(Hated)changing somenthing to be more "progressive" ends up being a bad thing

[u/Morr4Seiya]

Now to be clear,i am not one of these "anti-woke" losers that complain some people exist,and i am also not the type to complain about changing somenthing in a new version or adaptation,however there are cases where it did ended up being a bad idea.

-In the anime of Cowboy Bebop there is the character Gren,despite being short lived the character is very memorable specially thanks to his tragic story.Basically his story was that he was a soldier from the titan war who was a great friend with Vicious(the main bad guy)after the war he was emprisioned thanks to Vicious who testified against him and he was forced to take a experimental drug that caused him hormonal problems,giving him a feminine appearence and even breasts.

In the Netflix live action,for some reasons they decided Gren was going to be non-binary,which wouldn't be a problem(some people believe he was gay in the anime)if it wasn't for the fact that they also removed all the nuances and complexities that made the character memorable and interesting,instead of a tragic war veteran that was betrayed and had his body changed against his will,Gren is just kinda there.

-The original Rugrats cartoon had the couple Betty and Howard,Betty was a big and masculine woman while Howard was a smaller and nervous man,it was a genuine interesting relationship that stood out from the other couples who were the standard straight couple.

In the new series however they replaced Howard with a woman named Trish,two things,first off why?What was the problem with having a woman being the stronger in a straight relationship?Second why does Hollywood seem to think that every tomboy or masculine woman is a lesbian?

Overall not the worst thing but it is jarring that they had a gender reverse roled that was progressive and decided that wasn't enough.

-Oh man,this one pisses me off the most so i am gonna have to break it down

So back in the late 80s and 90s there was this anime called Saint Seiya also knows as Knights of the zodiac,it tells the story of knights who fight for the Goddess Athena to protect earth,being divided in the golden,silver and bronze knights,the anime was a huge hit in latin america and Europe and while it floped in the US it still has a loyal fanbase.

Being a fan myself i can't recommend it enough,now granted the story does have a fair share of flaws,and that's because the author was honestly just making stuff up as he went along(also a lot of side characters are poorly used or even forgotten about)still it is a great story you should check out

But then a couple of years back Netflix got the rights and decided to a 3D reboot,in this reboot they decided to make the story more "american" to try to bring more american viewers,now i could go on and on a big rant about how that was a bad idea and the execution was so terrible that it made me want to strangle someone but this post is about one specific change.

So Saint Seiya has five main characters,those are Pegasus Seiya,Dragon Shiryu,Cygnus Hyoga,Phoenix Ikki and finally Andromeda Shun.

While the other four characters were the standard masculine and brute male characters who were always ready to throw punches,Shun was smaller,more sensitive and even feminine looking,a pacifist who didn't liked fighting,but don't mistake that for weakness because Shun was loyal to his friends and was extremely powerful.

Then Netflix decided to change Shun into a girl named Shaun.

So wait,you have a male character who goes against every male stereotype and you turn him into just another generic female character?

When asked about it,the showrunner Eugene Son said he made that change because there was no girl in the group and having a all boys group wouldn't be acceptable nowadays

First off that's not true because Athena was also part of the main cast,yeah she wasn't the fighting type but she still helped quite a lot in the story even saving the knights on several occasions,second if you wanted to add a girl to the main group why not use Marin or Shaina?Hell,if you were going to change the story anyway why not turn Seiya sister into a knight?

Thankfully this monstrosity was cancelled(so much for trying to bring more fans)

[u/IWannaManatee]

Also of note a few I recall:

• Harry suspects he's evil and dislikes him based on his appearence
• Is often looking to teach defense against the Dark Arts but is denied the position
• He's Neville's greatest fear
• Harry accuses and/or suspects him to be behind of anything that goes awry at Hogwarts

I'm more amused and excited than anything on how they're gonna juggle being 100% follow the books or as true to them, while keeping the racist optics in check that having Snape be a black character entails.

It's gonna be a doozy and I'm all here for this shitshow of a fiasco.

