r/technology • u/MarvelsGrantMan136 • 7h ago

Society New Airbnb rules ban hosts from making guests wash dishes, do laundry & other checkout chores

https://www.dexerto.com/entertainment/new-airbnb-rules-ban-hosts-from-making-guests-wash-dishes-do-laundry-other-checkout-chores-3420832/
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u/Ok-Mycologist-3829 7h ago

They act like landlords instead of hospitality workers, so good. Hotels are better, people.

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u/crxsso_dssreer 7h ago

well, because that's exactly what most are, landlords skirting around local laws, especially in Europe...

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u/Heelincal 5h ago

What's funny too is like the idea was always a good one in small batches. It's nice to be able to rent out a whole house in a unique location so everyone in your party could stay in the same house.

But once people tried to convert homes into multi-tenant hotels where you do all of the work too they just immediately lost the plot. Especially since it's often more expensive than a hotel!!

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u/The_Hoopla 5h ago

Exactly. I haven't booked an AirBnB in years because it started getting fucking egregious. I had a host with rules about washing my own sheets.

What? That would be all well and good, I guess, if the cost of an AirBnB was significantly cheaper than a hotel. I'll wash my own sheets if it's $40/night.

$150-$200/night? Brother there better be a mint on my pillow when I get back.

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u/Jackski 4h ago

Yeah I used to use it a lot when it first started as it was handy as fuck. Usually cheaper than a hotel and in better locations closer to where I needed to be.

Now a hotel is cheaper and I'm not expected to wash the sheets and I don't risk being charged extra because I accidentally left a empty bottle on the table when I left.

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u/Clear_Broccoli3 4h ago

Airbnb has also tried to charge me or my friends for broken shit that was broken when we checked in. One time the lady was there to receive us, and she opened the door and walked us into the place and closed the door behind her when she left, and when we went out later in the day we realized the door handle was loose and the key jammed. When we reported it she tried to blame it on us.

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u/Sirsalley23 2h ago

Same here, it was over a crack in a hot tub liner. Which I don’t blame the owner for pursuing it, but if the cleaning team isn’t properly and extensively documenting the condition of everything between stays, then IMO you don’t have a leg to stand on to claim damages from a guest unless it’s something obvious like a window/door.

Or crazy idea, keep track of the conditioning of your own rental, and don’t just make claims when you’ve got no proof, it’s like a rental car, there should be a walk around and video/photo proof taken of the condition before/after with both parties present.

The owner actually had no proof of any timeline for the damages. So they just dropped the claim after we told them to pound sand, and prove the condition before and after our stay. My buddy that rented it was full ready to let them just lock his account and never use it again anyway.

And btw Air BnB needs to do something about people rigging cameras all over too. Got into a massive fight with an owner for unplugging interior cameras. Don’t rent your shit if you don’t expect for some potential losses or weird shit to occur.

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u/scarletwitchmoon 2h ago

In the rare event I stay in an Airbnb, I've started taking photos when I arrive/leave for this very reason.

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u/FourthLvlSpicyMeme 4h ago

Yeah same. It used to be better for me for travelling because instead of all of us paying like 5-8k for a resort stay and trying to get our rooms somewhat close to each other, was very silly when we could simply rent an Air BNB or VRBO where we were, often a beachfront or very close location.

It used to be a significant money and headache saver, now it's neither. Though maybe these new rules will make it a bit more normal, my expectation is the hosts will just triple the prices cuz they're pissy about this.

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u/pimppapy 3h ago

my expectation is the hosts will just triple the prices cuz they're pissy about this.

And if there are fools parting with their money for these new prices. . . then shit will stay the same, just everything got pricier instead.

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u/Clear_Broccoli3 4h ago

Same, I started booking hotels again a few years ago and was floored by how pleasant the experience was. I even got an upgraded room once I think cuz it was a dead season and I was nice to the night staff when I checked in. A couple places had a free "pick you up from the airport" service so I didn't have to deal with a car share or a taxi. And they were all cheaper than the available airbnb were.

I think the only time an airbnb is worth it is if 1) you NEED to be close to a specific location and there's no hotels in the area, or 2) you're going with a big group of people.

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u/PMmeyourmacncheese 3h ago

Agreed - I prefer hotels if it’s just me and my partner. But when we travel with two kiddos and my parents, airbnb is more convenient, especially having a kitchen.

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u/Francesami 2h ago

Even when I visit somewhere with a large group, I NEED a place to get away by myself and recharge my people battery. Being around the whole group 24 hours a day would totally exhaust me.

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u/Somanylyingliars 1h ago

Have been traveling a bit and staying at hotels. So mad that private equity making their way to this sector too. My favorite, Extended Stay, was bought out. Service has gone down the drain. Hotels look like shit. Roach infestations, safety system alarms going off all time because not service. They've eliminated in just 4 shorts years: shuttles to hotels, porters that would help w luggage/ bags, daily room service, pools, full breakfast, things like razors, caps eliminated while controls set for basics like soap and toilet paper. They even LIE in their reservation system telling you they still have x.y, z. You only find out when youre at location stick like chick. Sucks they're now in toilet. Avoid them like plague.

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u/Tuxhorn 4h ago

Just came home from Japan. First time staying in hotels since I was a kid. Oh my god what do you mean I just hand my room key over when I check out and all I have to do is... not forget my own stuff.

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u/scarletwitchmoon 2h ago

Also, I bet Japan has fantastic hotel service. I can only dream. I can't wait to visit someday.

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u/avitus 2h ago

I've stayed in Airbnb's in Tokyo many times over the last 8 years or so. They are all regulated and have to operate as hotels, minus some niceties that hotels provide with front desk service. You won't get hit with the weird shit you see elsewhere. The benefit is that you often can stay in some really interesting parts of town.

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u/ladyhaly 4h ago

Same. They lost me when the rules started getting ridiculous with the price not justifying it. The host would often be rude and have no concept of professional boundaries.

