r/TopCharacterTropes • u/Character_Growth_397 • 13h ago

Hated Tropes Things meant to be progressive just end up being incredibly offensive

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What If - In one of the comics Miles becomes Thor, and it's full of stereotypes about black people such as the Mjolnir having graffiti on it and the infamous "by Odin's fade"

Emilia Perez - Everything about the movie

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1.4k

u/r3cktor 13h ago

Changing Snape’s skin colour in the upcoming Harry Potter series may be problematic:

  • casting a Black actor as a harsh, bitter, and initially villainous authority figure risks repeating problematic tropes where minority characters occupy sole antagonist or unlikable roles.

  • Flashbacks show James Potter and his friends cruelly bullying a teenage Snape. Recasting Snape as a black student targeted by a group of privileged white peers unintentionally adds heavy racial undertones to the schoolyard bullying.

  • Harry Potter’s immediate, deep-seated distrust of Professor Snape in the early books could be awkwardly recontextualised if a young white protagonist is instantly hostile towards the only black teacher.

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u/Secret_Gas_4278 13h ago

"Gee Harry, why don't you trust Professor Snape?"

"GRRRRR HE JUST SEEMS EVIL"

Yeah, it's not..a great look for young Potter.

198

u/MinimumMistake2Outpt 12h ago

"AND I DONT LIKE HIS HAAAIR IT LOOKS DIRTY" yeah it just doesn't, it doesn't work

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u/sheevnoods 12h ago

Oily and greasy are other descriptions of his hair in the books. Hermoine was the easiest slam dunk to not have be white. Or professor McGonagal or something

31

u/thejadedfalcon 11h ago

Hermoine was the easiest slam dunk to not have be white.

The girl who's ridiculed for wanting to end slavery?

Yeah, they actually did make her non-white in the garbage TV show they're desperately trying to make seem relevant.

5

u/Secret_Gas_4278 11h ago

They're referencing a stand up but :)

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u/Secret_Gas_4278 11h ago

"professor of the dark arts? YEAH COULDA GUESSED THAT"

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u/Qulox 6h ago

It HAD to be the teacher without a father

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u/r3cktor 13h ago

And it’ll add another layer when he joins the police force after leaving school...

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u/Secret_Gas_4278 13h ago

This really reminds me of one of my favorite standup bits, it's almost comical how bad this is shaping up to look

3

u/Whysong823 7h ago

Literally any other character would have been less bad

7

u/Secret_Gas_4278 7h ago

Well, ah-Not the Weasley's.

From the same bit "they're poor, have a lotta kids, NOPE"

17

u/MelanieAntiqua 11h ago

"Yer a Grand Wizard Harry"

15

u/ProfessionalRisk4206 13h ago

Scar hurts when Snape is looking at him, Snape openly hostile without provocation, threatening Quirrel (who Harry assumed is good due to meeting him with Hagrid), convinced by Hermione and Ron that he was cursing the broomstick

8

u/lemonylol 10h ago

I swear someone also warns Harry that there are spies or dark forces within the school, and Snape does his best to be as suspicious as possible whenever in view of Harry.

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u/jorgespinosa 10h ago

Harry now will be "The proud boy who lived"

6

u/SensitiveExtremity 10h ago

"You're uh... racist wizard, Harry"

2

u/Positive-Kick7952 3h ago

Because my cursed scar that came from Voldemort hurt when he looked at me, because he bullied me and seemed to hate me my first day here, because he acts super sketchy, and oh yes, he got himself bitten by that three dog on Halloween.

Why do all of you act like Harry hated Snape for no reason, there were PLENTY of reason.

5

u/trexwins 13h ago

Oh this is bullshit; he suspects Snape because Snape was an asshole to him during his first potions lesson and he learned Snape was on the third-floor corridor.

1

u/Zalvren 7h ago

Yeah if you ignore the actual reasons for it that are in the story sure.

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u/DeciduousLesbian 13h ago

So black people aren’t allowed to be casted as villains is what you’re saying?

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u/Puzzleheaded_Trip610 13h ago

Not only that but how in the first book he constantly believes it's Snape yet it turns out to be the turbin wearing Professor

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u/TheReaderDude_97 13h ago

They have also removed the turban from the new version because they said it could be "offensive" for turban wearing people.

194

u/theinvisiblewman 12h ago

If they’re worried about being seen as “offensive” why even bother adapting something written by JK Cho Chang Shacklebolt Rowling

15

u/FirstDukeofAnkh 10h ago

Jesus, I forgot about Shacklebolt.

-6

u/BrockStar92 11h ago

There’s literally nothing wrong with Shacklebolt if you’re not an overly sensitive American. He’s a wizard cop, he puts shackles on prisoners, that’s the nominative determinism there. No British person hears shackles and immediately thinks slavery.

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u/AverageTundra 10h ago edited 7h ago

Americans tend to forget that the world doesn't always revolve around them.

There are so many terms that's been used for ages revolving slavery that are now banned (master and slave in computing, Slave 1 in Star Wars from the top of my head).

Slavery is obviously not a good thing, but the rest of the world doesn't find the word offensive. Not even being able to say shackle without it having a connotation with slavery hence racism is ridiculous.

Edit: As you mentioned, especially when it's written by a brit.

3

u/ErusTenebre 3h ago edited 3h ago

It was dumb to change Slave 1 anyway - he's a villainous character, there's no reason for him to be PC lol

That'd almost be like changing all the Nazis in a comic into some other non-Nazi faction like... Hydra or something. Captain America doesn't fight Nazis, he fights Hydra.

