r/PoursTea • u/Timbucktwo1230 🫖 Mod ☕️ • 14d ago
FeministTea👩🏻🎓👩🏿⚖️👠🥾 The Healing Vibe ❤️🩹
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u/Darthjinju1901 14d ago
The sad thing to me is that the people who need to hear and read this the most, are not here. And they'd likely never read it, or if they do, dismiss it. Indoctrination is one hell of a drug
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u/AssBlast2020 14d ago
didnt they do something like this in Iceland where women protested and stayed home for a full day?
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u/Motor_Barracuda7359 14d ago
Yeah, countries can't really afford to let men do that, the whole infrastructure shuts down.
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u/beerandglitter 12d ago
I mean can’t afford to let women do that either considering they’re in very important roles too. Pretty sure the entire healthcare system would be in shambles if that happened.
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u/Royal-Hornet9813 6d ago
A lot of men had to bring their babies to work because their wives and the women who worked at daycares etc. were on strike. I bet the employers hated that.
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u/lateralUnilateral 13d ago
Yep and no one noticed.
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u/Simple_Extent6868 9d ago
Good glob you’re dumb. It paralyzed the national infrastructure and a pay and work equality bill was passed in the very next legislative session.
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u/grafikfyr sipping on that true tea hunty yes gawd boots okurrrr 14d ago
In ancient Egypt, the man would be expected to do all the housework, when his wife had her period. Bring that back.
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u/Motor_Barracuda7359 14d ago edited 14d ago
That was part of a larger arrangement that women would consider sexual slavery today. Cherry picking the parts you like and disregarding how that was made possible and why within a system women literally never created is basically the calling card of feminism. And I say that as a guy who cleaned more than my exes at any time of their cycle.
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u/grafikfyr sipping on that true tea hunty yes gawd boots okurrrr 14d ago edited 14d ago
That one thing that I'm talking about did, in fact, happen in a society. Yes... Is your point that "there's context to all things and sometimes the context was bad!"...? Because, sure..?
You could choose to just engage with what I said, instead of criticising me for all the stuff you felt also needed saying.
I'm sure, if you read my original comment again, that I actually DID NOT call for sexual slavery. AS I SAID it'd be cool if we gave women more consideration and maybe even took over necessary tasks if they needed us to during their period. I think that'd be cool. That's literally all I said.
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u/I-screwed-up-bad 13d ago
I think their point was that tradition was part of a larger school of thought that used periods as an excuse to marginalize women.
Having accommodations for periods would be great though.
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u/Iamjackstinynipples 13d ago
There's a lot of revisionism and cherry picking with history. There was a video of ewoman talking about how "Viking culture" embraced homosexuality and gya relationships were common.
Until she got fact checked by a historian, who was like "well yes, but there's a caveat - it was only if you were a top. Basically it was like being a prison bitch"
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u/SjakosPolakos 13d ago
"Stop participating in the policing of other women."
this one is going to be hard for many women
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u/RedeemedNephilim 8d ago
This is where all this nonsense collapses under the weight of its own bullshit.
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u/Physical_Dentist2284 14d ago
Somebody repost this in the trad wives sub.
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u/drifter91 13d ago
Why? Should we not allow women to make their own choices? Are they not capable of thinking for themselves and making their own decisions?
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u/StoicheaMan 14d ago
It's going to be tough to raise boys into being anti-patriarchal when they see their female peers reward the most patriarchal boys of the bunch
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u/Lonely_Upstairs_5263 12d ago
Curious, where do you think the saying "Nice guys finish last" comes from? Was it just a bunch of incels in their basement being edgy?
There is a line between confidence and being an asshole. I don't think you know that line exists based on your comment above. Public example, Trump's wife Melania. She knows her husband did awful things to little girls. She met him on a plane named the lolita express where trump first bedded her. Trump isn't confident, he's an asshole who rapes little kids, but there are apparently 30 million women in the USA who believe he is the second coming of Christ.
"This isn't a gendered issue. The problem is that women tend to, in my opinion, prefer confident, charismatic men who make them feel safe. Men like this do well socially, and often get unfairly labeled assholes by men who are bitter that the man's partner chose him instead of them. And would feel that the man is an asshole based on that alone"
Again... trump did very well socially. Also raped a lot of women and called for the execution of innocent minorities ... but he's not an asshole? Yes, women reward the patriarchy on a regularly basis. trump is literally the definition of patriarchy and he has a line of women 10 miles long waiting to suck him off.
