Warning, this is going to be kind of a long post, I will try to keep it sweet, but I have a bad habit of making long posts as well.

There is a popular theory that Kreia is Arren Kae, the long-lost, thought to be deceased mother of the Handmaiden Brianna. I have seen YouTube videos, playthroughs, and that old "Let's Play" archive, and honestly? I think like everyone else, this theory has a lot of weight to it. It fits, makes a whole lot more sense than Kreia being that Entity demon from SWTOR, (this one raises a lot of condradictions), and is well thought and layed out.

However, from my observation, there are indeed reasons to still believe that Kreia could POSSIBLY NOT be Arren Kae, and why it remains a theory and is not fully a "confirmed but not said out loud" fact. Let's break down the evidences the theory lays out, and bring in some potential counter arguments.

1: Believe it or not, but Arren Kae was never mentioned in game or any other official source that she was a Jedi historian. All of the dialogue that mentions Kae never made that connection. Kreia was mentioned as a Jedi Historian, but not Kae, who was only described as a "Jedi Master".

2: Kavar saying "I thought you died in the Mandalorian Wars" to Kreia could be taken as evidence, and it can honestly go either way. However, there is potential for Kreia to still not be Kae even with this quote in mind. You see, many Jedi joined Revan in the Mandalorian Wars, and Revan welcomed Kae. Kreia got exiled from the Jedi Order for Revan's fall and corruption, meaning this was right as the Mandalorian Wars were ending or had already ended. Sure, Kae could have joined Revan late in the war, but given the cirumstance of Kreia it gets murky.

Also, just because Kreia was thought to have died in the Mandalorian Wars does not mean she joined Revan. It could go either way to be honest. This leads us to my next point.

3: Many people pointed out that Kae was described as Revan's "first and last master" and that Kreia was described the same. That is...kind of not true. For Kreia, it is for sure true. She says "Yes, he came to me, both before, and after", and Mical the Disciple says that "Revan returned to his original master" for advice in the Mandalorian Wars.

But Kae? Kae was never truly mentioned as Revan's first and last teacher. Let's look at Mical's quotes that mention Kae: "Revan had many masters, Zhar, Dorak, Master Kae before Kae left for the wars. It is said that he returned to his first master at the end of his training, in order to learn how he might best leave the Order." Now, this quote doesn't say "Kae was the last master Revan returned to" but just that he trained under Kae before she left for the wars, which could refer to any point in time really. We know Revan trained under so many various Jedi Masters, even more than Mical mentioned.

Also, note how Mical says "It was said he returned to his first master", and doesn't mention Kae in context at all. He is referring to Kreia. Also, when Mical says "it was said he returned to his firs master", take a note on the part where he says "it was said", meaning Mical got this information from somewhere else. All of the other dialogue with Mical has him say the same thing, just reworded differently, but I can assure you that he never makes a link that Kae was Revan's first teacher, just that he trained under her, and he talks of Revan's "first and final teacher" as if she was a different person, and Kreia messes with Mical's head to make him forget about her identity, but that doesn't automatically point to Kae, especially since Mical keeps talking about Kae.

4: There is the point out that Arren Kae's body was never recovered. This doesn't strike to me automatically as in "Arren Kae's body is missing and we cannot find her". Let's look at the source of this, the Handmaiden's quote: "She died in the battle that shattered Malachor V, and her body was never recovered." Brianna is saying this in the context of how she never missed or saw her mother, because she died in that battle. This quote doesn't say that "Kae's body is missing", but rather it could not be recovered. If Kae died at the Battle of Malachor V, it would have crushed her or something like that, and given the Mass Shadow Generator's devastation, it is obvious that her body would not be recovered, because everyone who died there won't be picked up by the Jedi and get a funeral. Brianna is just pointing out that because she died at Malachor V, she couldn't see her mother post-mortem.

5: Kreia was exiled for being blamed on the teachings of Revan, Kae was exiled for the shame of her birth.

These are the points I layed out that seem to be misinterpreteded. But there a a few things we need to point out that is in favor of the theory still, the REAL points:

1: Atris says "Kreia? Oh, that is not her name". Now, Atris could theoratically just be referring to Kreia's Sith identity as Darth Traya, but this is worth holding up still that Atris knows that "Kreia" is not her real name.

2: Kreia talks of battle like Brianna does, similar philosophy.

3: I got to admit, Kreia DOES look kinda like Kae.

4: Kreia seems to have a personal grudge against Brianna. It could be just because of Atris's involvement, but still....

5: Kreia pausing and talking highly of Kae, like "she is...said to be beautiful", is a rare thing for Kreia to say, especially pausing like that.