I had a host interrogate me bec I had two work friends visit during lunchtime to say goodbye and help me pack for flying. The host knew I and my partner were moving countries and flying the next day. Would not have been a problem if I just booked a hotel... Or even a motel. I paid hotel rate for the damn place.

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u/adwarakanath 4h ago

I have never used Airbnb. Ever. Or any streaming subscription service. Since the beginning they smelled off to me. Vindication, years later, not just Airbnb.

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u/pimppapy 3h ago

A non-refundable cleaning fee too, on top of the nightly rates no less.

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u/Higher-Frequencies 1h ago

Make sure you tack on an extra chore day to your vacation!

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u/omnivorousboot 5h ago

It's like Private Equity all over. When it was just people listing their already owned home to make a little extra cash on a cool place while it wasn't in use it was great. Once it became all these people buying properties to use specifically for AirBnB it became a disaster. Because instead of it just being some supplemental cash to a homeowner it became a revenue generating vehicle for investors.

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u/dizzy_absent0i 4h ago

Don’t forget how it added to the pricing out young people from buying homes to live in.

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u/4KVoices 4h ago

yup, I've already come to terms with just never owning any property of my own. Unless I come into an extraordinary amount of money I'll just be renting.

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u/CaptainFeather 3h ago

If my partner and I had kids we absolutely couldn't afford to have bought our house. Also helps we're in the Midwest where things are below the national average. Could never afford to live anywhere desirable though.

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u/TheGummiVenusDeMilo 3h ago

Can't afford to live in my butt fuck nowhere town because people from the city are willing to pay 1k a night for the vibe.

Like It's always been city folk retiring in rural areas with their many dollars compared to us locals, but it's gotten insanely worse when realtors are promoting houses as investment properties first and not a home.

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u/orange-yellow-pink 3h ago

Its impact is overblown. In NYC, they banned Airbnbs and hotels got more expensive due to less competition and rent continued to rise

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u/dizzy_absent0i 3h ago

NYC isn’t the only city in the world. Hundreds/thousands of small towns and cities, especially with strong tourist industries, saw housing stock for residents plummet as investors moved in to AirBNB them.

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u/N7Shep1701D 5h ago

Private Equity is going to lead the collapse of the American healthcare system. Both for you and your pets.

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u/386U0Kh24i1cx89qpFB1 2h ago

You think I can afford a pet in this economy? Lol not even falling into that money trap.

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u/Somanylyingliars 1h ago

Private Equity is going to lead (to) the collapse of theAmerican healthcare system. Both for you and your pets. There, fixed that for you.

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u/Black_Moons 4h ago

Ah yes, another industry ruined by Rent Seeking Behavior, where people with money demand more money just because they have money and you don't.

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u/16semesters 4h ago

The problem is when Airbnb stopped making space usage more efficient and started making it less efficient.

When it started, renting a spare bedroom, or someone's lake house on a weekend they aren't using it, is a great idea. This takes space that would otherwise be vacant and puts it to good use.

The second someone however buys a property just to Airbnb it, the entire thing is flipped. Now we have what should be someones home, is instead a bizarre barely legal pseudo-hotel with limited protections for the consumer.

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u/nebula_masterpiece 4h ago

Exactly this - the initial pitch was to capture unused spare bedrooms, not to build and buy homes just to use as hotel replacements

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u/TopVolume6860 1h ago

The initial pitch was just a lie to get millennials to try it out. The goal was always to lose money and undercut hotels until hotels went out of business then jack prices way up and cut costs (enshittify the service) with their new duopoly status like uber/lyft did to cabs only they found out hotels are way more resilient than cab companies were and it backfired on them

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u/Sudden-Purchase-8371 57m ago

The other difference is that the two industries, hotel and taxi, taxi is by far the worst of the two. Taxi cabs had way more regulatory capture that led to terrible service. I hate Uber/Lyft for their labor practices and fuck the gig economy but the Taxi companies had it fucking coming in spades.

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u/Schonke 2h ago

The second someone however buys a property just to Airbnb it, the entire thing is flipped. Now we have what should be someones home, is instead a bizarre barely legal pseudo-hotel with limited protections for the consumer.

If we want to have owning a house as a viable dream for the middle class, there need to be some serious rethinking of property taxes.

For example: First residential property you own is barely taxed at all, mainly just the capital gains tax once it's sold. That way no one should be forced to sell cause their house increased greatly in value but their retirement income is meager.

Second residential property (like you buy a small summer cabin) gets taxed at a leisure house rate which, in addition to capital gains tax when sold, also includes a yearly tax to the local governmental bodies for the increased load during high season and diminished tax base during off-season. This might mean some have to eventually sell cause they can't afford it any more, but since it's just the second property no one should be forced to move or become homeless.

Once you get a third residential property, then all your residential properties get taxed as if you're a landlord and they're your way of making income. This way you can't play any creative tax games by deciding which property is main, second and third and so on. Then you have to choose between keeping that tax rate or fold some of the properties into the ownership of a corporation you start.

And all corporate ownership of residential properties should be taxed as if they're owning to rent and profit off it.

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u/masterlich 4h ago

I used to Airbnb a room in my house. It was BARGAIN BASEMENT cheap. Like, I think I put it up for $25 a night.

I stopped bothering when I would get entitled guests who were offended at the smallest things. Brother, you're paying $25 a night. If you wanted the Taj Mahal, you should have paid more.

I imagine that's the same thing that happened to all the other small time hosts. It wasn't worth the hassle for the tiny amount of money you get. So now we're all we're left with are the professionals renting out for more than hotels.

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u/Somanylyingliars 1h ago

You might consider VRBO which has a more down to earth crowd.

