Regrets And Perspectives

[u/Timbucktwo1230]

[u/Timbucktwo1230]

Source and Credit:

@poets.title on Instagram.

[u/Some-Tear3499]

My late wife, (my third wife and I was her third husband )had some discussions about our 15 yrs together. She was close to or already in hospice care at home. Stage 4 breast cancer. We knew what was coming. We talked about the ‘gifts’ we had given each other. She told me that I gave her freedom. Freedom?

She said when I wanted to build a Faire Garden in the front yard, you said go ahead. When I wanted to go back to school at age 50, you said yes, When I wanted to build The Tea House in the back yard, you said yes. The Faire Garden could be seen from the street, people,from the neighborhood could see it, and the first yr they came and visited it. The Tea House is a 12 x14 feet structure, 16 feet high. She designed it, she built it almost completely by herself. I was grunt labor, for hauling materials, and buying her tools for birthdays and holidays. It took 3 yrs to complete it. She went back to school to get a 2 yr. Technical Degree in Engineering. That enabled her to really advance in her job. Suddenly she was making almost the same money I was making after almost 18 yrs on a now union job. She said I gave her the freedom to pursue her Spiritual expression, with friends and with groups, she became a Pagan. She told me that was the best thing I gave her. The freedom to do what she wanted to do,,what she wanted to pursue. If she wanted to dress up for the Renn Fair, she said I told her to do it! Be want ever you want to be!

She said no one else in her life before me let her do what SHE wanted to do.

She has been gone 22 months now. Forever 55.

[u/TitaniumButtercup → u/Some-Tear3499]

[u/The_Judge_Of_That_ → u/TitaniumButtercup]

[u/Erikawithak77 → u/Some-Tear3499]

Thank you for sharing this beautiful story of your wife’s experiences. You are keeping her alive, to all of us.

I’m so sorry for your tremendous loss.💙

[u/Some-Tear3499 → u/Erikawithak77]

🫂

[u/largelyinaccurate → u/Some-Tear3499]

My heart loves that this is who you are.

[u/Some-Tear3499 → u/largelyinaccurate]

I didn’t start out this way. I bought this house and property ( 1.3 acre) 6 yrs before I met her. Got it back after the divorce.It was MY HOUSE. It became ‘our home’.

[u/Pendo-illsmackabitch → u/Some-Tear3499]

Isn't it crazy and totally weird that grown women have to ask for permission as if they aren't fully capable beings? Grown and mature and responsible enough to carry a fetus, birth a baby, grow/raise a human, but yet, not fully cognizant to just do things without permission.

Of course, things are a little different now. I think about 40% of women can do what they want when they want without permission, but we still have a long way to go.

[u/Frylock_dontDM → u/Pendo-illsmackabitch]

In a relationship you make decisions together.

We plan together and come to decisions together and express how we can/can't support each other in various ways.

We've lived together now for 10yrs with two fulltime jobs, a child, a house, and on a single car for nearly a decade, but the joint decision making is how we make it work.

[u/Some-Tear3499 → u/Frylock_dontDM]

This

[u/IllustriousNeck8219 → u/Pendo-illsmackabitch]

My wife had to ask me permission to do some things...... like stop working to stay home with the kids (reducing our income by about a third and only reducing our expenses by less than half of her take-home pay, while also leading to worse health insurance for the family with a higher premium), adding a semi-permanent decorative touch to a wall in our house, going out with her friend and leaving me to do bed time alone, getting a rabbit, buying a dining room table, etc.

And in return I ask her permission to do things that affect her, like turning a large chunk of our yard into a vegetable garden, going to pay cards with my friends and leaving her to do bedtime alone, going back to school for my masters, etc.

When you decide to have a partner in life, that means consulting them when you make decisions that affect them.

[u/SnooCauliflowers9874 → u/Some-Tear3499]

What a lovely story. It made me tear up a little. It’s wonderful that you found each other.

You have had the kind of partnership that most people dream of…

[u/Some-Tear3499 → u/SnooCauliflowers9874]

She granted me the same freedom as well.

[u/All_the_Bees → u/Some-Tear3499]

This is a beautiful memorial to a woman who sounds like someone I would love to have known. How lucky you were to have each other.

[u/LobabyChick → u/Some-Tear3499]

That’s beautiful

[u/Royal_Mechanic_5245 → u/Some-Tear3499]

It sounds like you guys had a wonderful marriage. I'm so sorry for your loss. 

[u/stink3rb3lle → u/Some-Tear3499]

I'm so sorry for your loss, she was gone too soon and it's still so recent. I hope you keep telling stories about her.

[u/SoonerRed]

I gave up going into an internship and residency after vet school so my husband could go to law school.

As soon as i accepted a position, he told me he no longer wanted to go to law school

[u/Trustme_ima_doctor12 → u/SoonerRed]

Did you divorce him? Cause I would have

[u/SoonerRed → u/Trustme_ima_doctor12]

Yeppers

[u/Trustme_ima_doctor12 → u/SoonerRed]

Good for you!

[u/Zalophusdvm → u/SoonerRed]

Did you swap back to the residency path post divorce? Depending on your specialty of interest (and how long you stuck out the marriage) might not be (have been?) too late!

[u/Tough_Pangolin_7471 → u/SoonerRed]

That's awful.

It reminds me of Betty Broderick. She was supporting the entire family herself while her husband went to med school. He got his MD then decided to go to law school.

