nothing interesting about 1% hit or 2% crit.

Active is what makes it more interesting

[u/Aarmon]

This type of whining is exactly how we reached retail, in some regards.

Homogenization should be the antithesis of classic+

[u/nano_peen → u/Aarmon]

Make choices matter.

[u/Farigiss → u/nano_peen]

In Classic you picked human for warrior because of the weapons racial. That's the opposite of choice.

I'm happy to be rid of powerful racials.

[u/CharacterSalad369 → u/Aarmon]

Don't worry, the whining will be even higher now because of these nerfs.

[u/Aarmon → u/CharacterSalad369]

Imo I'd like to see whining, to get pronounced differences in gamplay additions, from race to race.

[u/Expert_Royal705 → u/Aarmon]

It's funny you guys talk about "homogenization" as if classic era population isn't 80% human warriors. Talk about homogeneous.

[u/echolog]

Personally I'd prefer if they just got rid of all the damage buffs and gave everybody unique non-combat abilities which were more interesting than powerful.

[u/Substantial-Newt7809]

Wow the thing that people said would happen happened. It's almost like we've been down this road with Blizzard before.

Well done to the forum warriors for making the game worse.

[u/Blutrache_tot → u/Substantial-Newt7809]

Yeah, as soon as people started chanting for Blizz to listen to feedback I got downvoted to hell for commenting listening to feedback is what got us to where retail is. Wow players hate wow. 

[u/Santafire → u/Blutrache_tot]

This happens because Blizzard lacks clear vision for what is good for the game. Feedback is supposed to point out blind spots. Instead we have development by backseat devs who all have different asks. Whatever gets through might be good or might make the game worse because EVERYTHING is a problem to someone.

Someone out there wants to get rid of mana scaling with int, or get rid of down time, or to have flying mounts, or wants death grip on DKs. You're playing next to someone at all times who has their controversial opinion. I'd love to see draenei in the game, for instance. Somehow.

Its up to the devs to see what passes the sniff test and dismiss anything that isn't important from the room.

And this gets worse because fuck have the developers committed to some terrible ideas for WoWF. They need pushback and hard on a lot of topics and they're too unsure to distinguish between disasters that need attention and nonsense.

[u/JVIesmerized → u/Blutrache_tot]

Retail forever soon

[u/omgitskae → u/JVIesmerized]

Forever is absolutely going to just become an alternative timeline retail. It’s impossible to avoid it when you’re targeting and listening to the same audience.

Forever should have its own sub to differentiate the audiences and they should have put more effort into making it unique. Unfortunately it’s too late for that. They are stuck trying to balance keeping the sub included in the normal wow sub, allocating cost to new assets (fallback being reusing scrapped/retail assets), and filtering through what feedback is from their intended audience (people who quit retail and no longer play) and those retail players that just want whatever the newest thing is (which will be retail as soon as there’s a half decent new patch).

They have set themselves up for failure.

[u/yall_gotta_move → u/Substantial-Newt7809]

Some Changes TM: welcome to the infinite forum-lobbying rat race

Enjoy defending your class and playstyle from the 24/7 agendaposting

[u/GhatzLoch → u/Substantial-Newt7809]

blizzard listening this much to cry babies is a really bad sign, game hasn't even launched yet

[u/ianxplosion- → u/Substantial-Newt7809]

They’re going to social media outrage this shit into WoW 2.0

[u/RegisterLucky2583 → u/Substantial-Newt7809]

As soon as it became about "appealing to everyone" I knew. Thats exactly how retail became what it is.

[u/MSchulte → u/Substantial-Newt7809]

The best part was everyone saying they weren’t playing those races either way but felt they were worse than the others. If I do end up playing I was planning on doing dwarf sham but every patch seems to get further from what I’d hoped for.

[u/Maysock]

I have always enjoyed the flavorful racials (water breathing, plainsrunning, wisp) over the damage ones, and Orc/Human were obviously overtuned from the start, so I'm fine with this.

I think removing the 1% hit from Tauren was a bad move, but other than that, this is fine.

[u/Shot_Safe_8244 → u/Maysock]

I like flavourful racials when everyone has them.