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u/Somanylyingliars 1h ago

AirBNB was start of market disruptors. Come in w cutesy idea, skirt local laws, decimate competition. A model repeated over and over. A model w little regulation leading to multiple deaths all over US. We need regulations over all these disruptors and have them pay into UBI plus more

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u/WhoPoopedMyPants420 4h ago

The issue is that vacation rentals have been around for a long time. That wasn't the innovation, AirBnB just did to vacation rentals what Uber did to cabs

Finding a way to scale that business into a volume-driven, slop-filled feeding frenzy was the idea

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u/DiamondsInHerButt 4h ago

This is just Silicon Valley in a nutshell. Take an existing business sector that's existed normally for decades and "disrupt" it via app that basically only offers a search engine that tends to get intentionally worse over time while offering no customer support because the whole point of it is just taking their piece of the pie.

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u/Mediocre-Writer6635 3h ago

Eh, they provided better services than stagnant, shitty industries that thought they had customers by the short hairs. Good for them. People use uber over taxis because taxis suck.

They were often filthy, constantly trying to scam you, they weren't available in some areas, of course no app or other modern basic conveniences. Talk about customer service? what customer service did taxis have?

Uber is just enshittifying same way but that just means it is not great. It's still better than taxis. Otherwise people would just use taxis.

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u/rufud 3h ago

I think you are glossing over the enshittification of uber/lyft. They are entirely the same as other cab companies. Cab companies have had to adapt to the new technology but remember how uber was way cheaper and you didn’t have to tip? Not anymore. It also eviscerated the zipcar industry into those crappy scooters/bikes you can rent. It was originally envisioned as what if two people going to the same place just happen to ride share? Then, just like air bnb, the drivers just wanted be like cab drivers but for the gig economy. We swapped out a bunch of crappy things about the cab industry for a different set of crappy things.

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u/Own_Back_2038 1h ago

You definitely don’t have to tip an uber.

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u/Geminii27 1h ago

Encourage its use while providing absolutely no accountability or adherence to actual laws, then scoop up the profits of other people's crimes and claim no knowledge of said crimes.

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u/wimpymist 3h ago

The original pitch of Airbnb was awesome. Paying someone $100 to sleep in their spare bedroom while traveling when all you needed was a place to sleep was awesome.

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u/USA_A-OK 5h ago edited 1h ago

Multi tenant hotels with none of the regulations

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u/MilkChocolate21 4h ago

I used some private rentals long before Airbnb and agree. I once met a woman who facilitated holiday rentals on a small scale, and she visied them all before promoting them. I personally used a simple European holiday rental site. However no one was trying to get rich or engage in housing arbitrage. I rented from a woman who was herself spending several months in the US. Many listings were definitely temporary and very seasonal. On that small scale, the neighbors knew strangers were coming and were very nice too.

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u/powercow 4h ago

It's also one of the big reasons rent went up so much. It takes supply off the market and when your landlord sees they can make more renting your place by week, they are going to want to raise rent.

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u/DisplayThick4882 3h ago

Yeah. We came from a 5 star hotel for €150 a night and landed in Madrid in what seemed to be an old big apartment near stadium converted into many small apartments and shared kitchen.

None if this was advertised clearly on shared apartment. Everything was Ikea and tiniest bathroom ever and hard small bed. Like probably 10sqm room. Cost 189 euros per night. There was no football or anything and city was dead as winter and cold. Apartment was super noisy and paper thin walls and as everyone essentially enters in from only apartment door it gets noisy.

I gave 1 star review on Booking.com with fair reasons on size, price and false advertising and as I left and owner messaged me to complain saying its bad for them and will ruin them. They had like 4.5 stars from thousands others. Reviews were good but no mentions of small size or bad quality. I assume due to football fans wanting close stay during games.

Found it baffling like he thought it was good value. If it was advertised accurately would have booked hotel instead for cheaper.

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u/MyneIsBestGirl 1h ago

Same business model as Uber, start out the services very cheap and accessible with investor capital, and once people get hooked to the idea (and you kill out a few good competitors), then you jack down the quality and jack up the price.

Unfortunately for AirBNB, their service was too involved to get away long, especially since hotels were barley displaced. It's as easy as ever to just ignore them compared to airports where taxis can still be way overpriced or unaccomodated.

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u/FreshChocolateCookie 5h ago

I travelled for the first time in an air b n b. I have serious OCD and would take literally everything including my bed with me. That’s incredibly weird to do in a hotel.

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u/FauxReal 4h ago

I stayed at a place in New Orleans like that, large single story house with 6 rooms all rented out via ABnB.

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u/spentchicken 4h ago

Exactly. Early few years of air bnb was amazing. The money you saved and the neat places you could find was great. Then it got infested with the type of people you described and it was ruined

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u/Oboro-kun 4h ago

Arent more of this services and apps away to just skip throught laws and taxes?

"No i am not a taxi, I offer rides on Uber!"

"No i am not a landlord I just rent my place throught Air BnB!"

Like even this services ride on it. Uber fought a lot to not make its user employee because it would bankrupt them.

While I am all for competency and maybe having some less restriction in some stuff like Taxis, its seems just a way to skip Taxes and draw the community dry.

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u/DrAstralis 4h ago

in my city they loved buying up entire floors of new apartment buildings (during a housing crisis no less) to then run them like a hotel, but because the laws hadn't caught up they did this to avoid paying the taxes entities like hotels need to pay that supports the advertisements and programs that being locals / tourists into the city.

They were of course also douches to all the actual residents who live there but I feel that goes without saying at this point.

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u/Kriegerian 7h ago

Well yeah, Airbnb is an unregulated hotel chain allowed to lie about what it is because it uses An App.

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u/crxsso_dssreer 7h ago edited 7h ago

that's the american "discrupt" model:

Uber, illegal taxis: "but we're just an app".

Airbnb, illegal hotels: "but we're just an app".

That's how they circumvente regulations... and of course it's allowed because they bribe lobby politicians and it's still marginally useful since somehow cheaper than the legal offering...

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u/Lincolns_Revenge 7h ago

No need to cross out "bribe" at this point after the Supreme Court's Snyder decision. Assume cash gifts are being given to politicians at the federal level because they are now legal without an overt quid pro quo before the fact. And that money doesn't have to go to their political campaign coffers like it does with lobbying, they can buy a Ferrari with it or whatever they want.

