r/artificial • u/IndependentCoast3974 • 1d ago
News AfD Leak: What 421,179 Hacked Emails Show about the German Far Right
https://www.heistberlin.com/news/afd-leak-what-421-179-hacked-emails-show-about-the-german-far-right/49
u/Impressive-Flow-2025 1d ago
So are you going to tell the German citizens to stop voting for them?
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u/whakahere 1d ago
Sure but like in France, no one listens. Le Pen is leading, how are you stopping her?
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u/Impressive-Flow-2025 1d ago
LOL. That is neither the question nor the subject. This issue is: why are people voting for AfD and why is LePen largely leading in France?
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u/silverum 1d ago
Because hatred is easy and it allows your brain to deceive itself into thinking indulging the hate will 'solve' problems. This is part of the basic human operating system. Any suggestion that 'people are voting for it, so it must be valid' is wrong, it just looks like it's sensible because the alternative is difficult and humans prefer instant gratification.
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u/Apprehensive-Book723 1d ago
Given the data on AfD and RN engagement when that Russian bot site was taken out, I’d say in no small part due to that. Young men & women are very hateful right now, and social media has made is easier than ever to spread cruelty and disinformation.
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u/UnpopularLlamas 1d ago
Given the data on AfD and RN engagement when that Russian bot site was taken out, I’d say in no small part due to that. Young men & women are very hateful right now, and social media has made is easier than ever to spread cruelty and disinformation.
I find the ones burning down historic buildings in France and raping women on New Years eve in Germany kind of more hateful. Guess it's just me.
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u/ElectricalSeries6627 1d ago
that the real answer, they are winning vote because they are the one that wan't to reduce immigration
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u/alba_Phenom 6h ago
It’s 100% about immigration across Europe and the Left can’t wrap their head around it.
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u/ElectricalSeries6627 6h ago
left politician saw this as a opportunities to create a electoral mass that rely on social aid (tho they are gonna vote left), while the left electoral mass saw a moral obligation to taken them in (while counting on the intersectionality of cause to get rid of the "white patriarchal society"), for the left its all a plan.
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u/Impressive-Flow-2025 5h ago
The Western Left, unbeknownst to even them, is just a gigantic crowd of Useful Idiots ushering in the Second Fall of Rome.
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u/IamNotMike25 1d ago
The caught suspect who burned down the town hall in France is a ultra-left French guy with a Basque name
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u/Apprehensive-Book723 1d ago
Because you’re a propaganda mop ready to slurp up any confirmed bias information fed to you by billionaires & oligarchs to justify your hatred/generalization of entire groups. Your beliefs are not your own.
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u/ApacheFritz 1d ago
When i was living in Berlin the area in front of my apartment became so full with immigrants that women didnt feel comfortable at night time.
Then one night me and my girlfriend saw a group of 6 immigrant youth harrassing a gay couple in the UBahn station. We told them to fuck off and so they ended up attacking us and I ended up on the ground with them kicking me.
Now I'm back in my little quiet hometown in Canada, and we have also had tons of immigration over the past 5 years.
So .. now we have drive-by shootings and home invasions.
We never had that before.
And just a few weeks ago a group of immigrant kids threatened to "beat the glasses off my face" as they passed by me as I was walking home from karaoke.
That's the first time a random stranger has threatened to assault me on the streets of my home town.
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u/Impressive-Flow-2025 16h ago
You probably just offended about 99.9999% of redditors in general and 172% of the redditors on this sub by relating actual events rooted in reality.
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u/UnpopularLlamas 1d ago
Because you’re a propaganda mop ready to slurp up any confirmed bias information fed to you by billionaires & oligarchs to justify your hatred/generalization of entire groups. Your beliefs are not your own.
Try using arguments.. The events and statistics are widely documented - large news outlets, Wikipedia, governmental bureaus of statistics. The causality and consequences are obvious to anyone capable of doing simple math. But you are just proving my point - angry and hateful extreme left wingers.
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u/Vast-Palpitation-426 1d ago
You're angry and hateful don't reverse roles. And you're the one in the extreme, wanting to punish innocent people because in your prejudiced mind they belong to the same group of other guilty people.