"Do women sometimes pick unsuitable partners? Absolutely. Men do too"
Can you provide an example of over 30 million men directly supporting a women who is doing everything in her power to restrict them to second class citizens and make laws governing their bodies?
Women didn't even show up for Harris or Hillary. Keep pretending there aren't a high number of women who support the patriarchy though.
Legit question, are you trad wife or something?
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u/midnight_guard99 11d ago
> The problem is that women tend to, in my opinion, prefer confident, charismatic men who make them feel safe.
This doesn't align with what most women say about men today though; how is it possible that women prefer charismatic, confident men who make them feel safe and yet we see stats that it's men close to women who cause most violence to them? It doesn't add up.
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u/StoicheaMan 13d ago
Keep your head in the sand, but it's observable reality. Do rosters not exist?
Confident, charismatic boys that excite them tend to be more patriarchal than the boys who get nothing. Have you never met a player?
I just think you'll have to prepare boys for this reality. Otherwise they're going to see for themselves what works.
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u/Dizzy-Challenge3985 13d ago
So true. I 💀inside when I see sooo many women throw themselves at the most sexist misogynistic abusive patriarchal jerk of all time, with a roster as long as the list of citizens in 🇮🇳🇨🇳combined, which unfortunately happens extremely often. And she will see u as the problem if try to warn her
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u/Friendly_Border28 13d ago
> I wholly reject the premise that girls reward the most patriarchal boys
the moment i understand the rest is nonesense
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u/Historical_cycle40 13d ago
Women don't effeminate men though
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u/Entrenched_Whispers 13d ago
Did you mean women don't date effeminate men? If so that's just not true at all lol
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u/midnight_guard99 11d ago
It is true that women prefer masculine men much more on average; sexual dimorphism has a big influence in dating.
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u/Motor_Barracuda7359 14d ago edited 14d ago
Yeah if women were willing to do all that this wouldn't still be a problem for them for a long time now. Especially considering if one subscribes to the idea women have no systematic power, there's no where else to look than the masses of individuals.
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u/ThisPassenger3914 14d ago
Or men and women could work together to make things better but “us vs them” makes people feel they belong to something bigger than themselves so what do I know.
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u/VFTM 14d ago
This means characterizing little girls as sexually aggressive or seductive
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u/fartoomuchlasagna 14d ago
It's less a regional thing and more of a "using vocabulary from the 1830s to be quirky" thing.
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u/Dizzy-Challenge3985 13d ago
No it’s not. It’s AAVE lingo, modern times, had nothing to do with quirky or 1830s lol
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u/fartoomuchlasagna 13d ago
I was a couple of decades off - the first recorded examples of "fast woman" being used to refer to an "immoral pleasure seeker" are from 1850s Britain.
At a round the same time, there are examples in the US of a different usage, with "fast" being used to mean "masculine/unfeminine".
I've not been able to find any good references to AAVE usage (likely because early AAVE is not well documented) - does it follow either of those definitions, or is it an independent development?
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u/Dizzy-Challenge3985 13d ago
It’s a modern, common AAVE term.
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u/fartoomuchlasagna 12d ago
I didn't say it wasn't.
It's also a Victorian era term meaning exactly the same thing.
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u/Dizzy-Challenge3985 12d ago
In general the words we use came from English, since speak English, but rather than stretching back to a hundred plus years ago I was just explaining how the word is used in context of the post. They weren’t pulling terms from Victoria era, they were just speaking regular AAVE
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u/Dizzy-Challenge3985 13d ago
No it’s an expression people for certain communities use recently.
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u/celerypumpkins 8d ago
Point me to where accountability is avoided. This is explicitly calling out bad behavior from women.
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8d ago
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u/celerypumpkins 8d ago
Not policing other women in sexist ways specifically is what they’re talking about. It explicitly says “clothes, sexuality, body”. No person, woman or man, needs to be “held accountable” for wearing certain clothes, having consensual sex, or having certain body types or features.
If you bothered to actually read before commenting you might have understood the context and had something worthwhile to contribute.
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8d ago
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u/celerypumpkins 8d ago
What exactly about someone’s clothes, sexuality, or body do you think they would need to be “held accountable” for? Who is harmed by these things?
Or are you disagreeing that reading before commenting on something is necessary to make the comment worthwhile?
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8d ago
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u/celerypumpkins 8d ago
Okay weirdo. People’s clothing choices are not “crumbling the foundation” of society. Get help.
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7d ago
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u/celerypumpkins 7d ago
You’re literally advocating for insulting people based on what they wear, who they sleep with, and their physical appearances.