[u/Senior_Violinist5296 → u/Tough_Pangolin_7471]

This was my ex husband.

When I got pregnant, I left college to move to his city so he could finish his degree (his parents supported us). When he finished his degree, I was supposed to get to finish mine, since he would be making money so we could afford childcare.

When he finished the first one (took him five more years!) he decided to go back for a few more classes so he could get a biology degree under his belt and do PA school.. okay, only three more years, right?

Took him two years to finish the bschelors of science add on. Then he missed the deadline to apply to PA school and decided on med school instead (another several years.. and still I stuck with this man!!). Then the next year he missed the application deadline AGAIN because he was typing his essay up in the window on the website at 11:45pm and an error happened and he lost it all.

Then I started planning to divorce him. I didn't make it happen until he'd started med school a couple years later and he was pissed about it, but I had waited so long to get to be someone besides a maid and a mom.

[u/ayeffston → u/SoonerRed]

Pardon me, I don't quite follow. So, you're saying you didn't become a vet, that you chose a position outside that field or an administrative position, instead of practicing veterinary medicine, which is what you wanted?

If that's the case, it sounds like your husband was threatened by your becoming a doctor, so he entertained the idea of law school with a subconscious motive of keeping you from proceeding with your goal. ("If my wife's gonna be a DVM, I'd better be something other than a shoe salesman")

I say "subconscious" because he could've have known that it would work.

[Typo: I meant he couldn't have known it would work]

[u/spacer9631 → u/SoonerRed]

I hope your quality of life is infinitely better than his.

[u/Archfiend_DD]

Don't waste your time always searching for those wasted years...

-Iron Maiden

Edit: Thanks for the rewards kind Redditors.

[u/themerk4224 → u/Archfiend_DD]

🤘

[u/NoOutlandishness2097]

Posts like this remind me of my ex and make me thankful I left prior to kids and that I'm currently single

[u/Timbucktwo1230 → u/NoOutlandishness2097]

[u/NoOutlandishness2097 → u/[deleted]]

Yeah, I can see that being true for this post. I will say that the potentially fake nature of this post is otherwise irrelevant to how it reminded me of my past, and made me thankful for my present.

You're allowed to see fiction that reminds you of your trauma and be thankful that you're no longer in that situation.

[u/DARG0N → u/NoOutlandishness2097]

same.

[u/Funsternis1787]

This is seriously the story of the lives of my parents.

Mom wanted to be a nurse. She finally became one at age 38, then they both died young.

It is a sad one.

[u/actuallyserious650 → u/Funsternis1787]

Wait, you can’t put the “it’s a sad story” warning at the end of the story.

[u/paperanddoodlesco]

Imagine we had a country with free childcare - neither would have sacrificed themselves.

[u/subs_on_a_sailboat → u/paperanddoodlesco]

Or simple contraception. This whole narrative is derived from the kids being a surprise and not a conscious choice by either parent.

[u/candybubbless → u/subs_on_a_sailboat]

Yeah lol who would've thought that multiple unplanned pregnancies before college would make life more difficult.

[u/TheDufusSquad → u/subs_on_a_sailboat]

Also this idea that children and marriage have to happen before you’re even 25. You can get all the way through schooling and well into a career before you have children. At that point you can also afford childcare and both you and your partner should be adjusted to splitting the household chores evenly in your spare time around your career. 

[u/ZumbaRey]

I don’t want a gender war , I want a class war .

[u/Maela_Ithring → u/ZumbaRey]

[u/BillyYumYumTwo-byTwo → u/ZumbaRey]

This isn’t gender war. It’s about unpaid labor that is so essential but doesn’t get compensated, which kind of is class war. And yes, it disproportionately affects women. “No gender wars” doesn’t mean you can’t acknowledge when sexism occurs.

[u/Dudewhocares3 → u/ZumbaRey]

No need for a gender war if you just stop downplaying women’s issues.

Just food for thought

[u/guysomejust69 → u/ZumbaRey]

They are intertwined

[u/Darthnemesis2]

So this was just written by ai and posted for karma?

[u/Mithrandic → u/Darthnemesis2]

And the narrative.

[u/FujiwaraHelio → u/Mithrandic]

Not necessarily. Could also be for engagement.

[u/Impossible_Eggies → u/Darthnemesis2]

I'm not overly familiar with the tells for AI. Can you tell me why you think it's AI generated?

[u/Darthnemesis2 → u/Impossible_Eggies]

The entire storytelling structure, the one sentence lines, "that matters to me". The more I read the more ai tells i see.

[u/a_duck_in_past_life → u/Impossible_Eggies]

"you just made sure that saying yes would destroy the entire system"

Who speaks like that? That sentence alone just reeks of AI

[u/Haunting_Tax_963 → u/a_duck_in_past_life]

someone, many people in fact, would have had spoken like that in the past in order for AI to even produce this mimicry.

[u/Salt-Lingonberry-853 → u/a_duck_in_past_life]

TBH I kinda speak like that, but I have also been told on a handful that I speak in a strangely technical manner

[u/Music_withRocks_In → u/[deleted]]

There is SO much fanfiction going up right now that all reads like this.  I don't know if I should go right to blaming AI or if young writers are learning from AI.  It is a hellscape.

[u/alexm4529 → u/[deleted]]

So I’m not sure if you’ve ever heard of prose and poetry, but this is what it looks like. There are purposeful breaks in the text.

