r/auslan • u/seventeenfours • Sep 16 '26
My friend wears the niqab but wants to learn Auslan.
Given Auslan depends heavily on NMF, such as facial expression and mouth gestures, I assume she will simply have to exaggerate the rest of her body language and posture to make up for it?
Would she still be understood?
48
u/Frosty-Thought-8591 Sep 16 '26
Auslan, and basically every other sign languages, relies heavily not just on posture and body movements but facial expression AND movements to convey a lot of information. Without visibility of say, the mouth, a lot of context will be lost. For example here in Adelaide we may say B-B and depending on the mouth movement it will mean either Brighton, Brisbane or something else. Many signs are like this, having the same handshape and movement but have a different facial expression.
During the pandemic there was a lot of distress in the Deaf community due to mask mandates restricting ability to communicate.
If the niqab covers the eyebrows significantly then much tone and questioning ability will be totally lost. If you were to sign YOUR NAME WHAT? You need to furrow your brows as it is with all open questions.
Furthermore facial expression are used to modify verbs to explain how something was done. I could sign WAIT and with my facial expression signify it was fine, I was content or I could sign it so I was impatient and grumpy about it. Same sign, different expressions.
I won't say it's impossible, there's plenty of signs with no specific expressions, but it will significantly limit the ability for others to understand what they're saying.
30
u/Frosty-Thought-8591 Sep 17 '26
Just to add to this.
I don't want to disrespect their culture. What they are able to sign would be quite helpful in certain cases and there are ways around it. I know of a person with partial facial paralysis who makes it work but they needed to make some adaptations.
9
u/Glass-Buyer-8205 Sep 17 '26
Exactly. More words may be needed to get the point across, but it's just a question of making it work. I think especially if she wants to do it in order to help communicate within a group who also wear the niquab; I imagine having a hearing impairment would make it difficult to go out and quite isolating.
7
u/Frosty-Thought-8591 Sep 17 '26
Having read through the comments it does seem like people have and do make adjustments to signing in order to communicate with that limitation. I personally have had to try communicate in sign with a niqab or at all really!
I think it's probably just important to understand that people will possibly struggle at first to follow along with some of the ways Auslan is used until they get a grasp of whatever adaptions are made, hence the intention of my original reply, breaking down where there will be some difficulty.
9
u/commentspanda Sep 17 '26
Having experienced issues around mask use during and since the pandemic….a little bit of Auslan is always helpful but the Niqab will impact communication for them. They need to understand this going in and be prepared. If they chosoe to attend classes they need to be prepared for how frustrated others may get and also how blunt their Deaf trainer might be (lots of people are not prepared for just how direct a Deaf person can be in that setting) and that it’s not a comment on their culture or religious choices.
6
u/Frosty-Thought-8591 Sep 17 '26
Agreed, it's definitely a good thing, but I wanted to be clear on how it will impact their ability to be understood and I think the mask mandate issues are quite a good reference for that. Catch me fingerspelling every damn thing in those days 🥴
8
u/PM-me-fancy-beer Sep 17 '26
I love this question because I’d never thought about it until a few minutes ago, and now I’ve got some resources to dive into.
Learning Auslan is a valuable thing. Some hearing people can’t speak aloud and/or prefer not to, and Auslan is their primary communication method. Understanding what a person is saying can be very helpful even if you respond verbally.
I’m a hearing person but prone to loosing my words, particularly when I’m overwhelmed or tired. My Auslan is very limited, but for whatever reason my brain finds key signs a lot easier than words. E.g. I’ll mindlessly sign “finished” before while I’m trying to remember the verbal word. (Toddler mode activated lol)
Someone I work with a bit has a speech impediment along with dyslexia, and sometimes avoids social situations if he doesn’t have someone to translate signing or clarify what he’s said verbally. We’ve taken to using speech, keyword signs and finger spelling (like I said, very limited Auslan here lol) which has made things a lot easier.
3
u/aislingplath Sep 17 '26
I'm autistic and I wish I knew auslan. I tried to learn but they spoke so much about facial expressions and stuff that I gave up. I lose my words too and it gets really exhausting. I use "finish" sign with my dogs all the time 😅
5
u/FM_Mono Sep 17 '26
Can I be honest with you? I am also autistic and learning Auslan was incredible for me. Yes, the language relies heavily on facial expressions, but something that helped me was remembering that being autistic, I am already great at copying the facial expressions of others. I have been masking for such a massive portion of my life, and that really helped overcome fear of that part of learning the language. I don't know if that information helps you at all, but once I got used to the idea of copying to learn, Auslan was basically my perfect language.
2
u/kiraleee Sep 17 '26
Also autistic, and I feel you! I tried to learn Auslan at TAFE and ended up dropping out after less than a week because I kept getting told off for being unable to control my facial expressions while signing (much like I can't control my facial expressions while speaking).
I still practice at home though, because I really want to learn. I know my own disability means I might never be fluent, but I figured, even if my facial expressions don't match up great it's still an invaluable tool for communicating with d/Deaf people, as well as other autistic people who learnt Auslan for speech issues.