I don't like flavorful racials when I get flavorful racials and John human gets to be the terminator in pvp 

[u/Nervous-Estimate-286 → u/Shot_Safe_8244]

My flavour appears to be dirt (dwarf)

[u/Sebolmoso → u/Maysock]

Bad moove you mean

[u/skinwalked]

Touch of the grave nerfed to complete irrelevancy

[u/GhatzLoch → u/skinwalked]

1 second to 25 second has to be a world record nerf? I can't think of a single MOBA/MMO game that ever nerfed any spell so hard, its like a 2500% nerf to put a number to it

[u/Aggressive-Juice4162]

id argue the 1% hit was better than 2% crit dmg

[u/jkiddingx → u/Aggressive-Juice4162]

Everyone would argue that.

[u/Helivon → u/jkiddingx]

and was anyone arguing tauren were too strong?!? very odd they get hit vs orc

[u/Mike_Izzone → u/Helivon]

Orc did get hit just not as much as I’d expected. Longer cd on bf and no immunity on shatter curse anymore.

[u/thumbtaks → u/Mike_Izzone]

And significantly less damage reduction

[u/jkiddingx → u/Helivon]

Do they just want us all to be human and orc? I don't get it honestly.

[u/Cautioncones → u/Aggressive-Juice4162]

this was a huge nerf

[u/Old-Tie8770]

Weapon racials always sucked IMO

[u/Pisshands → u/Old-Tie8770]

I'll take generic crit chance/damage over crit chance with a specific weapon type any day.

[u/MilitarisedAutism → u/Pisshands]

Yeah I don't like feeling like I have a useless stat unless I use a specific weapon.

[u/addressthejess → u/MilitarisedAutism]

There is a world where weapon specializations in their original form could feel good and provide interesting gearing/buildcraft options, but that world is not located in the same galaxy as anything WoW.

[u/Xandure → u/Old-Tie8770]

I really liked the weapon racials that had different options, like when Orc had Ace and Fist weapons, and Gnomes had daggers and 1-Handed Swords

[u/rufrtho → u/Old-Tie8770]

if there's gonna be racials at all then i think it's really really cool that you see different races with meaningfully different weapons, even just aesthetically.

[u/misterrpg]

I hate it so much. 2% crit, 2% crit damage, 5% damage to beasts, they couldn't think of anything else???

[u/digital-bandit → u/misterrpg]

Ikr, the worst thing is that they're being so uncreative.

[u/GhatzLoch → u/misterrpg]

its quite a bad sign to see them being so uncreative already, and struggling this hard to balance racials which should be so easy

makes me kind of worried for the next few months

[u/jackofwind]

I mean this is a pretty massive racial upgrade for my Dwarf Hunter boys.

[u/Andvari_Nidavellir → u/jackofwind]

To be fair the 2% extra damage on crits is so weak you’d never notice it anyway.

[u/Falmon04 → u/jackofwind]

For real, whine all you want about "homogenization" but the racial changes are 1000% better gameplay wise.

[u/mak484 → u/Falmon04]

I think it's valid to argue that giving multiple races the exact same racial is boring. And are you actually arguing that 2% crit damage is something to be excited about, especially when humans now have a flat 2% crit chance?

[u/NoStand1527 → u/mak484]

do you know what's more boring? getting rejected from pugs because they assume that since you're not in the right race (ie: human warrior) you were not serious.

I'd vote for removing ALL dmg racials, give racials like shadowmeld or cannibalize to each race, and let people play whatever they like more visually

[u/Major_Oak → u/NoStand1527]

I feel like if you’re being rejected from a pug because of your racial they probably have brain damage anyway and you’d be better off avoiding that group.

[u/vowelqueue → u/Major_Oak]

Even with the completely busted weapon skill racials in Classic I find it hard to believe someone would get rejected from a pug for not being the right race. I played a Tauren warrior and there were probably 2 very hardcore guilds on my server that didn't accept "meme races", but otherwise you could get a spot in any guild. And pugs wouldn't care at all.

[u/mak484 → u/NoStand1527]

100%. Damage racials are a crutch.

[u/The_Taskmaker → u/mak484]

The only racials that are the exact same across races are 5% dmg to beasts for trolls and dwarves (Tauren have 5% health with their crit dmg)... Anyone legitimately arguing we have homogenized racials is being obtuse.

[u/Belfind → u/jackofwind]

yeah, the dwarf change is just a much better racial overall. and while it is "crit" its damage not chance, so it is sort of unique. I do think the Tauren racials were great and should've stayed as is tho. they just copy pasted tauren and dwarf ones, and it feels bad

[u/Blurbyo → u/Belfind]

2% Crit multi is effectively 0.