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u/lesbophobia_hammer 12d ago
Literally just do what lesbians do minus the munching and you'll have it 🫶
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u/midnight_guard99 11d ago
There is a lot of patriarchal, gender role reproduction in lesbian relationships as well.
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u/lesbophobia_hammer 11d ago
Nah, that's just objectively false.
Lesbianism is the sexual orientation in the world that is female focused, female experienced and female exclusive. Lesbian culture is naturally feminist. A homo-matriarchy is the antithesis to the hetero-patriarchy and all those harmful sex norms.
And tbh the only person who would say this nonsense is a heterosexual bigot or most likely, a lesbophobic bisexual.....
Butch/masculine & femme/feminine dynamics are not hetero-normative.
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u/midnight_guard99 11d ago edited 11d ago
Why would it be false? You sincerely think that lesbians are able to completely isolate themselves from the patriarchal society they live in and never reproduce it in their relationships?
Believing something is "objectively false" outside of realms of math first and foremost is dumb as fuck, and on top of that thinking that lesbians never reproduce patriarchal stuff in relationships is a nonsense only a person with zero awareness could believe in. Lesbian relationships don't exist in a vacuum.
And saying that someone is bigot for saying that patriarchy affects us all is.. just a level of stupidity which goes beyond this galaxy. This is something which was first pointed out to me by a woman feminist - I actually never thought it could be the case as a straight guy, because I never spent time in lesbian circles before that.
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u/lesbophobia_hammer 11d ago
Are you a lesbian?
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u/midnight_guard99 11d ago
It was pointed out to me by a woman who has much more contact with lesbian women, considering she's an important person in one of the biggest feminist organizations in my country. Me not being lesbian doesn't prevent me from saying that. If that was the case, we would need to listen to all those self-hating gays and lesbians having negative stances on anything LGBT+ related.
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u/lesbophobia_hammer 11d ago
And while I'm sure she is a nice enough person, she could very well be a poorly informed bigot that maybe dated woman once in college and cheated on them and married a man, like famous bisexual academics who push lesbophobic nonsense.
I mean, lesbians don't really appreciate non-lesbians trying to look in at a pretty private world that is largely off limits to anyone but lesbians, because people speculate negatively about what they don't and can't understand. I mean just look at the lesbian DV myths & divorce misinterpretations.
If you want a window into our world we can certainly offer you a critical look, but starting it off with a definitive statement based on 3rd hand gossip as though you have a clue what our world is like is not the way to go about it.
Especially when I'm making a positive statement about my community. It just seems like it's motivated by some kind of bigotry. I hope this is not the case.
There's a reason lesbian feminists are the biggest threat to the hetero-patriarchy, lesbians are even hated and erased by non-lesbian LGBTQIA+. Especially the BTQ. Because we are the ONLY female focused, experienced & exclusive sexual orientation in the world.
But do share what exactly you think is patriarchal, harmful or heteronormative and I'll see if I can help.
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u/SpiritualPermie 13d ago edited 13d ago
I think I started this about 8 years ago and it is fantastic. So freaking liberating. I even call out women on their hypocrisies and life is good. Only the real people around which is great.
Edit to mention I have a son and daughter and I am trying so hard to bring them up to respect themselves and the other gender. They are barely out of their teens and people tell me they are too young, but I feel it better to start young, and make them see examples from my own life and around them, before they go off into the world on their own.
My most healing moment was when two days ago my daughter forwarded me a post from this very subreddit about women's rights!! 🤗
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u/Shot-Back9448 14d ago
What's number 11 mean
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u/Mental_Asparagus8123 14d ago
School dress codes
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u/Beneficial-Math-7290 Ina Garten Davita 14d ago
Yes, no shoulders out, mustn’t distract the boys
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u/thenamestammy 12d ago
Stop giving birth at least 5-7 years, only in that case they see women are the ones who can continue life in this earth!
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u/Ok_Panic6891 11d ago
What a sick and weird power fantasy. Affirmations as in this post really turn some women batshit crazy
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u/Famous-Garlic3838 11d ago
That's fine then men will stop maintaining and building the infrastructure that you rely on to live your lives. Good luck!
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u/Ok-rutabaga_B442 12d ago
And will women somehow be uniquely protected during the financial collapse that happens as a consequence of that?
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u/thenamestammy 12d ago
Are women protected today?
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u/PsychologySouth6485 12d ago
Ma'am. If you keep kicking at good dogs, you're going to find yourself surrounded by wolves. Nobody is denying your importance, but I think you forget that the only thing keeping men from their worst impulses is other men.
