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u/TheRoyalKT 10d ago
I feel like a lot of the guys fearmongering about false accusations are actually more worried that things they’ve done in the past would be seen as sexual assault if they were publicly scrutinized.
And to be clear, I’m not necessarily saying they’re all secretly evil rapists going out of their way to assault women, I’m saying that “I did something really awful in my past because I was young/lonely/stupid and didn’t think it ‘counted’” is an extremely uncomfortable thought, and “BITCHES MAKE SHIT UP ALL THE TIME!” is a remarkably convenient excuse to not face the truth about ourselves.
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u/NextDoctorWho12 10d ago
100% it is the exact reason they didn't want to make drinking and driving illegal. Because all the judges, police and politicians did it.
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u/passive_flatulence 10d ago
I think you might be right, but also, and I am a woman, all it takes is one crazy person that you've dated to make you realize that people can lie about you and ruin your reputation
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u/Far-Cockroach-6839 10d ago
I think that the sentiment of some that accusations should be treated as default true doesn't help. When people feel that they don't have any presumption of innocence they're less sympathetic to accusers.
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u/bewitch1n 10d ago edited 10d ago
What would help all of this is sincere deprogramming from the patriarchy but too many men don't want to.
EDIT: Oh by the way. Before the finger pointing starts-- Its all kinds of men who need to. Not just one demographic, or just one type of voter. Mansplaining feminism. Smfh. 🙄
EDIT TWO: My God I can't stand y'all. I never said women don't need it too. But we didn't create it either.
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u/Outside-Place2857 10d ago
Every accusations shouldn't be treated as default true, but every accusation should be taken seriously.
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u/Hot-Calligrapher672 10d ago
I don’t know why “default true” is what men assume. If an accusation is made, yeah it needs to be investigated. Most of the time a report/accusation isn’t even made. And most investigations that begin from accusations go nowhere.
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u/TrandaBear 10d ago
Because bad actors kind of destroyed that presumption. We know the gap between what is legal and what is correct exists (OJ did that stuff). So when there's a long, documented pattern of people "getting away with it", the people start being apprehensive
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u/HairyMcBoon 10d ago
Delicious OP. Let’s see who does and doesn’t get it.
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u/Mor_Padraig 10d ago
A shocking, genuinely bewildering number of people did not.
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u/Color_Me_Softly 10d ago edited 10d ago
I love watching the panic set in with these mfs like, “I have to do all that?” Yes… Yes you do.
Edit: the comment section is WILD
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u/Mundane_Molasses8923 10d ago
It seems pretty straightforward. Not a head scratcher by any means
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u/Retro-FreyFrey Pinkie Finger Extended 10d ago
You forgot ‘don’t wear headphones at night so you can keep more aware of your surroundings’!
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u/ImmediateClass9650 10d ago
It's a thought excercise. Change the first sentence to "Why are women so afraid of being sexually assaulted?" It's stuff they always have to think about.
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u/Fun-Heron-7609 10d ago
100% this. Watch what you wear. You put yourself in that situation, right guys?
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u/WC_Flyer 10d ago
I’m not afraid of being falsely accused, because I’m not an a-hole or an idiot. Hope this helps.
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u/kon--- 10d ago
I mean, it's what I do. Can't be too careful in this world. Ever.
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u/Quirky_Ask_5165 10d ago
I work in a predominantly female field. Currently in a leadership role. You can bet your bottom dollar that I never have any meetings alone with any of my female or male coworkers. No one can claim that I'm treating anyone differently if I bring a witness to every individual meeting.
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u/Outside_Valuable_320 10d ago
You should take it a step further and only have zoom meetings. Really cover all your bases.
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u/Quirky_Ask_5165 10d ago
Really wish I could. Unfortunately nursing doesn't allow for that
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u/Outside_Valuable_320 10d ago
Ah but the plus side to hospital environments are that it's pretty common to keep doors and curtains open!
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u/Quirky_Ask_5165 10d ago
True, but when you're talking corrective actions, pay, or some other HR related issues, I always give them the option to close the door. I don't give them the option of not having a witness. That's for everyone's protection. Especially mine.