[u/Jealous_Bench_533]

My husband encouraged me to go back to school and we worked on a plan to make sure that we had distributed all the tasks I had been taking care of to the both of us! It takes cooperation and love! Just like I want to see my husband happy and fulfilled, he wants the same for me. So we organize together how to get that goal!

[u/FlamingDragonfruit → u/Jealous_Bench_533]

This is how a partnership is supposed to work!

[u/HeadOfMax]

I spent almost a decade working myself to the bone while my ex didn't work and just went to school. Every time I saw a light at the end of the tunnel that she would be done and get a job she said she wanted to go to school for longer.

I was so angry all the time as I was working 50 hours a week and doing all the cleaning and cooking while she sat on the couch and complained about how hard her life was.

She took the dog and left me with the kids.

[u/AnxiousMidnight8 → u/HeadOfMax]

Im sorry man I hope life has treated you better since then

[u/HeadOfMax → u/AnxiousMidnight8]

The kids are amazing, work is ok but it could be busier.

My social life is in the tubes though.

Thank you

[u/new_to_OklahkmaCity → u/HeadOfMax]

Something like this happened to me before I graduated as well weren’t married but we were engaged I’m sorry that happened to you man

[u/Easy_Employment_1595]

I don’t believe that a man even wrote this. Not being ugly here, I just don’t believe it lol.

[u/Born_2_Simp]

I can't believe I'm the only one who's annoyed by this way of presenting information. Why do I have to scroll through an image gallery to read text?

[u/Remarkable-Grand-904 → u/Born_2_Simp]

more swipes and engagement. came here to share my refusal to engage.

[u/GTSinc]

Sounds like birth control would have been better than making compromises. Downvote away.

[u/BanAssaultGeese]

I stopped at the first two slides because, regardless of the situation with the relationship, that's just a shitty thing to say right in front of someone. Or even about them for that matter.

[u/GlobalLie9576 → u/BanAssaultGeese]

…if it even ever happened.

[u/Savage_Cabbage83 → u/BanAssaultGeese]

Agreed. Obviously there is some pain there and they should have those difficult conversations the two of them, maybe with a counselor. But to say those things to your kids in front of your spouse is demeaning.

[u/MindlessDoctor6182]

“You made sure saying yes would destroy the entire system.” Ok but they had a 2nd child. Was this a unilateral decision?

[u/Wabbit65 → u/MindlessDoctor6182]

Not sure how he unilaterally did that. Her resentment is real but misplaced. There is a counseling path out of that if she's willing to address her anger and for him to listen.

[u/PanicStricken]

It took her 19 years to speak up?

She only ever dropped veiled hints instead of speaking directly?

That's extraordinarily childish, and we need to stop normalizing this terrible "communication".

She faced a choice and made it. If she conditioned her happiness on a "someday" activity that would probably never happen, she chose wrong. She's the architect of her own misery. She doesn't get to lord her past choices on someone else 19 years later.

Everyone is responsible for their own choices. Blaming others for your own choices is just creating misery and spreading it around to others.

[u/Daimakku1]

Oof.

This is why I'm grateful of being single and childless in my late 30s. I don't want to deal with this kind of shit.

[u/Street-Beyond-9666]

No man wrote that

[u/AHumbleSaltFarmer → u/Street-Beyond-9666]

It's fragmented AI bullshit slop

[u/Wolfegarde]

This is what resentment turns into. She sacrificed all those things in order to give her husband everything he wanted. The resentment forms when the sacrifice isn’t acknowledged. He sees it as mutual. She didn’t. They didn’t properly communicate, for any number of reasons.

[u/Chuckfinley_88 → u/Wolfegarde]

She sacrificed all those things in order to give her husband everything he wanted.

We are assuming this is everything he wanted with 0 evidence. In fact, he talks about sacrificing time with his children so that he could provide for the family.

They didn’t properly communicate, for any number of reasons.

I agree with this.

But the bigger factor is babies having babies. This forced a decision on them that meant that some party was going to be unhappy or resentful because the children weren't planned. The truth is, for their own happiness, they should have had an abortion, or to suck up and realize that they both made these choices and it is shitty of her to dump all this on him.

[u/BabyRex- → u/[deleted]]

Are you under the impression abortion is an option for everyone? “She didn’t have to have kids” is a very privileged hot take.

[u/lck0219 → u/[deleted]]

I think the point is that she made the initial sacrifice, and momentum carried them along the rest of the way. She knew it, he was oblivious.

Sometimes you can continue on the path you’re on because it makes sense, but know that it’s not the original path you planned and that can be a little upsetting- even if you’re content enough where you are.

[u/MardocAgain → u/lck0219]

All of that is fair, but finally speaking up 18 years later to shit on your husband to your daughter speaks volumes about the quality of communication in this marriage.

I dont think anyone is the good guy here. Marriage takes work and that work is often ugly fights and unpleasant nights as both partners need to stand up for themselves while also being understanding of the others needs.

[u/Chuckfinley_88 → u/lck0219]

momentum carried them along the rest of the way. She knew it, he was oblivious.

a) momentum didn't carry it. at any point she could have tried to get off that ride. piling more kids on really fucked that up, which if everything I am being told is true, it "takes two to tango" but it is the woman's decision on whether or not to have an abortion and nothing a man can do can change that.

b) If she knew it, and didn't say anything, she is complicit as well. Dumping on her kids that their father robbed her of choice, is a really, really shitty way to parent and a super great way of making your partner feel like a complete piece of shit and make your kids resent their father. Great job!