If you want men to do better, you should prioritize uplifting the men who are doing better. Demonizing all men is just going to make the good ones turn away from you. This has been the entire lesson of the Trump Era.
If you lead with hate and admonishment, those who love you will turn away from you, and those who hate you will stand stronger against you. "You attract more flies with sugar instead of salt" is a saying for a reason. Look at the right wing movement, the only thing it's ever done is hate, which is why it's crumbling the second it gets power. This is the way of the world.
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u/biexhibguy1 11d ago
The men who would turn away were never "good" men. The only thing stopping men from their worst impulses are the men themselves. The entire lesson of the trump era is that most men are extremely stupid shitbags who don't actually care about anyone
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u/PsychologySouth6485 11d ago
Those potenitially "good" men used to be boys. Y'all have been at this since 2014. It's been 12 years. Even I was just a boy when this rhetoric got kicked up. Thank god, I was a bit older and this didn't corrupt me during my formative years.
Things are getting better now, because The Left's loss in 2024 forced them to face the music and change, and Trump's utter incompetence has left The Right in shambles, but we CANNOT slip back into the tendencies that lost us these last few elections. If we do not learn our lessons and make adjustments, we'll be right back here in a decade or 2. And I promise you, it'll be MUCH worse the second time around.
I'm not arguing with you, I'm advising you, warning you. If you think men are just these horrid creatures, and you keep kicking and poking them, you're going to make a self-fulfilling prophecy.
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u/biexhibguy1 11d ago
I'm a man. I've been in too many male spaces where misogyny was rampant. It's normalized. The good men wouldn't turn away. A man who turns away wasn't ever a good man, just a man who wants a good reputation.
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u/PsychologySouth6485 10d ago
You're looking at people too far gone. Similar to how you can't convince a gay person to turn straight. Do you think I'm talking about turning those dudes around or something? They are way too far gone. I'm talking about men who haven't fallen in yet, but are primed to.
Nobody in this world is born good or bad. Moral standards are set by your community and environment. You can't nurture somebody in hatred and expect them to turn out good. And saying, "well good people wouldn't do *blank* anyway" is an excuse to justify spewing your own hatred instead of looking for a solution. It's like a racist having a bad experience with a black person and hating the whole race.
I'm not asking you to be kind to misogynists, I'm asking you to be kind to men who have nothing to do with it. It's the internet, people can congregate around just about anything. I've women's spaces where misandry was rampant, you don't see me generalizing that entire gender. Because the internet loves echo chambers. And judging humanity based on those echo chambers is a recipe for psychosis.
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u/Lonely_Upstairs_5263 12d ago
Yes..... there are laws protecting women today.... at least in the US....what country are you in?
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u/thenamestammy 12d ago
Remind me the laws about body autonomy...
Oh, yeah,
Women can't have abortions even if their fetuses are dead inside them and literally poisoning them.
You can't be real...
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u/Lonely_Upstairs_5263 12d ago
Ah! Now it makes sense... you must live in Alabama or Oklahoma. Might as well be a third world country. Where I live women still have full access and rights. I suggest you find a new state to live in and remember which party is taking those rights.
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u/thenamestammy 12d ago
Yeah 🤣🤣
Women's struggles are zero in your state.
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u/Lonely_Upstairs_5263 12d ago
??? When did I say women's struggles don't exist where I live? Women have it rough wherever they live.
You specifically called out abortion rights. Where I am that is not an issue as our state government is fully onboard with the will of the people.
Also, please don't pretend like women have cornered the market on suffering. Such a martyr.
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u/thenamestammy 12d ago
Are you a conservative male? 😁
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u/Lonely_Upstairs_5263 12d ago
No, I lean a lot more left... but the dems have really dropped the ball the past 8 years or so. I am fiscally conservative though. Need to get the budget under control... getting wild over here.
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u/Slight-Monk-9702 11d ago
"Agreed! All women should agree to stop giving birth to show those men! They will certainly have a choice in the matter when the end of the species is coming!
They also don't have bodily autonomy even today!"
Brainlet. Genuinely room-temp IQ.
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u/shallpasss 11d ago
More than men, since now till forever, but in the name of equality, it should change.
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u/Economy_Context3233 12d ago
If you had to pick one act in the entire world that definitively required the input of both genders, surely conception is that act?
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u/Overall-Move-4474 8d ago
Nah they don't need our cooperation just our sperm they've made that blatantly clear with how they refuse to acknowledge male victims of rape
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u/SLAMMERisONLINE 8d ago
Stop giving birth at least 5-7 years, only in that case they see women are the ones who can continue life in this earth
Entirely your right to do. Just realize that for every one that abstains they are simply replaced by Mormons and Amish who have 10 kids each.