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u/Outside_Valuable_320 10d ago
It's seems like a complicated ask at that stage. I'd have a hard time not suggesting that HR handles these matters. Like here's my write up, deal with it. Sure it makes the communication more triangulated but at the end of the day it's about legality and fairness for everyone involved right? Also, HR as the default baddie works in my book.
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u/M0ebius_1 10d ago
"Don't be the 4th to 7th guy to push your dick into a passed out girl"?
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u/Sharp_Ad_6336 10d ago
In an ideal world men wouldn't need to, but realistically watching your drink and not getting blackout drunk voluntarily would likely cut out the vast majority of "false accusations".
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u/No-Call2227 10d ago
Well said. But honestly, I hope we can do better for everyone in society, this is dripping with righteous frustration (and righteous in the sense of justifiable), but this mentality of equally miserable experiences is not how we eventually raise the bar.
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u/EmporerM 10d ago
Because I'm Black. Like I get your point but in the west males of color lack many luxuries.
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u/bleue_shirt_guy 10d ago
Why do we infantilize women?
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u/SeonaidMacSaicais 10d ago
Why do we judge women more harshly than men?
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u/DeadlyUseOfHorse 10d ago
Any criminal conviction stats will show you that you’re completely full of crap. When considering equivalent criminal background and conviction of the same crimes men ALWAYS get harsher sentences. Judging men harsher than women is literally institutionalized. Your anecdotes and “trust me bro” assertions have no power here.
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u/PraireGentleman 10d ago
We don’t; data consistently and overwhelmingly shows that men are judged more harshly for violating social norms, both informal and formal.
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u/WhoShatMyPants42069 10d ago
Men generally get 60% more jail time for crime than women for similar crimes and history.
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u/ChudwellFoidbane 10d ago
Because the sexual revolution is over you guys got all the freedom you were looking for yet you refuse to accept any responsibility for it.
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u/italktobotz 10d ago edited 10d ago
We dont. Men are more forgiving than women, especially in regard to body count. I know that i would be ok with being with a woman even if i know they have been with a man before me. But most women would not be ok with being with me if i was with a man before them. Its a harsh double standard really
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[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Beerzerker420 10d ago
Yeah in my case it was exgf who raped me, physically/emotionally abused me, and then threatened to tell the cops I raped her and get her guy friends to jump me and kick my ass for trying to break up with her.
Obviously totally my fault as a victim
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u/Rough_Ian 10d ago
Thanks for being brave and sharing. It’s an unfair knee jerk reaction for people to say that anyone afraid of being accused of something must therefore be guilty of it. That itself is its own toxic overreaction to toxic masculinity. The fact paranoia of being accused means you’re already regarded as guilty is precisely the reason why it makes sense to be paranoid of being accused.
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u/MonkeyCome 10d ago
Yeah this just peak ignorance. I had a false accusation levied against me in high school. Despite having multiple people who were with me the night it supposedly happened vouch for me I was still kicked out of school for the year despite everything else being dropped within days.
I literally had multiple people to verify my alibi and was still punished while the girl got off scot free.
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u/Pheehelm 10d ago
"If you haven't done anything wrong you have nothing to be afraid of."
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u/Crazy-Crazy-3593 10d ago
Very Kafka-esque, right?
Why even have rights at all?
If you haven't done anything wrong, just cooperate with the police!
/s
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u/Sid_the_Bear 10d ago edited 10d ago
I have been falsely accused, literally just for existing in a space before.
I have been told point blank, that simply existing as a man is literal rape.
Do I take that kind of accusation seriously? No. But the person who made it was serious.
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u/Zealousideal-Fold487 10d ago
Wrong. I thought this until it happened to me. Accused of coercing a woman into sex. We hooked up 10ish years ago, no coercion whatsoever. She lied to multiple people about it, changing the age to make me look worse multiple times. Luckily my friends and the people in my life both male and female didn’t believe her because they know me/remember the situation. Ever since that happened I definitely have had real fear.
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u/EADASOL 10d ago
There are multiple documented cases of men spending years in prison through false accusations by women.
Let's try something.
Let's replace "men" with "women" in your statement and see how that looks to you.
"Women who are afraid of being 'falsely accused' are women who know that their conduct is that of someone who does things that deserve accusations".
How fair a statement is it now?