I would imagine anyone doing this is 100% an emotionally manipulating asshole. Just like my mom!

[u/One-Egg7664]

Kudos to my mom, who saw the writing on the wall and ditched my abusive, arrogant, childish father, finished her degree, and established her independence and a career. Doing that was a sacrifice that was well worth it for herself and her two daughters. She was a strong woman. Here's to you, mom, I miss you every day.

[u/Altruistic_Memory643]

moral of the story, if you cannot communicate with the person you are married to, you are not in a relationship, you're just legally tied to a flat mate.

This fictional woman blames everything on her husband, yet takes no responsibility for her inability to communicate what she wanted out of life. They both failed to understand what the other wanted, children should never have been brought into that relationship until they both agreed it was where their future is going. All these fictional humans did was create the next generation of self absorbed assholes who'll get on reddit and bitch and moan about what their partner didnt do for them, instead of looking back at themselves and admitting they're just as selfish and they didnt communicate.

[u/Cultural_Plan_1487]

I feel sorry for the kids… she is very actively trying to push her resentment on to them

[u/unpleasantcreature]

I mean sucks for him to hear but wow, "Thanks Mom, appreciate knowing how you feel about having us kids..."

[u/EternalNewCarSmell]

The other part of this situation is sometimes the one who "keeps moving forward" feels trapped and like they didn't have a choice either.

I make a very comfortable salary for my family and by most accounts am pretty successful in my career. But I am not really doing what I would most like to be doing with my time. I'm just not good enough at what I love to do to make any money at it, nor would I want to do it in a way that pays.

So even being "the successful one" who "got to" progress in their career doesn't necessarily feel good.

And who know, maybe if I did what I really wanted after all I'd be mourning this unrealized version of myself that got to make way more money.

I think the moral of the story is not to mourn things that never were or to dwell too much on past choices, because you can't actually act on any of that and it'll just eat you up.

[u/weGloomy → u/EternalNewCarSmell]

The difference is that you have a career, so if you wanted to do something different you have TONS of options. A lot of women who sacrifice their careers will come out of a shitty, or abusive marriage and have nothing. No career, no education, no means to support themselves. Its very difficult to even get an entry level job after being a sahm and having such a huge gap in your resume. Thats the sacrifice.

Sure it sucks to pigeon hole yourself into a career because of your repsonsibilities, I totally get that, but its not nearly the same as pigeon holing yourself into having no career. Like shes missing out on 20 years worth of career growth, and economic growth, and personal growth. Shes chained to that man for the sake of the kids, and the sake of her own well being after sinking 20 years into it and having nothing to show for it.

Thats why a lot of the younger generation are not getting married, and are not giving up their careers for men/family and expecting men to split the house hold labour and share the responsibility of raising the kids. Cause they can see how dangerous and devastating it can be to give up your ability to provide for yourself and be fully reliant on a man.

[u/duck_duck_boots → u/weGloomy]

Also sacrificing 20 years of retirement investments. If they get divorced hopefully she'll get part of his but will it be enough is she can't find a job? Is she now going to have to worry about becoming a burden to her children?

[u/JayJayAK → u/duck_duck_boots]

More than that, let’s say you marry a great guy who can provide and you want to be a stay at home mom. What if something happens to your husband? What if he’s killed in an accident or has a heart attack? What if he’s left unable to work?

Life is unpredictable. It’s basic wisdom to be sure you have a path to take care of yourself, because you don’t know if tragedy will strike.

[u/Select-Government-69]

This couple has no idea where kids come from.

My wife is currently going back to school. We have one child. If we had 2 or 3 she wouldn’t be going back to school.

How many kids you have is a choice. It’s called family planning. Smart people do it.

[u/Conscious-Wind-7785 → u/Select-Government-69]

That's what I'm just not understanding with people defending the wifes statement to their kid.

She didn't stop her life because of him, at least according to the story we got, she stopped her life because they continued to have kids. School doesn't feed the kids so you need an active income. Ultimately if you can only "hint" to your husband that he fucked up your life but flat out tell your kid that while he's sitting right there, you have bigger relationship issues and you probably shouldn't have had additional kids along the way.

[u/jezebel103]

It's the expectation from a lot of men for their partners to put their dreams and ambitions second to them. When he expects her to move because of a career opportunity and leave her career/family/friends behind. When he expects her to stay at home with the children so that he can further his career. Or even worse: expecting her to keep working (albeit in a lesser paid job because a high end career and children often don't go together!) and still expecting her to take on the majority of the child care and the household chores. Taking it for granted is the worst part. No wonder that young women all over the world are opting out of this system.

And I can say this as an ancient woman, coming from the generation of 'we can have it all'. Which meant that we were working our asses off with a paid job and coming home for a second shift. There were years I never had more than 4 or 5 hours sleep at night because after work there was always dinner to be made, a kitchen floor to mop, a load of laundry waiting in the hamper or helping with homework. Not to mention the endless playdates, the swimming lessons, sportsclubs/tournaments, birthday parties to organise or holiday dinners to plan and parents(in-laws) to take care of. And somehow that all was our responsibility too. And I was not an exception, all the women in my life did the same.

