r/AskBrits • u/PsychologicalBend508 Brit 🇬🇧 • 23h ago

This is lunacy, right?

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An Islamic terrorist who belonged to Al-Qaeda and later Isis has been spotted shopping at King Charles’ local Co-op.

Mohammed Yaseen was free to walk the streets near Windsor Castle after he was allowed to stay in Britain on human rights grounds.

Yaseen was part of the Al Qaeda group that beheaded Briton Ken Bigley before joining a unit in Isis that carried out stonings, beheadings and mass executions.

He was released from prison last week after serving just six months of a two-year sentence for illegally entering the country on a small boat, following a near five-year prison term in Germany for his Isis membership.

The Foreign Office has raised concerns he could face ‘mistreatment’ if he were returned to Iraq because of his terrorist past, the Mail on Sunday reports.

Experts have said Yaseen could cost the taxpayer £85,000 as the Home Office pays for his stay in accomodation and his food allowance.

Chris Philp, Shadow Home Secretary, said: ‘We are paying through the nose to feed, clothe and house individuals who pose a clear threat. If Andy Burnham took this seriously, he would deport this man at once.’

A court in Germany heard in 2020 that Yaseen was involved in bomb attacks that killed US troops in Iraq.

He also served as a security guard for Isis, including during at least two mass executions where the victims included children.

Yaseen was intercepted last December by Border Force. He gave officials a false name before routine biometric checks revealed his true identity.

At his trial at Winchester Crown Court, prosecutor Steven Molloy said Yaseen had a ‘deeper and lengthy involvement in terrorism and Islamic extremist ideology’.

It is understood that Yaseen was cleared to walk around town with an ankle tag and observe a 6pm to 6am curfew.

However these restrictions did not stop him going to Windsor Great Park or to the castle.

Yaseen grew up in western Iraq and became a member of Islamic State of Iraq, a franchise of Al Qaeda, aged just 16.

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u/Successful-Yak-5537 20h ago

We haven't allowed him to stay. He is in an appeals process relating to the high likelihood of his torture and death if he is deported, and we are maintaining his right to complete that process

because we are not a failed state, or terrorists ourselves.

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u/OptionIndependent861 20h ago

Do you feel more safe or less safe knowing that a criminally convicted ISIS member is allowed to walk free through the UK, and is paid by the state to do so?

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u/Successful-Yak-5537 20h ago

He isn't being paid by the state, and he isn't allowed to walk freely through the UK. He has not been an ISIS member since leaving after 1 year in 2014.

What would certainly make me feel much less safe is living in a country which started shedding basic rights and legal rules for people deemed sufficiently unpopular not to benefit from them.

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u/OptionIndependent861 20h ago

So shopping at your local COOP isn't being allowed to walk freely? And where do you think he gets the money to shop? Who pays for his accomodation? Health care? etc.

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u/Successful-Yak-5537 20h ago

The article is out of date, as well as incendiary and misleading.

He has since been recalled to prison. When he was 'free', he was on license for entering this country illegally, after being sentenced to two years in prison. His license conditions included a strict curfew and an electronic tag, and any breach would result in him immediately being returned to prison, which is exactly what has happened.

Getting a food allowance and health care isn't the same thing as being paid by the state. Do you think prisoners and those on license should be starved to death, or denied medical treatment? At what point are you going to consider the damage you are doing to your own country in pursuit of spiting its degenerates?

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u/Optimistic-01 19h ago

I appreciate the info you posted but at a high level do you not have concerns about people who come in the country even as fully legitimate refugees but absolutely hate/detest this country?

I feel perhaps if you have good evidence the person hated/hates this country, they shouldn't be given the same level of freedom and right to stay long term (particular stuff like right to family life which often overrides the right of nations to deport later on). Precisely what that means is difficult but interested in knowing your thoughts on that.

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u/Successful-Yak-5537 19h ago

I think it's an understandable anxiety, but I also think it originates in fear and xenophobia. Plenty of white Britons hate this country - not least exactly the kinds of right-wingers baying for this man's blood.

Meanwhile I don't see any evidence that there is widespread hatred of this country by the people who risk death and who spend what are fortunes to them trying to get here in the first place

It goes without saying that I think we do need a security service and other organisations monitoring and neutralising threats, whether from islamic terrorists or white supremacists. There are among other things strong arguments that we better defend ourselves by being able to monitor actual threats on our own soil, where we have full jurisdiction and can better control the state of play

I don't think the solutions to these sorts of dangers and concerns are best found in abandoning the rules-based order and human rights regimes, however unpopular or inexpedient they may sometimes be

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u/Optimistic-01 12h ago edited 12h ago

Edited: I now see that the Judge Christopher Parker KC reportedly said:

“There is a strong likelihood that you will be deported from this country either at the start of or before your sentence is concluded.”