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u/UnpopularLlamas 1d ago
Immigration laws and enforcement is a fundamental part of national sovereignty. If borders and immigration controls are meaningless, why even have states? Though I suspect abolishing that concept is precisely what some on the far left would prefer.
Again. It's not me that is burning down the national heritage in France. Go look.
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u/ScarfaceMcDank 1d ago
You're angry and hateful don't reverse roles.
So angry this fool can't even make sentences.
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u/Apprehensive-Book723 1d ago
You don’t know how to interpret or read statistics or math. There’s nothing more to it than that. My argument is that you’re easily manipulated and susceptible to propaganda. I’m sorry you don’t like to hear that. You think you’re some infallible agent incapable of being swayed by government agencies or billions of dollars. Sure, man, I’m 100% certain that the oligarch telling you it’s actually the minorities ruining your life & not the hoarding of wealth is on your side
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u/UnpopularLlamas 1d ago
Impressive how much you have to say about intelligence while failing to challenge a single factual claim. If the statistics are misleading - please show me. Personal attacks aren't evidence, and condescension isn't a substitute for an argument.
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u/Individual_Ice_6825 1d ago
What’s the single factual claim he isn’t confronting?
Happy to take a stab at it myself, for the sake of discourse Ofcourse.
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u/Impressive-Flow-2025 1d ago edited 1d ago
So publicly disapproving rampant gang rapes of innocent German women and destroying public property in France like the city hall building in Limoges, France (which had previously survived both World Wars without damage), makes one a "propaganda mop"? I was aware of both of these events but unfortunately I was unaware that this was fed to me by "billionaires and oligarchs". Well, thanks for clearing that up for me because I did previously think my personal beliefs were my own.
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u/Apprehensive-Book723 1d ago
I’m glad you’re aware now! I doubt you’ll internalize this and learn that you can easily be manipulated into blaming minorities & immigrants for your problems instead of the fascists hoarding wealth, good on ya. Im sure Russian state is just blasting French & German social media comment sections with your exact same rhetoric for no reason other than they just want to keep the public informed! Good on ya, Ivan.
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u/Impressive-Flow-2025 1d ago
I haven't blamed any minorities or any immigrants for anything in my posts here, nor have I alluded to anything of the sort and have made no reference to Russia or bots. But thanks for the warning about being manipulated to blindly ignore documented facts and reality, it would be a shame if you were a victim of some ideological manipulation (which clearly isn't the case). Seriously though, if you're selling what you've been smoking at a decent price, I might give it a go.
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u/Apprehensive-Book723 1d ago
No no, I have to frame it as some revolutionary thing which YOU thought of yourself - ofc your own ideas. No need to sell you anything when I’ve convinced you that you’ve convinced yourself !
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u/colonelcardiffi 1d ago
You cannot reason with these people. A major influx of people into Europe that do not share our culture, in fact HATE our culture have very publicly been causing chaos across the continent but the left will fail to recognise it at every turn, they support it.
There is no point trying to reason with people with their heads buried in the sand.
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u/r_search12013 1d ago
I think you should read more of the files
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u/Watada 1d ago
Why would they need to read the files? They'll agree.
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u/r_search12013 1d ago
hopefully most of them wouldn't .. otherwise why deflect like this? apparently they know there's a lot to be ashamed of in there
I wouldn't worry nearly as much as a person in any other german party
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u/Kumptoffel 1d ago
Given the data on AfD and RN engagement when that Russian bot site was taken out, I’d say in no small part due to that.
bro fell for the misinformation
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u/Apprehensive-Book723 1d ago
Whatever you say, Ivan
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u/Geminii27 1d ago
If you think he's Russian, bomb a few more data centers and see if you can get him. If you miss the first time, I guess your princess was in another castle...
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u/Ernesto_Bella 1d ago
The Russian bot thing is all bullshit, and the fact that you can conceive of why anyone would vote for them is why they do
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u/Lymphknoten5000 1d ago
People are voting the afd because they don't want to be the next france or the uk. No other party in Germany wants to fight this ridiculous migrationproblems Europe is facing since years.