[u/amazing_asstronaut → u/IWannaManatee]

It's legit like something dreamed up in a 4chan greentext. My goodness when's this show coming out because that has to be one big controversy after another when it's finally out.

Unless they fucking change everything about the characters anyway to make it more "modern".

[u/Eskimobill1919 → u/IWannaManatee]

Harry is suspects Snape is evil cause his scar hurt the first time he saw him and Snape had been a constant asshole toward every student. Neville fears him because Snape essentially bullies him.

Like, it’s not racist optics to think the worst of the worst person you know.

[u/chicken_dinner_87 → u/Eskimobill1919]

Yeah Snape is pretty much a dick to him from the first Potions lesson and really everyone who isn't from Slytherin.

White or black it makes no difference but the tree hanging thing is hilariously way more sus now for James and the Marauders.

[u/naskalit → u/chicken_dinner_87]

The tree hanging thing doesn't happen in the books tho. People have just made it up to be more outraged about the casting

[u/R0viee → u/naskalit]

It doesn’t even happen in the film. He’s levitated and held upside down while they’re all standing NEAR a tree, but at no point is he actually hung FROM a tree

[u/bouquetofashes → u/naskalit]

Also like... By the time you get to that scene of Snape's Worst Memory you have a ton of context for why James hates him, and it's incredibly apparent that it's because Snape is an asshole.

[u/naskalit → u/bouquetofashes]

When I read the books the impression I got was that it's meant to be a big reveal and a huge character building plot point for Harry to realise that James in fact was a privileged asshole bully who didn't actually have any good reason to hate Snape at all aside from wanting to pick on the weak, and that Sirius and Remus are very biased and try to downplay their antics because they want Harry to think well of James. 

It's an overarching theme of the series that mainly good people can sometimes behave terribly and mainly bad people can sometimes do good things, or that people can change their course - that people have good and bad sides and flaws, and choosing the right thing is sometimes quite hard.

I think it's interesting how many fans seem to have completely missed the point about James and the Marauders having legit been Malfoy tier assholes in their youth. Lily even explicitly calls the Marauders out as being "just as bad" as the future Death Eaters when it comes to harassing other students. 

I think that the new optics of a group of rich white kids ganging up on a poor black kid may help strengthen that narrative

[u/poprostumort → u/Eskimobill1919]

Like, it’s not racist optics to think the worst of the worst person you know.

Sure, but pair that with the fact that Paapa is the only black person cast as teacher (from what we know) which makes only black teacher the asshole - and you are explicitly asking for those racist undertones.

If they would at least get another black person as one of the teachers, someone who is not seen as an asshole (Poppy Pomfrey, Pomona Sprout or Madam Hooch would be a great pick) to have a positive black character, it would allow to have a foundation for "It's not the skin color, it's the behavior of this particular person". But without it will be a problem - and I can see how racist would co-opt the narrative.

Which is especially fuckin' jarring when this is an adaptation for new generations - who did not watch OG movies. And they will see a bunch of white good guys and one black asshole. That is terrible choice.

[u/Grosbie → u/poprostumort]

I see a female black professor in the trailer.

[u/poprostumort → u/Grosbie]

Great, that could be prof. Aurora Sinistra, as she was black in OG movies - so hopefully they will give her more screentime than in the movies times to avoid "only black teacher is an asshole".

[u/drunkcowofdeath → u/Eskimobill1919]

So sick of this conversation. All these people who think they are fighting racism while dictating what kind of roles it is okay for black people to play without bumping against their stereotypes.

[u/Leisure_suit_guy → u/Eskimobill1919]

Like, it’s not racist optics to think the worst of the worst person you know.

Sure, but him being black means he could never be "the worst of the worst person you know" in 2026.

I'm not saying that all black characters are 100% positive now, but if a black character has some negative traits it's always because of some injustice he suffered, so yes, it will definitely look racist.

