Oh that’s super fucked up and should be changed immediately. Unfortunately a case of such will have to happen and then be taken through the court systems to challenge the law. I’m not saying it doesn’t happen! But it happens so infrequently that I doubt anybody with the opportunity (I.e means to do that court battle) has experienced it— I feel that’s common sense and would get judge + jury defense so quick
Do u really think that all men or even most take sadistic joy in abusing women and ruling over a world of their ‘own’ violence (only ~1-1.5% of men in the USA will be convicted for a violent crime in their life).
Yes. Because if they weren't they would stop it. It continues because men are satisfied to let it continue. We just expect women to accept men as beasts incapable of controlling their actions, and charge them with the responsibility of managing men's behavior. Watch how you dress, where you go, how you act, what you drink, etc. Because obviously men might hurt you. And if they do, it is somehow always your fault.
I’m gonna ask you the same thing I asked the other person who responded: what would you actually have men or society do to stop it? Men are not accepted as beasts incapable of controlling their actions, if they cannot control their actions we take away their freedom and send them to jail. It truly sucks that women have to do those things to feel safe or protect themselves, but other than social engineering and time what else would you recommend that we actually do to fix the remaining problems? Are there still any actions that the government could take or laws that could be passed that would further equality in your opinion? Or is it more an issue of enforcing the laws and protections that already exist? And same thing I said to other commenter please nothing vague I’m looking for specific actions that could be taken and laws that in your opinion could be passed as I cannot find any proposed or think of any.
How about we start with the fact that I no more have to justify my opinions to you than you do to me. Your instinct that I need to justify myself to you and that you have standing over what is and is not true is exactly the cultural attitude that needs to change.
If you truly want information about how to solve these problems, the info is out there and easily found. But what I'm not going to do is subject myself to your little gotcha interrogation where your goal is to try to make me look silly, not to actually understand or solve a damn thing.
It's almost laughable and quite frankly, I'm embarrassed for them. They will take the time to engage in a reddit chat, only to fight against the response that was given, when in the EXACT same amount of time it took to respond, they could do a google search that would introduce them to THOUSANDS if not millions of articles, books, youtube videos etc. on the subject. They can then reach out to people who have dedicated their lives to the subject to engage them.
You don't have to be convicted of a violent crime to hate women, benefit from sexism and not stand up against it, and/or indulge in toxic masculinity. Talk to the women in your life about their experiences. Do a google search about the mental physical and emotional violence of patriarchy. It's all there. Good luck.
When I watched the film Taken, it was so difficult watching the scene where the women are drugged and lying on beds and the men were lining up to rape them. Children are stolen every second to sell so men can rape them. Sex trafficking kids is the most evil thing next to being the man who buy a little kid to rape. Just don't. Don't buy or rape children. How hard can that be.
I think it is also globally men are 81% of homicide victims, so the cherrypicked data here is also misleading as it implies that women are victims more then men when that is absolutley not the case
Men also have a male violence problem. What shall we do about the rate at which men kill each other (and everyone else)? Or is it only a problem when women discuss it?
When 1 in 5 women is sexually assaulted daily and an estimated 316 million women and girls experience intimate partner violence or sexual violence every year (averaging roughly 865,000 women every day). About 1 in 3 women (roughly 840 million globally) experience physical or sexual violence in their lifetime. The possibility of violence for women is ALWAYS there. Your daughters, which I hope you don't have, your sisters, your mother will explain that to you. If your mother hasn't she has failed you.
Yeah it feels that way until you or people you know are victims or potential victims. You clearly need to spend more time with the women in your life if you even have any. Praying you do not have daughters.
I think everyone agrees that’s bad but this specific kind of things seems pretty hard to solve. Maybe more psychiatric help will help with that to a degree but is that really what this is about or is it for gender war nonsense
I'm just saying to put things in relation instead of endless gender war. If you care about the lives of women, or anybody for that matter, you could save more lives by banning SUVs and implementing safer traffic laws. That could easily save more lives of women worldwide than total number of murdered women easily, by orders of magnitude even. Murder is such an exceedingly rare occurrence, it's lower than it's every been, and has been decreasing for decades. Me putting that into relation with traffic deaths is me pointing out you care more about some senseless gender war than the actual damage being done, because I know you aren't running around claiming cars are the ultimate evil.
But all you people seem to care about is fanning the flames of gender war, which is itself immensely harmful, and probably itself causes more violence against women. This endless fearmongering and playing the blame game does nothing to help.
And for merely pointing this out you want to instantly assassinate my character.