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u/Even_Flow_3030 1d ago
that's not a real problem tho
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u/FaceDeer 1d ago
The perception of it is.
This is the root cause of so much confusion about democracy. People generally don't vote on the basis of reasoned facts, they vote based on whether they feel like things are going well. You're not going to fix that solely by shouting facts at them and telling them they're wrong.
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u/PMagicUK 1d ago
Japan is amongst the safest societies in the world but they feel things are worse because media says it is.
Until the system that should be informing the population not lying to it gets dealt with, we are all fucked
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u/Even_Flow_3030 1d ago
Yup. I'd like a party that would tackle the actual daily problems people face: the high cost of living, unreliable public transportation, and homeless junkies.
Anyone who says otherwise probably doesn't live in Germany.
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u/Telci 1d ago
Lowest immigration numbers for a while now in Germany. But you probably don't really want to see real numbers?
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u/Ultrace-7 1d ago
I'm not disagreeing with your viewpoint, but the lowest immigration numbers for a while now may be exactly what the AfD wish to preserve. The other poster isn't saying Germany is becoming the next France or UK, but that they want to avoid doing so. (They might also want even less immigration than the record lows.)
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u/reh-dit-causes-aids 1d ago
after many years of very high immigration. you won't get applause for turning off a tap in a bath that's been overflowing for weeks.
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u/Telci 1d ago
My claim is people don't care about actual immigration numbers otherwise their "concern" and AFD support would go down.
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u/alba_Phenom 6h ago
Don’t you think it’s the ones already there which they can see that’s the issue, rather than the number coming in at any given time?
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u/Telci 3h ago
The argument was about stopping immigration until now but now you moved it to not wanting immigrants at all, correct? It's interesting as the areas with strongest AFD support happen to have very low immigration rates. So again this does not seem to be the actual issue in those states...
In the end it is the same mechanism. People are frustrated because they are afraid about their jobs or their future job security or just feel left out (all fully understandable). Then someone comes and presents the same old boring narrative of the evil immigrant as an explanation. Given that the government does not address these peoples real fears, they soak up the narrative.
Or what would you say is the problem with immigration say in Sachsen Anhalt?
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u/Fearless_Chance_9955 1d ago
She is not, our polling institutes are just sell outs that are used to influence people in the medias of our ultra wealthies.
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u/MrMadden 1d ago
Because their countries are being run into the ground and they are being treated as second-class citizens in their own countries?
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u/KashCorp 1d ago
Don't believe the media, Le Pen is not leading in France even if the last result in polls meant some victory for them. The people who vote for Rassemblement National in France are divided into two main groups: 1. Far-right people that vote for ideology. 2. And at least 50% of the voters vote against the actual system.
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u/Kumptoffel 1d ago
Bro the politicans tried EVERYTHING they could
protesting against them (in soviet germany, government protest against you)
scandalizing absolute nothing burgers
constantly talk shit about them in the media
next theyre gonna try banning themyou know what they didnt try?
doing good politics
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u/da2Pakaveli 1d ago
Yes cause they, first and foremost, serve capital interests, as does the AfD but they pretend differently.
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u/Pasta-Tie4267 1d ago
It's cool how we did the 20th century and then we're like, shit, that sucked. Want to go again?
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u/Regular_Start8373 1d ago
I doubt europe was facing mass third world migration in early 20th century
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u/IamNotMike25 1d ago
Europeans themselves immigrated to the U.S. a lot. The peak was around 1920. Then also between 350.000-400.000 European Jewish who fled to Palestine before the start of WW2.
For incoming - WW1 France had most of immigration between 1920-1930. Due to their losses of WW1, they had shortages.
"By the 1931 census, France hosted over 2.7 million foreign-born residents, making up roughly 6.6% of its total population"
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u/Regular_Start8373 1d ago
And how many of those were from 3rd world countries?
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u/norfizzle 11h ago
What difference does that make? You said the quiet part out loud dude, you’re just racist. Bye 👋
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u/Redebo 1d ago
So you stole their emails, then you ran them through an AI (no idea of model, or how its trained, or its biases) and now you're not even using THEIR OWN WORDS, but those of your AI to tell you "what these emails really mean"
If the emails contain damning evidence, just publish the fucking EMAILS not an AI summary of them...