They did a similar thing with a group of villains in a superhero video game called City of Heroes - The 5th Column - a Nazi faction that was nothing but villainous was changed to "The Council" and their Nazi origins were obscured. So instead of punching a bunch of Wolfenstein-esque Nazis, you beat up some Alien-Infused Generic Baddies

edit: mixing up my evil villain factions lol

2

u/AverageTundra 2h ago

Lol yeah changing nazis is dumb since they are like the ultimate real life bad guys. Even in today's media climate with morally grey characters you can't really make a nazi sympathetic even if you try.

I'm not a super huge Captain America fan (don't know him much outside Ultimate Marvel and MCU) but to me it does make sense that Hydra aren't nazis since didn't they infiltrate the nazis and had their own goals? So them surviving ww2 and Cap continuing to fight them kinda makes sense to me.

2

u/MandolinMagi 8h ago

Slave 1 in Star Wars

Its just "Bobba's Starfighter" (starship?) now, because reasons.

1

u/Dudeman240 9h ago

They changed slave 1 cause their pansy's. Dumbassery all around

2

u/theinvisiblewman 9h ago

I’m not American, nor am I overly sensitive. But I’m also not blind or living under a rock. JK Rowling has shown that she is bigoted in MANY ways, including but not limited to giving racist and/or stereotypical names and traits to many of her characters, especially those who are not white British (even if you disagree with Shacklebolt, characters like “Cho Chang” and that Irish kid who explodes things are too blatant to dismiss). Sure, if another author gave a prison guard the name “Shacklebolt” it wouldn’t be cause for concern. But JK Rowling isn’t like other authors. You shouldn’t look at that name without considering her mindset around naming characters. Even if it wasn’t intentional, you’d have to be an idiot to not consider that it might remind some people of slavery. Americans aren’t the only ones who know or care about slavery.

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u/MandolinMagi 8h ago

Irish kid who explodes things

I'm like 95% sure that was a movie invention.

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u/BrockStar92 8h ago

Actually I can completely dismiss those. It’s only white westerners that get up in arms about Cho Chang. Actual Chinese people have stated repeatedly that it’s a perfectly acceptable anglicisation, particularly given that any British Chinese immigrant likely came from Hong Kong. And Seamus doesn’t blow things up in the books. There are FAR more examples of where she simply names characters based on their job. Like dozens of them. And as a British person I’m telling you right now, even if she were racist, it wouldn’t occur to her to do that to make her point - slavery simply isn’t a part of the British zeitgeist like it is in America due to their history. We simply do not think about it in association with black people automatically. Yes we’re aware of it, but we wouldn’t automatically go “that’s offensive”.

JK Rowling is exceedingly bigoted in several ways, but has yet to show blatant anti-black racism. Shacklebolt isn’t a prison guard either, he’s an auror. It says a lot that you don’t even know the actual details of what you’re arguing about.

1

u/TaralasianThePraxic 8h ago

Okay, then how about Cho Chang? Seamus Finnegan? How about the blatantly Jewish-coded money-obsessef goblins? How about Hermione's earnest efforts to end house elf slavery get mocked by almost every other character?

Personally, my 'favourite' (heavy, heavy air quote use) is the little tidbit that before being invited to Hogwarts, Harry was going to be sent to a regular school called Stonewall, and the only real thing we learn about that school is that apparently violent attacks in the toilets are commonplace.

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u/BrockStar92 7h ago

Cho Chang is only quibbled about by white westerners. Actual Chinese people think it’s a perfectly acceptable anglicisation of a realistic name, particularly given that, being British, she likely has heritage from Hong Kong. What’s wrong with Seamus Finnegan?? He’s Irish, that’s a completely normal Irish name! It’s neither a stereotype nor something unbelievable. The goblins are not Jewish coded in the books. Hermione’s efforts regarding the house elves are vindicated in the end by actually changing the views of her friends, they’re mocked earlier than that because she’s a 14 year old girl who can’t grasp that SPEW is not a good name. It’s also stated that several people seemed mildly interested in her views but was put off by her aggression about it. It’s essentially supposed to be a pastiche of earnest teenagers campaigning the wrong way in book 4, and is later validated through Kreacher’s story.

The Stonewall example is utterly laughable, I’m sorry.

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u/Puzzleheaded_Trip610 13h ago

So what's the point of a reboot if they're changing such strange elements. Next you know they're going to remove Death Eaters or change their design to move away from cults

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u/Rickrickrickrickrick 12h ago

They’re going to be called “Unalive Eaters”

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u/devilbat26000 13h ago

That's the best part as well, the whole supposed purpose of this mess as advertised was to cover the books faithfully and in detail, yet here they are editorializing anyway. Truly I don't understand what audience it's supposed to be for. Harry Potter fans but not ones that are too attached to the source material to accept the changes? The changes they're making only seem to be succeeding in pissing off every part of the fandom one way or another, even parts that normally don't like each other.

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u/No-Scientist-5537 12h ago

This is made for people eho will buy anything eith brand name on it

-10

u/TheReaderDude_97 13h ago

Well, they are eyeing a female actor to replace Voldemort. With the actress from Wicked movies as one of the contender.

0

u/Rosian_SAO 13h ago

can we like...not? i'm arguing they shouldn't be remaking the series at all but if they have to, keep most of the cast the way they were please T^T

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u/StanleyKapop 12h ago

This dude is totally making stuff up.