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u/IKVivir1953 10d ago
Let’s look how Emmet Till was lynched because a white man colluded with his wife into making an accusation that Emmet “wolf-whistled” at her in a store.
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u/Deep_Equivalent_3245 10d ago
Feminists will look at the history of black men being publicly lynched after being falsely accused of raping, harassing, or cat-calling a white woman and claim it was simply Jim Crow racism while overlooking the fact that they were falsely accused of rape or sexual assault.
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u/BiggestShep 10d ago edited 10d ago
Well that went right over your head, now didn't it?
The whole point of this is that this is what women are told every time they or someone close to them is raped or sexually assaulted.
It's a modern Modest Proposal. The whole point is that you shouldnt have to live your life in fear of this one thing, that we should teach people not to fucking perpetuate it to begin with.
Also, there are multiple documented cases of horse fuckers spending years in prison. Are you afraid of being a horse fucker?
There's 7 billion people on the planet and false accusations of any given crime, including sexual assault hover at 1% or less of actual perpetuations of the crime. With that many people on the planet of course there's going to be multiple documented cases of everything. There's multiple documented cases of spontaneous human combustion too, you spending the rest of your life in the bathtub?
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u/StillMostlyConfused 10d ago
While the reports/papers aren’t flawed, people’s understanding of it is. I’ve seen more like 2-8% are found to be false but that’s irrelevant.
The issue is that to be found false, there has to be clear evidence/proof which essentially has to be the “victim” that changes their report. Otherwise, if they can’t prove the allocations, the case is dismissed as “unfounded” which isn’t the same as false.
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u/Reesewithoutaspoon2 10d ago
Changing the genders didn’t change my perception of that statement.
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u/FormalYogurt2760 10d ago edited 10d ago
Every normal, respectful, feminist guy thinks it can't happen to them, until it does.
There are cases where people falsely accuse because they got dumped or because they were embarrassed. In these cases, the guys were eventually proven to be gentlemen the whole time.
It's rare, and most of the time (almost always) there's something to the accusations, but sometimes they come completely out of the blue.
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u/Proof-Pineapple69 10d ago
Men who are afraid of being falsely accused are as guilty of bad conduct as women who are afraid of being raped.
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u/MajesticArt6533 10d ago
Rape happens to 1 in 4 women the number of men who are falsely accused is statistically insignificant . The fear around it is hysteria. You are more likely to be raped yourself then falsely accused. They arent the same thing
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u/Proof-Pineapple69 10d ago
This stat has been debunked tons of times. Even in the most patriarchal and primitive societies the rate doesn't get that high.
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u/Round-Arugula7347 10d ago
I’m not worried either, I think it’s just an excuse for them being people who can’t get a date
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u/rhymesnewtoman 10d ago
Anyone who says they have complete control of their instincts is someone that I don't want near me, because it's bullshit hogwash. Nobody has 100% control of their primitive instincts - I don't even think thact nicht tanh did. Controlling them isn't the answer.
You feel them. Then you don't act on them.
You will be angry.
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u/PraireGentleman 10d ago
So when women say they’re afraid of being raped, does that mean they are women who know their conduct is deserving of rape?
It’s funny watching people arguing for women’s equality using sexist rhetoric
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u/MunkyBubbers 10d ago
Describe "conduct deserving of rape".
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u/TheManAcrossTheHall 10d ago
He's not even saying such conduct exists. He's taking the logic of the guy he's responding to and switching the positions. Because saying 'people worried about ____ probably deserves ____' is exactly what that commentor is saying.
First ____ was false accusations. Then it got replaced with assault. Why is it only problematic when it's assault?
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u/BOOTY_POPPN_THIZZLES 10d ago
when does anyone deserve to be raped?? How did you type this out and think "Yea this is a genuinely good argument"
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u/BraxbroWasTaken 10d ago edited 10d ago
I mean, I would hope I do too, and yet I still, among other things, avoid plausible liability through... basically the entire list given, now that I think about it.. Not just for sexual acts, either.
Turns out, if you follow the list given, the amount of time you're at risk for basically any accusation drops like a stone because accounting becomes so much easier in all forms - you pack yourself into a neat little routine box that hardly ever changes, and if you keep records of that that can be corroborated, congratulations, you should be pretty resistant to false accusations and random misfortune alike.