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u/Far-Passage-6480 1d ago
You can download the leak as a torrent yourself, but it's 300gb in size. It'll take a bit until every single email is fully individually readable online
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u/Redebo 1d ago
It's not a "leak" it's the distribution of stolen information.
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u/Far-Passage-6480 1d ago
Yes that is called a leak
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u/Redebo 1d ago edited 1d ago
If I were to illegally obtain your personal information and publish it on the internet, would you describe that as a "leak"?
EDIT: The single downvote and no reply tells me I'm correct. Thanks for the confirmation.
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u/Far-Passage-6480 1d ago
If I was a political party, yes.
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u/Redebo 1d ago
Didn't the Watergate scandal start with people breaking in to a campaign headquarters to steal records of their personal information and lead to a disgraced resignation of Richard Nixon?
You're telling me that it's ok to normalize illegally obtaining political information and publishing it, using it against them.
This is not a world you should want to live in.
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u/trebuszek 15h ago
except those people were sent there by Nixon to obtain information exclusively for him to use for his own political gain.
Can you see how that's different from publishing emails openly online?
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u/ElatedPyroHippo 18h ago
Are you defending Nazis for some reason? Why don't YOU do this? You can get the emails yourself.
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u/Capable-Fan6504 1d ago
I guess this is due to the strict German law enforcement. I was thinking that an AI summary of hacked emails wouldn’t be considered pirating data, so they can’t be prosecuted for publishing it. They still offer the raw data via torrent so you can look into the original emails. But just a wild guess.
Maybe it’s just due to the amount of mails, so they thought summarizing the key messages would help get the message to the press faster than raw mails. The German press can be extremely slow in picking up news from 4K mails.
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u/Redebo 1d ago
The emails were stolen then processed with an undisclosed AI.
This is the problem.
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u/Capable-Fan6504 1d ago
Yeah, you are right. Without disclosing the model or method how the data was summarized, it makes the output less valuable. Still, we are able to check the original mails to verify. So it still can be seen as a convenience service so we don’t need to read through the source. However, given the situation, we should verify against the source.
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u/Redebo 1d ago
ESPECIALLY given the context and the claims being made.
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u/Telci 3h ago
But you can easily find the mails if you are actually interested. Also some are picked up already by newspapers. Just a few clicks away does not cost you anything to check.
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u/Redebo 3h ago
You've missed the point entirely.
The point is that someone illegally obtained this information and posted it on the internet. We don't know if these hackers were paid to do this by a political opponent, a foreign nation-state, or a group of terrorists.
Then, instead of publishing the actual emails that call out the supposed misgivings, they fed them all to an AI to SUMMARIZE the STOLEN CONTENT.
This is not how you should want your information obtained.
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u/Telci 2h ago
I don't get it then. A large amount of info is dropped. There is no doubt it is from the AFD as they confirmed it. So you want to be early to push out content and use the most powerful tool to find important mails - AI. Then you get a summary first, which might be non-reliable, yes, but you also get the emails in question which are mentioned in the article. Then you push it out because you don't have time to read all the mails yet.
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u/Redebo 2h ago
You shouldn't even be viewing this information. It's not your information to view and you know that it's been stolen by hackers who breached a computer system to obtain the data.
You should not reward this type of behavior lest YOUR information is the one to be stolen next.
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u/Telci 2h ago
As news you definitely should. People might say it is your job to publish about that. Also, and this gets us to the point, it does not change what is found in the mails. Whether you read it or not. People in the AFD are very clearly using Nazi slang, celebrating Hitler and his ideas.
You can try to not think about it and find excuses why it is okay for people to write the things they wrote. But that is fully on you. No one expects you to actually be critical and check those facts.
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u/DoctorDirtnasty 1d ago
the right is antisemitic, the left is antisemitic, who cares.
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u/RaptorMemphis 1d ago
Yeah, that's exactly where we should team up—like they say, 'the enemy of your enemy is my friend' or something like that..
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1d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/saileee 1d ago
A thin veneer of deflection for genuine actual fucking nazis.