On a hot that Crits for 1000 it will have you 20 more damage.

[u/Belfind → u/Blurbyo]

2% crit mult is a heck of a lot more than what I would get when I dont have a mace equiped as a hunter, ever.

[u/Zorpheus → u/jackofwind]

Its a massive downgrade if you can read.

Sure the old one was only 1% crit locked to maces, but 2% crit damage is alot worse than that.

Mace spec 1% crit for dwarves was bad before but atleast it had niche uses for enh with specific weapons. Now, you just dont have a damage racial.

[u/jackofwind → u/Zorpheus]

I said Dwarf Hunters.

Hunters can’t use maces.

“If you can read.”

[u/HueyLewis303]

damn i didnt think it would start this early. no race should share any racial in this version of wow. if they can't solve this then the racials should be completely revamped to not have anything to do with damage, healing or damage reduction. just flavor abilities

[u/AlphaKlams → u/HueyLewis303]

I'll always contend that undead cannibalize and underwater breathing should be the bar for racials. Mostly QoL and flavor with at most some niche combat utility when used creatively or in the right situations.

[u/Esarus → u/AlphaKlams]

Undead cannibalize is pretty damn good, it now also restores mana. It's basically a mana potion every 2 minutes for a Healer that runs an entire dungeon.

[u/Andvari_Nidavellir → u/AlphaKlams]

Underwater Breathing should also be infinite. I think we will still see non-Undead brought to raids and BGs.

[u/PlaceInner9846 → u/Andvari_Nidavellir]

In retail they do infact have infinite breath.

[u/P_jammin- → u/HueyLewis303]

They could take the 2% crit dmg if I could brew beer as a unique secondary profession for Dwarf.

[u/rconsumer → u/P_jammin-]

Someone let this guy design facials

[u/Bio-Grad → u/rconsumer]

He’s been practicing on your mom

[u/rconsumer → u/Bio-Grad]

Lmao I see it now

[u/TougherOnSquids → u/Bio-Grad]

Got his ass

[u/Amazing_Vanilla_7816 → u/HueyLewis303]

Lowkey like this idea, I think giving racials combat benefits will always make people wanna pick that race for higher power or benefit in pvp. People will not pick a race based on class fantasy if its straight up worse than others in pvp and pve. Like I played nelf warrior this beta (regret) when gnome is much better cuz of escape artist but fuck gnome theyre so ugly. If im going to be pve focused atp I feel like going orc is still best bet. Wtf is 2% move speed and the shittiest ability in the game shadowmeld will do for me as a warrior?

[u/wrongygg]

A lot of people was sleeping on the tauren hit chance, opens up a lot more gearing options having something as simple as 1% hit. Was going to be my tank pick but not so sure now... Cheers ya moaners

[u/Unseen_gerbil]

Of course, playerbase thinks they want unique classes n races but they actually don’t. Their min max mentality won’t allow it. There is a reason why retail balancing is the way it is. It’s not because of Blizzard, but the players themselves. Blizzard’s only fault is catering to those players.

[u/bibittyboopity → u/Unseen_gerbil]

I want unique racials like warstomp and stoneform.

Not these random damage racials without any racial flavor.

[u/kerenar → u/Unseen_gerbil]

Yeah, this copy/paste shit is lame. Two races with the EXACT same racial, just a little extra crit damage?

At least crit chance is noticeable because you notice when you get crits, but 2% crit damage is 100% irrelevant to making players feel like they have a cool racial. They will never ever notice a 2% increase in crit damage. Wish Blizz would design racials without worrying so much about stupid min/max balance, just put cool racials in. Make them all noncombat if you have to, idc.

[u/cat-from-the-future → u/Unseen_gerbil]

Same shit happened in LOTRO, small group of players cried and cried until every class is DPS now, every class has utility stripped now, every class is just a parse machine with little differentiation (though ironically it’s still completely unbalanced).

[u/Income-Rude → u/cat-from-the-future]

I find it hard to believe that the min maxers sweats are the ones pushing this. Those guys make all of their decisions based on what is optimal. They have a demonstrated willingness to sacrifice aesthetics for strategic advantage.

It’s the people who want to be the best without having to make that sacrifice who calling for the classes and races to all be homogenized. The types of players who want the fantasy of being a rogue but are upset that they don’t have the mobility of a mage.