No wonder young women nowadays are saying f- it, I'm not doing what my (grand-)mothers did. And good for them!

[u/complexdevoid]

Most likely not joint decisions according to the text. She clearly disagrees. The reality is that she feels the way she feels. It seems like that I am not denying reality. She isn't happy and she doesn't want her daughter to experience the same things. The husband himself slightly examines this himself by reflecting. The texts in his own words indicate a pattern of discussion agreement and failure. Which he admits is his by the statement made by him " this time it will be different". He failed. There is the accountability. He took it. They clearly have had these discussions before and she is not satisfied. She also is taking accountability for her decisions by saying she chose her marriage above all else and she is not happy. She gets to say that and protect her daughter from the same unhappiness

[u/Small_Ad1890]

People can’t read others minds. If she didn’t state it the blame is on her not you.

[u/obatala0013]

The woman in this story needs therapy.

[u/SpacePenguin227]

… real or not, and while it’s a shitty thing to say in front of someone, this totally happened to me in a sense. A little different tho since I’m also a guy

My ex would get extremely upset at any mention of me going somewhere else or schooling anywhere that wasn’t close to home because he “couldn’t follow” me when I would mentions things out of state that would be for at most maybe like two months of the summer. He graduated college before I did, and was supporting us which I was very grateful for.

But I gave up NASA internships (and others), out of state research opportunities at institutions like CalTech or MIT, and overseas studies because I loved him and felt like my love was more important than my career. So I always stayed in state doing what I could instead of crazy opportunities that I should’ve gone to instead.

Then he forced an open relationship on me (as in we had to have an open relationship or else it was over) after my graduation, and I tried to make it work even though I knew it wasn’t what I wanted. Refused all my asks and “compromises” which looking back for was just asking for basic respect. I knew I should’ve broken up with him the first time it was mentioned, but we had been together for over half a decade, and I thought he actually loved me.

Cue the breakup, and I entered the job market instead of continuing on to graduate school like I originally planned because I suddenly now had bills and shit to pay

Oh, he also convinced me to take the year off easy so I didn’t look for a job before that either because “he loved me so much and had seen how hard I had been working at school the past years”. I work an okay job (not bad at all, but also not what I wanted), but even my current boyfriend pointed out that he doesn’t feel like I was meant for my current job trajectory. I’m good at my job, but it’s not what I actually excel at, but I took it as I needed something. My resume was also less impressive than a lot of my peers who did do the opportunities I mentioned before; I was poorly prepared for going at it alone, and I heavily regret forgoing all those opportunities for a shit ex.

[u/milwaukie_talkie]

She painted her daughter as a burden too. This lady is bitter and cruel.

[u/issuefree → u/milwaukie_talkie]

Yep. She made choices she regrets and blames them on someone else.

[u/gsustudentpsy → u/milwaukie_talkie]

Yes. Don't have sex like rabbits if you don't want kids or think if will impede some of your life goals. Both parents are insufferable. 

[u/Hot_Chart9152]

You people realize that marriage is the main cause of divorce?

[u/BoilzBlisterzBurnz]

Just divorce her.

[u/Low-Breath-4433]

This is gaslighting.

They were a team. Her saying she said it in "small ways" are justifications to herself that she's the victim.

Making him the bad guy and insisting he set up a system trapping her is gaslighting him. He has no way to disprove that, and she did it in front of their children to keep him off balance.

[u/Alarmed-Mess3744]

Use condoms kids!

[u/retiredyoung1]

These people are adults, unless you have an abusive relationship people have the express capability of communicating desires. We live in such a victim mentality society. Sometimes people need to realize they have the ability to do anything and need nobodies permission to do it. It also isn’t up to someone else to push you into following your dreams. They are your dreams, take them. If you have a relationship and that person won’t allow it, end that relationship. We only get 1 life to live. There are no do overs even if it makes you feel better to blame someone else, my suggestion would be for everyone to do what makes them happy now. Not blame someone else for not being happy later.

[u/Confirm_Nor_Deny]

Shes wrong to keep this to herself all the years, that resentment effected your entire household. Passive comments made to intentionally go unnoticed dont count, she kept this to herself.

If she wanted you to stay home so she could go to school she had thousands of opportunities to communicate her wishes and didnt.

[u/Opposite-Ad8208]

She needs to take some accountability I’m afraid. You can’t sit on that for twenty years. She made a choice too.

[u/thesanguineocelot]

My mom's last words to me, on her deathbed, were that she never wanted me, I ruined her life, and that she gave up all her dreams because I existed. That her drinking and self-destructive behaviors all came from her resentment for what I did to her.

She really should have resented Dad, not me, but life is funny that way.

[u/grizzerybear → u/thesanguineocelot]

This is one of the reasons I chose not to have children. I was never good with small kids, and the time and cost of raising children is huge. People kept telling me it’s different when the children are your own. But what if it wasn’t? What if I couldn’t take it and left, or worse. In all likelihood, people said I would have shown up and do what needed to be done, probably true, but what if I resented the kid while doing what I needed to do, not because I wanted to. The risk of me hating myself, my life, or a child was too big. Once kids are older I love being the fun uncle, I just can’t do that other stuff.

[u/977888 → u/thesanguineocelot]

Man that is so fucked. I’m sorry.