Sexism is real and it destroys women. The POTENTIAL for violence -- sexual and physical violence is a reality that most women have to be fearful of every single day whether it happens or not. Its baffling that you would equate women wanting to feel safe to a gender war. You are the problem. I don't have to assassinate your character. You're doing it all on your own with your horrifying perspective.
This sort of reaction is why normal people look down on Redditors. Living in fear is a choice the fact is that those same women are orders of magnitude more likely to die on their drive to work than to be murdered by a man. Trying to make violence a gendered thing is why they’re saying you’re promoting the gender war.
Your sort of response is exactly why women walk down the street clutching pens as weapons—because we can't even trust men to take our safety seriously. Men are responsible for the overwhelming majority of violent crime, yet you're so far up your own ass about this imaginary "gender war" that you refuse to acknowledge the actual issue. Women are fighting for safety. You're fighting to dismiss their fears. The fact that you see women wanting to survive as an attack on men says far more about you than it does about us. My heart bleeds for you that your mother failed you so badly.
The potential for violence? Are you kidding? Violence against women pales in comparison to violence against men. If we're going to conflate everything in to one little snippet without context then I'm sorry but that's the truth.
😂 yes men are their own worst enemy as well as women's. The difference is body strength and rape. The majority of Men can rape and brutalize women in a way that women simply cannot do to men. It's unfortunate that whatever raised you didn't explain physical differences between women and men.
If you want women to feel safe you shouldn't be running around telling them they are going to be murdered. Nothing of all of this increases women's safety, all you are doing is diluting any effective effective messaging that could be done, and making any effective measure harder to sell, while making people more anxious for no reason.
There are 100s of things that could be done, but people rather fearmonger. Like spreading some hyperbolic messaging about people being harmed and then upvoting it on Reddit and patting yourself on the back for having the "right" opinion has ever helped anybody on the planet. I would argue you have done more harm the good to your own cause.
Anyway, have fun with you gender war, nothing to find there but heated emotions and nothing to show for it.
You're right and more sensible across all your points.
Just leaving this comment here to support a bit of rationality and common sense amongst the cesspool of inability to critically think or process information rampant on the internet.
There are many women who sincerely advocate for men. They are hated and ostracized by many other women; but it is not true that not a single woman speaks up.
When you say that there are "rare" exceptions, your disdain for women is very clear 😂. You would be a much happier person if you engaged with someone who you don't hate.
When I say that they are rare exceptions, I'm just stating facts and observations. There's no feeling behind it one way or another. I wish more women actually treated men with a more egalitarian mindset, treating men with the same consideration and appreciation they treat men, but they don't. Most are still under the mindset that women are universal victims, an a lot of that comes from feminism or in-group bias/sisterhood.
They are victims of men and have been for thousands of years. Sexism isn't some made up thing. Percentages of women being raped and murdered by men isn't a made up thing. Women not being not vote, own property, have rights, learn about their contributions, having the ability to ability to go to school, claim rape is all new in western societies and non-existent in many others. This is a conversation you really should have had with your mom.
The fact that you think women are just victims of men, and have been for "thousands of years" kind of tells you everything you need to know.
The existence of rape doesn't mean that women are universal victims either. The fact that you would prioritize this one form of crime, above all others, and ignore all the other ways women can victimize men or the socio-economic factors that might play into why men commit crimes, or that you just erase all the ways in which men have been devoting themselves to women for "thousands of years", just goes to show that you don't really care about facts or reality, you just care about hating men.
You just glossed over all of the OTHER ways men have harmed women I said in addition to rape didn't you ;). It's okay. I see you clearly. Men are each other's worst enemies as well. You guys murder, rape and pillage each other horrifically. The statistics of women doing it to men are significantly less. Delusion must be a fun place. Every statistic is right there in black and white. Clearly your issues run deeper than intelligent conversation. I'm so sorry you had such a terrible mother and now all women must pay. Be blessed.
Why is that a joke? I applaud you for leaning into your woman hatred. I think you are doing a service and I wish you take more of these guys with you. Teach a class.
No she doesn't hear herself and she doesn't listen to others either. I can literally say "I don't hate women" and she would just hear "i hate women" I don't hate women but women clearly hate men so why would I date them when I have the ability to date men. Straight men don't have that luxury they have to either stay single or find a mythical women who doesn't hate men and the latter's not going to happen anymore
With all of your venom, I truly hope for your peace of mind and for the safety of womenkind that you engage with women as little as possible. You might not hear or feel that venom in yourself but for us it's in neon. Again, I am a big fan of yours for making your decision to exclusively date men. "Straight" men absolutely have options. As a supposedly bi person, you understand firsthand that sexuality is fluid. I know women who have had their first healthy, loving relationship dating a woman. A lot of men would benefit from that as well. You clearly are.