Just stop existing around others. That's 100% reasonable and appropriate to expect.
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u/Adorable_Owl_2493 10d ago
So I guess all the women who are scared of being raped are doing things to highlight themselves as victims and lead to their rape?
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u/JEXJJ 10d ago
Actually no, you don't have to do anything wrong or appear improper for false allegations to detail your whole life. Money, time, and reputation you will never get back. These cases are very rare, but believing victims of false allegations probably deserved it anyway is pretty fucked up
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u/HeparinBridge 10d ago
“If you have nothing to hide, why do you object to me violating your fourth amendment rights?”
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u/StillMostlyConfused 10d ago edited 10d ago
While the reports/papers aren’t flawed, people’s understanding of it is. I’ve seen more like 2-8% are found to be false but that’s irrelevant.
The issue is that to be found false, there has to be clear evidence/proof which essentially has to be the “victim” that changes their report. Otherwise, if they can’t prove the allogations, the case is dismissed as “unfounded” which isn’t the same as false.
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u/icedadx44 10d ago
Yeah usually to be consodered "false" there has to be irrefutable evidence that the "victim" lied and typically its when they confess to lieing later on in life.
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u/Caspica 10d ago
What's the difference between "false" and "unfounded"? In science all claims that are unfounded is considered false.
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u/tutoredstatue95 10d ago
I don’t think that’s correct.
False and undefined are not the same thing. For example, lots of medicines start out as unfounded and are later proven to be effective. Doctors dont describe “could be effective” as false.
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u/Dobber16 10d ago
In science, you can generally replicate the experiment that supports a claim
In a criminal trial, particularly one with abuse, you probably don’t want to do that
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u/StillMostlyConfused 10d ago
Legally, false is unequivocally false. For this, the “victim” has to make a mistake by informing someone that they’re lying (in which that person gives over the evidence) or admit to lying. Unfounded is that it simply wasn’t provable which means that it may or may not have occurred. It doesn’t mean that it didn’t happen though. But we also just can’t assume that it did either.
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u/Caspica 10d ago
I'm not sure if I understand. How do the scientific studies which you refer to establish what's "false" or "unfounded" when the terms mean completely different things in a legal context? I mean, if I accuse someone of something which is completely false, but never say as much to anyone, then legally that would be "unfounded" but still possibly true, whereas scientifically it would be unfounded and thus "false" until proven otherwise.
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u/FixIllustrious4953 10d ago
Yes, because science and law aren't the same thing. Another example of this is, in court, eye witness testimony is one of the highest levels of evidence, but in science eye witness testimony isn't even considered evidence.
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u/International-Bee688 10d ago
There are other ways accusations can be proven false vs unfounded. False can also be like combinations of video and gps data. Example is cell phone gps shows the two people were never together as well as video surveillance shows they were where their cell phones showed they were. Or he was in custody of a jail during the time period he was accused of doing something and can be proven to have not escaped. Unfounded can mean there is simply no evidence or insufficient evidence to suggest that it occurred but it isn’t disproven either.
Legality and science simply aren’t comparable apples to apples. Science expects a lot more black and white than law, where more grey area is expected. As such, their approaches and terminology can differ.
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u/Caspica 10d ago
So an "unfounded" legal claim means that there were no methods available to conclusively prove the claim to be "true"? Isn't that literally the definition of "false" in science?
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u/HeManDan 10d ago
No these things are identical. Unfounded means no facts guranteeing/proving truth. Where false means facts that actually prove not true. Both unfounded mean not clear. Not sure if true or false. Could be either eithout further study
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u/International-Bee688 10d ago edited 10d ago
No, you took some giant leaps there. I said to suggest that it occurred and you jumped to “conclusively prove the claim to be true”.
To help frame the context: I’m sure there are numerous insignificant events in your life that you can’t conclusively prove to have happened by a scientific standard. Outside of science that doesn’t mean that it is false that those insignificant events in your life occurred. They really did, but you can’t prove it. And I also have no way of disproving them or of even trying to.
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u/Caspica 10d ago
From how I understand your example you're saying that there are a number of events in my life which I can remember, but doesn't have enough objective evidence to back up, but that doesn't make my claim of those events being true "true". My perspective of my life, or how I remember it to be, isn't meaningful to anyone but me. Just because I remember something as something, and am fully convinced of it, doesn't mean it's actually true.