[u/zrockk → u/Income-Rude]

Agreed, not the min maxers. They would play what's best no matter what it looks like

[u/Landolover0911 → u/cat-from-the-future]

I Wonder if the dungeon xp crying group also a small group of players

[u/MeeseChampion → u/cat-from-the-future]

Sounds a lot like a certain retail game I know.

[u/Wild_Plate_8553]

NOT THE COWS MAN WTF

[u/Striking-Field7344]

There is a nuance here that many commenters fail to appreciate.

Objectively worse racials is bad design.

Racials that are better in some situations and worse in others is good design.

Racials that are equal in most situations is bad design.

Wow classic has plenty of the first category, wow forever tries to lean into the second but sometimes misses and falls to the third.

But the first is bad too, let's not pretend otherwise.

[u/Tromster]

Eh just for the passive damage racials, theres still unique active racials for each race

[u/krispy86]

Yes. Of course this happened. Blizzard can't help but listen to the loud whiny babies.

[u/rogbog22]

These are significantly worse than straight crit chance, bonus.

Orc and human are still a cut above anything else, this balance pass was a big whiff.

[u/Zadiuz]

Guess I’m in the minority for wanting racials to all be QOL. You shouldn’t feel like you have to gimp yourself by playing a non meta class/race combo.

[u/TheseNamesDontMatter → u/Zadiuz]

You're not. The classic "no changes" community is the minority, but holy shit if they aren't vocal about anything and everything.

[u/ConnectionPopular211]

Dwarfes needed upgrade, but got nerfed lmao

But thanks for deleting weapon racials

[u/2ndDaybreak]

This thread is cracking me up. Thousands of angry people over which character other players will choose in a video game

[u/chaoseffect616]

Good riddance to weapon racials.

[u/Andvari_Nidavellir → u/chaoseffect616]

Truly. They sucked. Big W to get rid of them. Though I prefer they removed all the “+crit chance” and “+crit damage” stuff.

[u/Esarus]

It's absolutely insane how they nerfed the racial for Dwarfs. As a Holy Paladin, +2% to crit heals is WORSE than +1% chance to crit.

[u/Dragomirov13 → u/Esarus]

And Tauren lol

[u/Jazzlike_Falcon8733]

Tauren is a bit of a downgrade no?

[u/Creative_alternative → u/Jazzlike_Falcon8733]

Tauren is dead in the gutter crit damage is one of the worst stats in the game

[u/DirkaDurka → u/Jazzlike_Falcon8733]

A bit?? 😂😂

[u/outl0r]

Blizzard need to regrow a pair and stop listening to the masses and make their own game like they used to

[u/TypicalxooT11]

Yup. All these clowns crying and crying ruined the game.

As expected.

This is why retail absolutely fucking sucks.. 25 years of man children crying 

[u/TragicIcicle → u/TypicalxooT11]

Bingo

[u/gatorsfan5192]

Boy... I get less and less excited for Forever with these boneheaded ass changes. I wish Blizz would just double down on their vision and tell the rest of us to get bent. But nope, Blizz is going to try to make everyone happy.... Which is how we ended up with Retail.

[u/Andrewskyy1 → u/gatorsfan5192]

While I agree that no one wants retail.. The ultimate problem is the Devs don't have a solid vision for Forever & it shows.

[u/No_Consequence7064]

We could change it so they all math roughly equal… OR hear me out… FLAVOR ONLY RACIALS!! NO POWER

[u/BadSanna]

What?!?! No hit? And not even critical chance, but 2% additional crit damage?

Tauren are dead. 

WoW F

[u/NoMeat9096]

I wish MMOs just ignored tiny details of balance like this.

I get that it needs to be somewhat balanced, in that you can't have a race or class that's just useless, but I hate that the entire experience is so heavily moderated around making everything viable for everything. I would like if it was a more laid back, community focused thing. Less competition. Less focus on min-maxing. Just a rolepalying game.

[u/S-192 → u/NoMeat9096]

I agree, but this sub was having an aneurysm a few weeks back about "imbalanced racials".

And today we're hating on streamers dictating changes to the game, but last week people were praising Blizz for bringing streamers onto their podcast and listening to community feedback through those people.

Blizzard cannot win. People are going to hate on this no matter what. The community screams "TURN LEFT!!" and then two weeks later the community screams "Why did they turn left???! I hate that they didn't turn right!!"

