r/TopCharacterTropes • • 10h ago

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2.3k Upvotes

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181

u/RadProTurtle 9h ago

New California Republic vs The Legion. The legion so slavery. The NCR has nepotism.

291

u/BornCoyote87 9h ago

So the NCR is vaguely problematic in the way most governments have been...and the other has slavery and puts 'heretics' on crosses.

84

u/HaloGuy381 9h ago

And also has mass rape of basically all women as a matter of state policy. There’s a reason being captured is seen as far worse by NCR forces than being chopped apart by a machete.

5

u/Zappycat 9h ago

Luckily they’ll all be slaughtered before being allowed to surrender anyways

99

u/RadarSmith 9h ago

I think we should listen to both sides!

17

u/TheDuchyofWarsaw 9h ago edited 9h ago

Hey now, I am not one of those degenerates they're going to put on a cross!

7

u/BornCoyote87 9h ago

You're not one of those degenerates yet.

3

u/TheRealStoryMan1 9h ago

No I say we run Vegas for ourselves and hopefully keep gambling!

13

u/Agitated-Mud-4726 9h ago

Vaguely problematic as in during the main campaign they order you to mass murder two factions, one of whom they commited war crimes against previously and relocated to a Cazador infested land with no resources, and also politically assasinate the leader of Vegas

Also they are quietly harrassing a super mutant town in order to get them to retaliate and justify mass murdering them too

7

u/BornCoyote87 7h ago

Sooo....problematic in the way most government through out history have been.

14

u/Jonjoejonjane 8h ago

The Kahns aren’t innocent bystanders being kicked around and neither are the brotherhood and the ncr didn’t order you to kill them one commander did and your welcome to ignore them and make peace with the factions.

House on the other you got a point

0

u/BornCoyote87 7h ago

Let's be honest with ourselves: Is killing House, one of the people that was partially responsible for encouraging the global nuclear war, really a bad thing?

5

u/Sweet_Baby_Cheezus 9h ago

Yeah, it's like Saudi Arabia vs. North Korea, one is definitely better than the other but it's certainly not vaguely problematic.

2

u/The-red-Dane 8h ago

Yeah, but like... taxes... /s

0

u/PhantumpLord 9h ago

bitter springs

5

u/hatahead 9h ago

Bitter Springs was an act of self defense on the part of the NCR.

-2

u/PhantumpLord 9h ago

I don't think committing literal war crimes counts as self defense.

like, they intended to act in self defense, but they massacred innocent non-combatants.

1

u/Tone-Serious 8h ago

The wasteland would low-key be a safer place if bitter springs happens more often, see how the khans like being on the receiving end of their own shit

34

u/MysteriousFondant347 9h ago

the fact you think those are anywhere near on the same tier concerns me. The legion is unambiguously thousands of times more evil. The NCR is just vaguely problematic, to quote a certain someone

33

u/Rare-Exit-8700 9h ago

Isn't OP asking for tropes where the "good guys" and "bad guys" are equally bad? NCR is like mildly problematic against literal murder rapists

47

u/Beneficial_Ball9893 9h ago

Definitely not. "Authoritarian welfare state" isn't equally bad as 'doing the holocaust.'

I think OP is actually asking for situations where one side are only the good guys by merit that the other side are WAY worse.

6

u/Silly_Poet_5974 9h ago

these days you never know, there are plenty of people who seem to think healthcare is worse than the holocaust.

2

u/EscapedFromArea51 8h ago

I interpreted it as "If you look underneath the labels, both sides are close to being, if not completely, the same.

Basically:

4

u/notjeffdontask 9h ago

Not equally bad. Conflicts where both sides are bad, but one is clearly way worse than the other.

4

u/WhiteSepulchre 9h ago

>mildly problematic
A plutocracy that's forcibly colonizing people and Mossading civilians.

7

u/Hogabog217 9h ago

As compared to the gleefully sadistic murder rapist slavers yeah the NCR is way better.

6

u/notjeffdontask 9h ago

It’s almost like the source of the quote is a politically illiterate person who’s literally lived under a rock for the past hundred years

-1

u/BlaxicanXIX 9h ago

Yeah that's mildly problematic. Like I'm curious what your idea of a mildly problematic city-state looks like

1

u/Practical-Mode310 5h ago

They’re not equally bad, they’re both horrible but one is worse. It’s like getting asked whether you’d rather get punched a hundred times in the face or get your head crushed with a safe. One sucks and will possibly still kill you but the other makes it a simple choice

-2

u/Heavy-Notice-9101 9h ago

They become the same when we're talking about long term outcomes. The NCR is on the trajectory for burning out from its corruption. The Legion like any fascist state, destroys itself when it runs out of enemies to label.

Both are dead ends. The NCR just has a better moral compass WHILE crashing and burning.

3

u/BlaxicanXIX 9h ago

Judging morality only by long-term outcomes is stupid and pointless though which is why no one does it

1

u/Heavy-Notice-9101 9h ago

... you mean except for the part where that was the entire point of New Vegas tho right

5

u/Trotsky191754 7h ago

The biggest problem with the NCR is not nepotism its colonialism and imperialism

0

u/Button-Masher117 6h ago

Its actually taxes but ok

20

u/Dildo_Baggins__ 9h ago

what's that? i can't hear you OVER THE SOUND OF AMERICAAAAAAAAAA

5

u/MrTitanicus 9h ago

One is a plutocracy and the other is more of a Hobbesian authoritarian state. They are not the same.