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u/Soft_Self_6797 13h ago

I am sure they did that and probably will introduce a new character named Curry Castebottom or some shit like that. JK is a level 1000 racist druid.

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u/_Imadeanaccount4this 11h ago

They can’t be that worried about offending people given whose work they’re adapting.

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u/RookTakesE6 5h ago

...so what's Quirrell's new solution for hiding Voldemort's face on the back of his head?

1

u/ineedthismorethanu 24m ago

What pussified society so badly???

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u/jacobkuhn92 13h ago

At least Quirrell was white so it’s not as bad. Unless they change that in the TV show too

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u/koolmon10 12h ago

Do you think it would be better or worse if Quirrell were Indian or Middle Eastern instead?

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u/jacobkuhn92 12h ago

Lil bit yeah

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u/citron_bjorn 2h ago

And wasn't one of the strange things about quirrel, that fact that he was wearing a large turban as a white Englishman

2

u/BrickDesigNL 10h ago

Based on a gut feeling out of all things

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u/Zalvren 7h ago

Based on him being an ex Death Eater and tons of hints pointing to Snape. Also Snape being an asshole that like harassing kids.

Disliking Snape is normal whether he's black, white, blue or red has nothing to do with it. Snape is an asshole. Even the bullying by James has reasons (Snape is a creepy stalker that can't accept that Lily doesn't love him)

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u/newX7 5h ago

Oh, cool, so we’re lying. Let me correct you and inform the audience with the actual truth of what happened.

No, James did not have reasons for bullying Snape. Do you know who said that? James himself. He literally says he bullies Snape for no other reason than he exists. Your justification is like saying that if a Black man is just sitting in a bar, minding his own business, and you start harassing him, it’s the Black man’s fault for daring to exist while Black.

Second, Snape wasn’t the stalker, James was, not to mention he was a sexual-predator. When Lily ended her friendship with Snape and said she never wanted to see him again, Snape respected her wishes and literally left her alone for the rest of her life. That is the opposite of stalking. Or are you going to argue that respecting a woman’s boundaries and wishes makes someone a stalker? James, on the other hand, sexually-harassed and tried to blackmail Lily into getting into a romantic relationship with him against her will by threatening her best friend’s safety, and then proceeded to (likely) sexually-assault the individual. So go ahead, please tell me how sexual-harassment, blackmail, and (potential) sexual-assault are all justified based on something that never happened.

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u/BrickDesigNL 5h ago

He distrusts him from the moment they lock eyes. He doesn’t even know his past at that point

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u/BrockStar92 11h ago

He has completely valid reasons to believe it’s Snape. It’s written so the reader thinks it’s Snape too. He’s supposed to be a red herring, for that to be actually decent writing you kinda have to have evidence that shows him to be suspicious, otherwise the reader would just think it’s weird they’re assuming it’s that dude.

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u/JadedResponse2483 13h ago

And then there is the whole " obsession with a white woman and commiting crimes when he is rejected"

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u/sisdom-weeker 13h ago

And if they adopt the flashback where Snape gets bullied faithfully from the books, James has a line where he justifies himself by going "it's not that he's done anything, more so that he exists" (paraphrasing bc I haven't read the books in 7 years or so).

That's going to look fucking terrible

24

u/Honeylemompie 9h ago

Don’t forget the fact he does this while he is being HUNG FROM A TREE

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u/Cyrius 7h ago

That's not a fact, Snape was hanged by his ankle (using a spell Snape invented to use on other people). A tree was vaguely nearby.

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u/naskalit 3h ago

Doesn't happen tho.

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u/YamLow8097 13h ago

I almost want to watch this show just to see how they handle this.

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u/sisdom-weeker 12h ago

I think the only way they can make it not completely terrible is if they also race swap one of the marauders so it doesn't look as much like it's racial bullying but even all of those come with weird connotations

Pettigrew? Yeah have the cowardly guy who becomes evil be a minority, not at all problematic

Sirius? Him being both a slave owner and falsely accused of a crime become very uncomfortable

Lupin? Yeah let's make the guy who can't find a job and attacks kids a minority

Basically they've fucked themselves

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u/HalfEatenSnickers 12h ago

Dont forget lupin becomes a rampaging beast a few times a year

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u/GammaDie345 11h ago

werewolves are a metaphor for AIDS according to JK

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u/Stackbabbing_Bumscag 8h ago

It almost works, because Lupin is depicted as being able to manage his condition with recently-developed medications and is definitely not the threat to children that some parents assume he is.

Then the second werewolf introduced in the story is a gleeful predator who targets children and specifically enjoys spreading his condition. Aaand we're back in Problemville. Typical JKR.

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u/humangingercat 10h ago

Fucking how

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u/GammaDie345 9h ago

she claims that "its because people with HIV are hunted like werewolves are which i think is unfair"

but in the actual book itself werewolves go around fucking biting people.

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u/humangingercat 8h ago

She's so fucking dumb man

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u/[deleted] 10h ago

[deleted]

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u/GammaDie345 9h ago

Yes, google it.

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u/BuhamutZeo 9h ago

They'll just make James a straight up racist who hates black people.

RIVETING STORY TELLING AND COMPELLING SOCIAL COMMENTARY!

YOU ARE ENTERTAINED.

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u/GammaDie345 11h ago

'this minority will inevitably commit crimes because of their obsession with white women" is pretty much JK Rowling's moral center.