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u/essssgeeee 7d ago
But they're not vaccinating, so it's not like they'll all make it to voting age.
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u/Lonely_Upstairs_5263 12d ago
If women decided that "We control all reproduction and no women will be giving birth moving forward!" It would simply end humanity....? That's what you want? extinction of your own species? Sounds rational /s .... good thing there are already organizations working to take this nuclear option away from women such as yourself. Artificial wombs and embryos derived from stem cells. We have come a long ways ... and soon we won't have to worry about insane people proposing we end humanity to prove a point.
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u/thenamestammy 12d ago
Learn how to read and analyze the text. Don't embarrass yourself more.
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u/AmazingAge6753 9d ago
I mean, he’s not wrong. You did suggest holding the continuation of the species hostage
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u/Lonely_Upstairs_5263 12d ago
Learn how to respond to questions dear... do you want the end of our race?
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u/shallpasss 11d ago
Dude, get out of here. It is just a waste of time. Never argue; just keep it pushing.
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u/AffectionateWhile507 10d ago
If women as a class categorically refused to uphold their end of the species contract, men as a class will categorically force it.
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u/WinTheOnion 12d ago
Words dont meant much without any action behind it, start talking, start doing
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u/NormanMcNorm 12d ago
That's great... except attractive women will have zero reason to participate and things will continue as they are.
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u/RoyalCandid2789 11d ago
So... Don't date abusers, don't vote stupid, and generally don't make dumb life choices and don't be an asshole? Yes that is a good idea regardless of what you want to achieve and will improve both your life quality and the world overall
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u/Recent_Safe4951 10d ago
Just maybe, let's start by not siding with the overseas populations that oppress women the most, who dont even allow women to show their hair in public
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u/ArmsVSeaOfTroubles 10d ago
Women not only helped create the patriarchy, they help sustain it. Even those outwardly against it act in order to preserve or rebuild it when times are tough or when it’s time for some woman to take accountability, then suddenly it’s “We need special treatment for women! Men and women are not the same! How can a man treat a woman this way (like he would treat a man)?!” It’s denial and double standards all the way down.
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u/AchillesTheLegend007 10d ago
There’s a reason every single functioning society is a patriarchy. All laws and rights are derived from the will of military aged men. If all women refused, men would make them comply. You might argue with the morality but nature doesn’t care about morals.
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u/Here4daKicks 14d ago
Yall, seriously underestimate the effectiveness of violence in the assertion of so called Rights.
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u/A_temporary 14d ago
While I can see the sentiment the patriarchy is far more familiar with violence than anyone else
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u/666_basement_m1lf 14d ago
Well even if one starts doing them, no change is gonna occur unless a mass protest occurs.
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u/Miserable_Pin2518 The Timeline Sucks 14d ago
The interpersonal change is the most important part tho?
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u/SjakosPolakos 13d ago
mass protest with what goal exactly?
mass protests dont solve anything by themselves
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u/Friikyz 11d ago
This sounds exhausting and miserable.
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u/celerypumpkins 8d ago
Not judging people, being kind, and standing up for what’s right sound exhausting and miserable to you?
Sure, the last one takes genuine hard work, but if you think the first two are “miserable and exhausting” that says a lot about you.
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u/MartianLukas 10d ago
Al lot of these read as “stop being homo sapiens”. I have doubts about the feasibility of those statements but i do appreciate where it comes from
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u/celerypumpkins 8d ago
You have a low opinion of human beings.
Just because you are incapable of such feats as…being non judgmental of others, being kind to boys and men who show their emotions, and standing up for what’s right…that doesn’t mean human beings in general are equally incapable.
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u/MartianLukas 7d ago
You are making a category mistake, probably due to looking at humans through a manichaeistic lens. I wasn’t talking about kindness but about the limited capabilities of the species.
I will never be able to fly, lift a 1000 kg or spend an hour under water. Life isn’t a marvel movie. No matter how hard you’d like it to be.
You may find it a harsh statement, but it is in fact a kind one. One that allows for forgiveness and tolerance. I’m basically nudging to view humans as flawed, not to force people in moulds that do not fit.
Skinner died in 1990, his ideas long before that. Please, let him rest in peace. Please stop ressurrecting them. That would be the kind thing to do
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u/perfectVoidler 11d ago
In democracies every adult has one vote(america excluded). Since Women are >50% of the population, absolutely every western system is also legitimized by women.