Maybe I'm just too dense to understand this, or none of us are educated enough to fully understand.
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u/Jamb9876 10d ago
The problem for men is women going for social clout. A woman is filming in the gym and my eyes go past her she will freeze that and label me a pervert.
Or a woman trying to pretend she needs help to attack the poor victim. There was one where a woman was waiting for someone to carry her luggage up,stairs in Paris I think and no one helped.https://youtube.com/shorts/LnSN13-C1pY
This woman shows the guy as being bad but didn’t mention the woman watching. I expect she had planned this but if you are recording I may let someone know a lady has a problem.1
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u/Enve-Dev 10d ago
I mean. Not terrible advice. Don’t live a life where you can be accused of wrongdoing.
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u/RutherfordSaint 10d ago
I was so confused as a guy thinking this was saying I should do this to avoid being falsely accused, and I was like "Jesus do guys find it this hard? Just don't be fuckin' weird."
Nope, I know what it's saying now. Yeah dudes are stupid.
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u/Adis_Gruntledfatty 10d ago
The words of a pearl clutching incel who probably was a sex pest
Anyone running this narrative that all men need to tip toe around women's potential accusations need to cut down on Joey Swoll shorts, or stop being a legit sex pest
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u/supercleverid 10d ago
I think I agree with this assessment if it's coming from a man trying to make that claim, which is a reasonable interpretation depending on who is delivering this advice. But I also see a possible interpretation that the advice here is the kind of advice men give to women as what they view as the way women can avoid being assaulted, thus pushing the blame for their victimization onto them. From one source it's a toxic message but from the other it's satire.
The way you interpreted it was the way I interpreted it at first too, and then I thought about it a little more and realized it could also be satire.
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u/Xeno9116 10d ago
Sounds like a rapist
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u/Accurate-Check362 10d ago
Are you suggesting he could rape someone a purchase a snack simultaneously?
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u/Downtown_Eye5736 10d ago edited 10d ago
That is what the ones who are afraid of that do...the ones you need to worry about are the ones who aren't afraid.
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u/icedadx44 10d ago
I mean... I know some guys who followed this plan pretty well and wouldn't be one on one with anyone of the opposite sex, they got called wierd and creepy for it
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u/Wide-Supermarket3474 10d ago
This post really is a higher testament to iq that I don’t even think op realizes. Iykyk
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u/RedundantBiomass 10d ago
Men, exhibit some agency and take action to mitigate your fears. To wit, 37 states have single party consent (audio) recording laws, meaning if you are physically present you can legally record conversations. Get consent, record it, and privately save said recording indefinitely as insurance against false accusations.
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u/Alternative-Still195 10d ago
This wouldn't hold up. Even with a recording you need the full name of the other person speaking and in this type of situation the date and time. A recording of a yes to sex on a Monday won't cover you for a rape on Tuesday. Also even in one party consent states recording the act of sex without the knowledge of the other party can get you into trouble. Recording the yes without knowledge is fine, recording the encounter is not.
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u/RedundantBiomass 10d ago
To file a charge the accuser will need to provide a written statement of some kind providing details about the alleged incident. As I said, step one is get consent, so assuming that is the case there is no evidence to prove a crime happened because it didnt happen. In addition to that, details in the written allegation may be directly contradicted by the recording. At worst, that casts doubt on the credibility of the person making the accusation and at best proves they made a false allegation, opening them up to charges and/or civil damages.
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u/Crazy-Crazy-3593 10d ago
That would not obviate an accusation that consent was obtained under duress; or that the person giving consent was not able to give consent; or that consent was withdrawn as soon as the recording stopped.
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u/General-Lie8709 10d ago
I mean yeah that’s legit how I live my life as a 24 year old guy. Pretty solid advice honestly lmao
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u/para__doxical 10d ago
Yah, I dated a girl and she dumped me on Valentine’s Day for her ex-boyfriend.
She saw me ~3 years later and accused me of raping her, while I was in public around my friends and strangers.
Sometimes it’s character and not genitals
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u/NoFirefighter1657 10d ago
Yes, this is correct. Men shouldn’t sleep with women who they don’t know much about. There’s no such thing as “free pussy.”
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