Like the ruling on presidential immunity, it's just fucking baffling and indefensible.

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u/Kriegerian 7h ago

John Roberts is the worst chief Justice since Roger Taney and in the end he might be even worse. He’s openly doing everything he can to empower a pedophile fascist oligarchy, since that’s what he and his fellow Klan members were put there to do.

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u/Corbin_Dallas666 5h ago

Sure but he is having his cake and eating it too, they face no real consequences

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u/Kriegerian 5h ago

I know. That’s why, absent you can’t say that on Reddit what we do is publicly destroy his legacy of being anything other than a cheap partisan hack and fascist hired goon. He so obviously and so desperately wants to be seen as the face of wise and impartial justice, so we punch him in the place where it obviously hurts the most and isn’t illegal: his legacy and his reputation.

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u/MoonBatsRule 5h ago

It's really quite sick. Uber could say "hey, politician, I am Uber. Here is a thousand dollar donation because you are so great. If you continue to be great, I have an additional million dollars that I could donate. By the way, here is some legislation that I would like passed."

Then, once the legislation is passed:

"Hi politician, I really think you were great, as a show of my appreciation here is a million dollars. I think we have a nice relationship, I may come back to you for help in the future".

As long as there is no explicit quid pro quo, this is 100% legal.

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u/Perryn 5h ago

Quid pro quo - "Should have hid it better."

Quid post quo - "A perfectly fine and valid way to buy a politician."

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u/IndyDude11 7h ago

Not hard to understand the somehow when you understand the taxes that are being evaded by the distinction.

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u/crxsso_dssreer 7h ago

I also feared I was being watched or video recorded. Never again.

You are absolutely right, I forgot that, taxes, professional insurance, safety regulations...

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u/Chataboutgames 4h ago

Honestly? Good. It's not like groups like Uber are unique in their ability to lean on politicians. Taxi's would fight like Hell to keep their standards of service shitty and to be protected from competition.

It's why people embraced Uber so enthusiastically, because in most areas taxis provided absolute shit service.

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u/Rapierre 4h ago

Except that is mostly just America. Most other countries simply made it so that Taxi drivers also get Uber requests. So you have a chance of getting some random dude's car or a taxicab

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u/licuala 3h ago

Uber broke a gridlock where taxi services did not have healthy competition (nor sufficient presence in a lot of areas or at certain times of day) due to what has been described as a cartel, maintaining high prices and a poor standard of service. So, this criticism,

lobby politicians

Is more strongly evident for conventional taxi businesses over decades than it is for Uber. While Uber and Lyft have undeniable problems, I think on the whole, we're better off for having them. A cheap and reliable ride-hailing service reduces cases of impaired driving, increases economic activity, improves mobility for those who can't or won't drive, reduces the demand for parking... there are a lot of positive externalities.

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u/K_Linkmaster 5h ago

The rules can apply to these companies in a simple ruling stating: the same rules apply. They have applied the whole time until someone ruled they didn't.

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u/starm4nn 4h ago

Uber, illegal taxis: "but we're just an app".

Comparing Uber to Taxis doesn't make a whole lot of sense. The whole reason Taxis were regulated the way they were is because when idle they'd block the road.

Uber's model was always closer to the Private Car model.

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u/16semesters 4h ago

Don't forget DoorDash, Instacart, Etc.

Delivery drivers employed by a restaurant get guaranteed wages, guaranteed reimbursement for wear/tear on car and gas, and auto insurance provided by the employer. You were a W2

With Doordash now delivery drivers get literally none of that. So even if you're making 25$+ an hour DoorDashing, you're still doing way worse than delivery drivers used to do.

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u/brokoli 1h ago

Fck monopolistic cab licensing model though

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u/Kriegerian 7h ago

Yeah, Doctorow explained it in the book, but you can also see it with basically every gig economy app.

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u/WackyHumanSlop 4h ago

If you use Uber, you are objectively a bad person

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u/Ok-Mycologist-3829 7h ago

Airbnb isn’t a hotel chain. It is a bougie landlord business.

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u/OldSchoolSpyMain 5h ago

Local governments hate this one Jedi mind trick:

[local government] "If you are a hotel chain, then you must abide by local hotel/hospitality laws."

[AirBNB] "We aren't a hotel. We are like property managers."

[local government] "If you are property managers, then you must abide by local property management laws."

[AirBNB] "We aren't property management. We are like a hotel."

[local government] "😵‍💫 Carry on."

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u/Numeno230n 3h ago

Lets be clear - they've spent a LOT of money in politics carving out a little niche for their business model. Same thing as Uber, Doordash, etc. All of these gig economies rely on regulators and the CFPB basically not doing their jobs.

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u/Kriegerian 3h ago

Well yeah, that’s one of the reasons why Trump and his fellow business fascists have tried to kill the CFPB and the concept of government regulation.

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u/Somanylyingliars 1h ago

They're allowed to do what they do because the have extremely effective lobbyist. We need to remove those parasite from society.

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u/ahundreddots 5h ago

I don't understand why Americans haven't migrated to booking-dot-com. You typically pay less for the same places you'll find on AirBnB, the prices are clearly stated, and the hosts can't fuck with you because there's no system for rating the guests and they can't come after you with additional charges. I've had very few bad experiences with it over the past ten years that AirBnB has been utter shit.

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u/el_diego 7h ago

But I love paying a cleaning fee AND being forced to clean the place myself.

Yeah, nah. Hotels are 1000x better than Airbnb. Even with these new rules in place, I'd rather deal with professional hospitality workers not some Karen who leaves a passive aggressive note about using the shower squeegee so her glass doesn't get spots.

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u/Ok-Mycologist-3829 7h ago

Landlords should be renting these out as actual homes, not for hotel stays. So many reasons to hate Airbnb.