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u/JadedResponse2483 11h ago

Now that you say it, it makes total sense

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u/newX7 5h ago

He was determined to commit crimes long before being rejected. The rejection had nothing to do with it.

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u/JadedResponse2483 4h ago

doesnt change the fact that making a character described as ugly with greasy hair, who is always suspect of being involved with something bad in a overwhelmingly white cast sounds effy

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u/newX7 4h ago

Agreed.

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u/sisdom-weeker 13h ago

Similarly, Hermione being cast as black in The Cursed Child

Hermione canonically is the only person in the wizarding world to have a problem with house elf slavery. Making her black makes that already uncomfortable problematic storyline even worse

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u/StanleyKapop 12h ago

If anything, it makes it better. Unlike the books, the play seems to have some awareness that lots of what happens in the Wizard world is fucked up.

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u/sisdom-weeker 12h ago

Idk the play still concludes with the same sort of "don't mess with the status quo!" shit the books and films pull, remember that they went as far to have Cedric Diggory, one of the nicest characters in the canon, become a death eater in an alternative timeline where they save him

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u/FullBrother9300 13h ago

Let’s face it no one can top Alan Rickman

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u/r3cktor 13h ago

Yeah... But I could imagine Adam Driver in the role

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u/GuyKopski 12h ago

People suggest this a lot but I don't think it really works. Snape is supposed to be intimidating. Driver is mousy and baby-faced.

He looks like the awkward nerd people headcanon Snape as having been as a young man, and might could have worked in a prequel series if one had happened when he was younger. But at this point he's older than Snape was in the last book and still doesn't look mean enough.

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u/AnOligarchyOfCats 6h ago

When I think of him playing Snape, I picture Abraham H. Parnassus, and it works for me lol.

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u/FullBrother9300 13h ago

Eh I’m not sure he’s a little too muscular for snape. He was described in the books to be almost sickly looking.

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u/r3cktor 13h ago

Well, they could hide that. Unless there are some topless-Snape scenes in the show...

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u/NekCing 13h ago

Goddamnit im imagining that stupid topless look that got memed to death he had in Star Wars, but with a paler skin, now im going to break into random giggles today, thanks >:((

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u/bloodredcookie 13h ago

Imagine making the suspicious former gang member (with the tattoo to prove it) who's always angry and makes drugs into a black guy...

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u/ChompyRiley 13h ago

I don't give a shit if Snape is black or white, but Papa Esseidu looks *far* too burly. Like... he looks like he's going to read you a bedtime story , not yell at children. Yeah, Rickman was much more handsome than book snape, but he also had a long nose, had greasy stringy hair rather than perfectly coiffed dreadlocks.

the hair needs to look neglected. The robes need to hang rather than accentuate his build, and his face and posture need to convey that perpetual sneer. Papa Esseidu looks disappointed in a fatherly way. Rickman looks disgusted in a teacher way.

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u/clytusmarginicollis 12h ago

Even Rickman was more conventionally attractive than the way Snape is described in the books, but at least he has the pale skin, skinny frame, and greasy hair. New guy doesn’t have any of that (and yes, while Black people obviously can’t be “pale” in the conventional sense, the makeup dept could’ve made him look sickly)

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u/notsew00 12h ago

Smallest detail, but i also hate the fact his outfit has a big ass zipper running right up the front like hes wearing a fucking track suit. It just screams fantasy and whimsical magic dont it?

Call me old fashioned but a wizards robes should not feature zippers. Least not on anyone from an older generation.

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u/naskalit 3h ago

I think it's possibly his quidditch outfit from when he's refereeing a match. It's a similar vibe to what I've seen of the leaks of show Madam Hooch's 90's tracksuit x wizarding robes sporty fit

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u/ChompyRiley 12h ago

and skinny/emaciated.

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u/Kazfiddly 10h ago

I think Power Rangers movie did the race-switching very well, by casting Billy ( Blue Ranger ) as a black, autistic middle-class teenager thats very good at tech.

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u/CommercialEstate4422 11h ago

Burly? In this photo, he looks the opposite. Rickman looks more muscular in this photo with larger shoulders and a more puffed out stature, while Esseidu looks thinner and more withdrawn.

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u/neversunnyinanywhere 6h ago

The zipper is infinitely worse than the button-up ugh

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u/whynaut4 4h ago

The problem is that the new guy is conventionally attractive.

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u/ChompyRiley 4h ago

So was Rickman. But costuming and makeup didn't shit the bed

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u/skeletaltrombone 13h ago

Also the fact that a huge part of Snape’s motivations were his love for Lily and resenting that she married James, so that could be seen as having a black man be bitter about and still hung up on how he couldn’t get a white girl

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u/No-Scientist-5537 12h ago edited 10h ago

"WHERE DA WHITE WOMEN AT?!" Snape asked calmly

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u/Timeshocked 13h ago

Look they can make the bullying not so bad by casting a black actor as…

Sirius Black…no wait his whole family is basically evil wizards that would be a worse look.

Peter Pettigrew…no wait that means he would be betraying all his white friends and sleeping with an underage boy in his rat form which doesn’t help.

Remus Lupin…no wait he abandons his wife and newborn son.

Well…shit! lol I find this whole situation ridiculously funny and can’t wait to see how it plays out.

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u/organvomit 12h ago

They could solve it by making multiple characters black. Make Luna black too or something. Variety makes it not weird. Honestly if they want to go this route, then they should cast actors with no regard for race at all - like the Cinderella movie based on the musical. It works in that movie and it can work in other contexts too, you just have to commit.

