These aren't goths. When I was in school we had goths. They were actually nice, non confrontational, but weren't really mean, just kep to their groups.
I was part of my high school's goth/emo friend group. (08-12) We had a ton of non-alt people come and hang. The kinds of kids that would get picked on and we all hung out together. We found common ground in nerdy shit like movies, books, or games. But we all got picked on, like we genuinely were outcast and bullied often. I work in a school now, and its not like that anymore. Everyone is pretty well integrated.
I was a goth in the 80s. We were generally quite nice, easy going people who loved goth music, fashion and a bit of dark culture.
Today's goth are either:
A) Hyper sexualized / fetishized
B) Hyper liberal and all about "Fuck the system" and hating people who voted different from them,
Goths never used to be like that, I guess politics, OF and social media have completely changed what it was. I stopped engaging with the communities on Reddit when people who were only born decades later lecture me on what goth was in the 80s.
Goth was co-opted as a term by British counterculture and dark punk rock youth culture, then spread to america. I know it had some sharing with the dead and the cure, i dont actually know what bands or american bands were truly “gothic” in that era, but yeah it was basically just a word for youth culture who embraced a form of chaotic nihilism and listened to artist that portrayed this. By the time i was in HS, mid/late 90s, mainstream youth culture didnt know anything except what they looked like and that they liked dark music with candles and shit
I think so lol. I’m in my 40s so I can relate and am trying to keep up! It’s a ‘wave’ genre so, very synth-centric but it still embodies the goth of the 80s n 90s
I'm younger than that, but my older 80s goth friends are cool, welcoming people, who have their shit together and love life, but still love the vibe - And the goth and metal nights in the 00s looked different, and more importantly had different attitudes, to both of these people.
We're just witnessing the almost-caricature phase of all subcultures that comes later in their lifespan; with people imitating the most visible images (usually the most extreme) of the subculture, sans all context and comradery.
Combined with that, the internet and memes are just drawing out the lifespan and sexualisation of that for far longer than older trends, especially for "goth gf"s- and I'm not exactly charting this, but I already feel like that was more prominent and memed like 5 years ago, and is in its downturn.
Lastly, all these videos are purposefully manufactured bait, and both people are being insufferable deliberately. Neither are worth criticising as actual representatives- I know people IRL who dress like both sides of this and neither of them would be this annoying, and certainly not to each other.
The old heads I've met tend to be really open-minded about most things in my experience. Great to talk music with if you're wanting to really get into it too. I've never "been" goth but I did get really into Siouxsie and the Banshees in my teen years. I would say my thing was more emo/core kid. Can't really get into the modern versions of either of those scenes in the same way because I feel they've become something fundamentally different. Its nuts that BMTH are considered one of the greats of that era now cause I remember all the old head metalhead gatekeeping that went on back then
Nowadays I like bluegrass, old time and Irish trad. I am a musician though and I feel that had a lot to do with where I ended up musically. I still listen to other genres but for those three I feel like my appetite for it is endless
I mean, ok, in defense of the r/goth subreddit they mostly post pics of their fave bands, records/CDs of albums, and pics of themselves at concerts with their friends. It's still pretty chill.
I grew up in the 80s as well and knew a few goths, just as you said, you guys stuck to yourselves and always had a small air of mystery about youse all.
I did not see a single goth in the video OP posted.
90s as well. I was a non-goth who just ended up vibing around the goths, and they we always welcoming and friendly.
Weird, but yeah, I mean they were rejected by normal society and created a pocket to exist in.
But yeah nice people and fun to party with back then, and they were always the best party moms, the ones who would take care of you and monitor you while you were passed out, even for the guys.
I am simply arguing that politics has become a much larger part of the goth subculture than it used to be. It was always political to some extent, but these days that seems to be the main point for many people.
I think they are mixing up punk and goth. Goth was not just punk + dark colors.
I feel like the hyper sexual goth got their start in late 90s/early 00s with Suicide Girls and other alt-girl publications of the time. Which is a bit before the social media we have today.
You're right.. now I think about it Suicide Girls was the first time notice that! They tended to be more metal and punk, but certainly started leaning into goth at some point.
Goth can be B. But that’s more of a punk aesthetic. Punk is more “fuck the system” and goth is more dark and nihilistic. There’s heavy overlap between the two. As an emo/punk/goth hybrid in personality they each have their own kind of underpinnings but to say there’s no overlap is a little weird.
Yes, that is the nature of a sub culture, and it did grow out of punk, but that was never a key part of it's identity. Music, fashion, culture... but not politics.
Sure, we always welcomed and would defend anyone of any race, sexual orientation, gender etc. and fascists were always hated, but many current goths (at least on Reddit) are highly political, seeming to be far more interested in left / right hate than the things that made up the subculture in the past.
I honestly can't remember having a single conversation with other goths about politics in the 80s. It was simply never a popular topic for discussion.
I feel like modern goths have taken on more of the punk aspect of politics. Maybe in part because it's needed, fascism is certainly on the rise again.
Early goths were super friendly to almost everyone, that's quite hard to be if politics is a big part of your identity. Of course anyone who mistreated anyone else would quickly be ejected from our group and likely goth social circles in general.
Goth was always a Punk subculture and by it's core at least anti-fascist. If there was somebody who discirminized another Goth for being of anything but white ethnicity you could count on heavy black boots ending up in someone's face. Goth is political by being counter culture and nonconformist
I don't think it was as much left leaning as "accepting of everyone".
These days accepting queer kids is political thing, within my circle of friends that was just being a good person. We really did try to accept and understand everyone, without ever labeling it as 'left' or assigning any political agenda to it.
What would you say was the goth ethos? I'm more confused than ever. I get the anti-mainstream part, but I though it was also about being super depressed and morbid.
I think a lot of the things older people never considered political have always been political, its just you've become aware of it or your politics have changed.
I started high school a goth in 2001. The older goth kids weren't nice at all: i was unknowingly tested and they decided i was a fake goth out of pure gatekeeping. It actually hurt a bit and who's laughin now? I'm 40 now and still a goth.
I had goth girl in uni, she was so quiet and all by herself all the time, no one really liked her or wanted to chat with her although she was cool and kind
Yes that was my experience too. I enjoyed hanging out with them as there was no judgement from them, they were being themselves and that was it. And at that young adult age, most people are pretending to be something they're not, trying to be cool etc. Goths were the chill friendly people.
Elder goth here, this. IDK what's going on up there but it's not the subculture I know, all I hear is a bunch of yelling and performative shit for views.
I mean, what did we really expect... this is a huge youtube channel that pits people against each other for drama and chaos to make exciting content. There's no reality where they choose a genuine, introverted quiet goth to be on the show.
One of my friends in high school was goth (class of 1996) and she was one of the sweetest people I've ever known. She used to good naturedly give me sh*t for being the only man on the cheer squad. Everyone gave her a wide berth because small town, but I came from a big city and understood that she just didn't want to put up with the narrow-minds.
I have a picture somewhere out there of me and my goth friend holding hands and skipping through the empty courtyard of a theme park. Satan was a real g.
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u/Outrageous-Bee4035 12d ago
These aren't goths. When I was in school we had goths. They were actually nice, non confrontational, but weren't really mean, just kep to their groups.