[u/Dddddd92]

Having children and a family and sometimes even a partner means sacrificing somethings and making choices. The mother wants the daughter the choose better than she did. She is completely valid in her perspective

[u/Salt-Lingonberry-853 → u/Dddddd92]

OK, but what the wife said is still incredibly toxic and I cannot fathom why this sub is so reluctant to call that out. It's literally blatant. She didn't sacrifice for her husband, she sacrificed for herself and her family.

[u/Putrid-Enthusiasm190 → u/Dddddd92]

Except the part where she blames the husband for her own choices. She's valid in mourning her own choices in life, but goes over the line making it sound like he manipulated her into it

[u/Lumpy-Scratch-8363 → u/Dddddd92]

wow. See I didn’t feel like I had any choices. I grew up poor and felt I had to fill the void. True feminism isn’t about men having shit choices, it’s about women being empowered to having the kind of life that they’ve earned. It’s not some Charlie Kirk BS turned on its head, but rooted in fairness and empowerment. If I were a woman, you bet I would be a feminist. But a true partnership doesn’t mean someone gets screwed.

[u/Waffle_Slaps → u/Lumpy-Scratch-8363]

You don't have to be a female to be a feminist.

[u/Radekin-36 → u/Dddddd92]

Not completely valid. She essentially says she dropped vague hints and never outright expressed her concerns. You know, like a mature adult should absolutely do.

Then after 2 decades suddenly finds a voice to deliver a condescending narrative in front of her daughter that tears down the dad?

No way that's completely valid.

[u/ImpossibleGarlic7472 → u/Dddddd92]

Her perspective is valid. The way she delivered her message was completely wrong. Telling your children that you regret marrying their father is it horrible way to show them how relationships work

[u/Electronic-Smile-457 → u/Dddddd92]

This! She wants her daughter to secure her personal choices before getting to the other phase in her life. It doesn't mean she regrets her children. All these posters try to not hear what the mother is saying.

[u/Time-Weekend-8611 → u/Electronic-Smile-457]

The word she used as "mistake."

Sure sounds like regret.

[u/Electronic-Smile-457 → u/Time-Weekend-8611]

You can make mistakes without having regrets. I'm not sure how old you are, but I look back at my life and would say "what if" and I made mistakes with my career choice. Life is complicated, she wants her kid to go to college away b/c she knows the family can wait. The husband is just feeling pain b/c he is having a hard time realizing it.

[u/Timbucktwo1230 → u/Dddddd92]

[u/TacosAreLife007 → u/Dddddd92]

Valid in her perspective? I disagree.

So she is valid to villainize her husband for two similar choices she made voluntarily (getting pregnant not once, but twice)? And holding that resentment towards him for 2 decades?

You said it yourself, sometimes you have to make sacrifices. I also am making sacrifices to things I wanted to do or buy for my partner and our MUTUAL pursuit to starting a family. Is it right for me to frame my partner for a choice I decided to make voluntarily? No.

She may mourn the lost chances of becoming a nurse, but she has no right to hold her husband accountable. It is he who kept a roof over their heads, after all.

[u/Levintry]

Bro, I'm a stay at home dad that gave up climbing the IT career ladder to take care of my autistic son while my wife who makes double what I did, goes to work. I am grateful for her and so happy I get to take care of our son. It isn't a societal norm for a guy to stay home, but I love it and do everything I can to make sure she doesn't lift a finger when she gets home. Your wife isn't entirely right and she isn't entirely wrong either, I would suggest going to a marriage counselor for a bit to get things back on track with your relationship.

[u/Hotplate77 → u/Levintry]

I don't think this is about right or wrong. One parent should never degrade the other parent in front of the kids. For divorced parents the term is "parental disparagement" and is a big rule with possible heavy penalties - even could be enough to change the custody of the children. OP - have you had a discussion with your wife and let her know how you feel?

[u/Garnetheia → u/Levintry]

This is where I land too, creating a family is going to come with regrets and sacrifices. She's not wrong for grieving the life that could have been but does that mean she hates the life that is? That's where some counseling can come into play.

As for your college she'd daughter....it's solid advice. She should be considering what she wants her life to be.

[u/bwbandy]

This is like one of those movies that would be three minutes long if people just fucking talked to each other.

[u/abstract308]

Sorry, but metaphorically, you need to look over your shoulder all the time now. I know it’s been 19 years, but she has kept this in her mind for all that time. You really need to think about a separation or possible divorce , simply because she is always going to resent you.

[u/SoElusivee]

And that's why communication is important folks. Talk it out instead of bottling it up for 2 decades and quietly resenting someone

[u/Technically_good]

These people are great examples of communication issues in marriage building up and causing issues and divorce later on. Always communicate how you feel, when you feel it. Don’t wait and let it fester. Don’t assume the other person is a mind reader.

[u/kon---]

She's shifted the responsibility and accountibility of her choices to her partner and even her own children.

She's bitter and blaming everyone but herself.

[u/Altruistic_Clue6057]

People need to stop Infantilizing woman. Two adults made decisions. It’s fine to make
Mistakes and regret them, but they are your own. Forcing them on a partner is wrong

[u/Material-Command-854 → u/Altruistic_Clue6057]

I would say it’s worse to burden your child with your marital troubles, but your partner should be concerned with how you feel. That is the bare minimum in a relationship, no?

[u/GoddessHealer]

This story affected me deeply —
Not because I am like either you, or your wife. But because I was the founding director of a BSN program, and built it specifically for students like your wife. And then when on to be the dean of that school for 12 years.