I love imbalance. Homogenization and convenience suck, and I hate that I have to share this game with people who genuinely think balance is king.

[u/xanas263 → u/NoMeat9096]

It could be if the playerbase actually wanted that. It has been proven again and again that the WoW playerbase, especially the Classic playerbase, wants to optimize everything. It's even more tragic in Classic because of how brain dead easy the game is. You have absolutely zero need to optimize to this level, and yet classic players still demand it.

[u/NoMeat9096 → u/xanas263]

I get that everyone enjoys different things, wants different things from their games, but I do wish more people would try just... vibing. Not because I think it's somehow objectively better, but because I think some people might be surprised.

I remember leveling my first (or second?) character in original WoW: Undead rogue. I had no idea what I was doing. Never looked at a guide. Leveled subtlety spec because it seemed cool and all shadowy lol. Got told late into the game I was leveling a "PvP spec," and should swap to combat, and later to assassination for end game. Had no idea why. Didn't care. Kept going. Had a BLAST lol.

[u/Varanite]

It's not even crit chance, it is crit damage. This is a straight up nerf.

[u/jntjr2005]

Bro the weapon ones were trash

[u/OrbeckV]

Tbh stuff like human priests or orc mage/lock not even having access to their weapon racial wasn't good to begin with.

[u/Fantastic_Score_2964]

Weird. Everyone here said “play whatever you want the race doesn’t matter” and “wow forever will probably get patched making races different at different stages of the game”

Now everyone is doom posting about this change like it’s going to kill the game. Yall really just….

[u/BoyzNtheBoat]

I mean it makes a lot more sense than needing to make sure there is a comparable sword/mace/axe for every raid tier.

[u/knivkast]

Thank the gods weapon racials were dealt with! Freeeedoooom!

Literally zero races have the same racials, OP is being disingenuous.

[u/Lootman]

Oh yeah, my enjoyment on the game hinged on if dwarves have increased stats only maces or not.

[u/tycoon39601]

It’s actually so funny to see this post bashing changed racials and then I read the patch and everything dumb got fixed and everything fun buffed across the board. Tauren are faster even on mounts, nelf are faster even on mounts. Huge buffs for skyborne, gnome eureka, removal of weapon specs.

[u/Nervous_Abrocoma8145]

Bro they’re just lazy as fuck and unimaginative that’s the real problem, not because people giving their opinion. This is 0 effort.

[u/Emergency-Friend-291 → u/Nervous_Abrocoma8145]

Exactly. Feedback is necessary, these solutions are simply the worst possible scenario.

[u/ShlungusGod69]

What are yall talking about? Every race still has 3 completely unique racials that are nothing alike. Would you rather all Humans have to use Swords? because that just leads to 'homogenized' weapon choices for them. This game needs to come out already.

[u/Picard2331 → u/ShlungusGod69]

I cannot fathom the people hyper optimizing to the point of playing a race they dont like or completely ignoring certain weapons.

Guys. This game is not hard. It has never been hard. It will never be hard. Play whatever fucking race you want on whatever class you want with whatever weapon you want.

My fucking Mythic raiding guild on retail doesn't even go this hard on optimizing every little thing.

[u/Colonel_Planet → u/ShlungusGod69]

it literally leads to homogenized choices because warriors of different races would have different bis weapons, now theyre all the same thing.

[u/New_Egg3747 → u/Colonel_Planet]

As opposed to the vast majority of Warriors being the same race and thus using the same weapons anyway? honestly as far as Warriors goes this doesn't really change anything but as usual classic Warrior mains have MCS, pretty huge win for things like Human Priest and Dwarf Hunter though.

[u/Telyesumpin → u/ShlungusGod69]

Not all would have. My human Rogue will be a Dagger Rogue. I was going to roll an Nelf Warrior but now it will be another Human.

45-50% human population on Alliance coming soon. 9% Nelf, maybe 4% Dwarf.

[u/MelyaVova → u/Telyesumpin]

So 37% gnomes? O_O

[u/Kiwimann]

Meh. I didn't care before and don't care now. Other stuff to worry about :;p

[u/theflexfather]

Except human is still better xD

[u/rogbog22 → u/theflexfather]

Yeah I'm not sure why they were allowed to keep the full 2% crit, baffling.

[u/SpoonGuardian]

Good? That shit was terrible why are we acting like it wasn't

[u/ImpulseOrange → u/SpoonGuardian]

A THING CHANGED! THE GAME IS OVER!