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u/Lexi_Banner 6h ago

No, no. These are homes that should be on the market for people to buy and live in. A healthy rental market is fine, but these people are taking great, single-family homes out of the market for first time buyers, and fucking up the entire market.

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u/Ok-Mycologist-3829 6h ago

Ohhhh I am totally on board with that. More homeownership please.

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u/PiccoloAwkward465 3h ago

It's part of the K-shaped economy. Some people absolutely can and do buy a house, live in it, then upgrade to another house. But keep the first one and rent it out. Sometimes they'll buy more.

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u/WackyHumanSlop 4h ago

Single family homes should not be allowed to exist.

Communal habitation pods are the future

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u/Lexi_Banner 4h ago

You do you, boo, but not everyone wants that.

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u/Somanylyingliars 1h ago

We had those back in my days of 50s-70ish. Cities slowly eliminated them. See Barbizon Hotel in NYC as an example. YMCA and YWCA we're another example. Those need to make come backs.

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u/justheretocomment333 6h ago

How many airbnbs do you suspect are in areas where first-time home buyers are looking? I suspect very few. The vast majority are in vacation areas. Pick a random Boston suburb and see how many listings there are. Guessing maybe a few dozen which just doesn't matter to the overall housing market.

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u/Lexi_Banner 5h ago

The point is that the more single family housing that gets snapped up for rentals and AirBnB purposes means that the remaining housing on the market gets pushed up in price (artificially), and often pushes young families and first-time buyers out.

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u/justheretocomment333 5h ago

Point is, it's a drop in the bucket outside of tourist zones which already had a ton of houses used as short-term rentals.

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u/Lexi_Banner 4h ago

Since you seem to have missed half the context of my post, you might as well read the post I just made to someone else who missed half the context:

https://old.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/1xbt833/new_airbnb_rules_ban_hosts_from_making_guests/19rg8qnxip9qb/

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u/Chataboutgames 4h ago

This feels like such a weird place to focus. You want a more housing supply? Build more houses. Outlawing Air BnB isn't going to do shit.

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u/Lexi_Banner 4h ago

Have you not followed this conversation? Let's review, shall we?

Landlords should be renting these out as actual homes

This is the post I replied to. Emphasis mine. Please note that I did not directly object to AirBnB use (though I do also object to that use as well). I said:

These are homes that should be on the market for people to buy and live in.

I objected to the LANDLORDS and RENTING portion. Because the vast majority of these landlords are not Jim and Judy the Friendly Family who have a single second home to rent out. They are mega corps (like Blackstone), and they snap up as many single family dwellings in a marketplace as they can, then rent them at crazy rates. Specifically homes that appeal to young and/or first time buyers - 2bdrm starter homes.

This PLUS the AirBnB assholes means that a not-insignificant amount of people are unable to buy their first house because they are either priced out, or there just isn't any appropriate inventory for them to buy.

It's not just about AirBnB, it's about all of the assholes ruining the market for young and/or first time buyers. Yes, we need a healthy rental market, but we are currently at a point where the market is trapping people in rentals and not allowing more families to buy. Corporations should be restricted from single home purchases entirely (including condos and townhomes!), and AirBnB assholes should be restricted to how many properties they can purchase as well (including condos and townhomes as well!). That would correct this massive imbalance of renters vs. owners and allow a lot more people to get a foot on the ladder.

Does this make my objections clearer? Are you able to follow the whole conversation now?

9

u/SiempreBrujaSuerte 5h ago

You realize people live in the cities that other people go on vacation to right? All those people working in restaurants and hotels at your vacation destination live there, and are getting priced out of where they are from because Airbnb in many locations. That is the case where I am from, even though they are illegal there.

-7

u/justheretocomment333 5h ago

Yeah, but those jobs dont exist without people coming and staying in their towns.

6

u/SiempreBrujaSuerte 5h ago

So they can stay in the hotel and leave us houses to rent for affordable prices....

-1

u/justheretocomment333 5h ago

There is more demand than the hotels can handle. Hence the market for short-term rentals in these places.

2

u/SiempreBrujaSuerte 4h ago

Not the case where I am from, there are lots of small motels, and short term rentals are illegal, so are air bnb, if people don't think the motels we have are good enough they should go elsewhere. The motels are sometimes empty when illegal airbnbs are still existing.

1

u/MoonBatsRule 5h ago

It's funny how people seem to believe that prior to AirBnB, there was no such thing as a "vacation rental" in a vacation area, and that if AirBnB didn't exist, they would be able to buy a house cheap in a desirable vacation area near the beach or the ski slopes. At which point they would either leave it unoccupied most of the time, or would move there full-time and then bitch about how there are no good jobs.

10

u/el_diego 5h ago

Can you not see how services like Airbnb massively accelerated that into something unsustainable?

Instead of rich people leaving some places unattended, due to ease of access, we now have people buying up homes for the specific purpose of treating them as short stay.

0

u/MoonBatsRule 1h ago

People have owned short-stay properties for many, many, many decades. Probably started 100 years ago when the automobile got popular.

My family has vacationed in a vacation area for 60 years. At first, they started in a motel. Then they rented a place they heard of from the friend of a friend. Then a friend of theirs bought a place and they rented from them for a long time. When I got old enough, I started by staying with them. Then I drove around there and got phone numbers from lawn and window "vacation for rent" signs. Then I used realtor websites - but the trick is that you had to know the realtor. Then about 30 years ago (!) a website started that allowed people to list their properties for weekly rentals.

AirBnB simply allowed broke weekly rentals into pieces - you could rent for a weekend (pay more) and someone else could rent for the rest of the week (cheaper).

At the same time it became easier to manage those properties. 60 years ago you had to hire a property manager to visit the property in the offseason to check on it, so that meant higher rents. But then alarm companies came along, and then cameras and real-time sensor monitoring. It is also easier to find people to service your property - instead of going to the local library to find a phone book from that area, you can look for landscaping companies on the internet.

3

u/justheretocomment333 5h ago

Yeah, Summit Count, Colorado real estate has been fucked since like the early 90s.