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u/ArgueLater 12d ago
I'm really confused. This has already been the trend for 20+ years now. None of these ideas are new or anything less than obvious.
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u/vigorben 11d ago
The same old song and dance again. Then they start complaining about why men don’t date old women when they turn 40.
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u/Annual_Gate_6985 11d ago
Over 30 and their answer: "they are pedophiles" or "they are infantils and unable to take responsibility (for 30+ "princess" with other alfa-scum's children)"
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u/gigglephysix 10d ago
every time you shame bi men, every time you reward the worst, every time, every time you kick women with infinitely less power.
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u/ProfRefugee 10d ago
Insane to me that people don’t have the basic self respect to already be doing this without needing someone to tell them how😂 shouldn’t this just be square 1?
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u/ArdentGamer 10d ago
"Patriarchy" is literally just women choosing men who enable them to do less. It's women quantifying men by how much strength and violence they are capable of, how much they are worth and are willing to spend on women, how much they are willing to tolerate from women in silence, how much effort they are willing to exert on women, and how much they assert themselves in the relationship so that they don't have to be burdened with it. Every part of "patriarchy" requires women's participation, because it is effectively just men doing what they're see women want in the first place.
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u/Overall-Move-4474 8d ago
Funny how women only care about the parts of the patriarchy that harm them and not the parts that harm men hmmmm almost like you lot are just as selfish as you claim we are?
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u/celerypumpkins 8d ago
Did you read the post? It explicitly mentions being kinder to men and not perpetuating patriarchal ideas that harm men. Idiot.
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u/Overall-Move-4474 8d ago
sure bud
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u/celerypumpkins 8d ago
Ohh I get it, you can’t read. Poor thing.
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u/Overall-Move-4474 8d ago
I can read i just don't buy the bullshit. It only mentions not suppressing boys emotions that is the LEAST of the harm patriarchy does. They only mention it because they HAVE to lie they have to do the bare fucking minimum to help men. And EVEN THEN it only ONLY is on the men's shoulders. It doesn't say to not protect women who harm men for example? Or tell women to be accountable for their actions
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u/MediocreBlood760 7d ago
I read it as advice for women that women can act on. What parts of the patriarchy that harm men can a women act on?
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u/Overall-Move-4474 7d ago
For one you could advocate for the FBI to put being made to penetrate in their definition of rape. You could advocate for funding to male shelters. You could stop calling every gathering of men a misogynistic plot. You could advocate for automatic 50/50 custody unless one parent is proven to be unfit. You could advocate for anti discrimination laws for men that women already get. Getting the draft completely abolished. The list is a lot longer than this but this is just off the top of my head. There are hundreds of things women can act on in regards to helping men that they just.... don't
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u/MediocreBlood760 7d ago
Fair enough, all good initiatives in my opinion.
I think everyone should do those things. Men and women.
I was going to argue that this post is very woman specific I.e. only women could do it like 'stop having relationships with misogynistic men' which i think is just sound advice in on itself.
But there are things like 'stop supporting policies that restrict other women's rights' and everyone should do that.
I suppose your partially right and the person who created this slide show is thinking heavily from a female perspective rather than a 'take down the patriarchy' perspective.
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u/Overall-Move-4474 7d ago
I admit I didn't make my point great I was frustrated at the time but yeah. There's plenty of ways women can fight the patriarchy for men that i at least hope just didn't occur to them at first
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u/IzzyBella5725 7d ago
then how about you do something about dismantling the patriarchy, if it's harming men so much. I agree it also disadvantages men, and almost every actual feminist agrees on this, but I'm pretty sure you haven't seen many discussions on this because it's evident you don't know much about what you're talking about, and that you didn't even read the post. When something disproportionately affects women, why would you expect a high amount of discussion on how it affects men. It isn't as equal as you want it to be.
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u/Overall-Move-4474 7d ago edited 7d ago
So because women have it worse you think that means it's ok to be "yeah we'll fix women's issues first then circle back around to yours.... probably" because spoiler alert when you treat it like this it doesn't circle back. Men will never be equal to women that's true becuase feminism doesn't fucking care about men. I know exactly what I'm fucking talking about and I've been fighting the patriarchy for 23 years but I can't fucking do it anymore I'm exhausted, depressed, and fighting off chronic fatigue thanks to thalassemia. I physically do not have the energy to continue fighting the patriarchy and women sure as hell are only going to tear down the parts that harm them and keep the rest of it so long as it benefits them. That's how humans fucking work. Our entire species is vile disgusting and evil. And should NEVER have existed in the first place. We are either proof there is no god or a cruel joke by the universe
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u/IzzyBella5725 7d ago
women aren't some how advantaged in society more than men other than a very select few situations. real feminism strives for equality, and it really isn't true that the monolith of "women" only care about issues that affect women only. it just so happens that the patriarchy harms women significantly more than it harms men.