[u/Big_Bake_2961]

wow forever retail

[u/Its_Pearson]

Literally no one was asking for a change to endurance though. 90% of feedback was "Orc racials too strong" and "weapon racials suck". This is them not listening to feedback and just taking a shotgun to the whole thing.

There's also some good changes in there too which you conveniently ignore in your post

[u/outofscenery]

these are pitifully weak racials compared to human getting 2% flat crit btw. almost every class has 100% crit dmg bonus talents, the flat crit is objectively better than 2% more crit dmg + healing scaling.

this is an improvement over tying racials to weapons, but human is still miles ahead of every other race for no reason. just bring the crit down to 1%.

[u/Graceful_Crash]

The pussies prevail again

Downvote me- idgaf. The point of classic is for there to be differences and have choices matter. More retail homogeneous BS because of whiney retail losers invading what they will play for 3 weeks and move on

[u/willium563 → u/Graceful_Crash]

Thats not true, I play retail and I didnt want this change. I want to play forever as its different to retail but each day it moves closer and closer to retail without the perks of its gameplay and difficulty so its looking less and less appealing.

[u/PlaceInner9846 → u/Graceful_Crash]

First of all someone isn't a loser for playing retail.

Second of all retail players dont care about classic+

Last but not least: rent free

[u/Friendly_Office_7392]

is there a worse racial that has ever existed than 2% increased crit damage
i mean fuck me thats terrible

[u/RoninJon]

I think people forget that retail became what it is in large part due to player feedback.

[u/Dahns]

Why change Mace Specialization when it was the other racials that were considered bad ? (Beast slayer, Treasure finder)

[u/Lars5621]

Yup the death of racials as expected

[u/Starwalker- → u/Lars5621]

The damage racials are dying, which is amazing. Make racials all non-combat based. Nothing sucks more than being pressured into a race for damage bonuses.

[u/findorb]

They just nerfed horde races so hard that ally is better by a long shot

[u/The_Dark_Tetrad → u/findorb]

Seriously. Why did they feel the need to buff human, gnome, and night elf?

[u/Boethion]

Easily the most boring replacement, why give half the races the exact same passive?

[u/pdgggg]

Peeps are going to make Forever into retail by 3rd patch! Not even expansion- patch.

Blizzard and players alike.

[u/Correactor]

God forbid we have the freedom to use whatever weapon we like instead of being pushed down an arbitrary path that makes every drop feel bad.

[u/KJTB]

Weapon racials sucked, I’m glad they’re removed. I’d rather this than what we had before. I do think that Tauren should have kept hit chance though

[u/toasty5566]

The WoW community has a habit of doing this

[u/whoxcaresxixdont]

called it and tried to warn people.

[u/Emmafrost-OG]

Didn't the added hit + stam create a world where tauren warrior was the best choice for a tank? I don't see where the problem is. Now a 2% to crit damage, will pretty much ensure no one wants to roll it outside of the speed racial. So they just made taurens as useless as classic again? Make it make sense.

[u/Zlazher]

This is a good change. Nobody wants to feel like they rolled the wrong race down the road when a legendary sword drops.

(And you know guilds would have prioritized chase items based on weapon racials, no matter how pointless it is)

[u/EarthlingIThink]

I've been a part of everything Warcraft related for about 32 years now

These changes are great, QQ cry more

[u/RattyRaven]

This is great! While it is possible that blizzard caved in- it’s also possible that they looked at the numbers and (unsurprisingly) decided they needed dwarfs to be played more.

[u/Dragongaming117]

not gona lie i was hoping for more interesting stuff, at least troll and tauren are cool.

[u/Methee2]

Is a shame but was for the best really. Orc is most likely still the strongest by a mile though

[u/Radak23]

Ive played since vanilla and have never chosen a race over racial ive never seen any of them so powerful that it makes some unfun to play or be told you cant raid or anything because of them. I guess I dont get the big deal

[u/Diclonius666 → u/Radak23]

Literally warrior and rogues played human dude to how broken weapon skill was. If you chose anything else you automatically lost 10% damage at LEAST

[u/myIDisthisone → u/Diclonius666]

Humans +5 weapon skill was massive in vanilla

[u/Mixels → u/myIDisthisone]

So was rep gain bonus. A nice little pinch of sprinkles on top right there for ya.