r/interestingasfuck • u/lonewolff321 • 12h ago

An online poker bot farm where dozens of synced laptops collude at the same table against real players

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u/AngryT-Rex 10h ago

That depends a lot on what the bot does.

Just 1 bot with perfect probability calculations? Possibly a small edge.

Several bots at the same table that know eachothers cards? Those bots know the probabilities WAY better than their victims (bot 1 has 2 aces and knows that no other bot has any aces, so it knows that there is a really good chance of a 3rd ace) and can have a pretty big edge.

Several bots that know eachothers cards AND are collaborating AND the humans dont even know which players are bots on a team versus independant players? The bots can mutually agree in secret which of their teams hands to fold, which ones to play, then use one that plans to fold to raise so that the one with the best hand only has to match and the human doesn't even know which bot actually wanted to raise. No human stands a chance, not even a pro. The trick is actually not winning too hard, because if the humans correctly feel that they're just getting destroyed almost every hand they'll quit and you'll stop making money from them. You end up having to nerf your own bots to let people win some hands.

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u/HopeOfTheLight 10h ago

Just 1 bot with perfect probability calculations? Possibly a small edge.

No. Maybe a "probabilities bot" would have a small edge. But poker is basically solved and a bot playing perfect GTO will have an insane edge.

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u/JHMfield 10h ago

No-limit Hold'em Poker can't ever be fully solved due to imperfect information and the ability to all in. You can play the odds but that's not enough. Human factor remains and unless you gather like tens of thousands of hands worth of individual player data, you can't get a sufficiently accurate read on them.

Bots will surely have an edge especially when colluding IF they have player data, but without it, knowing the odds alone won't help them beat any veterans who can do all the same math in their head no issue,

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u/HopeOfTheLight 10h ago

Please stop talking. Go read up on GTO.

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u/plaxitone 8h ago

Solved is solved. Like how checkers is solved. Poker cannot be solved. I read up on this GTO and it’s a strategy that if played perfectly means the player will break even at least. That’s not really the same.

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u/HopeOfTheLight 8h ago

How is it not the same?

Checkers is also a draw if both players play the "solved" strategy.

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u/plaxitone 8h ago

Because there’s an exact strategy that solves the game. Whereas (based on the few articles I read) GTO is about balancing your bets and bluffs, etc. Keeping your opponent guessing and not making huge bets. More like a strategy that if played correctly will keep you from losing. But checkers is solved solved, like do this exact move and you will win. The very nature of poker getting random cards and playing with multiple players means that there’s not a finite solution. Similar but different.

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u/Linenoise77 10h ago

Yeah, the big thing is these aren't going to keep someone from just getting lucky.....

But they completely fuck with someone who actually understands the game and is trying to play it well, which you are already at a disadvantage at playing online. The best thing you can do is try and get a vibe of a players betting mechanics, and multiple bots\people collaborating allows that to be masked.

So then it just starts looking like everyone is lucky. Fuck it wouldn't surprise me if these things let you take some hands in rooms they have managed to deeply penetrate to keep you on a hook.

None of this is to say gambling, even in ideal circumstances, isn't stupid. You WILL lose money eventually even in a "honest" place. Its math. But it can be fun and entertaining as hell, and that can be money well spent, when you have money to spend for fun and entertainment.

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u/MrHyperion_ 10h ago

Playing against bots isn't real poker and if you do it for money you deserve to lose it.

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u/Notorious-ly 10h ago edited 9h ago

People aren't knowingly playing poker against bots for money. They believe they're playing against real people, but there's no way to actually know for sure.

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u/Different_Wolf_764 8h ago

Worse yet, the people running the services don't really care. They make their rake no matter who or what is at the table.

Now, they care a lot about the perception of it being fair but not so much about the reality. I mean, assuming it isn't the services that are running the bots themselves of course.

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u/Notorious-ly 8h ago

Agreed, they don't care and I fully believe they're in on it somehow. I've played some online poker, and I feel like it's damn near impossible to consistently win money on it unless you play absolutely perfectly 100% of the time. Even if I disregard the possibility of colluding bots, it seems like I have the second best hand 90% of the time. I've never been beaten by so many better full houses, flushes, or quads in real-life poker at such a consistent rate.

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u/AngryT-Rex 7h ago

What you describe is exactly the behavior you'd expect from bots working together. They have a better-than-typical knowledge of what cards are in other hands, and therefore a better knowledge of what could be in your hand and what could be in the river. So they'll get "lucky" a lot more often than normal players.