Before building the program, I spent a year deliberately discovering the hopes, dreams, barriers and resiliency factors of the (mostly) women, whose life circumstances threatened to dash their dreams of becoming nurses.

While in my leadership role I did every thing in my power to elevate the power of those women, to help them to persist, and to hold on to their dreams.

You were not aware of your wife’s deepest soul-felt dreams. Because you are a man, you have never been in the situation of not being heard and seen. That is male privilege.

Not being aware all those years of your marriage is not because she did not try to tell you. Instead, it’s because you did not regularly ask yourself if what she wants and needs is as important to you as what you want and need. That is male privilege.

Every woman is always aware—even if she uses contraception—that the sex she had last night could get her pregnant. A man doesn’t think about that. That is male privilege.

I’m not going to go down the whole litany of male privelege right now.

But as your daughter creates her own future, hold space for her. Be silent. Do not contradict your wife. Encourage your daughter to consider her own dreams and how she would make them come true. High school juniors and seniors can be afraid of going away, but it could be the launch of an adventure that will last her lifetime.

I’m proud of you that you have had the humility and love to listen to your wife now —even now, after the passage of all those years of your marriage.

My heart ❤️ goes out to you both. I wish every man would re-consider how his own ways of being in his marriage could impact his wife’s fulfillment.

Her life does not belong to you. She chooses to share it with you. Please consider all the ways you can make it possible to want to make that choice.

[u/Jamizon1]

If the wife had life goals such as those, why did she not voice her aspirations before jointly deciding to continue having children?

Why wasn’t there a discussion between both of them about the road ahead, and what the repercussions of having (more) children would mean?

They both made decisions that shaped their future, for themselves and for their family.

The mother vindictively framing the father as the selfish one, in front of their children, while harboring decades of resentment is immature and childish. If the wife felt this way, she had been in that frame of mind for years, and she should have had a private discussion with her husband long before her heart turned cold.

The husband ignored the signs. He looked the other way when, undoubtedly, the wife was giving clear indications that she was resentful and unhappy. These situations don’t manifest over a month or two. I’m sure there were years of frustration, resentment and discontent boiling under the surface.

They are both to blame, and the result of that was victimization of the children.

If this story is true (who can tell anymore?), it’s a sad state of affairs, indeed.

[u/Zealousideal-Cup348 → u/Jamizon1]

Yeah this story says they just happened to get pregnant three times. Nothing they could've done to stop that

[u/Odd-Village-132 → u/Jamizon1]

Yeah very strange. Also seems to be imposing this on her daughter. The daughter shouldn’t sacrifice something she’s not willing to sacrifice if it will cause resentment. But it sounds like that isn’t happening. Mum is projecting her life onto her daughter. She has her own values and has to make her own choices.

[u/Familiar-Squirrel493]

That was written by a woman.

[u/CthulhuLiesSleeping]

"Unspoken Expectations lead to Premeditated Resentments"

[u/Your_Profit_Prophet]

Reasonable perspectives in this sub. There are two sides. Personally I think the mother is shitty and the well constructed argument doesn't change that. The counter argument, is shut the fuck up and do shit you want to. Go to nursing school take chances. No guarantee she would have accomplished anything... like blaming someone for the millions of dollars you could had had if you had purchased a lottery ticket.

[u/Mangos4Zuko]

Sounds like a lack of accountability from someone with regrets.

[u/BioAnagram]

What an interesting story.
Don't know if I agree, or not, but it gave me something to think about.

[u/Johnny_Marbles]

Let me guess, midclass white lady.

[u/RiskeyCavalier]

"She had been saying it in smaller ways for years" No, she was waiting for a moment where she could excoriate him in front on the family

[u/olmnknt]

Better alone (with half of everything) than miserable.

[u/CompetitiveFennel681]

Safety first men. Always secure your load.

[u/GetInTheHole]

Maybe by kid three she could have said something.

[u/GetItOuttaHereee]

As a single mom I WISH I could be a stay at home mom.

We always want what we don’t have.

[u/sHaDowpUpPetxxx]

You should round up your wife and children and take them to the hospital when the nurses shift let's out. Wait until you see the 40 plus year old nurses staggering out the doors exhausted, desperate for that first cigarette.

[u/Hefty-Profession2185]

I've met women who complain about what they gave up by having kids, like having kids wasn't a choice they actively made.

[u/977888]

Hot take but if she couldn’t handle doing laundry, cooking and taking care of her own kids, she’d never have made it as a nurse.

[u/Organic-Motor1446]

Nothing like some LLM writing to stoke up some bullshit

[u/xLaxCroixBoix]

Imagine if we had a society that provided food and childcare so this would have never happened. Or any sort of support besides for Israel really.

[u/Captain_StarLight1]

I understand where this is coming from, but on the other hand, it’s pretty unfair to hold something against someone for 20 years, after not saying it outright. I get that there like societal pressure, or whatever, but as someone who’s neurodivergent, I personally would never pick up on hints like that without someone telling me full out. I’m not saying that in this situation the husband did nothing wrong, he should have considered his wife’s feelings more, but to say the wife did nothing wrong is also incorrect. Also, to bring it up for the first time in front of your children seems a bit mean, or at least I wouldn’t want that for myself.

[u/What-tha-fck_Elon]

Wow, she sounds awful. If your kids are college age, at some point, she could’ve gone back to school. But it’s easier to blame you and the family than actually doing the work.