If that's the case, the whole thing is a load of bollocks, as if he is deported then we have any example of a mechanism in place to punish him breaking our laws and deport such people.

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u/Successful-Yak-5537 1h ago

I believe the judge said these words before the issue of refoulement to Iraq came up.

The issue I have with refoulement is that it appears too easy to lie about where you are from. You do not need documentary evidence to be granted asylum because of the obvious effective barrier this would be for a lot of genuine asylum seekers.

I don't in principle object to the idea of a 3rd country to send some people to, as long as it doesn't fall foul of refoulement either, directly or indirectly. This was I think the reason the Rwanda plan failed. We could for example have a system where asylum seekers who are without proof or strong evidence of their situation are sent to a safe 3rd country, while those who can prove their situation are allowed to remain in the UK

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u/asawidz94 19h ago edited 12h ago

Something can only be so misleading. You're saying he's not been a terrorist since 2014 like he's reformed. After his two prison sentences, one of them for irredeemable actions - you're telling us he's been jailed again for breaking his conditions, but you're still ok with him being here? It's not a popularity contest, I think if you're a convicted terrorist, you shouldn't be given any asylum and what your home country decides to do with you is their prerogative.

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u/OptionIndependent861 19h ago

You are right, he isn't being paid by the state, but the state is paying for his living costs. And I also agree that he shouldn't starve. However I feel increadibly uncomfortable that asylum claims take years to process, and that it costs UK taxpayers billions. To go back to my original point, It does not seem fair or reasonable that he is free to remain in the UK whilst well payed barristers with their snouts in the trough of the public purse pursue endless litigation against the state and drag out cases for many years.

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u/Successful-Yak-5537 19h ago

The idea that lawyers on these cases are stretching them out to squeeze as much money from them as possible is absolutely ridiculous. Legal aid pays notoriously little. It is well known among lawyers that a lot of criminal barristers earn less than people working at McDonald's, because of things like hearings cancelled at the last minute, on top of the already tiny fees they receive. And I find it extremely improbable that any court or judge would allow lawyers to behave like this otherwise - they are a lot more sensible and pragmatic than people seem to realise.

Maintaining due process for asylum seekers is not a frivolous expense. It is one of the things that makes us a civilised country, and the amount that is spent on asylum seekers is a relatively tiny fraction of government spending anyway.

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u/OptionIndependent861 18h ago

each of the 90.000+ cases in the backlog appeal cost the taxpayer billions - I'd say putting people up in five star hotels is frivolous. It takes over a year to do a few hours work to process a case - tell me that isn't stringing things out and that its good value for money?

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u/Successful-Yak-5537 18h ago

each of the 90.000+ cases in the backlog appeal cost the taxpayer billions 

Yeah obviously that's not true. The entire lot costs billions, and amounts to a tiny fraction of government spending

I'd say putting people up in five star hotels is frivolous. It takes over a year to do a few hours work to process a case - tell me that isn't stringing things out and that its good value for money?

I am satisfied that none of these claims are true either.

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u/OptionIndependent861 18h ago

Never let a reasoned argument get in the way of your own biases

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u/Thesladenator 18h ago

And then he's in prison radicalising more people.

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u/HaroldTheIronmonger 18h ago

The state we're in now. People bending over backwards to seem virtuous to the point you're defending a man who acted as a guard at public stonings and beheadings.

Wow.

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u/Successful-Yak-5537 6h ago

The thing with having a legal system is that it only works if you maintain it for everyone

It's actually not about this guy at all

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u/HaroldTheIronmonger 5h ago

This post literally is

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u/Successful-Yak-5537 5h ago

No it isn't.

That is why the conversation has moved immediately to why he is here, what rules are in place to allow that, what are the actual circumstances of the case as they apply to those rules and systems and laws

It's also why people like you get away with injecting rank lies and misinformation, because people presume it could be true for a similar example

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u/HaroldTheIronmonger 5h ago

His face is the literally the thumbnail. Youre just moving the goalposts to try and get a more defensible position. The old motte and Bailey.

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u/Successful-Yak-5537 5h ago

If you believe the conversation in this thread is all exclusively about the one example that set it off then you need to read the conversation.

The post you replied to was defending the idea that the rules and laws shouldn't be broken in order to expedite this man's deportation. Obviously that is not a conversation about this one man, it necessarily involves wider social consequence.

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u/HaroldTheIronmonger 5h ago

Well I do no matter how much you try and move the goalposts 🤷‍♂️

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u/Haunting_Village372 19h ago

Can you clarify how he’s not receiving any state benefits? Are you legally involved in his case? Do you actually know that as fact? Highly doubt it.