i don't want to downplay your own experiences and if you've tried fighting to tear down the patriarchy that's absolutely amazing and i genuinely do respect you for doing that. but if we put women at a 4 on a scale of equality and men at an 8, you can't add 6 to each of them and get the same number. you said in your first sentence, women have it worse, women's issues inevitably need to be covered more because there are more issues to fix. you just can't expect the issues that affect men to get the same total focus as those that affect women, that's giving men an unfair advantage and therefore still upholding the patriarchy.
I'm not encouraging male discrimination and I absolutely do believe the patriarchy harms everyone, but it's just not reasonable nor fair to talk about and fight against issues to men as much as those to women.
and yes, some women and feminists do only want to abolish what harms them and keeps what benefits them, but that isn't truly feminist nor is it a majority from my experience. we should work on spreading the truth about the harms of the patriarchy instead of generalising the people fighting to dismantle it as only wanting to dismantle part of it.
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u/Overall-Move-4474 7d ago edited 7d ago
The point is not to give everyone a +6 to use your scale it is to have the fight for both happen simultaneously it is to fight both for men's rights and women's at the same time. You can acknowledge one side needs more help, but focusing entirely on that one side means you inevitably ignore the other. I have heard very, very few leftists let alone feminists even talk about men's issues. However the worst part is when they talk about women's issues it tends to slip from "women have suffered" to "men are evil." The nuance is lost in these polarizing shouting matches between the manosphere and feminists. The problem shifts from "bad people do bad things and we need to hold them responsible" to "this entire demographic is bad." That's not even mentioning how often the rhetoric devolves into saying vile disgusting things that if men said about women would likely result in an immediate ban. Like when Musk did selective breeding to not have any daughters yet when women say they will abort all male fetuses that is not called out nearly as much. Or the general call for violence against men is just labeled as "venting"
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u/IzzyBella5725 7d ago
why does it need to be simultaneous though? women face more, if both issues were solved qt an equal rate, men would reach 10 on the scale before women do. men's issues ARE acknowledged, many many feminists DO want to eliminate the issues against men. your comment is something I could agree with, the problem is it's not the case that men's issues are ignored, there are just so much fewer issues that they aren't covered is much. I really really suggest you seek out more feminist spaces, because men's issues are actually brought up more than you think.
and yes, a loud group of leftists/"feminists" do preach that men are evil and encourage a world with true discrimination against men, these people do demonise men and I completely disagree with them. I think it's hypocritical and counterproductive to real feminism. but you also have to realise these people are a very loud minority, and they shouldn't sway your view on feminism and the harms of the patriarchy. I can tell you understand why the patriarchy is a problem and that it does hurt men too, but please try not to generalise feminism as all man-hating. call out those who do that and uplift others who acknowledge both. if you see male issues ignored, bring them up while also acknowledging that women's issues are just so much more and more severe. men's issues can be valid without invalidating women's issues. it's not a competition on who is discriminated against more. humans are bigoted, inequality is everywhere. don't fall into a mindset where you resent women for fighting against their own issues
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u/Overall-Move-4474 7d ago edited 7d ago
I don't resent women. I just slip further into depression and suicidal thoughts every day. The only person I will end up harming is myself.
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u/IzzyBella5725 7d ago
please please please find what helps you. i sound like an automated response, but suicide doesn't solve anything. your life is as valuable as any other. I really wish the best for you, even if I don't know you. I don't know how I can help you, but let me know if I can do anything
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u/Overall-Move-4474 7d ago
You can't.
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u/IzzyBella5725 7d ago
maybe not now but if you ever need anything at all. i doubt you want help from a random redditor but please find what helps you. the world has a lot of bad but it also has a lot of good. it can get better, you got this
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u/THRlLL-HO 14d ago
Boys are the ones getting part of their dicks cut off when they’re born, sooooo…..
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u/VFTM 14d ago
And who set that system up
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u/3ArmsNoSouls 14d ago
Fair, but I don't want to hear any more complaining about loss of abortion rights under that logic
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u/kon--- 14d ago
Lobbying women to do as they otherwise self-determine to do...it's just not up to me. Also, I'm opposed to the narrow focus here that appears to provide empathy for women, encourages to avoid judging women while has a strong mind toward holding men to account. As if women, mothers...have no role here.