3
u/Frosty-Thought-8591 Sep 17 '26
That sucks. TAFE should be more neuroaffirming as many hearing signers also have autism. There is supposed to be reasonable accommodations put in place for someone like yourself.
And yes absolutely, the ability for more people to sign a bit it's a huge step up in terms of linguistic accessibility.
I swear Auslan meetups these days are mostly queer people, autistic people and Deaf people 😂
1
u/kiraleee Sep 17 '26
Yes I fully agree!! At this point it's just weird when there isn't, considering the massive overlap in community lmfao
But I will say, this all happened in 2023 and I actually did end up complaining to the school. Their response wasn't great so I escalated it to the human rights commission (cause I'm stubborn like that) and their next response was much much better. Among apologising and other things, they introduced the hidden disability sunflower program & neurodiversity training, added a new senior role to mentor the student equity dept, and added an accessibility resources portal for all staff. All things they probably should've had before, but still, it's definitely one of the better responses I've had to a discrimination complaint.
So yeah, I might personally prefer now to just teach myself, but I do think most places wouldn't be like that (at least not anymore) so I hope one bad experience doesn't deter other autistic people from learning Auslan formally!
0
u/TheSunflowerSeeds Sep 17 '26
Sunflower is a tall, erect, herbaceous annual plant belonging to the family of Asteraceae, in the genus, Helianthus. Its botanical name is Helianthus annuus. It is native to Middle American region from where it spread as an important commercial crop all over the world through the European explorers. Today, Russian Union, China, USA, and Argentina are the leading producers of sunflower crop.
10
u/Gaythoughts04 Interpreter Sep 17 '26
Same rules as others with NMF and Signing issues (such as people with Cerebral Palsey, Stoke Victims, Amputees ect) make adaptations.
You cant be an interpreter, but you can still sign. It might be hard for a stranger to understand her at first but it shouldn't stop her from learning.
4
u/niomystica Sep 17 '26
I'm glad you beat me to this point. The signing community contains multitudes, with enormous diversity in ability to sign by the red book (apart from the fact that Auslan is a living language that is constantly changing, like all languages do). More experienced speakers will be more able to understand someone with a covered face, but I agree that she'll be able to be understood
4
u/monstertrucktoadette Sep 17 '26
Yes it's fine, a lot will be understood through context, and can be shown through other nmf
3
u/Gaythoughts04 Interpreter Sep 17 '26 edited Sep 17 '26
https://www.facebook.com/share/v/1QxPCwpQhD/
Link to a Muslim Deaf Woman 🧕👆
2
u/Gaythoughts04 Interpreter Sep 17 '26 edited Sep 17 '26
Check out people who sign while scuba diving 🧏♀️
7
u/Velma_Joy Sep 17 '26
Just a note that I think FB showed me you real name and real FB account as a suggested friend. Maybe the link needs to be -identified..
The Internet sucks now!
1
u/Gaythoughts04 Interpreter Sep 17 '26
Hey! Thank you for letting me know! I did my best to clean the link but let me know it that is still an issue. Yikes!
3
u/paddingtonau Sep 17 '26
I know someone who did their Scuba ticket and was annoyed they didn’t just use Auslan
2
u/Legitimate-Eye-17 Sep 17 '26
I think that they will just need to understand the linguistic aspects of Auslan are likely to conflict with their cultural practices. And it will fall on her to mediate those conflicts.
2
u/TashDee267 Hearing mum of Deaf son Sep 17 '26
Way beyond my knowledge but I’ve found the deaf community to generally be very adaptable.
Without completely doxxing myself I’ve seen a need for Auslan - Saudi, Yemen, Iran, Iraqi, Afghan, Pakistani Sign language terps and support workers, particularly in Melbourne, so there must be a place for your friend.
But as a hearing student I don’t know how those accomodations would be made.
Best to reach out to either Melbourne Polytechnic (if in Melbourne) or Auslaners Facebook group.
1
u/AdSilver8465 Sep 17 '26
Most women in niqab will be happy to take off the face covering when communicating with other women. There are still many valuable spaces for this person to communicate, when not in the presence of men.
1
u/Think-Conclusion1518 Sep 19 '26
Yes to this! She may want to communicate with other women/children without her niqab on
1
0
u/FriendshipFit858 Sep 17 '26
Not wearing a niqab is a valid option. Seeing peoples faces will always be important to communicate effectively.
3
u/RozzzaLinko Sep 17 '26
Why is this downvoted lol. If someone wearing boxing gloves was asking how to communicate with auslan, the answer would be to take your gloves off 1st. How is a niqab any different.
2
47
u/polyglo01110100 Sep 17 '26 edited Sep 17 '26
It’s may be worth reaching out to Dr Ayah Wehbe, she’s a prominent member of the DHH Muslim community. She has done intensive research into expanding and diversifying the Auslan lexicon and experience of Muslim woman in the Deaf community. I’m sure she had experience working with people who have niqabs. I wish your friend lots of luck! It’s so worth having more diversity of people who know Auslan.