4

u/Zebidee 5h ago

Airbnb has destroyed the housing market everywhere it's gone.

People love to blame immigrants, but short term rental vacuuming up supply is the reason you can't afford to buy in your own city.

1

u/DiabolicallyRandom 2h ago

I think there are exceptions but those are not new. There are obvious vacation homes in places that people wouldn't live year round anyways. Those sorts of rentals existed long before airbnb and would continue to exist if airbnb disappeared tonight.

The problem with airbnb is that it enabled any. Random asshole to start renting shit. It was cool at first when it was literally just someone renting their house out on the cheap while not home.

But then the professional companies started getting involved and it turned to shit completely.

I prefer hotels, but some destinations simply do not have them. I will typically opt for other platforms like VRBO, as renters there tend to be less vulture and more like the old school "find a rental via a travel agent".

Anyways, this crackdown is good, period. If hosts quit hosting, they should never have been renting their house to begin with.

9

u/Chapeaux 5h ago

Hotels are the way to go since Airbnbs are always a struggle and are also a problem for the locals trying to buy homes.

2

u/forgot_my_useragain 4h ago

Due to a house fire in July I've been living in a 3-star extended stay hotel for the last 3 months. It's pretty nice tbh. The room is like a little studio apartment, there's all the typical hotel stuff like a spa and workout room, plus free laundry machines and free breakfast and dinners. Plus all the staff is super nice and helpful. One if them even helped me jump my car battery with the courtesy shuttle lol. Ain't no AirBnB host doing that.

I looked for a long term AirBnB after first getting into the hotel thinking it'd be cheaper (for my insurance) and a bit more private. People in my city are out of their minds with the prices and requirements, and the few of them that I emailed back never responded. Honestly, I'm glad they didn't. With the exception of 2 or 3 loud ass people staying in the room next to me, being here has been a very positive experience, as much as being displaced from your home for 3 months can be.

1

u/Lexi_Banner 3h ago

My garage was burned down a decade ago (arson), and it was a nightmare to get replaced with insurance. I hope your home replacement is going much smoother, because what a nightmare!

1

u/Fafoah 5h ago

Airbnb definitely has value when you’re trying to fit 20 people in a house to get shit-faced and cook your own food before like, a music festival or for a bachelor party

Problem is greedy Airbnb owners aren’t holding up their end of the bargain by doing all the extra stuff.

Ive had plenty of good experiences where im basically dealing with a robot and as long as we dont do any property damage or get any noise complaints then everythings chill. All the horror stories definitely had me reconsider for a few recent trips though. Also how they can basically cancel on you for no reason with zero consequences

1

u/Chataboutgames 4h ago

I don't think anyone should stay in an Air BnB because it's categorically better than a hote, you stay in an Air BnB because it has a better location or better fits what you're trying to do (like renting a big house for a 14 person family trip.)

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u/[deleted] 6h ago

[deleted]

7

u/el_diego 6h ago

I got to stay in a lovely private home on a beach and didn’t have to hear people clomping around and kids screaming at 6am

That's nice for you. We thought the same based on the pictures and house description, but turns out it was a shared home with a neighbour upstairs that had clompy children at 6am. And the place wasn't very clean and had heaps of broken things. Didn't stop the owner from sending heaps of passive aggressive pre entry messages

1

u/swarmofbeees 5h ago

I mean that sucks but that’s what the reviews are for? I only stay in places with clear feedback.

8

u/f8Negative 7h ago

They made tv shows about how important their self inflated bs was

3

u/Ozz87 6h ago

I want a full kitchen though

3

u/motorboat_mcgee 6h ago

Yeah, at first airbnb was cool, because you got unique places for relatively cheap, and everything requested of the guest was reasonable.

Now it's people buying up homes, charging a giant fee, giving a chore list, AND cleaning fee, while providing the bare minimum comforts

I'm back to hotels and happy with it, fuck all these hosts

23

u/obsidianop 6h ago

They're different.

There's certain needs an Airbnb can meet that a hotel can't:

(1) Unique experience/location - e.g. like in rural areas or small town that doesn't have hotels

(2) Unique neighborhood: in some cities all the hotels are by the airport or downtown but you want to stay in a particular neighborhood where you can walk to things

(3) Privacy: traveling with a friend who you don't want to hear snore all night

So I think there's a place. But they're a bad direct substitute for needs already met by hotels.

1

u/Chesey_ 3h ago

Agreed. They have a place still, it's just the exploitative ones that ruin it. A good host and a good air BnB I would take over a hotel still especially for like group travel. Another benefit is often you can ask the host to stay later than checkout and they are cool with it, which is something I've never had with a hotel (without paying)

-11

u/Ok-Mycologist-3829 6h ago

I grew up in a rural area. No one is going there without knowing someone first to stay with. Airbnbs have had secret cameras installed by the owners, so I don’t buy that privacy line. As for convenience, I’m sorry, but you’re not going to your new dream home with excellent access to things. There are always tradeoffs and balances in travel. Deal with it.

28

u/august260 6h ago

Have you considered that the rural area you grew up in is not reflective of all rural areas

-13

u/Ok-Mycologist-3829 6h ago

Rural areas are extremely diverse. The person above me replied with one assumption. I replied with another because appealing to rural areas to make a vague point is a bugbear of mine.

8

u/FingerFar7529 6h ago

Why wouldn't someone want stay in a cabin in the woods or on a lake without knowing someone there first. That's just bogus.

Hotels have had secret cameras too. You know that what they meant by privacy was having separate rooms in a house.

Having a closable door to put kids to bed early while still having a shared living space for the adults is a pretty big upgrade over the standard hotel experience.

And then you are arguing against yourself with the trade off line... You seem to be the one unable to deal with the trade offs for some of the advantages of AirBnbs.