[u/Eskimobill1919 → u/Leisure_suit_guy]

That’s a dumb thing to say. A character can be black and be a shitty person

[u/Leisure_suit_guy → u/Eskimobill1919]

Don't tell me, I know it's dumb. Tell it to modern writers.

[u/k9moonmoon → u/IWannaManatee]

Snape is often described as having greasy hair

[u/herman-the-vermin → u/IWannaManatee]

All these reasons are explained by Snape being an absolute bully to 11 year olds

[u/IWannaManatee → u/herman-the-vermin]

So a grown black man harrassing a bunch of children? That ought to make it better?

[u/herman-the-vermin → u/IWannaManatee]

I’m just saying, harry had every reason to distrust Snape. Snape hated harry for no reason from the get go

[u/Paggy_person → u/IWannaManatee]

Neville when he sees Snape :

[u/WeevilWeedWizard → u/IWannaManatee]

Okay but he's Nevilles greatest fear because he's a piece of shit who relentlessly, viciously bullies him. It has nothing to do with his skin colors. This is frankly a non-issue, people are just looking for reasons to be mad lol.

[u/someone-else3583 → u/IWannaManatee]

i’m excited to see neville’s greatest fear being a black man in a dress

[u/Dealiner → u/IWannaManatee]

If you ignore most of the context then yes.

Harry suspects he's evil and dislikes him based on his appearence.

Harry had a lot of reasons to suspect and dislike Snape - his scar hurt when Snape looked at him, Snape was an asshole to everyone, he was bitten by Fluffy, it looked like he tried to kill Harry during the match.

Is often looking to teach defense against the Dark Arts but is denied the position

How exactly does that mean anything else when he's black?

He's Neville's greatest fear

Because he's an abusive asshole.

Harry accuses and/or suspects him to be behind of anything that goes awry at Hogwarts

Only in the first book, and again, he had a lot of reasons.

[u/AsstacularSpiderman → u/Dealiner]

Yeah people keep trying to make this about race but the reality is everyone was put off by Snape because he's a neckbeard loser, regardless of what color he is.

[u/Bamorvia → u/AsstacularSpiderman]

I think no one is saying that suddenly, retroactively, Harry Potter from the books is a racist (against anyone but goblins and house elves at least), they're saying the optics of the TV show are gonna be awkward as hell. Four white kids hang a Black kid from a tree? There's not enough missing context in the world to make that not gross. And the TV show marketing is all about how it will be just like the books. 

[u/EchoesofIllyria → u/Bamorvia]

Except you’re still basing this “grossness” on falsehoods.

At no point in the books is Snape hanged from a tree. This has already been explained multiple times throughout this thread.

This is the point being made. People are making stuff up and spreading it to manufacture outrage over something that should be a non-issue.

[u/EchoesofIllyria → u/[deleted]]

He’s hoisted by the ankle. And it’s only next to a tree in the films, not the books. It’s nothing like a lynching and you’d have to be actively seeking a reason to be offended to think that it is - and you’d be trivialising ACTUAL lynchings in the process

It’s clear you haven’t actually read the books and are just parroting bollocks you’ve seen on reddit/elsewhere.

[u/AsstacularSpiderman → u/Bamorvia]

I mean yeah James and his friends were certified shitheads in school, the books don't shy away from the fact that Harry's father was little more than a bully as a teen and Lily had to put quite a bit of work into making him the man he ended up being.

A couple of white preppy British boys, serveral of which are confirmed to be from money and status, being bigots is the least shocking thing.

[u/Bamorvia → u/AsstacularSpiderman]

Again, this isn't about the author's intent in the books though. The TV show can't retroactively change how things are portrayed in the books. The point is that is it a wild choice to knowingly opt into for a major adaptation on a popular channel/platform with a famous IP. The showrunners knew all this and cast that one character as a Black man. 

[u/AsstacularSpiderman → u/Bamorvia]

If you want the same thing over and over just read the books then, absolutely no one is forcing you to watch this then lol.

[u/CivilChampionship810 → u/IWannaManatee]

4 more racist hoops here