Now, let's go to the real-world meta context. Chris Avellone said sometime ago: "Can't comment, but good catch" in response to this theory. This comment could be taken either way, as Chris has used this before for other games where he intends it originally not to be the case, but it is good that people are making their own theories. However, I think there WAS or at least IS intentional involvement behind the scenes. In a recent podcast interview with Avellone and YouTuber/Podcaster PembridgeTV, he says this:

"You got the beat right", but he also points out he is not going to answer that question in the hopes of making another Star Wars game. Now, I think this is important. Personally, I think Avellone has a different intention for Kae and Kreia's connection that is not them being the same person. Why would Avellone keep it a mystery and not answer even if people made cohesive well constructed theories? There is really no more to learn of Kreia or Kae if they are the same, thus, this leads me to this conclusion:

Arren Kae and Kreia are not the same character or person, but from Avellone's intention, they are heavily connected somehow in the lore. Honestly, I have no answer, because what Avellone is thinking is for him alone until he decides to reveal it whenever that happens, but I can come up with a few ideas that expand on and inver the Kreia and Kae theory that does not make them the same character. Here is my contending theory:

Kreia is either Arren Kae's sister, or she is Kae's mother. Honestly, I personally like the idea that Kreia is Kae's mother, but sister could work as well. This adds a whole new layer and dimension to Kreia's connection with her. Kreia pausing and talking highly of Arren Kae, calling her "beautiful" is a sign of her affection for her long deceased daughter, (or sister).

If we go by this theory, Kreia had a battle philosophy that coincidently matched the Echani, and Arren Kae agreed with Kreia, (if she is Kreia's sister), or learned from Kreia, (if she is Kreia's daughter), about battle. Regardless if Kreia or Kae were sisters or mother & daughter, the result is the same: Kreia had a deep loving relationship with her daughter/sister, and when Arren had an affair with Yusanis the Echani general, and followed Revan to war, Kreia automatically followed her daughter or sister's footsteps to war. Arren fell in love with Yusanis because the Echani arts and philosophy matched her philosophy that she learned from Kreia, her mother, (or sister, if you prefer that).

The Mandalorian Wars took devastating consequences, as Arren got exiled for the shame of her birth. In the KOTOR Era, Jedi could actually have families, it was frowned upon but still allowed. In the KOTOR comics, Lucien Draay's mother, Kyndra Draay, married a non Jedi who became a Jedi, and Lucien's marternal grandfather, a Miraluka Jedi named Noab Hulis, married and had quite a bit of children, Kyndra being one of them.

Kreia could be another exception. Kreia probably had a normal affair or married, and had Arren, (if she is Arren's mother), and so this wouldn't be much of a problem. The problem with Arren is that she bore an illegitmate child with Yusanis, an Echani general who was already married and had children with his official wife, and Kae caused Yusanis to betray his oath, and this would be a big no no to the Jedi Council, especially since Kae may have been hiding it for some time.

If Kreia was Arren's mother or sister, she either would have initially accepted it, or from the beginning, she too was concerned and maybe even angry at this situation as well.

Regardless, Kreia was exiled by the Jedi Order for many of her students were fallen or rejected the Jedi ways. Revan is the most notable example, but if Arren is the daughter of Kreia, it stands to reason that Arren Kae making Yusanis betray his oaths and fight alongside her, and following Revan to war, may also have been a major factor for Kreia's exile.

After Aren Kae died in the Mandalorian Wars, this made a profound impact on her mother or sister "Kreia", and it lead her down a path of bitterness that in the end culminated in her transformation into Darth Traya.

In this context theory, this adds a different reason as to why Kreia hates Brianna: She is the illegitmate child of her daughter or sister, and the very fact Brianna was born from an affair with Yusanis lead to a chain reaction: Arren was exiled and followed Revan to war after the shame of her birth was revealed, and Kreia had to be punished as well for slightly different reasons, and she followed Arren to war and Kae died, which literally took everything away from Kreia, her valued and loved daughter, (or sister). Thus, Brianna is a bitter reminder to Kreia of the chain of events that lead to Arren's death from Brianna's birth, and it pains and makes Kreia resentful and angry.

Thus, Brianna in this scenario is not Kreia's daughter, but rather her niece or granddaughter that reminds Kreia of the sequential events that lead to Arren's death.

Yes, it is kind of weird that Revan would train under his first teacher's daughter, but it is not entirely out of the realm of impossibility. My theory also assumes still that "Kreia" is not her real name, and that her real name was with the surname Kae and an unknown first name.

TLDR: Despite what evidences would have you believe, Arren Kae was never described as a historian, just a Jedi Master, and she was never stated to be Revan's "first and last teacher", just that she was one of the many teachers Revan had. Kae's body was never recovered because it was destroyed at Malachor V.

I then explained a theory above that if Avellone wants to subvert or invert the theory, he could theoratically make Arren Kae Kreia's daughter or sister. Why would Avellone hold back and want to explore Kreia's connection with Arren Kae in a Star Wars game if theories have well constructed already on how this could work

Anyways, I could be tripping, and totally be making shit up, but it is an interesting thought experiment for me. Now, there is still a chance that Arren Kae could be Kreia, but I would like to hear your thoughts about this. Personally, in realistic terms, based off of the evidence above, it is a 50/50. (Also, sorry for bringing up ANOTHER Arren Kae and Kreia post, I know that there wree discussions on this in the past, but I felt like I wanted to explore this theory with new fresh outlook).

Just finished korribans star map, beat the leviathan, killed Saul to announce im... me. Bastille dips leaving me and Carth. I went to the map section in the ebony hawk and i am missing a spot to the unknown world? What did miss? How fix?