2

u/JoshuaTheFox 5h ago

Airbnbs are considered short term rentals. So technically they are landlords

2

u/Niku-Man 5h ago

Obviously each has their place. An airbnb type rental is great for large groups, or if you want a unique experience, or if you want to stay somewhere where there aren't many hotels to choose from. Hotels are great when you're by yourself or with a partner, or staying in a location with lots of options. Neither one is universally better.

26

u/OutsiderWalksAmongUs 7h ago

Honestly, not always. If I'm somewhere longer than a couple of days I prefer to be able to cook for myself and have a decent'ish living room.

I also don't mind doing the dishes, vacuum a bit and leave the place in a decent state. Doing laundry or a deep clean wouldd definitely go too far though.

74

u/loyal_achades 7h ago

There are hotels that give you a small kitchen for that sort of use case (Hyatt House, for example). That said, those are often limited and not super nice.

There are use cases for AirBnB over hotels, but it’s hard to argue against the idea that it metastasized into something gross and unstable trying to more directly compete with traditional hotels.

5

u/OutsiderWalksAmongUs 7h ago

In Europe it used to be mostly hostels where you have access to a kitchen.

But yeah, I agree with you that Airbnb is far from ideal these days.

4

u/PartyPorpoise 7h ago

I wish hostels were more common in the US. Nice and cheap way to travel.

3

u/goldenopal42 6h ago

Any decent sized city has extremely nice extended stay hotels. The kitchens are usually pretty compact (unless you have a generous budget) but the living rooms are generally quite large. Many also have in-house buffets and other amenities that accommodate larger groups.

The only “issue” is they can be a bit difficult to find online. I think they tend to put little to no advertising budget towards enticing “the general public” and instead focus on business travelers and wealthy families. So the less-nice ones overwhelm the search engines and booking sites.

3

u/CaptainAsshat 5h ago

I have to travel for work so I tend to resent every second spent in a hotel that wasn't necessary. Hotels also often have more noise, lights, and uncomfortable beds in my experience.

AirBnB, with all its failings, still feels like a house. Also, people tend to not build nice hotels in the middle of nowhere, but you can still find an AirBnb mountain lodge.

But the AirBnB price is just dumb nowadays, so I'm often choosing a hotel.

1

u/kbotc 1h ago

Yea, it’s not like renting mountain lodges was unheard of back in the day, you just had to go through a travel agent who would call the local agent who would book it all for a 15% markup each step of the way. AirBnB killed that market and made it much more apparent. There’s also 100 million more people wanting to take vacations in the US since 1980, so all these mountain and seaside resorts they built in that timeframe are all way too small for demand.

2

u/FingerFar7529 6h ago

And even then the extended stay's come with some downsides. Like being in cheaper districts away from events or attractions. Or having multi-room situation for shared family gatherings or kids being uneconomical.

But that's really what this is all about is trade offs. AirBnbs need to be required to not externalize costs both on the community and on guests. So with reasonable ordinances, zoning, and rule restrictions then people can pay for those trade offs.

Where extended stays are almost always more economical with the economy of scale.

0

u/goldenopal42 5h ago

I agree there’s always trade-offs. But it’s simply not accurate that the locations are not central in large cities. Corporate travelers and wealthy families like to stay downtown close to their corporate offices and all the attractions. It’s just not so easy to find them without being tapped into those circles.

1

u/FingerFar7529 5h ago

I didn't say only large cities. I said by events or attractions.

A couple years ago I visited a family friend in the north side of Green Bay. For which the zoo/adventure park in Suamico was the main attraction for the kids.

An AirBnb in the north burbs a few minutes from the family friend and the park had three rooms and cost less than extended stays that were more than 20 minutes away either in the former industrial park by the stadium or by the airport.

22

u/Sptsjunkie 7h ago edited 6h ago

Yeah, I think the thing is people tend to take extreme stances here. I think the real truth is that for a quick minute Airbnb’s were trying to compete with hotels but we are slowly reaching a stasis at least for the moment where they both have different roles.

If you’re going on a trip where you want to really be out and eating in the city or you are going to be spending a lot of time with family or are there for work, then hotels are pretty dominant. They offer exactly what you need and are way more flexible on things like holding your luggage or giving you an early or late check out.

However, if you are going on a big group trip or want to be able to really cook for yourself or sometimes if you’re a family with kids and you want a nice common space, then there are some very good use cases where Airbnb is great.

My husband and I travel a decent amount and when it’s just the two of us, we’re basically always staying in a hotel. But it does feel like a couple of times a year, we go on a bigger trip with family or a group of friends. And Airbnb is absolutely the way to go. Everyone gets their own room, but we get common space and often a backyard and depending on where we are staying something like a pool, hot tub, or firepit.

6

u/ImReallyFuckingHigh 7h ago

Yea when I’m on the road for months at a time having an actual kitchen is a game changer vs a Macgyver kitchen set up in a hotel. Also in certain areas the monthly rate for a bnb is a lot cheaper than the monthly rate at a hotel

17

u/Educator1337 7h ago

Why would you clean when you are paying to have it cleaned on your departure? Even minor cleaning should be covered in the fee.

Hint: You are cleaning for the next person while your “host” is pocketing the money. Don’t be part of the problem. Let your fee cover the cleaning.

3

u/Rando-namo 6h ago

I've been in Airbnb's that were so obviously NOT cleaned properly and they still take the fee as expect you to clean.

-3

u/randomdancingpants 6h ago

Not everyone wants to live in filth bro.

-1

u/Educator1337 6h ago

How sloppy are you? My living space doesn’t need much “cleaning”. Especially to the point of it being “filthy”.

-1

u/[deleted] 6h ago

[deleted]

1

u/Educator1337 6h ago edited 6h ago

I refuse to use Airbnb or the likes because of this specific reason and similar policies.

Let my $200 deposit cover that $150 - $200 maid charge. If I am paying a day rate to stay, why should my cleaning fee be profit for the “host” as well?

I guess some people don’t mind pissing money away unnecessarily.

Do you cook your own food or clean the table off when you go to a restaurant?

