Genuinely asking cuz in order for Luffy to overcome katakuri was to develop future sight himself. And no sage mode isn’t on that lvl that’s basic observation haki lvl as it just allows him to see in 360, hell even 3 Tomoe sharingan isn’t since it can’t see a full sequence like future sight.

there’s speed as well, Luffy consistently push way more speed scaling than Naruto who only has the light fang dodge sideway to his name. And if you mention Naruto beating haku, no, that’s the same as kuma pad canons, the resulting speed is not light speed as he returns to his normal body outside the mirror and even throws needles, are the needles light speed too? And even then later they praise sasuke kirin speed or showed tsunade getting transported at light speed and needed hundred seals, it’s too inconsistent.

There’s literally no incomprehensible way Naruto is ever touching luffy, he can dodge forever, so what’s the argument for this?

First of all, I am NOT a saitama glazer, and this question is NOT related to the deathbattle

I constantly see people scale goku to multiversal, but after reading all of Z and Super, I just don’t see how he comes close to multiversal.

He’s never shown anything close to the kind of power needed to be universal, unless you consider him close to rivaling the gods of destruction.

I would appreciate if someone could explain this to me 👍 (Also I’ve never watched any of the shows or movies)

How the hell yhwach is low complex gng 😭🥀 their entire cosmology isn't even qualified to be multiverersal but they scale him to low complex multiverersal 🫪

Character - Yhwach (Bleach Anime)

Video credit- dvietanh13 (tiktok)

People often divide planetary, moon level, and continental into different categories but when looking at it from a purely physics based standpoint, celestial bodies are just big dust balloons much like bodies are fleshbags.

You don't actually ALWAYS need to output an amount of force or energy equivalent to the celestial body to destroy it. For instance, to destroy let's say earth or the moon, the process is similar for one popular option seen in Invincible and Dragon Ball

1. Produce enough energy to pierce past the earth's crust (if your planet is hollow this is the only step)

2. Make sure that attack or you can survive the mantle, core, and has enough energy to destabilize the inner core

3. Let space physics do the rest, watch it explode and survive the explosion

Or

1. Meteor style cause a massive concentrated AOE amount of damage to the crust and upper layer of the mantle, slightly over continental or multicontinental force (if your planet is hollow, this is the only step)

2. Watch the rest of the mantle and crust basically destabilize itself into a stormy earth soup then create its own series of constant destabilizing explosions

3. Survive this

With this second option the planet should reform in like a couple billion or a hundred million years

Or final option (the impressive one)

1. Needlessly output an amount of energy required to entirely vaporize the planet

That's it. That's the only step. This is what you people think Planet level is for every planet level character

Saitama fans are mad that base Goku slimes Saitama out. Let's use that 1,500 times universal number that death battle uses just for fun.

Goku in base is already low multiversal.

He has multipliers of 50, 100 , 400 and more, so ssj3 Goku is already 600,000 x universal. And let's just low-ball to the extreme and say ssjG is 10x ssj3. That would make Goku in ssjG 6 million x universal and ssjB would make him 300 million.

Kk× 20 would push it to 6 billion. And let's low-ball to the extreme again and say both ui are aso a 20x boost. That means in ui omen , Goku would be 120 billion and mui would be 2.4 trillion times universal. This is an EXTREME low-ball .

But using this low-ball, we can get Goku's power to 40 octodecillion foe. Saitama best on screen feats was calced at 167 sextillion foe. So it would take him 2 min and 43 seconds of constantly growing to catch up with Goku.

This wouldn't really change the outcome, because the catching up time merely goes from 2 minutes, to 2 minutes and 43 seconds. But this is an EXTREME low-ball. And those extra 43 seconds would be more than enough for Goku to get the dub. Coz remember, 2 minutes are spent catching up to Goku's base.

But yeah, even extremely low-balled, Goku is still Washing Saitama.

If I used actual lore accurate scaling, where the universe is infinite in size, there is no world in which Saitama is touching any of the z fighters, let alone goku

The 3 average woman are all 5’3-5’5 tall, they have no combat training all are mid twenties. The women each weigh anywhere from 120-140 pounds

The man is 6’4 tall, lean and toned body build, he has no combat training. He is in his Early twenties. He weighs 195 pounds

Fight is hand to hand only, and takes place in the street.

I think a lot of people missed the point with both of these characters, I think a lot of people want their favorite character to win, and I get that, but I want people to remember that characters are MORE than their powerlevel. As a fan of both franchises, I think narratively it makes more sense that Saitama wins, and I can explain why. And I promise it does justice to both characters.

Saitama's character gimmick isn't just that he's 'always the strongest fighter' it's that every fight is BORING to him. There is nothing that Saitama would want more than for a fight with Goku to be the first time he could ever actually go all out, full strength. It would be absolutely devastating for Saitama if a guy so strong he can LITERALLY teleport is somehow… predictable. Saitama Isn't a real fighter, he's a force of nature. He's got no techniques, no training, no martial arts, or ki-blasts. He has literally never had a real fight, and he never had to try even a single time.