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u/adorablegadget 12h ago

But then Luna is also constantly targeted and bullied by the other students. Not to say it's a bad idea, it just doesn't make the problem much better.

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u/organvomit 12h ago

Well it does if other characters are also black, like some of the students bullying her, more of the professors, etc. 

It works when there are no racial undertones because everything is cast actually color blind. Have the same family include different races, just treat it like a live action play. I don’t actually give af about Harry Potter, I’m just saying there’s a way to do it and have it work. The Cinderella movie is genuinely great and I think a magical setting lends itself to this kind of thing anyway. 

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u/spandexandtapedecks 10h ago edited 9h ago

I love race-blind casting. Give us the best person for the role.

e: the person who replied deleted their comment, for some reason, which very nicely asked if casting should follow a preference for the character description in the original media.

I'm gonna answer anyway because it's a good question. I'd say - sure! Sometimes! I think it depends heavily on the adaptation. However, race-blind casting can be a LOT of fun when there's room for it.

Cinema-goers understand that we're watching actors portraying roles. So let us enjoy somebody who's gonna eat it up!!

The person I'm replying to mentioned Cinderella, but I think Romeo + Juliet from 1996 might be my personal favorite example. The original play isn't TOO specific about Mercutio's appearance, iirc, but it takes place in Italy so presumably he'd be Italian. However! Harold Perrineau gave us, hands-down, the single best performance of that role on film. John Leguizamo delights in it as well.

I guess basically what I'm sayin' is that attention to detail is critical to a good adaptation, but choosing the "right" details to highlight will vary depending on the media and production team.

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u/FirstDukeofAnkh 10h ago

Isn’t the new Hermione black? Or was that just for the play?

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u/transalt78987 10h ago

Yes she is, but that adds a different layer of problems because it means the girl routinely called things like “mudblood” and who is bullied for fighting slavery is now black.

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u/FirstDukeofAnkh 7h ago

Oh, a hundred percent.

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u/organvomit 10h ago

I think that was only for the play? I don’t actually know, I haven’t cared about Harry Potter since I read it 20+ years ago as a kid. I wish they’d adapt new IPs instead of the same ones over and over again.

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u/adorablegadget 13h ago

I figured they'd make on or more of them a POC but as you outlined, nothing will fix it lol. There's also the fact that the teaching staff were all white, at least the main teachers, and they all largely despised Snape.

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u/Abovearth31 12h ago edited 12h ago

The only non-white human professors at Hogwarts were Professor Flitwick and Hagrid and that's only because they're half-Goblin and Half-Giant respectively but their human halves are still white and british.

Also that one ghost teacher Professor Binns but he was still a human when he was alive.

Harry Potter takes place in 20th century england with some characters being nearly a 100 years old or more, it is a predominantly white cast, it's just how it is. It's like complaining about the lack of minorities in Lord of the Ring, the setting just doesn't work in favour of super large diversity so any minority included in the story is not even a minority but an exception.

It's particularly noticeable in the video game Hogwarts Legacy which takes place in the year 1890, so nearly 100 years before the books, and we see the previous generation of teachers at Hogwarts. Because that game is modern and wasn't written by JK Rowling but by the writers working for Warner Bros, the cast is a lot more diverse in that game than the books and movies, both the teachers and the students.

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u/adorablegadget 11h ago

I don't mind the idea of added diversity since the Wizarding world is so far removed from non magic society. Like I'd accept that magical people never much cared about race/ethnicity, just good old blood quantum

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u/einstyle 11h ago

The implications of making a prequel where diversity exists to an original where it doesn’t are always icky. So there were people of color in 1890 but they’re all absent in 1990? Where did they go?

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u/Pixel22104 12h ago

I will say. Making Sirius be a POC would probably be the least problematic of James's gang outside of James himself. Especially if they still make the majority of his family to be white. Especially since he was framed for a crime he didn't commit. Of course that is just my opinion which is probably wrong

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u/Volkmek 12h ago

Morgan Freeman as Dumbledore would have rocked if they wanted to force a race swap (something problemmatic on it's own) without using a character where it would be offensive.

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u/clytusmarginicollis 12h ago

I feel like the best way to add diversity is to do some weird shit. Make biological siblings different races. Have a white guy and an Asian woman have a Latino kid. Never comment on any of it. If race isn’t relevant, just go completely race-blind. Like Cinderella.

And yes, I know this isn’t feasible at all, but I’d just love to see someone try it and see how it’s received

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u/Right_Two_5737 10h ago

I saw a movie where King Arthur and his nephew are different races, and neither looks mixed. I stopped noticing after a few minutes.

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u/suprahelix 7h ago

Yup I agree. Just cast every actor from Bollywood or a Korean K-pop band but don’t change the tone or script one bit. Then, halfway through, everyone does white face. Maybe even add a subtle fourth wall break with a character noting everyone’s unexplained new complexion.

Then watch as people try to figure out whether or not they should be offended

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u/Feedback-Mental 10h ago

Albus Dumbledore would be hilarious, his name means "white". And has a sister, Ariana, whose name ALSO means "white".

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u/GammaDie345 11h ago

Remus Lupin also goes around infecting people with lycanthropy, which accordng to JK Rowling is a "metaphor for AIDS"

Black man who goes around deliberately giving people AIDS.....

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u/transalt78987 10h ago

You’re thinking of the villain who infected him. Lupin is the sad victim of AIDs infected by a predator as a child in this comparison.