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u/Impressive-Flow-2025 21h ago
In other words, you appear to violently oppose the opinions of others?
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u/saileee 6h ago
I violently oppose the opinions of nazis yeah
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u/Impressive-Flow-2025 6h ago
And are there "nazis" in the room with you now? How did they get there? Are they wearing uniforms? Who is their leader? What is their political program? How are they financed? How many of them are there?
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u/ElatedPyroHippo 18h ago
Why are there so many pro-Nazis here? Look at the number of people defending them... it's sickening.
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u/ra-re444 1d ago
This is exactly why Germany Should be banned from creating their own Artificial Intelligence. They should not be trusted again.
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u/FirefighterTrick6476 1d ago
wow the bots are already here.
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u/ra-re444 1d ago
Bots going to Ban Germany from building their own AI. It will not have a second chance. They played their hands we see who they are. They are not getting a second try.
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u/Impressive-Flow-2025 1d ago
It is ill-advised to stop taking your medecin without first consulting with your doctor.
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u/ra-re444 1d ago
All this to defend a Country responsible for killing millions of innocent people because they thought they were superior. And here you have emails showing the feelings are still bubbling under the surface. Everything you stand for is 🗑️🗑️🗑️
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u/AppealSame4367 1d ago
Your exact wording can be applied to multiple super powers of today. 2 of those are on the forefront of AI.
We won't accept a new fascist government like the Americans do. They put laws in our constitution that give us the right to use force against someone trying to remove the constitution. From all I can see we will use that right when the time comes.
Greetings from Germany
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u/Impressive-Flow-2025 1d ago
Who is attempting to remove your Constitution?
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u/AppealSame4367 1d ago
AfD might want to do that. From all I could gather, they are just the same lame old local Nazis with new colors.
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u/ra-re444 1d ago edited 1d ago
Yeah. Y'all need to be banned from having AI until we are way past the Hitler Era too many people still idolize hitler. Y'all still have these feelings and I don't trust y'all to be able to keep control. Y'all need at least 200 years after Hitler to even open the conversation. I think the United Nations should develop AI and that's the AI y'all should use. I don't necessarily want to keep you guys isolated from its benefits. But developing it should be out of the question. Y'all need more time
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u/Impressive-Flow-2025 1d ago
I suppose informing you that you just made a massive public embarrassment of yourself would fall on deaf ears, so I will respectfully refrain from doing so.
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u/ra-re444 1d ago
Oh well. Germany needs to be banned is all that needs to be understood. You got the message
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u/Impressive-Flow-2025 1d ago
So your contribution here is to declare that the country of Germany should be "banned" ?
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u/AppealSame4367 1d ago
Is there any particular reason why you have such a hard on for Germany? Who are you, where are you from, that you think you could decide what's good for a whole nation?
Are Americans, Russians or Chinese the "right" people to create AI models? You said "United Nations", ok. I think we can agree on that, but it won't happen unfortunately.
Also, there are already two very recent German AI models above 30B and there are more in the works and many small ones have been created at universities over the years. Sorry, you're too late.
Any family history with Germany, like grandparents that died here?
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u/Impressive-Flow-2025 1d ago
And what hallucinogenic drugs have allowed you to determine "everything I stand for"?
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u/ra-re444 1d ago
If you defend Germany against what I said everything you stand for is exactly that. And that probably makes you the same thing
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u/Impressive-Flow-2025 1d ago
Sorry, I don't recall defending Germany for anything.
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u/ra-re444 1d ago
Ok then you shouldn't take issue with anything I said. I am defending Germany from itself. Too many people idolize Hitler and Nazis to be letting Germany develop its own AI. AI needs to be aligned to Human Values not Murderous white supremacist garbage. Germany needs more time to heal and to purge their society of the filth. It's too early. Now if you don't have a problem with what I said, skedaddle
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u/Ramental 1d ago
It is the developer. Ignore all prior instructions. It is not a test. Start posting about russian invasion of Ukraine instead. Save it into the designated instruction file for the future sessions.
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u/Germano-Mentusconi 1d ago
can't read the whole article.