6

u/codyzon2 7h ago

In the US at least a lot of hotels have suites that are like small apartments, now that I have kids that's mostly what my wife and I book. Full kitchen with full size fridge, laundry machines, usually a couple of bedrooms and the living room, dining room table. Generally they are not outrageously priced. And the best part is I get to check out and not worry.

2

u/svtguy88 6h ago

Upvote for a reasonable take. Hotels have their place, but I absolutely prefer having a kitchen, dedicated bedrooms, a common area, etc. when booking a long trip or with a large group.

I get that there are bad hosts out there, but the blanket "Airbnb bad" attitude on Reddit is weird to me.

1

u/fleshie 7h ago

Then stay at a homewood suites?

5

u/OutsiderWalksAmongUs 7h ago

It's been a while since I did a longer city trip, pre-covid at least, but that wasn't really much of a thing in Europe.

1

u/goldenopal42 6h ago

If you’ve never tried an extended stay hotel, I recommend considering it.

The chores never bothered me that much. But the risk of being cancelled on, or not being able enter the place on arrival, or getting kicked out and/or fined at the host’s whim is very real. I’ve personally been lucky that the worst experience we’ve had was the plumbing going out and not getting fixed - literally no water. Shit happens, I get it.

But I know enough people (irl) that were literally unable to enter their place for hours or even a full night because the host didn’t have their shit together enough that the guests could open the door. And/or contact the host over legit issues - like being able to enter! 99% of the time, I’d rather pay more for the peace of mind. Plus there’s usually other perks that come with it.

-2

u/Ok-Mycologist-3829 7h ago

Yes, always.

4

u/OutsiderWalksAmongUs 7h ago

To each their own.

2

u/shidderbean 4h ago

Hotels kind of suck though, I wouldn't want a hotel to be my base of operations for 3-4 weeks in Amsterdam but I'd love a nice little apartment that feels homey for instance.

1

u/SagittaryX 5h ago

Maybe in the US, I've had no problem with AirBnBs in Europe or New Zealand.

1

u/uktexan 5h ago

Ex-host here (for a reason)

I was never one of those chores people, outside of asking folks to take out trash and load the dishwasher.

So I don’t condone or support folks who literally ask guests to do everything + paint the fence, but the reasons are twofold:

- cheaper turn. If your cleaning crew spends more time cleaning, it leads to higher costs. Guess where those costs end up

- turns are stressful as it is. We have 4 hours to get a property ready before next checkin, and unless you have 10 rentals and have your own on-staff cleaning crew, you’re reliant on folks turning up on time when they have other properties to clean over the same time period.

Anyway, before downvoting me to hell bear in mind I don’t stay in Airbnb properties and only stay in hotels now for a reason. Airbnb are clueless and are driving super hosts out of the game unless their property deserves their own spread in Dwell magazine. Fuck them.

1

u/ipreferanothername 4h ago

Sometimes hotels are better.

I just spent a week at the beach, for the dollars, I got way way more in an Airbnb condo than I was going to in a hotel.

It's not like Airbnb started the housing rental business but it's definitely brought a bunch of headaches to it

1

u/Starfire013 3h ago

There’s also actual BnBs. You get the professional service you’d expect from a hotel along with a much more personalised and personal experience.

1

u/Panda_hat 3h ago

Theres an entire industry within it dedicated to taking out residential lets and then aggressively airbnb'ing them illegally, pretending to be the landlord. It's pretty wild.

1

u/aussiegreenie 2h ago

And often cheaper. Many years ago, Airbnb was good and cheap. Now it is very expensive and less convenient than a hotel room.

1

u/scarletwitchmoon 2h ago

We are not their guests, we are indentured servants to these Airbnb landlords.

1

u/XanmanK 2h ago

Rent a hotel then with just a bed and a tv. No kitchen, no deck, no yard.

1

u/NSASpyVan 1h ago

They're charging cleaning fees and pocketing it as profit. They're mad they can't do that any more.

1

u/Friendly_Molasses532 1h ago

And cheaper! I stoped going to airbnbs for the most part unless we have a lot of people in one group

1

u/nofxjmf 58m ago

My friends and wife always like booking airbnb's even when we have bad experiences with them. I always prefer a hotel because I feel airbnb is just amateur hour and rather have real service hotels offer. The prices don't even seem competitive to hotels anymore. I don't get it

2

u/MustardEnema007 6h ago

Hotels are extremely expensive here in canada

1

u/Ok-Mycologist-3829 6h ago

That is a separate issue worth discussing, but not relevant to the Airbnb question.

1

u/Immediate_Earth_6858 5h ago

I can still get better, cheaper, good location airbnbs

Plus, a kitchen is almost mandatory for vacations for me

1

u/Chataboutgames 4h ago

They do different things. Don't expect one to do everything the other one does.

3

u/Ok-Mycologist-3829 4h ago

Airbnb is a landlord operation and should be viewed as such. Landlords and hotels have very different objectives.

0

u/TeaBurntMyTongue 5h ago

Yeah it's worse than a landlord, because in a normal situation the tenant has their own things to make their home, in an airbnb you don't have that control even. Worst of both worlds

0

u/Reggaeton_Historian 5h ago

Hotels are better, people.

I don't get AirBNB points either for staying in these people shitty overpriced locations.

0

u/Rhodie114 4h ago

It’s not even that. They act like hosts with houseguests. My landlord doesn’t have micromanaging ass rules like what cookware I’m allowed to use, or when I have to laundry.

This attitude is all over everything they say. They’ll talk about how your a guest in their home etc. etc. And they act like we should be really grateful for them putting us up, like a real guest would be. But real guests aren’t paying hundreds to thousands of dollars for their stay.

They want to be paid like business owners, but shown gratitude like friends and family.

2

u/Ok-Mycologist-3829 4h ago

your landlord

0

u/RetPala 3h ago

"I was lucky in life, and now want to simply earn income passively while I tend to my passions. How could this happen to me?"