Meanwhile, Goku would be ECSTATIC! Half of the fun for Goku is that there are stronger people out there, It's a core foundation of his beliefs instilled on him when he was a child by Master Roshi! An opponent that keeps the paces no matter how fast the fight gets? How strong the attacks are? Whether a light spar or a serious death battle, he wouldn't need to hold back either way. Even IF it killed him, that's never held Goku back before, he'd probably come right back, with a powerful Zenkai boost, and start training like hell even more passionately than ever before! It would drive him! Motivate him! Give him life!!

Meanwhile… Saitama proves once again that he will never see a true fight. The world won't let him, he's doomed to be the strongest person in the world no matter what world he's in. Even the strongest warrior anybody could think of wasn't a real fight… To me, the people saying that Goku would win are essentially saying the same thing as "I bet Goku could beat Grand Master Zeno in a fight!" Like, you're missing the point, Zeno Isn't a fighter, he doesn't know how. Instead, he literally removes opponents from existence. It's the same thing with Saitama, Goku is OBVIOUSLY the stronger fighter, because Saitama has never fought anything ever, he basically larps as a fighter, he doesn't fit into powerscaling like this. He just removes him opponents. We aren't even sure that he CAN BE HURT AT ALL.

This is why it feels so silly that there's so much debate imo, like to even suggest that Goku is strong enough to beat Saitama, kinda paints him as a poorly written character. (Which he is NOT imo) Like to suggest that he has no room to grow or further potential to gain, he's just already at the point where he apparently auto wins every fight? Even against a character, whose whole gimmick is that they auto-win every fight? That makes sense for a joke character like Saitama, but Goku isn't a joke! Like, stop trying to make Goku win the match-up against the indestructible character! Goku already has enough cool as hell achievements under his belt that we don't need to make up bullshit ones to try to make Goku look cooler or something, he's already cool, he's GOKU!

But that's just my two cents~ ¯_(ツ)_/¯

Edit: Yknow, I'm realizing now that I'm mainly thinking of the original Saitama from One's Webcomic, but I'm just gonna give this one to the DB fans, the Manga or show version of Saitama prolly loses this, I forgot that they're practically different characters at this point. Lol. I wonder if that's partially what causes such dissonance on this topic?

I mean, we all knew this was going to happen, but i feel like this entire thing has shown just how terrible many people in power sealing's reading comprehension actually is. I feel like this sub should host a class every Saturday or something to fix that because some of the things I've seen are almost concerning.

"There are stars in the sky. So Soul Society is an infinitely large universe itself. That makes Yamamoto universal" like wtf bro. You gotta show something on screen if you are glazing that much. Crazy how no universal Bleach character showed equal feats as dbz Master Roshi

It blows my mind that the amount of consistent planetary "anti-feats" are considered downplay yet the once in a blue moon multiversal feat is enough to get them that high

Yhwach can get offguarded shown EXPLICITLY with the flashback where Chojiro is able to backstab him despite him being a Soul Society Ichigo Victim

All points for Ichigo to scale to Yhwach in chronological Order.

Episode 45.

Ichigo is explicitly fighting a non-serious Yhwach the entire time only after Blood Chains. Only after the Getsuga Tensho Yhwach self admits that he will stop underestimating Ichigo and after that point Yhwach no diffs him.

Infact Yhwach has the disadvantage of being frozen, and Ichigo has the advantage of a point blank Getsuga Tenshou in Blood Chains and Yhwachs makes him a Mop.

His only scaling is getting his Ass kicked by Yhwach

Episode 48

Yhwach was explicitly offguarded here, He thought he blew a hole through Ichigo who it turned out was Aizen and Ichigo backstabs him. This is easily the most explicit case of Yhwach getting Offguarded.

Episode 49

This is worse than all others since Uryu has the Stil Silver which completely makes all of Yhwach's Power Dissappear and only then does Ichigo chop him in half.

TLDR.

He either offguards Yhwach, takes advantage of Yhwach's powers getting negated or gets no diffed by serious yhwach. He doesnt scale to Yhwach in any capacity.

Anime: Jiren (Dragon Ball Super)

TYBW: SK Yhwach (Bleach)

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R1: Michael (Vertigo/DC)

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R2: Featherine (Umineko)

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R3: Father Time (Vertigo/DC)

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R4: Numidium (Elder Scrolls)

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R5: Constant of Termination (SCP)

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R6: Pralaya (DC)

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R7: Our Lady/Sophia (WoD)

The strongest gooner game protagonist in history vs the strongest gooner game protagonist of today.

No weapons, just a good ol’ fistfight