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u/Successful-Yak-5537 19h ago

Google is your friend.

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u/Haunting_Village372 19h ago

I asked you to clarify the fact you seem to be throwing around. So he’s paying it all himself. You’ve literally just fed a load of lies.

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u/Successful-Yak-5537 19h ago

What? I didn't say he's paying for anything himself, I said he isn't receiving benefits.

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u/CyrilSerpent 18h ago

He’s in prison. There are comments explaining this and linking to articles. You’re actively choosing to ignore them.

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u/Haunting_Village372 18h ago

you do know you can still obtain certain benefits even while in prison.

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u/CyrilSerpent 14h ago

Yeah I do. You can get housing benefit if your sentence is less than 6 months which I imagine is designed not to make people lose their house if they’re on remand and/or aren’t found guilty. Industrial injuries benefit, which I doubt he’s getting unless people in this thread want to invent a story about the government giving him a payout for blowing himself up, and child benefit.

He should be in prison, he’s in prison. The system seems to be working as it should.

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u/Successful-Yak-5537 18h ago

He isn't receiving benefits.

Even when discussing the merits of giving convicted terrorists due process in human rights appeals the reliable British taxpyer turns the conversation into one about fucking benefits. Just when you thought a mind could not become any smaller

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u/TheMassaB 19h ago

White people are being stripped of their rights. Two tier policing for example

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u/trezebees 20h ago

I feel safer in a country where the rule of law is followed even if that means that discussing people get their day in court.

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u/SoggyWotsits Brit 🇬🇧 20h ago

And who’s paying for the appeal and legal aid? He chose to come here, and all it does is cost us money and put us at risk.

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u/Successful-Yak-5537 20h ago

Yes, having a civilised justice system does cost money. Perhaps we should replace it with mob courts and use the money to build gallows made of solid gold.

Our justice system is the envy of the world and our single greatest historical achievement, yet all this patriotic fervour is directed at burning down a thousand years of jurisprudence for the expediency of deporting a handful of criminals.

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u/SoggyWotsits Brit 🇬🇧 19h ago

We spend millions a year on legal aid for people who want to come here. Having a good legal system is not the same as offering it for free to anyone who decides to come here.

The other issue of course is how hard those legal professionals work to keep people here, knowing the taxpayer will foot the bill in many cases.

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u/Successful-Yak-5537 19h ago

We spend millions a year on legal aid for people who want to come here. Having a good legal system is not the same as offering it for free to anyone who decides to come here.

It is the same as offering it for free when someone, whatever their circumstances, is compelled to be subject to its processes and decisions against their will, or is pursuing appeals relating to their domestic and international rights against being deported to their likely torture and death.

The other issue of course is how hard those legal professionals work to keep people here, knowing the taxpayer will foot the bill in many cases.

So you want a 'good legal system' where lawyers intentionally provide inadequate representation in cases that may cost the taxpayer some expense? Are you fucking serious?

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u/SoggyWotsits Brit 🇬🇧 19h ago

Yes. It’s very different offering legal aid to those born here. It’s entirely different offering legal aid to anyone who decides to come here and fight to stay, especially someone like this. I can’t quite get my head around the fact you think he’s some misunderstood individual!

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u/Successful-Yak-5537 19h ago

I haven't said he's some misunderstood individual. I've tried to correct the rampant misinformation and insanities being peddled by people like you.

He got legal aid, I believe, twice: first when he was a defendant in a criminal trial, and secondly for his application to remain on the grounds that he faces likely torture or death if deported.

Do you seriously believe that it can ever be acceptable to effectively deny a person legal representation when they are in either of those positions? Perhaps we should just dispense with the legal process entirely for people we reckon have come here illegally, for whatever reason. You don't foresee any potential problems there, any massive systemic damage to our justice system, for example, or our credibility as a functioning liberal democracy?

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u/SoggyWotsits Brit 🇬🇧 19h ago

I bet you wonder why people vote for more extreme parties.

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u/Successful-Yak-5537 19h ago

Yes, I do wonder at the stupidity of some people. Trying to appease their racism or self-destructive inclinations is not, however, the solution.

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u/SoggyWotsits Brit 🇬🇧 19h ago

Ah, there it is. Assuming it’s about race. Actually, a lot of people would like to deport the worst British people too, but that’s not an option. It is an option to deny non British people who pose a threat though.

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u/Particular-Ad-7201 19h ago

A legal system that only applies to a certain class of people is not a legal system.

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u/Haunting_Village372 19h ago

But he’s still hear and being allowed to stay.