Again, go through this thread and take ALL of them with you. I applaud you. I would encourage a woman who felt like you to do the same. In no universe does the sisterhood exist to degrade men and if you feel like a critique of patriarchy, of women asking to feel safe and heard and constantly denied both is the issue, applies to individual men, then your mother failed you and you haven't done any research. It's like someone being a critic of homophobia and a straight person saying "you SO anti-straight"
You only live in one universe, and it's this one. "Sisterhood" literally just exists to degrade men, and "patriarchy", as you define it, is a perfect example of degradation. "Patriarchy" is just men filling the roles that women want them to fill. It's almost entirely driven by women. And, instead of just recognizing it for what it is, you use it as an excuse to justify more hatred towards men and preferential treatment for women.
Women having an antagonistic view of men, especially when men are already doing everything they can to make women happy(if not outright slaving their lives away for women), is just degrading men.
Right. And where are these mythical women standing up for men? Neverland? Even the women who do claim to fight for men fail to do one thing: not make it a suffering Olympics. It shouldn't be a case of "well.... women have it worse so we'll focus on them first" it should be "oh a person was raped and the rapist got off scott free? Nuh uh absolutely fucking not. They need to face the full extent of the law right now" the fight should be for everyone at the same time. Not women first then maybe we'll get to men eventually. That's TRUE egalitarianism not forgetting one side of the equation just because "oh they don't have it as bad" (which btw isn't even true but I digress) until misandry and misogyny are treated the EXACT same way. Until ALL victims of violent crimes get justice. UNTIL ALL of the LGBTQ+ community is treated fairly and their rights codified. We will never EVER be truly equal
Perhaps if women were not still recovering from the thousands of years of injustice, 3rd class citizenship, etc. one could wholeheartedly agree with you. There is no country on Earth where men cannot legally work, will be shunned if they are widowed or get a divorce, do not have access to equal education, where it is illegal for them to go to school. You lumping this with LGBTQ rights is like conflating people who suffer from Cancer with people who suffer from Bipolar disorder. They are completely different communities who experience discrimination and injustice in completely different ways.
Sigh and you proved my point. How hard is it to just say "nobody should suffer"? How hard. Why must you always whine about how women have had it worse? And yes it IS whining because guess what cupcake we know life fucking sucks we know what the elite have done to you. We KNOW and we are working to fix it. The least you can do is not bring it up every time men reach out every damn time men say "hey maybe you could help us too?" Women complain constantly about men derailing conversations by doing EXACTLY what you did and yet it's ok for you to do the same thing. It's ok for YOU to minimize men's issues just because women had it worse but it's not ok for men to minimize yours. That's a double standard you should NOT be minimizing men's issues and men should not be minimizing women's. Period
Sweetie, who is saying anyone should suffer 😂 .If I'm fighting for LGBTQ equality, how stupid would it be for someone to say, "but what about cancer victims"? Individual groups have historically experienced different horrors and terrors and they have every right to grieve and share about that experience until THEY feel change is happening in their favor and THEY feel they have truly healed. It takes NOTHING away from me to hear about the LGBTQ plus discuss their experiences, protest rights being taken away, asking for change and to be seen as human beings. It is a completely different from people who experience ablism and can't get onto a bus or have access to streets because their wheelchair doesn't fit. They have a right to be heard too. Women have had THOUSANDS of years of inequality and horror and have a right to discuss it. If you don't want to hear it, get off reddit, sit up in your box and watch fox new every day- you'll be fine.
The thousands of years of "injustice" also involved men maiming themselves to build infrastructure, going across oceans to find wealth and dying in wars to protect society.
I 100% sympathize for women throughout history who had their agency taken away from them but that didnt happen in a vacuum, men suffered too. We can all inhabit a victim mentality but I'd rather see us acknowledge reality.
This isn't really "women advocating for boys". Most of these female activists go against the church because they see it as a patriarchal evil. If it were women molesting children, they wouldn't even bother. Those women just want to go after male abusers, because they are men. Of all the examples you could have chosen, you picked one that also happens to be mostly motivated by misandry, not a desire to help men or boys.
Why is brotherhood being defined by its relationship to women in the first place?
Men don't form brotherhoods simply to discuss women, much less degrade them.
Brotherhood is about loyalty, mutual respect, shared adversity, mentorship, accountability, and having other men you can depend on when life becomes difficult.
It's about building men up, not tearing women down.
Notice how even male solidarity gets framed through the lens of its potential impact on women.
A man's friendships don't need to justify their existence by demonstrating their usefulness to women.