[u/Odd_Leg814]

This was not written by a man

[u/Andreas1120]

The subtext clearly states that havjng a job and a career is the only proper way. This is just not true and reflects disrespect in our culture of those who rear our most important asset. The next generation.

[u/Secure_Impress9320]

Kindly remind her she has contributed about $320k per year since she has been 24/7 home manager, child raiser, Financial planner, cook, laundress, driver......

[u/city_in_ruin → u/Secure_Impress9320]

Which he made possible for her to do.

[u/Umm_is_this_thing_on → u/Secure_Impress9320]

And make sure that is reflected in her personal retirement account and a personal savings account in her bane.

[u/SoFloDan]

“You didn’t have to tell me no.”

and

“She said she had been saying it in smaller ways for years.”

Absolutely amazing stuff.

I think I know what the guy gave up: not having to answer for the words he said in an imaginary argument that he wasn’t aware was happening.

[u/TheMainEffort → u/SoFloDan]

Yeah, I think that is an often overlooked issue. It’s also hard to detect; to the wife, it probably felt like clear communication. To the husband, it sounded like the typical griping people do about their day to day.

It’s not the only issue in this conversation, but it’s part of it.

[u/SandiRHo]

My mom used to work in precision optics and helped make a lens for the Hubble telescope. She also had dreams of being an interior designer. Instead she married my father and adopted his daughter and then had two children with him. She gave up her dreams and pursuits to raise us while my dad worked. My dad had no ambitions but she did. Yet she stayed at home to care for the kids. She swears she doesn’t regret it and is so happy she raised us. But I wish I didn’t exist so she could’ve lived the life she dreamed of.

[u/DentRandomDent → u/SandiRHo]

Awww :( if she says she doesnt regret it then maybe believe her, I would be devastated if my children regretted being born. My kids are teens now and I gave up everything to be a stay at home mom and even homeschooled one of them who had higher needs for a few years (he made honors with distinction last year in public so it was worth it!). At the end of my life, no matter what else I accomplish, I truly believe that raising my kids will be the most significant and meaningful thing I ever did.

Admittedly I am now trying to figure out my new direction in life as they don't need me as much, but that is between me and my husband. And I can acknowledge that he got very far ahead in his career while I have none, but again, that is between me and my husband, I will never regret the effort I put into my children. I actually agree with everything in the OP, and me and my daughter have had similar discussions, I hope to see her do everything I didn't.

If you truly want your mom to know what her sacrifice means to you then please live a good life.

[u/Axrelis → u/SandiRHo]

Make the most of your mom’s sacrifice.

And don’t tell her any of this. Make her believe it was worth it.

[u/ArstanWhitebeard297 → u/SandiRHo]

Bro trust me raising and spending time with your kids is 1000% more fulfilling than some random job

[u/No-Cheek7925]

If only someone had taught them about contraceptions at school this could have been avoided.

[u/Berthavlix]

I think the mom's right that the daughter should follow her own path unrestricted. But unless they agree to therapy I think the parents should split up. Neither should be living with the mom's hatred.

[u/Simpicity]

I'm sorry, but this wife sounds like a fucking asshole.  Living with resentment for 20 years, doing nothing about it, saying nothing about it but dropping hints and then dumping it on the husband like it's his fault for having a job 20 years later.

She's not wrong that people should look after their dreams.  But she is wrong for not insisting on hers and blaming others.

[u/TacosAreLife007 → u/Simpicity]

Finally someone with common sense. Thank you. It's honestly sickening seeing some people here defending the mother. She holds the right to regret her decisions, but not blaming someone else for decisions she chose to make.

[u/plat_num]

"I didn't get the chance to have a career, working myself to death for an unfeeling corporation, because I was stuck raising a you".

Bruh, most people would kill for the opportunity to raise their family and not have to worry about money.

Also, "saying it in smaller ways" sounds like a cope for vaguely alluding and that's just not good enough. Grow a backbone and tell your partner how you really feel, its not hard

[u/its_garden_time_nerd]

And that’s why I didn't get married young.

[u/FakeSafeWord]

Unless all of those children and commitments that kept her from medical school were forced on her, as in literal rape and isolation done by the husband, then she's just regretting the decades of decisions that she made and is blaming the father after the fact so that she's not the bad guy because it would mean regretting her children's lives having existed.

The sacrifice wasn't medical school for him, it was for the children and she's refusing the accountability for that.

[u/find_the_apple]

You need therapy. Both yall do. The blame is unhealthy and unhinged. But it should be addressed in a healthier manner

[u/Praesumo]

I love that this entire story could have been avoided with some family planning and some birth control.

[u/Lucky-Opposite-7767]

If she really wanted to go to nursing school she could have been on the pill. Her choice.

[u/Electrical-Volume765]

I bet when you ask her what she wants for dinner. She says “I don’t care”… But she really cares.

[u/tendad]

After almost 30 years of a really difficult marriage, the last straw for me was when my wife told me I’d never sacrificed for her. I’m talking major life choices just to make her happy. (Giving up a business I started when I was 24, giving up ALL my friend group because she was jealous, moving back to her hometown, a place I didn’t like, and living there for 15 years, just to name a few.) She didn’t even try to understand. Never wanted to engage the five times we tried counseling. Fuck that. I’m free now.

[u/Tezz321]

You got a divorce coming your way big fella...