1

u/MeterologistOupost31 6h ago

That is literally what OP is asking for

10

u/This_Information404 9h ago

Youre insane, like please tell me this is a bot

-8

u/[deleted] 9h ago

[deleted]

13

u/AsherTheFrost 9h ago

Because nepotism and taxes isn't nearly as bad as slavery and ritual murder.

-4

u/[deleted] 9h ago

[deleted]

4

u/AsherTheFrost 9h ago

The trope is "both sides are equally evil" not "one side is evil, the other kind of annoying"

1

u/Confident-Arm-7883 9h ago

Nobody comes close to killing more humans than the imperial

5

u/_whatever_wherever 9h ago

One side taxes people as part of being a functional state.... THE OTHER LITERALLY CRUCIFIES THEM

2

u/Good-Solution3081 9h ago

The NCR is a corrupt empire that's colonizing neighboring lands. They may not be on the same level of evil as the legion but they're not good guys by any stretch of the imagination

3

u/TechnoMaestro 9h ago

I think a more apt comparison would be the techno-feudal Brotherhood versus the Legion. Both factions very intentionally create worse conditions (the Brotherhood via the hoarding of tech that can help rebuild with the various other surviving groups and intentionally hunting them down if they get their hands on any of it, the Legion via rampant slavery) for most people.

2

u/tlk742 9h ago

"The only good thing about the NCR is they ain't Legion." - Benny

-7

u/Snaily-Girl 9h ago

there are no "good" factions in Fallout. That's kind of the point

9

u/Helix3501 9h ago

"One does slavery, the other is slightly problematic"

1

u/Snaily-Girl 7h ago

I'd say damanding taxes at the apocalypse where people starve and dehydrate to death is a more than just propblematic

0

u/TheFlayingHamster 9h ago

The NCR are more than “slightly problematic” they are imperialists who are A-okay with benefiting from genocide and slavery, they just don’t like it when you do it where they have to see it.

1

u/Jonjoejonjane 8h ago

Can you give me a example of them benefiting from slavery and genocide?

0

u/Trotsky191754 7h ago

Chief Hanlon:" It's kind of a long one, but all right. About twenty, twenty-five years ago, a group of NCR settlers pushed way south into Baja. I guess it doesn't seem so far now if you look at a map, but back then, they were out a ways. They built this little shanty town around a well in the middle of nowhere. Called it Rattletail. Word got back to one of our stations that raiders had been attacking the place. I went out with six rangers. We must have been on the trail for a week before we got to Rattletail. We lost one woman to Night Stalkers and another almost died of dehydration. When we reach the place, it's six shacks set up around an old well. There's over two dozen bodies lying in the dunes way outside of town and five men with .308 rifles crouched behind sandbags. And these bodies, these people out in the sand, they aren't raiders. Aren't even heavily armed. They're just people who were trying to get to the only well in fifty miles. I didn't have to talk to the men to see that they did not care one bit. They had planted an NCR flag over the well and they would not budge until every last one of them was laid out, dead and cold. So I walked up and told them there was a group of raiders coming, one hundred strong. I made up some cockamamie name for them and everything. The men looked at each other, looked at us, and asked me what we were going to do about it. I told him we would take them back into NCR territory because we had already lost ten rangers on the way out. Ten rangers, five men with .308 rifles. Well, that was enough for them. They packed up what they could and we took them back north. Last I heard, they settled somewhere in Anza-Borrego. Raised Bighorners. Had some tough times, but it worked out okay for them. So there you go. That's my one bit of good." It would be kinda ridiculous to say that these story's aren't happening pretty much everywhere along the NCRs periphery only with less happy endings.

0

u/Jonjoejonjane 5h ago

While this is fucked it’s not genocide or slavery or anything close I expected you to bring the khans up or maybe the kings.

0

u/Trotsky191754 5h ago

It is very much a genocide, saying it not is like saying American colonialism wasn't a genocide

0

u/Jonjoejonjane 5h ago

The khans and your story are examples of tragedy not genocide the ncr did not endeavor to wipe out a culture or the people entirely. with the story we see a town founded by ncr in the middle or nowhere who shot people outside the ncr when they got close, that’s xenophobia and extreme but not genocide. With the khans they were raiders they weren’t innocents being hunted they were facing the consequences of their own actions. Also comparing theses to the actual genocides of the natives is pretty fucked dude comparing the mass killings of tens of thousands to 24 people.

0

u/Trotsky191754 5h ago

Why do you think the developers would put in an important side character telling you of a massacre that he witnessed in an area currently being colonized by the NCR if it was actually an isolated incident. Especially when one of the primary conflicts in New Vegas is the settlers clashing with the locals, what exactly do you think that fight would look like in a scenario where Mr house didnt wake up and build a power base

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5

u/br0_dameron 9h ago

No but there are certainly worse factions than others

6

u/Dapper-Restaurant-20 9h ago

I mean the minutemen and followers of apocalypse are pretty clearcut morally good guys. Maybe a bit overly idealistic but pretty good morally.

2

u/Vyverna 9h ago

There's no actually "good" faction on this meme, and that's kinda the point too.

2

u/Ducks_are_epicc 8h ago

i mean there is the Followers of the Apocalypse