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u/Quixotic_Seal 9h ago

Can I just point out that this is what, at least the third storyline with deeply uncomfortable subtext in the series?

You've got the Goblins who, particularly in the films, feel uncomfortably evocative of antisemitic stereotypes. The whole SPEW/House Elf situation, where the canonical explanation for why Hermione is so crazy for wanting House Elf liberation is literally just real life apologia for slavery("They like it!" "Without it they don't know what to do, we're helping them!").

And yeah, she's stated explicitly that Lycranthropy was meant to be a parallel to AIDS and other bloodborne diseases; yet in that context Fenrir's literal child predation and intentional spread of disease becomes a pitch-perfect amalgamation of multiple homophobic stereotypes and bogeymen that were pervasive in the 80s and 90s.

Like, don't get me wrong. I'm not saying Rowling secretly has Klan Robes in her closet and intentionally set out to write her own bigotry into the novels....but there does seem to be a pattern in her writing that suggests a massive blind-spot towards how to handle sensitive issues.

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u/ItzPayDay123 3h ago edited 3h ago

Mad Eye Moody!

Oh he's a wizard fed/cop, and he'd look a lot like Uncle Ruckus lol.

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u/Volothamp-Geddarm 12h ago

For some reason I think Hagrid being black would be cool. But maybe him constantly endangering the kids might be a problem lol.

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u/Acherousia 11h ago

For some reason I think Hagrid being black would be cool.

The uneducated ex-con, who is less intelligent than and looked down upon by his peers, and viewed as a sub-human savage due to his bloodline?

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u/Artis34 13h ago

Also, I want to see how they resolve the white malfoy kid obnoxiously calling the new, light brown skinned Hermione, "mudblood".

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u/r3cktor 13h ago

Nah, Malfoy canonically doesn't see race. He didn't even notice when one of his friends' skin colour changed. /s

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u/LoboDibujante 13h ago

Tbf that's not the same characters, the black one is named Blaise Zabini. Ircc, Crabbe's actor was involved in drugs and minor felonies, so they didn't cast him for the latter movies.

15

u/StanleyKapop 12h ago

To be fair, they never say his name on screen, so if you were just watching the movies, all you know is that Malfoy always has two guys he’s hanging out with, and now these are the two guys, so it certainly looks like a recast.

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u/LoboDibujante 12h ago

They do say their name, I think it's in the sixth movie, while they are on the train to Hogwarts.

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u/string-ornothing 12h ago

Especially after they recast Lavender Brown from a Black girl to a white girl after book 6 came out and she was going to have a romance with Ron onscreen.

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u/garyflopper 12h ago

I just call them Goofus and Gallant

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u/Suitable_Natural_814 10h ago

“Hey Crabbe. Did you do something with your hair?”

2

u/Demoniac_smile 12h ago

That really doesn’t need to change. The whole point of that line is that Nalfoy is as much a bigot as his author.

1

u/Fenrist09 11h ago

I don’t understand why this would be an issue? Black people aren’t fragile plates, I’m sure they’ll be able to handle seeing a fictional black character be discriminated against.

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u/Nice-Station3432 13h ago

There's only 1 way to resolve this

Make James potter black and Harry mixed or black as well

5

u/IrishViking22 11h ago

Or just make literally everyone black, apart from Kingsley Shacklebolt - who is now white

3

u/clytusmarginicollis 12h ago

Maybe Lily would work too? Her sister is a bitch but I can’t think of anything about her that would be racially insensitive, plus it would add some obvious real-world parallels when Snape calls her a slur and stuff

3

u/ObnoxiousName_Here 12h ago

You know, people bring up the bullying point as if that somehow makes it offensive, but I don’t see why. Racist bullying exists, and it’s not inherently offensive to depict that. I get the other two points though, at least in the context of the rest of the series

5

u/clytusmarginicollis 12h ago

Racist bullying certainly exists, but the bullying here isn’t supposed to be racist. It’s just supposed to be shitty frat-boy picking on the weird kid. The problem is that when the bullying involves white kids hanging the Black kid from a tree…

6

u/fredagsfisk 12h ago

 when the bullying involves white kids hanging the Black kid from a tree…

People keep repeating that since the casting, but it never actually happened.  James was using Levicorpus to make Snape dangle upside down in the air. No tree was involved, and he wasn't really "hanging".

The bigger issue with that scene that is never addressed is James SAing Snape by undressing him in front of others, and the book handwaving it as "boys will be boys" type shit.

But yeah, it's a very awkward casting for all the other reasons mentioned.

3

u/LowkenuinelyReally 3h ago

Ffs, people got mad over a girl holding a pair of converse’s in a converse ad and said that it was supposed to be a lynching

1

u/visforvienetta 1h ago

You do realise HP is set in the UK? We don't have a history of lynching black people and while we definitely have issues with racism, they are not the same as in America.

1

u/naskalit 3h ago

People just really want to hate on the casting. See for example the "he's hanged from a tree" thing - it doesn't happen, but the fake claim is repeated everywhere, because a lot of people want the casting to be problematic.

Imo the bullying is meant to come across as shocking and awful so the optics of 4 white kids ganging up on a poor black kid just serves to boost the "wait, this is super fucked up" gut punch that scene is meant to canonically have

4

u/lemonylol 11h ago

casting a Black actor as a harsh, bitter, and initially villainous authority figure risks repeating problematic tropes where minority characters occupy sole antagonist or unlikable roles.