Stop raising sons to be be patriarchal is pointing a finger at the root cause. If you mean to hold men to account, to be consistent does mean taking a look at who instilled, fostered and supports patriarchal leanings in the man and doing an accounting there as well.
A healing vibe should be holistic, should provide equal sympathy, equal accountability, equal opportunity, and be mindful of avoiding the practice of double standard bearing hyprocisy.
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u/Pandonia42 14d ago
Did you read all of it? Because there is advice there about how to raise sons in terms of not making them bottle up their emotions and holding them accountable.
Surely mothers have a large effect on men's outlook, but let's not pretend that men are not also influenced by media, friend groups, coworkers, culture, etc, etc
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u/kon--- 14d ago
Thanks for asking! It's uncommon in a realm where most bolt right at a predetermined conclusion.
Yes, I did read and consider each slide. That slide in particular. I'm unsure what about avoiding dismissing a boy's emotional needs leads to a person who matures into someone who respects, supports, and defends the agency of others. Or is better prepared, better adjusted for getting along with others in this world.
The slide, while a fine idea, is incomplete. Okay, a boy has space to express himself, hopefully has mature guidance on learning how to navigate their feelings. What though comes after that? 'Now that you understand you can share your thoughts and feelings, it's time you take your Bible and follow an ultra-orthodox path, son'
Again, the slide is incomplete.
Also, nowhere in my initial response am I pretending the world around an individual man has no influence in their perspectives, interactions, outlooks, philosophies, and behavior towards others. Apropos...media, friends, coworkers, culture etc etc do result in men who are kind, decent, benevolent, respectful, and secure in themselves while completely onboard with anyone and everyone self-determining their own lives and own agency.
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u/Pandonia42 14d ago
Thank you for the thoughtful reply.
In terms of raising boys to identify with, and process their emotions, it likely accomplishes several things.
First, the only negative emotion we (society) really allow men to express is anger. So sadness, frustration, hopelessness often is expressed as anger. Now I'm not a psychologist but it stands to reason that carrying and expressing anger likely leads to more violent behavior.
Second, allowing men to access and process their emotions likely make them more empathetic and able to understand how others are feeling. This means that they can advocate for groups of people that are underrepresented like women and people of color to help bring about a more equitable society.
Third, allowing men to access and process their emotions means they can build a stronger network of male friendships which would do wonders for easing the male loneliness epidemic. Which would also ease the blame many men place on women for the epidemic
Finally developing empathy makes them more appealing partners to women which makes them more dateable. This would help alleviate some of the anger and hatred directed towards women from men who find it difficult to attract or keep a partner.
Your comment read as someone who is suggesting that women are to blame for the patriarchy. While I agree that sexism is so deeply ingrained in both men and women making some women perpetuate the patriarchy, the idea that women are solely or even mostly responsible feels absurd
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u/A_temporary 14d ago
And who educated the coworkers? In the patriarchy the main parent responsible for the education of the children is the mother.
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u/Pandonia42 14d ago
She is one influence out of many. Fathers also influence largely by example and boys look to their fathers to see how to act in the world. You're being ignorant on purpose
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u/A_temporary 14d ago
Not completely I just ignored all of the indoctrination in patriarchal institutions targeted at women
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u/kangorooz99 14d ago
They don’t have fathers?
Once again, when the kids turn out good it’s cause they had a good father but when they turn about bad, it’s mom’s fault.
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u/A_temporary 13d ago
No not really traditional fathers dont really do much. They aren't really there their base line is not making things worse by being abusive. Sometimes also the source of some practical skill or punishment. This is of course more of a platonic idea of a traditional nuclear family and most people don't live like that.
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u/TheLastGameplayer 8d ago
This is classic female rhetoric.
This is an easy study to look up: little boys and little girls play in groups on the playground (boys group and girls group are separate). The boys play and determine rules of engagement before playing or as they're playing. If a conflict arises, they resolve issues generally within the rules they have agreed upon, and continue playing the game.
Little girls are generally egalitarian, wanting an equality of outcome for everyone involved in their game - even though in reality that doesn't happen. If a conflict arises in the girls' game, the game simply ends, because there isn't a way to resolve the conflict.
This continues into adulthood. The more feminized a society becomes, the worse conflict resolutions we have. Because the operators are using women's mindsets to try and resolve conflicts. This simply is not how they were designed.
You can cry and say that isn't very nice, but you see it in every facet of your life if you look with objectivity.
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u/Timbucktwo1230 🫖 Mod ☕️ 14d ago