Of course, degrading women isn't a prerequisite for brotherhood. Nobody needs to defend that behavior.
But neither should men be made to feel that gathering together, discussing their interests, or prioritizing male friendships is somehow inherently suspicious.
Men are entitled to meaningful communities that exist for their own sake. Brotherhood doesn't require female approval to have value.
Interesting thought. Invert the genders and most women on reddit would think the degradation of men is a small price to pay for sisterhood, and that men should be glad to degrade themselves for women's benefit.
Show me a time/place where the genders have ever been "inverted" and the horrible consequences these conditions brought upon men. Anyone can make up just-so stories about how the people they oppress would be just as villianous, given half a chance; so what?
I really hope a lot of the "men" in these comments stay away from women and start dating each other. Sounds like another man will appreciate you significantly more than you say women do.
A very uncontroversial statement, frankly. It's the idiotic title of his book that is the issue. Men harm women. Women harm women. Men harm men. Women harm men.
the fact that so many men are in here whining is proof that your entire political movement is doomed. just infighting and stupidity while women continue being harmed en masse. what a fucking joke lol.
Women are friends with women because theyre women and they align.
Then they gossip and talk about others. Put people down to inflate themselves.
Women also prefer dominance and leadership. Not all.
But theres a reason why women mostly read 50 shades of gray. Smutt in general.
They like a certain top of art and that is reflective of them.
Its really about recognizing the patterns and tk stop making excuses for patterns attributed to labels because it hurts feelings. Its not a hard rule. But a strong tendency.
Lol. Im 35 and im living through it. First hand. I never thought this way until recently and thats what i have experienced. Across family and friends. If you walked in my shoes you'd understand. Frankly, it's a long story that deserves a post of its own.
Where do you see most? Sure it happens quite a bit online. But where do you actually see this kind of behavior in person, where you would say most men don't agree?
Yeah of course not, most women seem pretty agreeable that the degradation of men is a perfect price for sisterhood, so why wouldn’t they be gender equal?
I wanna know who is even advocating for degrading women for brotherhood. And I mean actually degrading women not "counting anything as degrading because I claim it is".
In europe we've been into several decades of hard feminism where every non foreign man is essentially indoctrinated to put women as highest priority for anything and any reason which often times includes treating men as second class citizen.
If anything, we're quite literally degrading women to preserve hypothetical women.
Nobody disagrees on the statement that brotherhood should not come at the cost of degrading women. The disagreement is with the premise of the post that men allegedly define or understand brotherhood to be about degrading women when in reality, it shouldn't and in my opinion doesn't have anything to do with women in the first place.
What kind of man knowingly buys a kid to use as a sex toy? It is literally the most evil thing a man can do and WTF do Americans do? Elect a child rapist for President.
Tell that to the Tate Brothers. Perhaps you don't get it because you're not really reading what the guy is saying. Nobody is saying there is anything WRONG with brotherhood. The author is saying that IF the cost of brotherhood is the degradation of women it's too high. If it doesn't degrade women, there's not issue.
Lol I'm married with kids. If my stay at home / part time working wife started talking like I need to get home and cook her dinner or "I don't carry enough of he mental load" any of that shit shed be out on her ass so fast her head would spin and she would get way more than she deserved splitting up the marital assets.
Do I mind cooking when I get home before 6pm? Not at all and I do it every time I can. I catch up with laundry on weekends and put the kids to bed too. But I'm not about to let self righteous women who can't break 6 figures tell me I'm worth less because they have a vag lol. Women are out of their minds these days and have an insanly inflated sense of what they bring to the table.
I feel bad for your wife. It's horrible being in a relationship with someone that devalues what their partner brings to the table just because it isn't monetary. Feeling entitled to free labor and then enjoying the power to destitute that partner because of what they give up to take on a harsher more unforgiving role in the relationship is not love. Somehow her getting half the martial assets is more than she deserves even though you chose her as a mother to children and agreed to her being at home. If not you agreed to stay in a relationship with her regardless.
Inb4 "my wife wanted to be a SAHM and I work 6 bazillion hours a week" - being the partner with no retirement, taking a hit to your resume, and reducing your ability to work is still a sacrifice with proven benefits to children and you would have to work regardless of being married
The obvious solution to this is to go back to premarital sex being taboo and punishable. Nobody is allowed to fuck until they get married, so stuff like gangbangs can’t happen without punishment. There’s no murkiness about consent anymore.
They aren’t automatically equivalent. More that if brotherhood requires you to degrade women (and I would even extend this to degrading anybody), that sense of brotherhood isn’t worth it
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u/Timbucktwo1230 🫖 Mod ☕️ 11d ago