I agree with the other points, but this one seems like the reverse of what you're trying to argue. Like if Black roles are forbidden from being villains, how is that any different?

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u/viktorgoraya_luv 13h ago

‘There’s something about this guy…I don’t trust him. Can’t put my finger on it.’

3

u/CommitteeofMountains 13h ago

They should make Lilly and Ginny black as well (and Chang darker skinned Cantonese). Not because of Snape, but because it would make all the times people say Harry is just like his father hilarious.

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u/Zagl0 12h ago

Didnt watch it, but why would race based bullying being shown on screen tone deaf? Isnt that sonething that happened irl?

2

u/ItzPayDay123 3h ago edited 30m ago

Because it changes the characterization of those characters involved beyond just a simple skin color swap.

It would be changing a character from "asshole popular kid" to "asshole popular kid and raging racist, and also his kid and titular protagonist might be racist too"

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u/PitifulWelcome4499 11h ago

I feel like people want this to be problematic for some reason. Feels similar to reverse racism.

6

u/BrockStar92 11h ago

They’re making up the stuff about Harry too. Harry doesn’t just think he’s suspicious, he has totally valid reasons to think he’s suspicious.

I do think the optics of James and his friends bullying a black kid in a predominantly white school because they’re bored and publicly stating they’re doing it because “he exists”, isn’t a great look. But the Harry side is completely fine.

3

u/RookTakesE6 5h ago

There's an absolute bullshit talking point I keep seeing in this discussion that I'm actually surprised nobody's brought up in this thread (yet, as far as I've seen).

Usually the list of reasons Snape shouldn't be black includes "it's going to be SO problematic when the Marauders hang him from a tree and it's going to look like they're lynching him". Which is a ludicrous misrepresentation of what happens in the sixth movie. James uses Levicorpus on him (but says "Impedimenta", whoops), so Snape rises into the air and turns upside down, and because Snape happened to be under a tree at the time and the camera looks up at him from almost directly below, it could kinda sorta look like they suspended him from the tree by his ankles, if you know jack shit about what's going on. And also if you're paying no attention whatsoever, because James then threatens to take off Snape's trousers, which would obviously be impossible if he were hanging by his ankles. 0:20 here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mz5Dp3CQzOQ

I have significant difficulty believing that anyone parroting this point genuinely believes it, yet it shows up everywhere. I'm taking it as a litmus test for whether someone objecting to this casting is actually sincere, versus just stirring shit.

2

u/fruitpunchsamurai619 11h ago

How is this offensive and who is this offensive to? You think kids can't be racist in school?

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u/Wingnutmcmoo 11h ago

Saying snape is only initially villainous is funny.

The dude was a creep who carried the creepiness with him so hard it became drama to his dead crushes NEARLY ADULT SON WHO WASNT EVEN BORN WHEN THE CRUSH STARTED AND STILL A BABY WHEN THE CRUSH DIED.

dude lived a whole weird life where he justified being in and helping the magic KKK because he still really wanted to bang some kids dead mom.

Like none of snapes stuff feels good and none of it felt like he actually did it because it was "good or right". He was just a rogue agent who was in it for himself while pretending they he was doing it for selfless reasons (aka wanting to bone the kids dead mom)

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u/newX7 5h ago

…but he didn’t justify being in the KKK. He clearly regretted it later on and helped take them down. He did do it because it was the good and right thing to do.

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u/DrDima 10h ago

Nah, I don't mind. You know what black people never get as roles? Complete assholes. I'm looking forward to how the actor performs.

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u/fresh-dork 9h ago

initially villainous

he's always an asshole, just useful to dumbledore

Flashbacks show James Potter and his friends cruelly bullying a teenage Snape. Recasting Snape as a black student targeted by a group of privileged white peers unintentionally adds heavy racial undertones to the schoolyard bullying.

oh yes, let's cast the guy who gets hanged from a tree as black.

3

u/naskalit 3h ago

He's not hanged from a tree, that's made up.

1

u/fresh-dork 1h ago

looked it up

hanged upside down in front of a tree by his ankles, so people use 'hanged from a tree' which is kinda close. close enough to read into the scene

1

u/newX7 5h ago

Asshole and villainous are two different things

2

u/FaultyGlyph 2h ago

I disagree with the first comment. Over correcting to a point where a minority can't ever be a villain is about just as bad. Antagonists are a favored role in fiction, and sometimes attract much more praise and attention than the hero or protagonist. And as in real life, anyone can be harsh, bitter, or a villainous authority figure. I think it's equally racist to say "Black people can't be villains".

Though I generally agree, this casting wasn't done really in good faith.

2

u/No-Scientist-5537 12h ago

Prefacing this with: fuck this show and fuck rowling....do we know Snape is the only black teacher?

1

u/Sajintmm 11h ago

Also it would be concerning that the one black member of staff bullies students to the point of being a student’s worst fear (even more concerning that said student had both his parents tortured to insanity) and also brings his grudge about his one sided crush and lays it on the head of an 11year old.

I agree with the other comment that variety would help spread the representation around to the point that a black partial villian wouldn’t stand out around other black characters in the cast.

1

u/Admirable_Risk8156 11h ago

The funniest thing they could do is have young snape played by a white actor with no explanation. It would make it so so much worse.

1

u/Kyderra 10h ago

I love Lewis Spears stand up routine about this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sPRE_UCfxg

1

u/Sweet_Xocoatl 9h ago edited 9h ago

The second point is pretty humorous and ironic because in the context of the show/books James and his friends target and bully a known racist that hangs out with the other racists. However for the third point I find is a bad faith argument because Harry didn’t distrust Snape for no reason, since the moment Harry locked eyes on him Snape was giving him stink eye and on their very first interaction Snape, a grown ass man, mocked and humiliated an 11 year old Harry in front of the whole class for not having an entire textbook memorized, all the while Snape knew Harry just recently discovered that he was a wizard. It’s only natural Harry wouldn’t trust the man regardless of skin color.

ETA: Actually now that I think about it the first point is also a bad faith argument because since when have we decided that black people aren’t allowed to play villainous/antagonistic roles?

1

u/SecBreakfastHobbit 9h ago

Also when he’s kneeling in front of Voldemort and calling him Master.

1

u/DoktorClankhardt 1h ago

Snape might not be the single most "what did they mean by this" HP character to recast as black, but he's up there.

1

u/catfishbreath 33m ago

The way this works is if the show has the nerve to fully embrace the reality of that experience is in the narrative.

Interview with a Vampire is an excellent example of integrating fully a change like that into the narrative and producing a more compelling story because of it.

1

u/HatEfficient6898 12h ago

Acting if harry potter isnt just straight up a controversial series for reasons to due with moldly.

1

u/Gingevere 11h ago

The Death Eaters are also obsessed with "blood purity" and are (or should) also be an allegory for nazism or other ethno-supremacist movements. Turning the death eaters into a rainbow coalition really muddies that whole allegory.

1

u/PickledPlumPlot 10h ago edited 10h ago

The feud between James and Snape was always one deeply rooted in class, to the extent that I personally had a very difficult time seeing James Potter as anything other than a trust fund dickhead. And I’m sure this is partly like sloppy timelines, partly my own cynicism, but a girl from a normal muggle family meeting a magic old money boy and getting married and pregnant with his baby at 19 is perhaps worth like, a little consideration.

1

u/PavlovKBI 6h ago edited 3h ago

Yeah, race swapping a character into a black man usually isn't a big deal, but it's a little dicey when it's a character who is/was:

  • terrorizing Neville so badly that the monster that takes the form of your literal worst fear comes out looking like him (also will lowkey make Neville look a little sus)
  • a part of the cult/gang that magically lobotomized Neville's parents (and indirectly enabled said group to kill Harry's parents, and frame his godfather for it)
  • still actively branded with the mark of the group
  • holding a grudge against an 11 year old because he's still hung up on kids mom, despite her marrying a jock cop who used to bully the shit out of him
  • obsessed with becoming the one who teaches kids combat spells and curses
  • consistently denied aforementioned job
  • instead in the role of teaching kids how to make potions and poisons
  • holding such a grudge against Lupin that despite being trusted to make the potions to help control his lycanthropy, Snape lampshades the condition to Lupin's students when subbing his class during the full moon

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u/newX7 5h ago

James never became a cop.

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u/PavlovKBI 3h ago

Oh you know what, you're right it was Neville's dad that was an auror. It has been a long time since I've read the books

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u/IndyPFL 4h ago

Rowling has never been afraid of being incredibly awful with writing stereotypes. She's never been afraid of being an incredibly awful writer either.

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u/GammaDie345 11h ago

JK Rowling probably thinks these are all positive things lol

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u/CoachTex 10h ago

Tbh theres already really bad POC names “cough” Cho Chang “cough”

2

u/naskalit 3h ago

Chang/Zhang is literally the 3rd most common Chinese surname, and a lot of native speakers have confirmed that it's a perfectly ok name if a slightly unconventional western spelling for Cho

-1

u/Wardock8 12h ago

The idea that JK Rowling, the person who thinks Kingsley Shacklebolt is a good name for a black man, getting an adaptation of her story where the main character and his dad are racist is pretty funny to me idk.

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u/citron_bjorn 2h ago

Kingsley shacklebolt is a magic policeman. He puts people in shackles and bolts as punishment.

The history of slavery isn't a large part of the British cultural zeitgeist like it is in America. Most brits simply know that Britain bought and used slaves in the Americas, that Wilberforce campaigned to end slavery, and that the royal navy helped fight the slave trade after.

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u/Wardock8 5m ago

So it's not racist, just stupid. Got ya 👍

0

u/EpilepticMushrooms 11h ago

He's also a black guy who really really wants to get in with the white supremacists, is 'half blood', literally calls himself the half blood prince, really wants to get into a white woman's pants, man, shit gets worse

0

u/Ramekink 10h ago

She had to greenlight it on purpose...

0

u/MixedBagHalfie 5h ago

There’s also the fact that the Death eaters are a magic Nazi allegory with snape serving as a “Reformist” archetype for it, which doesn’t really make as much sense when he’s black.

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u/Distinct-Energy8128 12h ago

Didn't the Marauders literally hang Snape upside down in a tree at one point, too? Or am I remembering that incorrectly?

Obviously the optics of a group of white boys hanging a black boy from a tree is....problematic, at best.

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u/Steelinghades 12h ago

No, you're not quite remembering It right, what happens Is that James uses Levicorpus to flip Snape upside down to flash his underwear to everyone, In the movies they just happen to be near a tree when It happens, he's not actually hung from a tree.

0

u/Distinct-Energy8128 12h ago

Thank you for clarifying. I suspected I was remembering it wrong. I knew somebody out there would know for certain, though (and it'd be a faster/easier response than trying to Google it to look up clips and excerpts).

Still, it's not the best optics even without the tree.

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